there would have to be some to wash away
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|12 hours 2 min ago||Don't buy this. He's an||
Don't buy this. He's an embattled coach, that's all. If something were up, we'd already know about it here.
|12 hours 5 min ago||MAC fans know what they are.||
MAC fans know what they are. Many have loyalties to bigger teams as well as to their MAC school.
FWIW losing doesn't affect me as it used to; but the possibility of a long, un-ending decline that guts a tradition that has always been important to my family is still very frustrating.
|12 hours 7 min ago||I went to a wedding. Saw a||
I went to a wedding. Saw a few minutes on my WatchESPN app. Was kinda glad that I spent more time listening to the a Tigers game, though I briefly found myself throwing Joe Nathan and Brady Hoke into the same sentences with words like "fire."
I am saddened. I want to care. I want to be excited for football on Saturday. I want to enjoy the sounds and the memories. Right now we face a season of emptiness.
There is a chance I will make it to Michigan in November. Work usually keeps me from traveling in the fall, but I could be in A2 the Saturday of the Maryland game. I used to attend every home game; I haven't attended in 10 years. I could take my two oldest girls, continue a longtime family tradition. Sing the Victors. Show them the commemorative brick my Dad and I got. Talk about how Dad (passed away for some time now) used to take me to games, show them where we used to sit. Watch the drum major do his backbend during the fanfare. See the team take the field. With my children for the first time.
And I'm afraid that much of the experience will be gutted. Morose fans watching a dead-man coach play out the string with players who have nothing left to play for. It's awful.
Fix it or fire it.
|12 hours 40 min ago||Of course it does, don't||
Of course it does, don't overreact. If Michigan goes 7-1 the rest of the way, they will have improved by necessity and beaten a major rival on the road. That's significant.
Don't overreact. Before the season many people casually figured a 4-loss season would be okay, not considering how lousy we'd feel after an unacceptable loss like Saturday. It is a similar mistake to suggest that a real run of success should not change opinions.
We are discouraged because we don't think Hoke can win the games necessary to save his job; the team looks bad and the track record of improvement just isn't there. However, if that improvement unexpectedly happened, people should and would feel differently. A 7-1 closing stretch would include at least one of the following: A marked improvement in the offense, or a completely dominant defense that annihilates all comers. In either case, something would look really good on the field, and a win over a rival on the road would be huge.
Your skepticism of the team's ability to accomplish this is warranted; your doubt that it would change his job prospects is not.
|1 day 8 hours ago||So you didn't look very hard.||
So you didn't look very hard. One page down is the thread suggesting thar Hoke receive a graceful exit. You disagree... Which means your voice would have provided useful counterpoint in a thread that is not even 24 hours old.
|1 day 22 hours ago||His name is suddenly popping||
His name is suddenly popping up, like magic, after an impressive road win.
However, Florida probably gets first dibs, if he's as good as people suddenly think. It's not clear to me that he's an automatic sure thing, though. But if he (or some other hot coaching prospect) is on the table, axing Hoke early could get the ball rolling. But I suspect it will be rolling anyway.
|1 day 22 hours ago||This is a a pretty bad look||
This is a a pretty bad look for the staff. Well-coached teams play well on special teams. Teams that have offensive challenges thrive on good special-teams play and defense to keep games winnable.
Instead, Hoke again declined to learn a new punt strategy in the offseason, and execution is poor, and it changed the complexion of the entire game.
The strongest evidence against Hoke is that the team has never become good at the things he is supposed to help them be good at.
|2 days 21 min ago||He has a 5-star running back,||
He has a 5-star running back, a 4-star quarterback, 4-stars all over the OL, and a 1st-round talent at receiver.
|2 days 22 min ago||I have been disappointed with||
I have been disappointed with the offense. Not clear who deserves most of the blame for it, but since offense was a problem before Nuss came, maybe it's not all his fault. Maybe he wants more spread or tempo, but Hoke won't go for it. Who knows?
