at least it's not just us?
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|2 weeks 1 day ago||I think we HAVE better||
I think we HAVE better athletes on the defense, they're just young and undeveloped. Also, from what I understand about LB play, much of their performance is tied to the play of the DL. If the DL is able to tie up the opposing OL and keep them off the LB's, the LB's a much more productive. Against teams with good OL's, like OSU, the LB's get "swallowed up" (as Ray said) by a very experienced OL.
I think our LB corp is good, I just think that we don't have a guy on the DL that commands a double team and can keep his guy(s) off the LB's.
|2 weeks 1 day ago||This team seems to go stone||
This team seems to go stone cold shooting too often.
|2 weeks 2 days ago||What I am sick of is people||
What I am sick of is people cherry-picking one team and saying, "look, they're young and they've done XYZ." So what? Every team, every player, and every system is different. After taking a quick glance at Auburn's 2 deep roster this is what I found:
TE: JR, JR, SO
So, you're right, they're young. But, the thing that stands out to me the most is that they have a JR Center, only one RS FR starting, experienced TE's and NO FR starting -- very different than Michigan's profile.
The OL is a problem because they're young, and because the roster lacks depth. People forget that having a RS FR starting isn't necessarily an issue if, and only if, that RS FR was able to beat out more experienced players. I think much of Michigan's OL last year, and this year, is "starting by default" because the depth and competition just wasn't there.
Further, as much as I love and respect Fitz, I think his struggles compounded the OL issues. He wasn't hitting the hole, and even against OSU when he seemed to have a big running lane on those screens, he hesitated and got stopped short of the first down/end zone.
I just think that Michigan fans need to calm down, understand that this season was always going to be the worst of the rebuild/transition, and that the ceiling is very very high for the program. We're back to recruiting at our historically elite level, we're adding much needed depth, but there was always going to be a "lull year" in which things just didn't come together. To me, the most exciting thing about the program is, despite the struggles this season, the never quit attitude, and the way that they hang together through adversity. I am a firm believer in the fact that champions are forged through adversity -- i.e., they need to struggle first to build championship character.
|2 weeks 2 days ago||How do you quantify an||
How do you quantify an assertions like this? I'd be willing to bet that even the most elite coaching staff (whomever that is) would tell you that experience, above all other factors, determines OL success. Further, they'd tell you that when your OL is young, don't expect much consistency on offense. Elite coaches look their best when they have a steady pipeline of players flowing through the program. When that pipeline breaks down, like Michigan's did, the team will struggle despite elite coaching.
I find it so indicative of our instant gratification throw away society that so many are asking for change. Y'all are sure that there is someone better out there, that all this talk of youth is a bullshit excuse made up by people who accept mediocrity, and if we could just get a real winner in there thugs would turn around. Football is played by players, not coaches. Yes coaching has a significant impact on performance, but at the end if the day player must execute, and young players tend to be inconsistent in their execution. Pretty simple. Michigan has 62% of its roster in their 1st or 2nd year. That is EXCEEDINGLY young, and people wonder why the season was marked by inconsistency.
|2 weeks 2 days ago||Calm down Beavis! If you||
Calm down Beavis!
If you really set your mind to it, I don't think you could sound more like a spoiled brat who didn't get the toy he wanted from Santa. All you need to add is a nice floor flopping tantrum and you've got it nailed.
You've been patient huh? Ok then, since Danwillhor says he's been patient fuck everyone! He's mad and better get what he wants, and that is for pound of flesh in compensation for ... Wait what are they compensating you for? Oh yeah, I almost forgot, because you've been patient and all their excuses are bullshit and Borges is a moron ... Did I miss anything?
Good lord I hope you're 12 years old. If not, you need to take some time off from Michigan football as obviously you have zero perspective on where it was, as where it heading.
