A non-Doctor's guess at Demen's injury: Torn UCL

A non-Doctor's guess at Demen's injury: Torn UCL

Submitted by JeepinBen on April 2nd, 2012 at 12:22 PM

So I'm not a doctor, I'm just going off of personal experience and the picture that Kenny tweeted.


Based on the above picture (Thumb in a cast, other fingers free) and the fact that he'll be out 4-6 weeks I'm guessing Kenny has either a chip fracture at the base of his thumb or an Ulnar Collateral Ligament Tear. An x-ray would show which one it is. I have had 2 partial tears of my UCL and they hurt. (There is an Ulnar Cruciate Ligament, that's in the elbow and baseball players mess it up a lot). This injury is often referred to as skier's thumb because the method of injury happens a lot to skiers. It happens a lot to football players too. My first injury was when I tackled someone. Look at the back of your hand and pull your thumb down and towards you - that's the motion that the UCL prevents and how you can damage it. If Kenny slightly missed on a tackle - his thumb connecting with a shoulder or something but the rest of his hand didnt - and his thumb got bent back, that would lead to a UCL tear (my guess).

Depending on severity and if he needs surgery 4-6 weeks is a typical recovery. It's a joint that is easily taped and depending on his repair/recovery he should have no lasting effects. I had partial tears (no surgery or repair) and wasn't diagnosed for about 8 weeks after the first injury. My only medical restriction is that I'm not allowed to put my thumb in a bowling ball - all other sports and stuff are fine. Kenny's at Michigan, was diagnosed on sight and has some of the best medical care in the world. I'm sure he'll be fine come the fall. Here's wishing him the best during his recovery.

Tough break for Kenny Demens [ED-April Fools Day Sucks]

Tough break for Kenny Demens [ED-April Fools Day Sucks]

Submitted by bluesouth on April 1st, 2012 at 12:16 AM

his tweet says it all

Kenny Demens@kdemens25

Out for the season with a hand injury. Hope all uofm still support the maize & blue. http://pic.twitter.com/WFX8poQm


View photoHide photo

[ED:BISB - No insider information, but it was posted at like 12:10 a.m. on April 1st. Unless additional confirmation comes, everyone can come back off the ledge.

Also, expect more pranks. At some point the words "Denard" and either "broken," "torn," or "arrested" will be used together. GIANT GRAINS OF SALT PLEASE.]

Denard Wins Team MVP (Winners of Other Team Awards Inside)

Denard Wins Team MVP (Winners of Other Team Awards Inside)

Submitted by hart20 on December 12th, 2011 at 11:00 PM

The team awards were handed out tonight and I know you're all probably shocked but Denard won the Bo Schembechler Most Valuable Player of the Year Award for the second year in a row.

Other winners:

Dr. Arthur D. Robinson Scholarship Award (Leading Senior Scholar): Will Heininger

Hugh R. Rader Memorial Award (Top Offensive Lineman): David Molk

Roger Zakoff Award (Best LB): Kenny Demens

 Robert P. Ufer Bequest (Senior who has demonstrated the most enthusiasm and love for Michigan): Split between Ryan Van Bergen and Kevin Koger

Richard Katcher Award (Best DL): Mike Martin


I just want to give another shout out to the Senior class who dealt with so much and fought through it all. This team wouldn't be where it is today if it wasn't for those guys. They're true Michigan Men.




TT: Mattison vs. GERG Cage Match

TT: Mattison vs. GERG Cage Match

Submitted by maizedandconfused on September 13th, 2011 at 5:07 PM


Tackling Technique: 2011 vs. 2010

Greg Mattison vs. GERG. Cage Match.

It has been the opinion of many that the defensive woes were a perfect storm of inexperience, tweener athletes and GERG.. with the resulting picture of our defense against a B10 offense resembling something like this.

The underlying problem last year was that we couldn’t tackle for shit.

While scheme was a huge factor, even when we did end up in the right spots we had severe issues bringing down the ball carrier.  Enter Greg Mattison.

This off-season there was interview after interview that stressed fundamentals and technique, and nothing is more fundamental or technical on defense than tackling. It is the quintessential ability that a defense is trying to incorporate, ending up in the right spot and smashing the ball carrier to pieces.

