i like 'em both
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|27 min 55 sec ago||Because it's not a rivalry for Michigan||
and never hase been.
Rivalries aren't about a few wins in a row. Rivalries are about playing competitve games over decades. When I was a student MSU was a speed bump on the way to "the game". MSU has had a few runs, lately and in the sixties but they'd have to win what 30 games in a row to balance the scales?
MSU has a good team, and they have built the foundations of a good program, but can they maintain it for the next few dacades? Michigan is in a slump, but has proven over a span of more than a century that it can build and maintain a foundation for dominant football.
Odds are that Michigan will lose Saturday, but that outcome is far from certain. Even if Michigan loses, it has been rebuilding a foundation for dominance, and whether with Hoke or the next guy, will cash in on that discipline and reestablish a short term winning record to match the long term record. Not because MSU will receed or stumble, but because Michigan has structural advantages that. over the long haul, MSU can't match.
|2 days 21 hours ago||Probable concussion is a legitimate diagnosis||
regardless of what "other" (unamed) physicians indicated (link please). You see the thing here is that the physicians who actually examined Shane had to render a diagnosis that they were prepared to stand behind, not speculate on what they might have done in another circumstance. GIven how nebulous some concussion diagnosis can be, perhaps these other physicians would have rendered a "no concussion" diagnosis. You can't know, nor can they.
You understand that every aspect of this event is under review and that everyone involved knew that would be the case. No medical professional is going to "spin the truth a little" when they know that kind of medical review is coming. I understand it fails to fit your narrative, but either they rendered the best and most correct diagnosis they could or they did not, and they will be judged by their peers and eventually the rest of us based on what the review reveals.
The timeline of how the people involved were unable to get out a press release until 1:00 am will be reviewed as well in complete and mind numbing detail. If anyone misrepresented that timeline we'll all know. Need I point out that the people who participated in that process knew at the time they would be under intense scrutiny? How likely is it that they would lie?
So the bottom line is it doesn't matter what you bellieve or I believe. The truth will come out and we'll all know exactly what happened in the 60 or so hours after Shane got hit.
|3 days 41 min ago||Yet one of the complaints about Hoke||
quoted here from the father of an anonymous offensive lineman is that if they block poorly on Saturday Hoke workes them much harder on Sunday. Not exactly the technique of a "nice guy" sucking up to his players. I think you view Hoke through a lens that suits your narrative.
Mattison has told us twice that Hoke is "a very tough son of a gun", and we all know what he would have substituted for "gun" had he not been in a press conference. Of course the narrative here is that he is Hoke's "friend" and therefore is blind to the "truth". I have a number of close friendships I have made over the course of 40+ years in my profession. Some are fools, and some are well worth every bit of the respect I hold for them. I don't confuse my freindship with a fair assessment of their skills, especially since my business depends on separating the two. Yet we're supposed to believe that Mattison came to coach at Michigan with his "friend" despite the fact that Hoke is an incompetent buffoon. Sorry that fails the smell test from forty miles away.
Hoke's staff thinks he's a leader, his players think he is a leader, you have no insight into the internals of what that team is enduring. I suspect that you either fail to understand leadership or have gifted yourself with divine insight.
Until you walk on water, or change it to wine, I'll bet on the coaches and players.
|3 days 4 hours ago||No system is perfect||
There was a system in place when Shane got hit. The system failed because of edge conditions that were not allowed for. The lack of an "eye in the sky" meant that when several other sets of eyes missed the contact and Shane stood up immediately, the potential for a head trauma went unnoticed. During the analysis of the event I read that only two or three (unnamed) college programs had an "eye in the sky" in place. One can legitimately argue that Michigan probably should have had one, but it along with 110+ other programs did not. Now of course it does as will many other programs which have a case study that demonstrates the need.
Is the current system able to "prevent medical errors" 100% of the time. Of course not, it will catch more of them and specifically prevent a repeat of what happened with Shane.
Given Michigan's efforts to lead in developing concussion related injury data and guidelines, it is safe to assume that the original system was carefully thought through and designed. People, highly knowledgeable people, paid close attention, they simply didn't consider a particular set of events that could involve a player who was attempting to play through an earlier injury.