Oh, and look up the word, "patience." I think the definition will be enlightening.
|2 weeks 2 days ago||Hilariously idiotic? C'mon||
Hilariously idiotic? C'mon man. It's so obvious when watching Team 134 it's idiotic that people aren't more sympathetic of the OC near impossible charge. The OL blockes, Michigan's offense thrives. They do not, its a debacle. Simple.
|2 weeks 2 days ago||I still cannot understand why||
I still cannot understand why so many of you guys are so pessimistic. This was always going to be the worst year of the rebuild. Hoke and Brandon knew it and recruited a boat load of OLinemen in response. The young OL is bound to improve, thus opening up an improved rushing attack from two or three very attractive RBs and DG should improve and flourish with a better OL. Borges has shown what his offenses can do when the OL blocks and the QB isn't tossing INTs. Just chill out.
|2 weeks 2 days ago||I love all the negative||
I love all the negative predictions now that it appears Borges will be staying. I wish I had such foresight.
Can any of you soothsayers tell me what the ES is going to do with a double POMO tomorrow? I'm thinking its got to levitate, right? But then, I don't have the ESPN thing going on like yous guys do.
|2 weeks 2 days ago||"With this line regressing||
"With this line regressing throughout the season, I find it hard to believe that spring and fall practices are going to yield a very good line next year."
Your statement, IMO, displays a lack of understanding about the developmental process of athletes. First, regression is not uncommon, and in fact, is often likely when you have players in over their heads experientially. They're trying to draw on past experiences and thinking their way through their execution. The problem is, that those experiences (for the most part) were against high school players whom they dominated, and thinking is not reacting.
Further, sping and fall practice is EXACTLY where the largest leaps in player development take place. There is no game planning, and detailed attention is spent on individual technique. Then, when they draw on past experiences, the experiences (even if they were failures) will be against college players, and they will be able to react instead of think their way through their assignments.
Lastly, this goes back to the OP somewhat. The long term benefit of running the system, despite poor results, will be that the players won't be thinking as much because they've run that scheme all season. When their technique improves, which it will, they're going to gell into a much more cohesive and effective unit.
I think many Michigan fans are just seeing the whole situation as "glass half empty." I suppose I understand why, but at the same time, I think it's a bit foolish to assume that playing time and continued coaching is going to yield worse results.
|2 weeks 3 days ago||I...eh...love you too Reader||
I...eh...love you too Reader (LOL),
I miss read what you wrote above. I thought you said 100%, but you actually said, #1 -- my bad.
I think the best way to say it is that BLOCKING was the issue this season.
Others have touched on the issue of the INT's early in the season, and I don't think it can be emphasized enough. All one has to do is go back to the Akron, UConn, and PSU games and see the effect of those INT's on DG's moral, but more importantly, the moral of the opposition. Several of those INT's/turnovers, went for defensive TD's, and most resulted in eventual scores, or at the least a flip in field position. Further, the didn't result in points or flipped field position for Michigan. I realize that is a bit obvious and elementary, but I don't think most people who are so anti-Borges really full understand how they limit what an OC is willing to do. Now, add to that a young OL that is having trouble executing, and you have what we saw this season.
Amazingly, with all the offensive ineptitude, DG and Gallon broke Michigan and B10 records, and one of those was against OSU -- pretty impressive. With even an average OL, this offense is going to be very powerful. I think next season the OL will be average at the beginning of the season, and be considered above average/good by season's end. With Green and Smith continuing to develop in the off season, DG getting more coaching and development, I think we're going to see a night and day reversal next season.
|2 weeks 3 days ago||I agree with Reader71 in that||
I agree with Reader71 in that what we saw (or didn't see) from Michigan's offense this season was almost 100% about the OL, it's youth, and it's near inability to execute.
What we saw in The Game was a young OL that "turned the corner," and exectuted well enough to afford the OC some flow and an expansion of the play book because they stayed (for the most part) ahead of the chains.
