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I don't know on the XL…

I don't know on the XL sizing, because I have a 3XL which is perfect. (I am 6'3", and 310 pounds, so not small.) I got the Navy. I absolutely love everything about this. It is now on sale at the Tournament of Roses store at 15% off, so $80. They are out of 3XL, but I might buy a 2nd one at 2XL since I have lost 30 pounds anyway. The other thing for me is that I often will get a tall, but this one is ok without that option.

LINK:  https://www.tournamentofrosesshop.com/p-201058435?_s=Trigg_GlobalTrigger&loc=en-US&cur=USD&utm_medium=email&utm_source=abandon_browse-AB2&utm_position=1&utm_content=201058435&SFMC=2416424_7016_290_a16771e84f84595fb9f22243918dd359

I don't want to start a new…

I don't want to start a new message board thread, but I have a related question. I would like to add a block M or an arch "Michigan" to a couple pieces of clothing.

  1. I have a Columbia watertight jacket in "collegiate Navy." I want to have a simple small block M embroidered/sewn an the alternate chest to the "Columbia" logo and name.
  2. I have an old Champion heavy weight reverse weave sweatshirt with an arch "Michigan" sewn across the front. I'd like to buy the identical sweatshirt. If this isn't made anywhere, has anyone ever had the letters sewn on themselves?

If any of you have had this done, and can give advise on how, please let me know.

Have the exact same thing,…

Have the exact same thing, but for the Rose Bowl game. I slightly prefer it to the NCG pullover because it has the Rose Bowl logo, and the championship playoff logo, and the Michigan block M, and because I went to the Rose Bowl. It looks so good, I can wear it most places, sometimes over a button down. 

However, I agree that there is definitely a challenge finding well designed, good looking, well wearing apparel.

Exactly. Great looking,…

Exactly. Great looking, ridiculously pricey.

Back in 92 - 93, I did my student internship less than 9 miles away from the Rose Bowl, and went to the game. About a week later, I was able to absolutely clean up on Michigan gear, especially the pricey stuff. There was a "closeout" store in Pasadena, and once all the fans left LA, they had tons of merch yet to sell. This year, I called the Rose Bowl office the day after the game, looking to see if there still was a closeout store location. No such luck. With the internet now, they can continue to gouge you for full price.

C'est la vie. I bit the bullet, because I liked it enough, and saved enough in going to the game.

EDIT:  I will say that this pullover looks VERY nice. The sewn / embroidered stuff definitely is nicer than a screen print. It has the NC football, the Block M, but also the proprietary Rose Bowl logo. The fabric looks great, and I prefer a non-hoodie, and don't need or want hand pockets. It is a pretty dark Navy that pops with the logos. My only question will be how it wears, and how it looks after several washes. Also, this kind of fabric looks like it could snag, so I'll have to be careful about that. But it does look good now.

I'm sure you can find it. I…

I'm sure you can find it. I actually bought (and received) the same Antigua navy pullover yesterday, but for the Rose Bowl. I was at the Rose Bowl, plus I love the iconic Rose Bowl embroidered emblem along with the classic Michigan block M. I didn't make Houston, and it just doesn't mean as much to me as Houston. I'm sure I'll get something for the National Championship, but I also wanted something for the Rose Bowl game, memories and all.

https://www.tournamentofrosesshop.com/p-201058435?_s=Trigg_GlobalTrigger&loc=en-US&cur=USD&utm_medium=email&utm_source=abandon_browse-AB3&utm_position=1&utm_content=201058435&SFMC=2408370_5020_290_a16771e84f84595fb9f22243918dd359

I used to post frequently,…

I used to post frequently, but have moved to mostly lurker status. Although, it was through a single post the day after Christmas that another mgoblogger graciously sold me a couple tickets to the Rose Bowl this year. Best Christmas gift ever!!

  • Favorite on field memory:  literally being at the Rose Bowl with my wife this year. Virtually the whole game was wonderful. Possibly the best game I ever attended in my 46 years of Michigan games. Certainly the best Rose Bowl I've been at, having attended the game in both '94 and '04.
  • Not much angered me on the field this year. My anger/irritation was largely with things off the field.
  • Surprise - I suppose Thaw (soon to be gone) was a surprise. The rest of the team was already good in 2022. Maybe a second surprise was Kenneth Grant . . . I'll never forget seeing him run down the PSU RB. Incredible.
  • Favorite feature . . . very hard to pick a favorite. I love most of Brian's writing. I love having a single place to find Michigan coverage. Seth has been a tremendous part of making mgoblog work.