You can dump on how Michigan, and Brandon, handled communications post injury, but, unless you have an email where Brandon, over the objections of medical staff, declined a request for an "eye in the sky", dumping that system failure at his feet is basicly absurd.
|3 days 5 hours ago||Based on everything we know||
the players view and treat Hoke as a leader and someone for whom they want to play. They see him as someone they want to win for. They are fully invested in the team which includes the coaching staff. Hoke may be a poor coach from a won loss perspective, but his players see him as a leader.
As far as I know, no one here is in that locker room. No one here plays on Michigan's 2014 football team. No one here is in the position to judge Hoke's leadership. It may be popular right now to discount opposing opinions from those people who are in a position to judge Hoke's leadership as either naive or in a position that demands they support him for political reasons, but that is what they tell us. Their opinion carries far more weight than an anonymous poster on a blog.
Yes many many of you are disgusted with Hoke and that disgust breeds ever greater charicatures of whatever behavior annoys you. Bo respected Hoke. Helped him in his career, and followed his successes and set backs. Bo stood by the man he knew and, were he alive, would do so today. Your post does a disservice to both men.
|6 days 5 hours ago||I think your perspective is correct||
She is very careful NOT to say anything about Brandon directly, only that she and the other regents have receieved a great deal of input and expect a lot of public comment at the meeting and that the regents have a number of issues to discuss. The reference to the system failure is specific to what allowed Shane to get back on the field.
|1 week 1 day ago||There is a good chance that 6-6 and a bowl win returns Hoke||
With that record it would depend greatly, perhaps solely, on how the team was playing at seaon's end. You and others here would be well served to go listen to the former players comments on WTKA. Quite an eye opener. Assuming that the folks making the decisions about Hoke's future at Michigan are exposed to that input, the factors in Hoke's retention will extend far beyond his record or whether he beats either MSU and/or Ohio.
The former player's perspective about the state of this team is both far more realistic and measured that the vast majority of opinions here. After listening to their comments, and I listened to all of them which required some time, it is my considered opinion that Hoke's departure is far from certain, and possibly even unlikely.
As for next season, with or without Hoke, having both MSU and Ohio on the home schedule pretty much ensures that tickets will sell just fine.
At this point it doesn't matter, what will matter is the state of the program and the team at season's end. What matters now is the MSU game.
|1 week 1 day ago||Gardner has said that he had some attitude issues||
much earlier. At some point, according to him, as he got to know Hoke better he bought into what the coaches were trying to do. Not surprising that a highly ranked dual threat QB might have some reservations about a coaching change to a coach with a very different philosophy. Equally unsurprising that a guy like Hoke might think it best for a talented player who is resistant to the direction of the program might be better off elsewhere.
Spin this anyway you like. The bottom line is that Devin and Hoke ended up on the same page quite some time ago and share a deep and abiding mutual repsect. Does the history of how that came to pass really matter at all at this point?
|1 week 2 days ago||The team hasn't given up||
nor have the coaches.
They played their hearts out and played very tough in a rugged situaton. If they haven't given up, if they are unwilling to write off this season, why are you?
Football is strange. A team can come together. A team can find itself and turn things around. Sometimes a team can gel and play beyond themselves for the remainder of the season.
Tonight this team answered the challenge. On both sides of the ball and in special teams when it had to step up and answer it did. Don't expect blow outs or pretty games this year. The wins will be ugly dog fights right down to the wire. But this team can win. A road win is certainly possible.
|1 week 2 days ago||I said a couple of weeks ago||
that there would be a number of ugly games this season and that some would be wins and some losses.
Congratulations to team 135 and their coaches. GO BLUE!
BTW: More than a few folks here need to reconsider how "soft" this team is, and should think about acknowledging they are wrong.
|1 week 3 days ago||I realize that you dislike Brandon||
but equating him to a mass murder is well over the top.
For God's sake get a little perspective.
|1 week 3 days ago||I know as little about Schissel as you||
but from everything he''s said it is clear to me that academics are far more important to him than ANY sports program. If he wants "respect" he wants it for the academic successes that the University achieves under his leadership, not the restoration of the football progarm.