|2 days 25 min ago||I agree for the moment--it is||
I agree for the moment--it is theoretically possible for Michigan to achieve its goals this year, and a 9-3 season in which Michigan beats OSU and improves throughout the year (obviously the latter is necessary for the former) would merit another year.
|2 days 31 min ago||Because we're fans. I can||
Because we're fans.
|2 days 35 min ago||Good for you. But in a game||
Good for you.
|2 days 56 min ago||Dude, I might have a chance||
Dude, I might have a chance to attend the Maryland game, first home game I'd make in 10 years... And I'm worried that attendance will be well under 100,000. If Hoke continues to lose, ticket sales will crater. Michigan will be publicly embarrassed. And DB will have no choice but to fire him.
|2 days 23 hours ago||My Kant is rusty, but I'm not||
My Kant is rusty, but I'm not seeing where this applies to what Winston said or how he has even disciplined. Indeed, you yourself suggested that Winston's actions were only a problem because of his previous sexual assault allegation, which seems to contradict the principle of universalizability.
|2 days 23 hours ago||What's the joke? A whole||
What's the joke? A whole bunch of people cared enough about Manziel to avoid drafting him when they had the chance, and honestly they look pretty smart. Winston is dropping because he is a proven risk. Nobody wants to hang the future of the franchise (not to mention their own careers) on a guy who could easily get himself suspended for a chunk of time.
|2 days 23 hours ago||I think it's repugnant||
I think it's repugnant whether one is accused of rape or not. Pretty neatly sexually objectifies women (some of whom doubtlessly in earshot) while removing their own agency from the equation.
The issue is that FSU and other institutions appear to be making judgments in these matters based mostly upon public opinion. Your small portion of that opinion suggests that Winston should sit; that's fine, and I said pretty clearly that I don't care about him playing. I'm not troubled by the punishment, but by the process which brought it about.
The thing is, you're not addressing my point--the point is that we've crossed a pretty serious line when the careers of people are determined not by inquiry or justice, but by the collective anger of a mob. Because, while you may have this issue right, you could get the next issue wrong.
|2 days 23 hours ago||The public firestorm is||
The public firestorm is awfully selective. The mob tends to focus on one or two really public controversies and ignore mountains of other problems. For example, Adrian Peterson is in deep water for injuring two of his children... But he has seven by five mothers. Not even his considerable fortune can fully mitigate the additional challenges those kids face in not having their dad residing permanently in the picture.
So the abuse scandals are the current cause célèbre, and the media outlets fall over themselves to open the thesaurus of outrage, and significant issues are whitewashed.
What offenses should result in the total destruction of one's athletic career? Yeah, nobody is going to weep for Ray Rice if he never plays again after what he did. But do we want to make domestic violence an automatic lifetime ban? What about what AP did? People seem perfectly fine with the idea of him not playing again this year, even many fans in Minnesota. But is that the default penalty? Even for someone who hasn't been convicted of anything?
If that's going to be the standard, fine. But let's put it in writing. Ask the player's union how they like it. Right now people are making things up as they go along, thirsty for blood justice. It's "obvious" that AP should be suspended, but no one seems to have supplied so much as a suggestion of how long. A year? Life? Nobody is taking about this. It's just a litany of anger.
|3 days 38 min ago||I don't really care whether||
I don't really care whether Winston plays--I'm pretty ambivalent about him given the sexual assault allegations. I think wha he said this week is reprehensible, but that it's also exceedingly common amongst people of his age group. So, whatever.
But I am getting uncomfortable with giving the mob veto power over all questions of discipline and justice. Public opinion is important, but it can be skewed or misguided, and it seems that in the past couple of weeks the level of public outrage toward athletes has reached a crescendo that can sweep far less clear-cut situations into its wake.
Yeah, it's easy to say we don't care now, because initially its just abusers getting the treatment. But what happens when the mob shifts focus? It hasn't always been right, you know. Some parts of the mob wanted, for example, Hank Aaron to stop playing before he he could break Babe Ruth's record.