However, upon reflection, it has been several members of the mgocommunity who have been my favorite feature. More than that, life changing.

  • I can't share details, but it was through the friendship and then counsel of another  mgoblog reader that wonderful things happened for my family. My son's life changed radically, possibly keeping him out of jail, to the point where he is now successful, makes more money than me, has his head on straight, and will finish his degree this year. My daughter, again indirectly through help through this reader, has been off of heroin for 2 1/2 years. (EDIT:  and I am pretty sure this reader has no clue what a massive help and difference he was, because of an indirect recommendation.)
  • The generosity of an mgoreader to sell me two Rose Bowl tickets, around the 20 yard line in section 17, was just astounding. This individual could have sold on the open market for thousands, but chose to let me as a fellow mgoblogger and Michigan fan go, selling slightly below what they paid the athletic department for the tickets. It was a very touching act of kindness for me to receive.

After pretty much a year off, I have to communicate sometime with one of the proprietors. After doing so, I will either continue to lurk, or move back to occasionally posting and commenting on other's posts.

Very cool. Was actually able…

Very cool. Was actually able to find myself, just a scant 2 sections from Seth over in 17, halfway up or so. Thanks for the link to this!

UPDATE from OP:  Wow, things…

UPDATE from OP:  Wow, things are really falling together in a wonderful way.

  • Thursday, I found out I "should" be able to get there and back from and to the Chicago area on United and American Airlines with my wife. (pray that Beth and I would both be able to get out there on Sunday afternoon.)
  • Friday morning another mgopartisan graciously and generously sold me a pair of excellent tickets, a bit below face value, in the Michigan section.
  • I did a student internship out in the area 30 years ago, when I went to my first Rose Bowl. I have parking and seats set up 2 minutes from the parade route with old friends.
  • We have a day and a half to spend in the LA area Tuesday and Wednesday, heading back Wednesday night.

Things could scarcely be better. As mentioned above, the only weak link is getting out there on Sunday. Thanks to all who were willing to help a fellow Michigan fan out!

No problem whatsoever. Even…

No problem whatsoever. Even if you had sold to UMgoblue2008, it wouldn't have bothered me. Just selling to a Michigan fan is a great thing. And thanks for the opportunity . . . I had to wait until I nailed down flights.

HaHaHa. Nah, I'm doing this…

HaHaHa. Nah, I'm doing this trip as cheaply as possible. Flying in on United buddy passes. Staying in a niece's 1 bedroom apartment. Don't think I can fit into a Lambo. But yes, looking at a possible several day long trip, and yes, God is good.

XM, yep, that happened. It…

XM, yep, that happened. It appears umgoblue2008 bought the tickets. Oh well, you snooze, you lose. I had an extended family post Christmas party today, and wasn't able to get to email fast enough. Sigh. Such is life. Maybe I'll get lucky and someone else will reach out. Thanks for thinking of me!

If it did happen, c'est la…

If it did happen, c'est la vie. God is good, and if I'm meant to go, it will happen. I wouldn't, couldn't, blame another Michigan fan for picking up tickets if they were able to pick up tickets and go. (As long as they don't pick them up and sell them on the open market!)

Do you have to be part of…

Do you have to be part of the alumni association? Nonetheless, I will check this out tomorrow. Thanks for the advice!

Great question! But nope,…

Great question! But nope, tithe money is gone, and then some, and gladly so.

With jaws. Dr. Jaws, that is.

With jaws. Dr. Jaws, that is.

What a wonderful answer to…

What a wonderful answer to prayer, and a credit to hard police work. It is a crazy world we live in. I am thankful not only that Brooklyn has been found and is on her way home, but am very happy for her mom and dad, and her whole family. When kids make . . . poor choices, they typically have NO IDEA the trauma their family, especially their parents, most especially their mother, go through.