That said, his "appearance" on Thursday makes it clear that he is looking for a solution to the travales of the football program, but until we see his ongoing involvement with it's resurrection we are well advised to view this as the actions of a president who wants to put this aside so he can focus on what he thinks is important.
|1 week 3 days ago||Here is the problem with your narrative.||
Hoke and Nussmeier share the same agent. So it is a virtual certainty that Hoke "found" Nussmeier. In reality, the most probable sequence is that Hoke's agent reached out to him to see if he was interested in retaining Nussmeier, before he shopped Nussmeier to anyone else.
I realize that doesn't fit your world view, but any other flow would require that Nussmeier's agent was completely asleep. Highly unlikely in the extreme.
|1 week 3 days ago||I agree with this caveat||
This staff is here to the end of the season. The president has said this as has the AD. This was about starting to determine if Hoke and his staff will be here in 2015.
|1 week 4 days ago||I wrote the above before the comment about Debord being present||
If true DeBord's presense changes everything. Unless they are personal friends, DeBord is only there because the president is looking for expert advice about the state of the football program and the quality of the coaching staff. Clearly he wants that independent of Brandon's input.
DeBord knows Hoke, coached with him during the national championship season. He knows the history (public and private) and functioning of the Michigan football program inside and out. DeBord knows the historic, and probably current, recruiting pipelines and is in a postition to assess the impact of a coaching change on recruiting. How better for someone who admits he know nothing about football, to get a quality assessment of the football program? How better to determine the quality of Brandon's understanding of all of these same factors?
If Debord is being looked to as an interim AD he is in a postiion to assess whether or not Brady should be released and whether or not it's time to start a behind the scenes coaching search. That assessment would begin by "dropping by to observe a practice" and being present only to answer the president's questions without bothering the coaches while they are trying to do their jobs.
Unfortunately, while DeBord's presence changes much about the visit, it tells us little about the president's thinking. Brandon may indeed be on the way out (I would not have said that before) but the president may only have wanted assessment on his understanding of the football program. Hoke may be in the crosshairs, but the president may hear that based on what was observed, Brady has it together, the team is still invested and he should be given another year.
DeBord means that the president is gathering expert advice before acting, therefore he is comtemplating acting. That is not something we have seen signs of before. If DeBord was there. Someone must be able to confirm this one way or the other.
|1 week 4 days ago||I wouldn't read to much into this with regard to DB||
The wording is interesting the president "made a rare appearance" as opposed to, for example, "met with players and coaches". Was this arranged in advance, or did he simply "drop by"? Did he hang around and chat with players when they weren't actually practicing or were players extracted to meet with him? Did he chat with coaches while practice continued or interview them in private?
The show support comment suggests that he does not like the boycott idea and is moving to reassure the players that the university stands with them. If true that may suggest that he thinks that the boycott is directed at the football program/team which would undermine the goal of squeezing DB. On the other hand, the stated purpose of "supporting the student athletes" (note that specifically excludes the coaches and staff), implies he is separating coaches and players in his thinking. The statment is deliberately nebulous, so perhaps he has accepted DB as the focus of student ire, outside of fan anger about the current record.
I suspect this is more about him getting a sense of Hoke, the coaches, the players and the relationship between the coaches and players. That is what someone does when they are trying to discern the facts amidst a lot of conflicting information.
I would love to know if he spent some time in private with Hoke. Such a meeting, unless prearranged through channels, would suggest that he is going around the chain of command.
Perhaps more details will emerge, but at this point the only conclusion is that the president has chosen to directly involve himself in these issues. Whether this is good or bad is indeterminate.
|1 week 4 days ago||Nobody is protesting the coaching staff?||
Well perhaps Saturday's protest is not formally directed at the coaching staff, but the general narrative clearly protests the fact that Brady Hoke has not been fired, tarred and feathered, and shipped to some disease infested hell hole.
I mean come on the level of personal attacks on Hoke has been massive and ongoing. Most of the "corrective measures" demanded by those involved in organizing the protest have firing Hoke and "hiring a competent coach" as one of the first three demands.
You are drawing a line that only exists for the convenience of some arguments, but in reality isn't there. The single most common reason that people are so focused on dumping Brandon is so that he won't hire the next coach.