Good Tackles look like this:

<iframe width="560" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/KsG5qZsORLM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

And Bad Tackles with poor form look like this:

<iframe width="560" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/jallAF8hjO0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The basic analysis follows these formul

  • Tackling Efficiency = (Made tackles – Missed Tackles) / (Bad Form Tackles + 1)
  • Bad form tackles account for terrible form (bad angles, too high, getting shook etc)

Tackling % =  Made tackles  / Made + Missed

Chart? Chart.

Tackling Efficiency  -         2010:Blue         WMU: Maize    ND: Green

Tackling Percentage  -     2010:Blue         WMU: Maize    ND: Green


Tackling Percentage is up for almost every player from last year through the first 2 games this year. That indicates to me that they are being taught better technique. There is the factor that some of these guys had a year in the weight room, but that alone is not the only indicator of success (See Barwis Wolves)

While this is a limited data set, this seems to suggest that we are getting better at tackling AS A TEAM. Decreases in Tackling Efficiency by some of the bigger names are accountable by there being a relative spreading around of tackling.

-          This is not to suggest that our defense is not essentially anchored by Kovacs in the secondary, Demens in the backers and RVB/MM up front. We are.

-          Kovacs is a manchild werebeast. He is easily the most accountable player on the field, always in the right spot to make a play. If he had the athleticism of Marvin Robinson he might be one of the best safeties I have ever seen wear the uniform at this point in his career.

-          Demens is a sure tackler, but it seems he is lacking in making tackles for loss. Don’t take this as criticism, as his role is to stop the ball carrier after 1-2 yds consistently between the OTs, not make occasional TFL’s.

-          Craig Roh. I think people are being too harsh here. He showed some flashes on plays, and I am going to assume that the decreased production is due to illness.  It also seems that Roh is best suited to be at the SDE slot, as trying to keep contain all by himself on the WDE side is testing both his play-reading ability and athleticism.  When he is allowed to pin his ears back is when he is best.

-          Jake Ryan is your Freshman breakout contributor. No real shocker here, but this kid is everywhere. Cannot wait to see his development in the future.

-          Certain diaries have suggested switching Roh to TE, that is ridiculous. Brink and Heininger make very little contribution to the position.

-          Morgan makes decent reads but is not physically ready to play at this level yet.

-          I am not as excited about Hawthorne as some, however he does seem to blitz with absolutely no regard for blockers or his well-being. Think non-heat seeking missle. If he learns to blitz this way and then get under control once past blockers he will be a special player. Also, he is solid in coverage.

-          Jibreel Black is a playmaker, and it seems that more and more he resembles the 55 of yesteryear.

-          While I cannot praise the pass coverage ability of Marvin Robinson, I am pleasantly surprised by his change in technique. He has abandoned his “DESTROY” technique, and instead looks for big hits when he can but more often than not wraps up.

-          It seems that BWC seemed to improve as the game went on against ND. I hope that this trend transitions into the proverbial light turning on, as he made some good stands against double teams on short yardage runs. However, he is still a liability on pass rush.

-          I would like to see Blake Countess get some PT opposite Avery in the coming 2 weeks, because JT Floyd is not a reliable answer for us on fast and physical WRs. He cannot press on the line, and this hurts him immensely.

-          Mattison: All in all, I am more impressed this year with our defense. While there are definitely things to correct, we are not missing 2 or 3 tackles on the same play like last year. I think this is the greatest effect on coaching change that is easily apparent. Secondly, players are FLYING to the ball. Gone are the one on ones that result in a shook player and then a 5 yard gain. Finally, while sacks have been hard to come by, there is no question the opposing QB is feeling more pressure.


LB Scrape/Contain and moar DEMENS!!!

LB Scrape/Contain and moar DEMENS!!!