I pretty much annually have…

I pretty much annually have bought the mgoblog magazine and t-shirt for $50. I guess I could give more. I've used ad blockers before, but they have their own problems. Visually and mentally, I can manage to ignore almost all ads. Obviously, the TruStage ad is in a different category.

Targeted ads have gotten so bad that I have even thought to go to the library to search, so that I don't get ads based on my searching and browsing history.

I stopped posting or…

I stopped posting or commenting at MGoBlog last December (except for a single post with well wishes and prayers for Seth's son.) But I hate the TruStage ad so very much, I'm moved right now to briefly break my fast and to post my irritation and disgust. Let alone the fact I will NEVER EVER buy anything, invest anything, do anything with TruStage. It is to the point, MGoBlog will be moved off of my regular reading schedule. It is so irritating, I'm wondering if it is a ploy by Brian or Seth to get readers to buy a subscription. Because, I would gladly pay to read here if that eliminated full page ads.

May the One who blessed our…

May the One who blessed our ancestors, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, Sarah, Rebecca, Rachel, and Leah, bless and heal Seth's son. May the Holy Blessed One be filled with compassion for their health to be restored and their strength to be revived. May God heal him soon, body and soul, together with others who suffer illness. And let us say: Amen

My prayers are not only with your son, but especially with your wife, and also with you. I think the agony and grief of a mother's heart for their sick or struggling child can be very severe. שָׁלוֹם

p.s. For me, I will be praying for you all in reality. It is part of my daily life.

I'll just say I fit very…

I'll just say I fit very well with the ethos and foundational beliefs of Harbaugh, and Hart, and Edwards, with Corum, with McCarthy, with former player Aiden Hutchinson, and with many, many others associated directly with the team. I fit much less well with the ethos and foundational beliefs of much of the student body, much of the faculty, many Michigan grads, many mgobloggers, including mods and writers and others. This lack of congruence never was a problem for me in the time I was active at mgoblog. What really stuck in my craw is that DIRECTLY quoting many coaches and players on the team was offensive to some readers, mods, and proprietors. In response, mods and proprietors backed said readers, and took down posts. I was directly asked by a proprietor NOT to quote the team and point out their PUBLIC positions, because it "makes me feel less connected to my team." 

XM, what am I to do? I'm not a former Michigan player. I don't have coaching experience. I don't have anything to add with X's and O's. I generally don't hang out with Michigan coaches or players. Imhe, I can't really add any helpful football content. And I'm not gonna talk about what I'm drinking, or eating, or driving. The reality is, I don't have anything of value to add to the board anymore, if I can't comment out of my area of expertise. Sometimes, you just need to know when to quit, when to let it go, when to shake the dust off your feet and move on. To try to put a positive spin on it, I really, truly don't want to offend readers, or mods, or site owners. Having stopped participating allows me not to give offense. This blog and the topics covered are aren't my main arena or focus in life. Commenting less, posting less, and reading less frees up time for things that are more important to me. In a weird kind of way, I resonate with Brian, who really has stepped back from writing and participating nearly as much as he used to do.

I'll continue to read news at Mgoblog, and use it as a source of links to information I wouldn't have seen otherwise. I'll still be around . . . I'll just be mostly invisible. I began as a lurker many, many years ago, and I'm comfortable going back to that, for the most part. In fact, I am fine with this comment being buried in a old thread, very unlikely to be read by almost anyone. Honestly, I'm putting this response down more for me than for you! It is part of helping me to wash my hands. If you read this, I hope you can read between the lines. If you want to communicate more, you can reach me at srkass at fifcc dot org. Thanks for your contributions!

XM, I've already been…

XM, I've already been excoriated by others, including readers, mods and a main proprietor, and had posts removed, for directly quoting the words of team coaches and players on matters you refer to. That's why I haven't added any new posts to the message board since last year, and rarely commented in a thread. If directly quoting Coach Harbaugh and Coach Hart and Donovan Edwards and JJ McCarthy is now considered off limits, there's really nothing worthwhile for me to add to the blog. I'm best off as a lurker.

I almost never comment at…

I almost never comment at mgoblog anymore. But I wish people could just enjoy Michigan more, instead of dumping on MSU. I'm no fan of MSU, and in fact, I don't follow them at all. Have never been to any MSU sports websites, not even once. But there comes a point where it's just piling on. How bad do MSU and Indiana and Rutgers, etc. have to be? Obviously, I always want Michigan to win. But it's not much fun when it is the equivalent of playing a D2 team.