As my father said, "Don't piss on my shoe and tell me it's raining".
|1 week 5 days ago||Except you missed my point||
In hindsight I was unclear. I was speaking to the part of a student's budget that was taken up by season tickets. My comparison is perfectly good. When I was in school I had to buy gas and groceries just as students do now. If I wanted to go out I also had to dig up the money to pay for dinner or drinks or whatever. In real terms, that slice of my buget that was taken up by season tickets was LARGER than that slice is for students today.
Those are real world numbers, not some calculation that is fudged by "comparable substitutions" nor mitigated by dramatic reductions in the costs of some technologies. For example long distance phone service used to be far more expensive than it is today, that and similar cost reductions reduce the inflation calculation for it's presumed "basket of goods and services".
In terms of the actual cost of every day student expenses, comparing the same items purchased for the same purposes, football tickets occupy a smaller portion of a real student's budget today.
The price of tickets at other B1G schools is an interesting talking point but, unless you plan on attending those games instead of Michigan games, is not relevant. Without an in depth understanding of those schools funding mechanisms we can't know if we are comparing apples to apples. For example the state university (not a B1G school) which my SO's daughters attend charges every student a fee of around $175 to support "student activites" one of which is the football program which also charges them for tickets.
|1 week 5 days ago||Ticket prices...||
When I attended the university money was tight and season tickets for students cost $7.50 a game. Face price was $15 students paid half. So as a freshman my season tickets (7 games) cost me $52.50. Man that sounds cheap doesn't it?
Well hold on a moment. Back then a gallon of premium gasoline cost me around $0.35. My season tickets equated to about 150 gallons of gasoline. A gallon of premium gas today runs about $3.35. So the a comparable price for student season tickets for seven home games would be about $500. I can make similar comparisons for a six pack of beer, or a gallon of milk, or a pound of ground chuck.
Folks who pay full price and have to pony up the PSA can make the case they are getting screwed on ticket prices. The case is much more difficult to make for students. Now students today can fairly argue that their tickets are less desirable based on location. When I was a senior, if you were early enough in line you could get tickets on the fifty yard line. Obviously that has all changed. Even so, based on 40 odd years of inflation, student tickets are not a bad deal compared to when I attended Michigan. The recent price increases seem unreasonable largely because the price of student tickets was artificailly suppressed for years.
|1 week 6 days ago||Except that is not what he said yet again||
Here is your problem stuffing those words in his mouth. Nussmeier has said pretty much the exact same thing more than once. Nussmeier has explained more than once that Gardner's legs figure in the offense but that he wants Gardner to let the system work for him and only run when appropriate. Sometimes that's a design run, sometimes thats a check down, and sometimes that's a scramble.
If you've carefully watched Nussmeier's pressers, when he can't say something he believes he simply says nothing or answers a fragment of the question. He has said several times that Gardner's legs are valuable within the system. From my perspective that says he considers himself hadncuff free.
|1 week 6 days ago||HIs fellow players have a different view||
If you go read the stories written when Brandon was hired as AD you'll find an interview with a former player. I found this looking for a copy of his employment contract when I was curious about his metrics. In that interview the player acknowledges that Brandon only appeared on the field a couple of times, but stated that he was very active mentoring young players to help them achieve their best. In his senior year, Brandon, while never a starter, was one of the seniors that undeclassmen relied on for support. So at least while he was a student athlete here, he clearly was "Michigan" in the best sense of that description.
I understand that doesn't fit your preferred narrative, but it appears to be true.
|1 week 6 days ago||Maybe maybe not but||
I guess you've never loved a dog or a pet. My last dog was with me for 15 years. His photo is still on my cell phone. I've "moved on" but, six years after his death, he's still on my cell and from time to time I still miss him.
I've buried both people and pets. Some family some friends. No one, and I damn well mean no one is in a position to judge someone else's loss. You are totally full of crap, but here is a secret, if you live long enough you'll suffer losses that others will tell you to move on from, and you sir will find just how absurdly painful that kind of crap really is. - Have a long long life because someday you'll look back at this and be humbled by your own arrogance and I want you to taste that bitterness for as long as humanly possible.
|1 week 6 days ago||I have no disdain for popular opinion||
Hell, I am no different than any of you, nor would I ever grant myself some privilege. I don't walk among them, but I have had the opportunity to work for them and be around them when they are not on guard.