Submitted by tasnyder01 on November 7th, 2010 at 4:42 PM

Table of contents:

I.  Basics of scraping/link to Brian’s thoughts
II. Mouton
III. Demens’ Pass D.
IV.  Demens scraping
V. Final thoughts


[this is for people who might not know what scraping is or want another opinion.  If you understand scraping/contain feel free to move on]
On How UM has lost contain:
On how this can be fixed:

    For the second one notice how Kovaks tells Floyd to get up to the LOS and Floyd says “Yeah, I’m gonna F*#K this play up.”  He does, because he takes the outside shoulder of the lead blocker.  However, that is not enough; Demens also scrapes to the play.  In the first play Mouton doesn’t contain (even though Demens scrapes) and it gets a…TD.  [For a more full discussion see the links above.  Many much smarter people than I have well thought out ideas there.]


My belief is that a large amount of us here think Mouton might have issues playing with Demens because he had to play to tackle instead of play his assignment when Obi was in.  Well, playing to tackle instead of your assignment sure sounds like someone who will lose contain.   Also, see this. So, here's that nice little chart:

First Half: Mouton v. Iowa Run
What Who When Notes
Loss of Contain Mouton 2:25 Picture paged
Ditto Mouton 1:40 Cut-back
Scrape Mouton 2:15 Failed scrape
  • This is only one half, but it should become clear that Mouton has had trouble holding contain.  I’m sure someone could do a much better analysis on this, and I would applaud any such investigation.  However, with the data at hand, we’ve shown that Mouton is not that good at holding contain.  The small # of bad contain plays wouldn’t be an issue, except that Iowa got 35 yards on them! [after looking back, that’s not outstanding, but it is a first down each time.
  • This failure to contain is not a “who is around me” problem.  It is a fundamentals problem.  It doesn’t matter who is around you, you still need to know your fundamentals.  If Ray Lewis were playing Mouton would still need to tackle.  This is no different.  Contain is just something you need to do, regardless of who is around you.
  • There might be other issues about him playing with Demens instead of Obi, but I just can’t see any.  What most people have been saying is that Mouton plays to make the tackle instead of doing his job.  That sounds a lot like missing your contain assignment to me.

III. Demens Pass D:

Because this seemed to be the issue for Demens, I figured I’d make the anaylsis on his coverage.  This will be a combination of 2 things: Brian’s UFR on Iowa, and my Iowa  “Demens UFR”.


+1 for pass break-up. (4th play)
+.5 (12th play)
(no +/- but on this picture paged play Brian gives Demens credit)
+.5 (18th play)
+.5 (25th play)
-1 (38th play)
-1 (35th play)
+1 (37th play)
Total: +1.5  Not terribleWas this the thing that was holding him back?

My Iowa UFR:

+1 (4th play.  Blasts the receiver after the catch to break up the pass.)
+1 (The touchdown play at 3:05.  Knocks the TE down as Avery derps up.)
+1 (starts at 3:20.  Demens comes up on the bootleg.  Notices the RB blocking and gets on his horse.  Brian gave a +.5 but I believe that because Demens came in so fast, he knew exactly what his assignment was and played it fully.)
-1 (at 4:10).  Demens leaves his TE open, even tho the pass goes over his head.
-1 (at 6:39) Missed the RB/drop-down read coming out of the backfield late.
-1 (9:00) Bit on the PA.  He did this again on the next play, which was the same play-call.  I’m not sure if he’s just biting a lot or if it’s his job to do that?  Is this some new Defensive thing?
+1 (on that play where Avery missed the 3&8 tackle, which effectively ended the game) Demens was all over his guy when the pass happened.
Noticed that they put in Roh on a few downs at MLB.  I’m assuming this is to get more speed on the field against the pass.

+1 total.  Well, I'm more negative than Brian.  Told you.

Overall: nothing really bad here.  I don't believe this was what held him back.  He should be at least acceptable in pass D.  Dispell all rumors.


Based again, off of the multiple UFR from Iowa and previous games.
Iowa: +3 on scraping, although I’m a negative guy.
Penn State: +2 on scraping.

When I find a better way  to format, I’ll add in the plays too.  Still, this is at least decent, which is better than Obi was playing.  More analysis at bottom.


Demens is a good scraper.  Obi obviously wasn’t.  An upgrade in playing ability and potential for next year, when we will return a decent starter, instead of a player who would have had no experience.