Yep, they stuck with the…

Yep, they stuck with the game here in the Chicago area.

Great news. Regarding Warde,…

Great news. Regarding Warde, I think too many people assume he has the power and authority to do more than he can do. More specifically, with NIL, with admissions requirements for transfers, and even some with the salaries of assistant coaches, Warde can't unilaterally approve what I'm pretty sure Harbaugh is asking for.

Historically, almost every…

Historically, almost every team at the top has gone through a significant valley, and some are still there. Think about it:  Michigan, USC, Alabama, Florida, Florida State, LSU, Auburn, Penn State, Clemson, Miami, UCLA, Texas, Nebraska, Notre Dame, Stanford, Georgia, all of them have had significant "down" periods in the last 50 years. Some of the teams on the list are still there, and may never come back up to the heights of success they once enjoyed. Historically, there are yet other teams who have been "down" for a yet longer time. Minnesota, MSU, Rutgers, Army, Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc. If I am correct, OSU, is virtually the ONLY team that has NOT had a significant and prolonged down period in their teams success.

OSU is more than due to experience some real suffering. And, imhe, some of their fans are the most insufferable.

Michigan fans have also been pretty arrogant, but the last 20 years have temperred that, at least a bit. Be thankful for success when it comes, but don't let it make you a royal jerk.

Normally, I'd agree. But it…

Normally, I'd agree. But it filled me up on a cool morning and was just the amount of energy I needed to comfortably make it up. I ate 2/3 before, and the rest when done.

Definitely second the…

Definitely second the recommendations to go hiking, but they are strenuous. I don't think you can go wrong with either Camelback or Piestawa (formerly Squaw Peak.)You should be in reasonably good shape, and bring a pair of hiking boots. I'd also really recommend getting up early to get there early. . . you can get a humongous breakfast burrito at Filibertos, iirc. Bring a good sized water bottle and trekking poles. Leave early enough to get there by 6:45am. This way, you will be on the trails well before they are super busy, can enjoy the summit, and head back down. I'd advise avoiding these hikes if it is rainy or wet. Obviously, layer in a way that you can shed a layer or add a layer if you are hot or cold.

I'd definitely advise going to Taliesin West, the Frank Lloyd Wright active school and location in eastern Scottsdale. Well worth your time.

I'd also suggest early morning hikes in the Botanical gardens and the desert.

There are times when it can be a royal pain to drive far in the Phoenix area, so keep that in mind, and plan accordingly.

It's hard to give recommendations on food without knowing your tastes and your budget. But Phoenix is a major city, and you can find pretty much any cuisine at most any price point if you want to.

FTR, Here are winners from…

FTR, Here are winners from Michigan in the last 50 years:

  • Blake Corum
  • Aidan Hutchinson
  • Denard Robinson
  • Brandon Graham
  • Braylon Edwards
  • Chris Perry
  • Charles Woodson
  • Desmond Howard
  • Jim Harbaugh
  • Anthony Carter
  • Rob Lytle
Being able to keep contain…

Being able to keep contain on a mobile QB will go a long, long way for me to truly believe Michigan has arrived. I still have nighmares of mobile QB's at OSU who could also pass.

To answer your above request…

To answer your above request regarding the ban being spelled out, I don't think it explicitly is.

That's kind of what I thought. And as I've said more than once, I tried to be pretty scrupulous in only quoting Coach Harbaugh and players, and not adding my own editorializing. Where I am frustrated is that in counting the number of posts here at MGoBlog, my posts were the ONLY ones in hundreds and hundreds hitting on a spiritual theme. And my post provided documentation, links, and was based on direct quotes and direct actions from the coach and the team. We can have 4 threads on Llewellyn blowing out his knee in a mere 10 minutes, but 1 thread literally quoting Harbaugh and Edwards and highlighting JJ and Corum is too much! Somehow, it just seems odd that you can't even quote Harbaugh or the team on what is clearly their priority.