Their disdain has NOTHING to do with the football program or any sports program or any student function at the university. So please do not let it affect your passion for the university or any of its facets. My point is that for the most part they are simply focused on very different things than us. Truly in my experience it is as if most of them just landed from a distant planet, while there are exceptions, those are frew and far between.
Presented with a goal, I have learned to set emotion aside and, to my best abilities, determine how to move toward that goal. Sometimes that means moving people, sometimes that means betting on a technology.
Many of you have the goal of removing Brandon from office. I can see both pluses and minuses in that, but let us assume that you've retained me to help you accomplish that goal. I'd be required to tell you that I have a vested interest in the success of the football program and as such my view of your best focus might be colored by that fact.
So here is my view of the problem. You don't and probably can't control how the goal and motivations of the protest will be viewed. The season is far from over. Yes you and others would have preferred Harbaugh to Hoke, but no one knows if that was even possible. Yes the protest can be about the team's record, but that comes across as fans angry about losing. That comes across about being angry about the team. Protests are very much a blunt instrument, not a scalpel. So it's very hard to shape the context.
You want to remove Brandon right? Then you need to build support among those who make that decision. The last thing that you want to do is create a bunker mentality among those who you need to infuence. MGoBlog has a wide audience. I suspect that someone here is on a first name basis with a regent, probably more than one. Find one and convince him or her to take your case to the regents. You need an advocate on the inside. Or at least get him or her to get you some private time to make your case. If you can get an advocate among the regents then you can present the nuances necessary to convince them that this is more than outrage driven by a bad record.
The worst possible thing that you can do is further hamper the program's progress. Any thing that remotely looks like that guts any credibility you might seek and focuses them on you as a problem.
Forget this protest. Find an advocate among the regents. Convince that person that your views have merit and you'll be 3/4ths of the way to your goal.
I understand that this is vague, but I have no more inside access than you. Still if you want to succeed, as opposed to simly enjoying venting, then you'll look to influence people not crush them.
|1 week 6 days ago||100% correct||
For the most part Hoke can't defer a quesion his coordiantors can. That can make for a very different press conference.
|2 weeks 58 min ago||No It will not show them that||
There are to many variables. Think about next year's home game schedule. Think about the highly bitched about current home game schedule. Why would they not believe that the vastly more compelling 2015 home game schedule won't drive ticket sales, when everyone has been bitching about how poor this seasons home game schedule is?
The connection is to weak. I understand what you are saying and if by acting in this way you sent a clear message you might make headway. The problem is that the recipients or observers of your behavior will assign their own meaning. You will send them a message, the problem is that you have NO idea what message will be sent, and it does not matter what context you attempt to put around it.
The regents and the president will look at this through their own lens. To change that focus, they would have to believe your nuance. If the team were undefeated with a shot at both the conference championship and the national championship and your message was this is not about winning or losing, you'd have some chance of them believeing it. The problem is, and if you are honest you'll acknowledge, that the vast majority of those who are willing to partcipate are only willing to participate because the team is 2-4. Do you really think they are not going to put that filter on whatever you try to say?
I am NOT defending your and others legitimate critisms of Brandon. I've made some of them myself. If I thought that the protest approach had a snowball's chance in hell of making a difference, I'd wince at the impact on the program and shut up.
I've dealt with people like those on the regents, both in the public and private sector, for a bit more than three decades. I've organized campaigns to unseat some of those with whom I've dealt. In my considered opinion, the protest you contemplate for Saturday is NOT going to have the result for which you hope. Further, it has an excellent chance of strengthening Brandon's position with the very people who will make the firing decision. I say to all of you again, while this protest might make you all feel better, it will not have the effect you hope for and carries a very high cost to the program.
Some of you feel that burning down the program is the only way to "save" it. Do any of you really think folks like the regents would even consider that view?
There are other channels to pursue none of which endanger the long term health of the program.
|2 weeks 3 hours ago||Actually they'll tell him||
you are all overreacting to the generally poor performance of the football team. Odds are that even if he cares about your sentiments, he'll buy that explanation.