Contain is a huge issue.  When Mouton lost contain he gave up a first down every time.  This is a momentum killer for a few, rather obvious reasons. 

  • 1.) It allows a first down on a third and ten draw.
  • 2.) it destroys team fatigue.
  • 3.) It just sucks.  Nuff said.

Can we fix this?  How long will GERG coach this and how long until it’s fixed?  I don’t know, but I’m sure the debate will continue.  Mouton and Obi were in the system for 3 years and they didn’t scrape/contain this year.  However, Demens is a RS Soph (3 years) and learned how to do it.  Contrary evidence=I don’t know.

What does this mean for next year? I don’t know.  Really.  It depends on the aforementioned “Can we fix this.”  I think we’ll be better because we’ll have Demens instead of Obi, but if Mouton outplayed the other guys, doesn’t that mean we regress in that department.  I’ll assume that Cam Gordon (who might take Mouton’s old spot?) is faster than Mouton which might help, but I really just don’t know.  Debate away.

The other thing that I’d notice about Demens is that he bites a lot.  Those PA are going to kill him.  Just wait, OSU and Wiscy are going to have fun with this.  Let’s hope he gets better by that time.




Tackling Technique

Tackling Technique

Submitted by maizedandconfused on November 1st, 2010 at 9:01 AM

[FA Edit: Bumped ahead of coaching kerfluffle due to value.]

So for the past few weeks, we all have noticed the abysmal performances by our defense. There has been lots of ideas tossed around, from GERG being a Defensive Jenius to poor coaching to bad luck/loss of concentration on a few critical plays. One thing that has struck me has been the absolutely atrocious tackling, namely our inability to make one.

Time and again, we have the ball player wrapped up, and then 3 yards later they have picked up the 1st down on 3rd and forever. I thought it was about time to look at tackling, both who is making/missing them and why.

About the analysis:

1. I regarded made tackles as anytime a player made contact with the ballcarrier and that ballcarrier ended up down by contact using solid tackling technique. I did not look at technique of made tackles, as after 1/2 of tape review most of the tackles that were made were of good technique.

2. I classified OOB as out-of-bounds tackles, which could have been a solid tackle out of bounds or a bump out (couldn't find a reasonable way to quantify the difference so they are tackles, but not quite).

3. I designated missed tackles as failing to make a tackle in space, taking an extremely bad angle on a tackle that should have been made, or simply just getting the hit but not bringing down the ballcarrier.

4. Bad Form takes into account any missed tackle that used any of the following:

  •        Head on the upfield side
  •        Arm/Jersey tackling
  •        Any hit at or above the numbers
  •        Getting "shook" in open field due to not breaking down or overpursuit.

The difference here is missed tackles in my mind sometimes come from being literally overpowered or stiff-armed, not a technique avenue. If the UM defender made the hit with the head on the right side and attempted to wrap up but the ballcarrier just slipped through, I counted this as a missed tackle only. 

I reviewed the "every defensive snap" from the MSU and Iowa games and the results are as follows:

MSU Total Plays 57 4 TDs  
Player Tackles OOB Missed Tackles Bad Form
Roh 3 0 2 1
Banks 1 0 2 2
Sagesse 0 0 1 1
Martin 6   1 1
RVB 1      
Demens 1      
Mouton 7.5   3 1
Gordon 4 4.5 1 6 4
Gordon 15 4.5   1 1
Rogers 0 1 2 2
Kovacs 4.5 1 2  
Ezeh 4 1 3 3
Floyd 7 3 3 2
Talbott 1.5   2 2
Black 0.5   1  
Totals 46 7 29 20

So. MSU only, we cant tackle at all. 