The other thing is that a lot of the discussion (in the first post) was fairly thoughtful and respectful. It didn't degenerate into a flame war. It was clearly a topic that was of interest to many readers here. It seems like there were a handful of objectors who couldn't deal with it being a topic of discussion at MGoBlog. If someone is a pagan, or a Muslim, or an atheist, or Jewish, or totally agnostic, why do they have to click on a thread they know they're not going to be happy with? Why do they feel the need to shut it down? Why do they get their way, when the vast majority of people have no problem with the thread? It's not like I was being obtuse: "Michigan is a spiritual team." as a thread title should totally be a RED FLAG to avoid reading for those who aren't into spirituality in the least.

It's kind of like a discussion on music. I have pretty eclectic tastes in what I listen to. If you don't like what I like to listen to, that's perfectly fine. But why does anyone have to demand that I can't talk about it with others at MGoBlog? To use two stupid examples, I almost never jump in to a thread on "What are you drinking?" or in to a thread about "Cars" on Tuesday. Just because I don't care what you're drinking or what you're driving doesn't mean that I need to demand that others at the blog can't discuss those topics.

I don't want to be salty, and I want to be respectful and considerate, especially of Seth and of you, Rob. I also have way too much other real stuff to do, so I just need to let it go. MGoBlog is my escape from reality, which isn't always good. I don't feel a sense of resolution or fairness. Nonetheless, we're grownups. We already know that life isn't fair. I'm not a 5 year old whining to mommy, "That's not fair." Thanks for letting me vent. And of course, feel free to delete this comment.

My wife and I get the…

My wife and I get the bivalent vaccine and the flu vaccine in September before going to Poland. Coming back on the plane in mid-October, the guy next to her was hacking. And unfortunately, she wasn't wearing a mask, and she came down with Covid. Being in indoor spaces around people is just dangerous, although I'd imagine masking up would help somewhat.

Day? Larry Johnson? I dunno…

Day? Larry Johnson? I dunno. But I'm happy we're not facing the likes of Fields or Burrows or Haskins. Let alone a solid DL.

I will be much more…

I will be much more circumspect and strictly Michigan sports related in both posts, and in comments to posts of others.

Nope. I agree wholeheartedly…

Nope. I agree wholeheartedly with you. Give all the awards to others, but let Michigan beat Georgia and win the National Championship.

FTR, thank you. Because the…

FTR, thank you. Because the previous post from a week prior on a similar topic wasn't deleted, I never came over here to read the request from a reader to enforce a ban and the comments. That helps add context. My only remaining request is that you give me a link to where on the site the ban is spelled out. kthxbye.

Can't help but notice Chase…

Can't help but notice Chase Young from OSU on the list.

Michigan has improved massively. They are tougher, stronger, more disciplined than OSU. However, it is a huge help to Michigan the last two years that we haven't had to deal with either of the Bosa brothers, or Chase Young, or a moblie QB.

MJ14, I'd like to reach out…

MJ14, I'd like to reach out to you. If you wish, srkass at fifcc dot org

Thankful to be watching OTA…

Thankful to be watching OTA in 4K in Chicago market.

Congratuations to Cade, and…

Congratuations to Cade, and I hope things going well for him at Iowa . . . except against Michigan, of course.

Can you post the link? I…

Can you post the link? I miss seeing Space Coyote here at mgoblog.

In one sense, we'll be…

In one sense, we'll be active. Cade's in the portal. By extension, Michigan's down a player via the portal.

We do have a no religion…

We do have a no religion rule on here. But we also have a rule on here about covering what the team is saying and doing. This is why I was so careful to avoid sharing my personal religious beliefs, and to only quote the coaches and the players on the team. What they say is fair game. What I say is not.

As I also mentioned in the thread above, do a count: since the game, as of 3:54pm EST on Wed. 11/30, there have been 188 posts. This is the only one of those 188 that focuses on what Harbaugh and others on the team have shared as regards spirituality. That works out to about a half percent, .53% to be exact.

If you have a problem with Harbaugh or Edwards or Corum or McCarthy, that's fine, and your prerogative. I suppose if you wanted to, you could complain to the Regents or to the AD about Harbaugh and these players. But this is a Michigan blog, about Michigan sports, and I would contend that quoting Harbaugh and a number of the leaders on the team, particularly on their own priorities, is entirely appropriate.