I was in a demonstration once in a meeting of the regents and President Fleming. It was staged during the "public comment" portion of the meeting. There were thousands of other students outside. The entire building was surrounded by a mob of students. I was just part of the handful that got inside to present issues to those in the meeting. They heard us out and then Fleming said "You are all only hurting your cause". Then public time was over and we were "escorted" out.
That demonstration and many others like it had exactly NO impact on the decisions made by the regents and president. It is my considered belief that the regents and president have very little concern about your opposition to Brandon. I also believe that they will prove very very resistant to firing him simply because a portion of the student body, or even the entire student body, think he's done a bad job. That decision is one that they reserve to themselves, using their own criteria, and will prove reluctant to give any appearance of caving to the students, or anyone else.
I'm no one's puppet. I simply believe that your protest will be completely ineffective in influencing them in removing Brandon and will harm the program and team both short and long term.
|2 weeks 4 hours ago||Point taken I do not know what you think||
and ascribed intent to you based on my reading of your comment. I did exactly what I accused you of doing regarding Hoke and I apologize.
The response to Angelique that you found sarcastic, I found humorous and I believe she found it the same. I put my interpretation on Hoke's intent as you put yours. What you and others see as snarky I do not. Nor do I think that an intent to abuse or perhaps irritate, which is part and parcel to snark, is generally present in Hoke responses. As you said it's the ear of the beholder.
Mattison defers one or two questions every presser to Hoke. They are generally the ones either about injuries or on other topics Hoke won't answer. Hoke doesn't get to defer most questions to others, one exception being on the details of Shane's diagnosis which he deferred to the statement he expected to be released by the medical staff which ultimately was released by Brandon. It's easier to "play nice" with the media if you can redirect the questions you have no intention of answering to others.
Another good example of this is when Angelique (I think) asks Nussmeier about the incomplete call that ended the last drive at Rutgers. He does not answer but gets this very slowly growing smile and a look on his face as he looks at his questioner as if to say "you don't really think I'm going to answer that". The questioner then says something like "So your silence means you disagree" and he says "I didn't say that" or some such. That comes across to me in exactly the same way as Hoke's answer about Mags.
When a member of the media asks a question that they know, or should know, is not going to get a meaningful answer you have to doubt their intent. Under those circumstances I tend to grant rather broad latitude in what is appropriate as an answer.
|2 weeks 7 hours ago||No doubt?||
Actually there is plenty of doubt about it effectuating a change - much of that doubt has been expressed here. You are expressing only your opinon. You don't define reality. I get that you believe what you say, others, myself included, believe you are mistaken.
However, should ESPN "foam at the mouth" it's hard to believe it won't have a strongly negative effect on recruiting. Even if you believe that recruiting is already in serious trouble, there is no reason to add more negatives to the situation.
|2 weeks 10 hours ago||Well they effectively asked him number 1||
The "toughest week" question pretty much covered that one. Any of the others would be ignored and the questioner would not be in another press conference.
The image you describe is one that you've created for him. It is shared here by people who share your dislike of Hoke due to his record and or other factors. It is not the image he has with all fans or followers of Michigan football, abd possibly not even close to the majority. I doubt we can know that distribution, but even in this echo chamber many look at Hoke very differently than you.
Snark - referred to "abusive or sarcastic speech or writing". -- Find me "snark" in his last press conference. I'll wait. Perhaps there are a couple of interactions that come across as having a degree of sarcasm but mostly not and there is nothing abusive.
Your "sadness" over this has nothing to do with Hoke's image or concern for possible coming discomfort. You are unhappy with his refusal to share information that you believe you rightfully should have.
|2 weeks 23 hours ago||RUDE???||
For crap's sake watch the press conference. Banter would best describe the tone of virtually the entire presser. Give and take and very liitle edge on either side (with a couple exceptions). This whole Hoke is rude, or treats the press badly, or whatever is a narrative not supported by the actual events.
I understand that you, and I for that matter, would like to know about injuries, but Hoke is under no obligation to cater to our desires in that regard. Get over it and stop assigning connotations to his press conferences that exist only in your emotions.