Iowa Total Plays 46 5TDs  


Made tackles OOB Missed Tackles Bad Form
Roh 1      
Banks 2.5 1 0  
Martin 1      
RVB 2 1    
Demens 5 2 1  
Mouton 4.5   4 3
Gordon 4 3   2 2
Gordon 15 1.5      
Rogers   1 1 1
Kovacs 7   1  
Ezeh 0.5   1 1
Floyd 4.5 2 4 3
Talbott 1      
Black     1  
Johnson 1      

Totals                  33                    7                    18                        11


  Plays Missed Tackles/Bad Form Missed Tackles/Play Missed Tackles by Bad Form/Play
MSU 57 29/20 0.51 0.35
Iowa 46 18/11 0.39 0.24
Total 103 47/31 0.46 0.30

For Comparison:

Versus our Offense:

  Tackles Missed/Bad Form Missed Tackle/PLay Missed Tackle from Bad Form/Play
MSU-D 48 11/4 0.23 0.08
Iowa D 66 15/8 0.23 0.12

The numbers in this case really demonstrate how bad we actually are at tackling, and that it is a technique thing.

Solid to great defenses, while they might miss tackles, don't do so using bad technique.

Upon watching again, specifically focusing on tackling, the difference between our D and a Big Ten D is that ours seems to lack that killer instict, getting the ballcarrier to the ground regardless. We don't attack downhill, and we consistently have the head of our tacklers on the wrong side to impede forward progress. This could also be a good reason that we haven't seen a ton of fumbles this year as well, as the most common cause of a fumble is a good ol' helmet on the ball.

While the issue might stem from second-guessing assignments and being a half-second late to the hole, the number of times we went high and behind the ballcarrier in these games its simply shocking. Technique is something you can coach, and something you can keep coaching week in and week out.

Um...more Demens thoughts. (Now with improved formatting!)

Um...more Demens thoughts. (Now with improved formatting!)

Submitted by tasnyder01 on October 24th, 2010 at 3:48 PM

Preface: I am not Brian.  I am not Magnus.  I am not “dear lord baby Jesus”.  But, and I say this with great happiness, I am not Matt Millen either.  Seriously tho, If you don’t like what I  say please tell me why and discuss rationally.  Thank you.  I will appreciate all the tips on how to not D*^P up. (read: “DERP up”)  Also, I am negative by nature.  I like Demens, but will overly criticize him because of Jinx paranoia/trying not to be a homer in analysis.

Thoughts on Demens:
I. Why he wasn’t playing early in the year:
“[I want to know if the attorney general] is preparing "criminal negligence" charges against Gerg and Co for playing Ezeh over Demens ?”
-In_Rod_I_Trust (no offense to you there, I actually thought this a funny way to sum most thoughts.  Neg me if you don’t like the reference.)
While quotes like the one above were funny, everyone who thought GERG was stupid for not playing Demens needs to see this link
That sums up everything very well; no need to say more.

II. Whether he will help Mouton (and the D as a whole) this year:
My idea for this thread was partially started here.  It’s an interesting thread.  To analyze I want to :

  • 1.) Take a UFR chart from all games and make a differential between Ezeh and Demens playing, and how well Mouton does with Demens in.  (Before I even do this I will note that it will most likely be inconclusive.)
  • 2.) Make a wild-ass assumption based on my thoughts on Demens.
  • 3.) Wonder if there is really any better way to figure this out before Demens 2nd start.

I racked up from the data that says: My prediction was right! Inconclusive after limited PT.  Mouton is a combined +4.5 with Demens in.  His overall standing is at around +40-50.  (My maths is bad, and I did it in Da Head.)  This states to me that we don’t have enough information.  However, we will still make predictions because that’s what bored fans do.  I applaud this.  I do this.  I like this.
Demens really should make this D better.  For those who said that Mouton would not do as well with a LB who actually played (read: will continue to over-run plays when unnecessary now that Demens is in) here's Da Responze:
     a.) Demens>Obi.  Defense with Demen>D with Obi
     b.) No chemistry issues.  Why would there be?
     c.)  If in doubt return to "a.)"
Still wondering.  Failing. Getting mad at failing.  Moving on.

III. His strengths and weaknesses:
As has been well quoted on here: He is a run stuffer and not a pass protector.  However, as per my Diary about his Iowa game and my Thread about his previous games’ PT, I believe I can shed more light on the subject.  (No, I haven’t been stalking him on face book or tweeter….but can anyone give me the link?)