Sam1863, I'd totally agree…

Sam1863, I'd totally agree with you that is Edwards or Harbaugh (or Corum or McCarthy) wanted to be praised, and wanted to say in so many words, "look at me, look at me, look at my righteousness, my holiness, my goodness, my spirituality," that would make no sense. Too many people in church are all about themselves. When people have buildings named after themselves, or foundations, isn't that exactly what they're doing?

But I don't think that's Harbaugh's or Edward's or Corum's or McCarthy's intent. In fact, I didn't focus on it, but Harbaugh REPEATEDLY has given all the credit to the players, to the coaches, and to God, and not to himself. Edwards very much said the same thing. McCarthy has been fairly circumspect about his personal practice of meditation. I doubt he would talk about it at all except that he has been asked about it by curious media members. And the quote about Corum in the original post made clear he was concerned people would think he was fishing for public praise and acclaim.

No I think there is another factor at play. In the sermon on the mount from Jesus which you quoted, Jesus also said:

No one lights a lamp and then puts it under a basket. Instead, a lamp is placed on a stand, where it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your good deeds shine out for all to see, so that everyone will praise your heavenly Father. Matthew 5:15-16.

The very last thing that Jesus said in the Bible is this:

You will be my witnesses, telling people about me everywhere—in Jerusalem, throughout Judea, in Samaria, and to the ends of the earth. Acts 1:8

This is a significant motivation for many on the team.

Mtzlblk, I am not touting my…

Mtzlblk, I am not touting my own personal religious beliefs, and was pretty careful to leave my own personal religious beliefs entirely out of this discussion. What I have merely done is to quote Coach Harbaugh, and Donovan Edwards, and Blake Corum, and JJ McCarthy, in interviews after the game, and before the game, and over time. If they have been interviewed, and put something in the public sphere, and shared what their priorities are, is that or is that not a fair topic for the board to consider?

Others in this thread added private instagrams from players. Because I'm an old fart who uses neither instagram nor tiktok nor twitter, I can't comment intelligently as to which of those forums are "private" and which are "public." Although, I'd lean towards assuming they are public.

To be clear, in my OP, I never suggested in any way that anyone on mgoblog needed to agree with or support Harbaugh, Edwards, Corum, or McCarthy. We can disagree with all kinds of things on the team, not just religious beliefs, and yet support the team.

I don't know who mgoblogger MJ14 is, but he sounds like someone who is in the locker room and knows 1000% more than I do. He has repeatedly said that this is not a problem on Michigan's team, and is extremely common on many teams, mentioning Saban and Alabama, Fickell and Cincinnati, Lincoln Riley and USC, let alone Dabo Swinney.

I do suspect there is a very significant disconnect between the beliefs and values of most of the team, and the beliefs of a majority of Michigan professors and students and alumni. I also suspect the team and coaches are aware of that disconnect. I will probably never know, because I am not close to anyone currently on the team. But my guess is that I would personally be more in synch with the beliefs of the team than with the beliefs of most Michigan profs. C'est la vie.

Personally, I would love to hear more from Gelb and Gentry and El-Hadi and others on the team who don't share religious beliefs and spiritual practices with most of the team.

There are many things that all of us don't personally like which are common in society. We can choose to be offended, or to let it roll off our backs.

I will use several personal examples. 

  • I have attended religious ceremonies that are not from my own religious tradition. I can attend something, without personally participating in everything prayed or said. This doesn't offend me, or bother me in the least.
  • I take no offense when someone says "Happy Hannakah," or "Happy Kwanza," or "Happy Winter Solstice," and when then deliberately avoid saying "Merry Christmas." Why should I care? Why should this bother me? As far as I'm concerned, Christmas is largely a secular holiday anyway.
  • I'm not a big fan of those who genetically have an assigned sex (male / female,) but have chosen a non-binary gender, and choose to use either "they" as their personal pronoun, or choose to use the pronoun (he/she) of the opposite gender. However, this is their choice. Why should I be offended?

I would have absolutely no problem removing "In God We Trust" from US currency. In fact, I think it would be a good thing. It wouldn't bother me if coinage said "In Void We Trust." In fact, coins used 2,000 years ago in Israel said, loosely translated, "Divine Augustus, Emperor." Jews at that time used those coins, even though they absolutely disagreed with the inscriptions.