If public outrage is permitted to become the litmus for all matters of discipline, sooner or later it's going to start rendering some seriously unjust verdicts.
|4 days 10 hours ago||I just missed co-working TOP||
I just missed co-working TOP by a year, I think--though I was only set-up/take-down crew. Still got a cool shirt, of course.
|5 days 11 hours ago||2024 and 2027. The seniors||
2024 and 2027.
The seniors in the 2024 game were born during the John Navarre era and are too young to remember Chad Henne, Mike Hart, or Vince Young. The freshmen in the 2027 game were born the year that Tate Forcier brought moxie to Michigan. This is the first season they could have any memory of at all.
Someone old enough to remember the 1997 season will be in their thirties. Someone who played will be in their fifties.
|1 week 4 hours ago||Right. For years the ABC 3:30||
Right. For years the ABC 3:30 time slot was the big featured matchup, and most other games were on ESPN/ESPN2 at noon. There was also a syndicated game at noon that was picked up by local stations. Most prime time games (before ABC started the prime time slot, they were almost never the best game of the day) were SEC, ACC, etc.
BTN changed a lot; so did ABC's move to a big 8pm game.
|1 week 4 hours ago||UMD games (division II) are||
UMD games (division II) are at 6pm until later in the year when cold weather recommends a 1pm start.
|1 week 4 hours ago||Noon games involve setting a||
Noon games involve setting a serious alarm and getting to the stadium tired. Plus: the Wiard's Donuts made sense because when you got there it was still breakfast time anyway.
As we moved into tailgating our noon-game tailgates involved breakfast. Had some good ones, too. You had to at 9am.
|1 week 10 hours ago||OK, this is good to know.||
OK, this is good to know.
|1 week 10 hours ago||Why is this unexpected? It||
Why is this unexpected? It was a blah game against a blah team, the kind of adequate but uninspiring squash match Michigan has produced for decades against MAC teams. The win and the boxscore are at most exactly what people expect.
There is nothing Michigan could do to wash out the nasty taste in our mouths from last week, so why pretend otherwise? Things are grim.
That doesn't mean they can't get better. There is real potential for growth on this team, and one would expect a decent season to play out this way. And, as sullen as you may read Brian to be here, he was startlingly un-vicious in his UFR postscripts. He, like many of us, is frustrated but wants to see the season play out.
|1 week 11 hours ago||It was hard in the Borges era||
It was hard in the Borges era because of the poor OL performance and because Borges philosophies have a tight margin for error.
It was hard in the Lloyd era because Michigan played down to opponents. They would doggedly run into stacked fronts until it was absolutely necessary to pass. Then, when behind, the QBs would set school passing records. Not infrequently in losses.
Football is actually pretty hard. It's easy to forget that the top programs in the country at any given time have some pretty hard moments of their own. Even the mighty Saban Alabama dynasty has some pretty tough games and some dark moments. Remember Saban's stunned rambling into his headset after the Davis return last year?
In truth, it never gets easy. But it will look easier if the OL starts delivering on its recruiting promise.
|1 week 11 hours ago||I (and, I think, many others)||
I (and, I think, many others) were less upset about that loss than some of our wins. If Michigan hadn't gagged in games against all those other teams, it wouldn't be a big deal at all.
|1 week 11 hours ago||Concur. Michigan has more||
Concur. Michigan has more talent than Utah. A loss is inexcusable and I don't care how well they're playing.
|1 week 11 hours ago||The stuff about in-game||
The stuff about in-game experience is troubling.
Obviously the piped-in music has been happening for a while now. I have mostly kept quiet about this, because I loathe piped in music at all sports more than virtually anybody and don't trust myself to be balanced about it.
But no cowbell? No "Go Blue" cross-stadium cheer? No traveling mini-band?
These are essential pieces of the fabric of attending Michigan games. Things you don't get on tv at home. They are part of what separates college football, and particularly Michigan football, from other events.
Or, at least, they were.
And if that is disappearing, it is awful. And it is Dave Brandon's fault.
|1 week 2 days ago||The best way to describe it||
The best way to describe it is that they count all of the people who are licensed to be present in the facility.