  • 1.) He is WAY better than Obi on the run D.  He hits holes, can actually read the plays, and will tackle.  Oh, I almost forgot….he doesn’t get pancaked.  Listen to the commentators laugh at Obi.  Then *cackle with knowing glee* when you never have to see this crap again
  • 2.) From my perspective he bites a lot.  I only played HS, but our team never bit like him.  My data says he bit 8 times. This is based of my UFR and not Brian’s.  I am not sure how much the average man bites, but I would suspect that the young, run-stuffer is biting more than most.
  • 3.) He is slow when guarding WRs.  But who the hell isn’t?  Like we’re saying with the whole defense, give him time to figure this crap out.  BUT….I don’t like him in zone.  Either he’s bad at zone or I suck at analyzing.  Me:Brian comparison comes to mind.  

IV. How he (and the D will look next year):
Insert: The_Knowledge.  Not working?!?!?! WTF?  Ok, here’s my idea.  Just Kidding.  Oh, you’re hopes weren’t up?

V. My prediction for the rest of the year/WTF does this all mean:
Based on my assumptions I believe we will end up a top 90 team in overall D. (#90 is USC at 402 YPG.)  This includes that we went against 5 bad teams, and includes the “TURRIBLE” that is PSU.  It is also aware of Illinois’ “Ill” offense.  It is also aware of OSU’s decent offense.  (Oh, and Wiscy….I like whiskey.)  However, we let up 388 against Iowa’s mediocre offense.  Part of that was based on TOP (which we slightly won).  Part of the TOP was how our O was slowed down.  I think our O will be slowed down, and we will have more TOP.  I think that our D will play better because Demens is better than Obi.  These two points should be obvious.  I also think that PSU and Purdon’t will give us a stats boost.  Possibly we hold Illinois…I just don’t know enough about them.  For better or worse, I’m predicting we jump in to the top 90 over the latter half of the season.

Annarbor.com- Demens and BooBoo sued for $10,000 in back rent

Annarbor.com- Demens and BooBoo sued for $10,000 in back rent

Submitted by NorthSideBlueFan on October 22nd, 2010 at 6:40 AM


Ugh. I HOPE it is simply a misunderstanding. Ignore Lee's headline that add's an extra 0, as it is only $10k not $100k.

Not to be a rumor monger, but maybe this has something to do with the PT issue?

Demens Vs. Ezeh

Demens Vs. Ezeh

Submitted by tasnyder01 on October 19th, 2010 at 3:45 AM

There have been a lot of threads on this so I don't want to speculate.  All I want to do is show the statistical analysis to help elucidate arguments.

COACH RODRIGUEZ: I'm excited about Greg Robinson taking over the linebackers. I think he probably prefers that position since he's coached that the majority of his career, whether it's in college or the NFL.”
-Brian’s Media Day coverage. August 2nd.
What this is trying to explain is that GERG might actually be a decent LB coach.  No other justifications.  You either believe his credentials or don’t.  However, I think that given time, our LB play might actually be good.  The one I want to single out (especially because everyone’s been clamoring about this) is Demens.
Here is my comparison of Demens and Ezeh:
Kenny Demens now has 19 tackles.  Obi Ezeh: 39 (through 10/16, not sure if before or after the game). That's about 1/2 the tackles in about 1/6 or less the PT.

The UFR on Obi/Demens through 6 games this season:
*I might be wrong on Demens’ playing time.  I tried my best, but he might have snuck in on a few plays here or there, which I did not notice.
UConn: Ezeh: -3.5
    Demens: DNP
ND:    Ezeh: +3
    Demens: DNP
Umass: Ezeh: -8
    Demens: DNP
BGSU: Ezeh: +2
    Demens +1
    Demens: 6 plays at the end of the game from what I can tell
Indiana: Ezeh +3
    Demens +1
    From what I could tell Demens only plays goal line.
MSU: Ezeh: -4.5
    Demens: +1
    I believe only goal line again.
Total: Ezeh -8
    Demens: +3 in limited action.

This is post is more to give us some stats on how well he’s doing compared to Obi with which we can quantify our thoughts.  Analysis instead of intuition.  I hope this helps any and all arguments.