Bob, serious question. Tell…

Bob, serious question. Tell me what it is to "force his/her religion on others?" Because that isn't clear to me.

Let me use an analogy. I assume you love Michigan. In loving Michigan, would you strongly recommend that your children, or the children of your friends, consider going to Michigan? Would you share fond memories of Michigan, if you attended Michigan? Would you proudly wear Michigan apparel? Of course you would.

Here's where you would cross the line to "forcing." If you told your kids, "I'll pay for your tuition . . . if you go to Michigan. But if you go to OSU or MSU, you're on your own . . . you won't have  a dime of support from me." If you had two kids, with one of them going to Michigan and one of them somewhere else, would you tell your kids, "I'm leaving the bulk of my inheritance to anyone with a degree from Michigan."

What it seems that you're proposing is that you be entirely private about your Michigan fandom. You would never sing the Victors out loud. You wouldn't wear Michigan apparel. You wouldn't share about your positive experiences at Michigan, because you don't want to "force" or "coerce" your kids into going there. You would tell your kids, "it doesn't matter where you go. It's totally up to you." And if your kids were accepted to Michigan, MSU, OSU, EMU, and Washtenaw Community College," you would say, "they're all good choices. You decide. I don't want you to feel forced or coerced."

To say nothing positive about Michigan would be ludicrous. It would make complete sense to try to influence others about Michigan. BUT . . . you know and I know that ultimately, your kids and others need to decide for themselves, and you can't force them to go somewhere they don't believe in.

Aren't Harbaugh, and Edwards, and others, doing the same thing? They don't need to force their beliefs on Jews or Atheists or Muslims or Mormons. More specifically, Mica Gelb loves Michigan, and doesn't pray with the team, even though he is Jewish. If Giovanni El-hadi is Muslim, I haven't heard a peep of discrimination against him. Andrew Gentry is a Mormon, but he was glad to join the team There certainly is room for religious diversity on the Michigan team.

 

But that's exactly what Gelb…

But that's exactly what Gelb, a Jewish player on the Michigan team, does. And he is not looked down on at all. He is respected for standing up for his different beliefs.

Thanks very much for sharing…

Thanks very much for sharing this. Fascinating and good read. It reminded me of another non-Christian on the team, Mormon OT Andrew Gentry. Harbaugh met him while he was serving on his 2 year mission, in the process of him choosing Michigan instead of Virginia.

Regarding Gelb, I think it is great that he can be there during a prayer, but respectfully abstain, since these are not his beliefs.

1989 UM GRAD, I totally…

1989 UM GRAD, I totally agree that NO ONE has a right to impose their religious views on others.

Because you don't want to get in a back and forth, I will not expect a response. But I immediately wonder, what is it to "impose?" I personally don't see anything in the words and actions of Coach Harbaugh, McCarthy, Corum, and Edwards quoted above that imposes their beliefs on others. If any of them were saying in any way, "you need to believe this . . . or else . . . ," well, that would get closer to "imposing." Sharing about their faith and inviting and welcoming others to join them is not imposing.

Regarding "making anyone feel uncomfortable . . . " well, that is a different thing. We don't control the feels, the emotions, of anyone else. If we have to each be responsible not to "make anyone feel uncomfortable about their own religious beliefs," we would cease to be able to communicate.

More than that, "feeling uncomfortable" is not always a bad thing, imhe. I just spent 3 weeks in Poland on vacation, largely because my daughter is working there for Lockheed - Martin. Never would have went otherwise. But there were so many, many things that made me feel uncomfortable. Going to Auschwitz and Birkenau. Staying in an Airbnb which was formerly the apartment of Polish Jewish atheist science fiction and futurist author Stanislaw Lem, a man who experienced religious and racial persecution in his 20's during World War II. Finding out that more than 6 million Poles, including a million Jews and millions of civilians, were killed in the war.

Rico616, it was indeed long…

Rico616, it was indeed long. But I wanted to let Coach Harbaugh and a number of the prominent players on the team speak for themselves. It is not my place to speak for them. But as I said at the top, this is something that clearly is a priority for them, and I would want to honor that.

I'd love to see the link (to…

I'd love to see the link (to Darrius Clemon's instagram video.) Post it if you have it. I will search as well.