I think this season's struggles, although frustrating, are going to pay off next year and beyond when Michigan's OL has 100+ collective starts.
|2 weeks 3 days ago||"How do we not roll out||
"How do we not roll out Gardner as the base portion of the 2 pt. conversion anyway?"
Did you see how hobbled Gardner was at the end of the game? I think that factor alone was what determined Hoke's decision to go for the two point conversion. As we've seen all season, in the red-zone the run/pass option of Devin on the edge (and even in the middle) is very hard to defend.
Monday morning QB's are amazing in their willingness to ignore the obvious to suit their narrative.
|2 weeks 4 days ago||Another great game, and||
Another great game, and another crazy finish. I really like seeing Saban do something stupid that cost his team the game. It's hubris at its finest. Arrogant ass uses his larger than life status to get one tick on the clock -- which was bullshit to begin with -- and he uses that one second to shoot himself in the dick.
|2 weeks 4 days ago||It was just so nice see the||
It was just so nice see the coach that everyone thinks is the greatest ever make a call that completely fucks his team. There is a 0% chance of a make from 57 yards, and that brings in the flukes like a block-return or a miss-return. A hail mary would have been better, or just take a freakin' knee and play in OT. Fucking stupid.
|2 weeks 4 days ago||That was a case of,||
That was a case of, "becareful what you wish for" with that one second going back on. It fucked Bama in the end. It's nice to see even the great Nick Saban make some bone-headed coaching calls -- every the great ones make mistakes. I am 100% certain that if they go to OT Bama wins.
|2 weeks 4 days ago||Talk about a boneheaded||
Talk about a boneheaded coaching call. No chance of making that, only chance is for a block-return or a miss return. Fucking STUPID!
|2 weeks 4 days ago||110% support for the two||
110% support for the two point conversion call. There were 4 factors that went into the call, IMO:
1) Gardner was maybe at 50% at best
Could we have won in OT, of course. But, I think it was more likely that Ohio was going to score, and our offense was going to sputter because of Gardner's injury. Without Gibbons your OT scheme is totally crippled if you do manage to stop them. I really hope it's true that he asked the seniors what they wanted to do. I love that idea, it's their team after all.
If they make the 2 point conversion, and win, that goes down in the lore of The Game as the greatest call of all time. Too bad it didn't work out.
|2 weeks 4 days ago||Something clicked today on||
Something clicked today on offense, obviously. I am not sure what it was. It might have been the fact that it was The Game, but the execution was by far and away the offense has displayed since the ND. To my eye, it was mostly the OL actually blocking and giving the RB's some creases to run through. Ohio's defense had to respect the run, and the play-action passes were that much more effective.
All season long Borges has been preaching execution and the effect it has on play calling. It doesn't take much, just a decent runs on first down, and the flow of the offense is totally different. I thought Borges called some great screens, especially late in the game. I've been saying for a while now that I think the coaching staff took a dogmatic approach to play-calling and scheme in the hope that the young OL would finally "get it" against a good defense. Today, I think they "got it" and hopefully have turned the corner against a very good OSU defense, and I think the staff's willingness to keep grinding payed off.
This game went about how I expected, except our offense kept pace with their offense. I was very dissappointed in the defense's inability to stop their run, but then, with that OL (notice they had 100+ collective starts?), Braxton, and of course Hyde, it's not surprising.
I've very proud of Team 134, and I think the staff did a great job getting them ready to play.
|2 weeks 5 days ago||You deemed this post so||
You deemed this post so utterly profound that you felt it appropriate to simply cut and paste it into a new thread? You had no clue what you were talking about the first time you posted it, and the second, well now just add lazy to the growing list of negatives.
Ironically, it's the mental toughness and the competitive attitude that has been a positive for this team despite the tough season. Teams that lack what you claim they lack don't come back against NW the way they did. They hang their head and pout -- probably like you'd do. While I am not saying Borges is the best, maybe if the player did THEIR jobs better, i.e., execute, they'd have a better record. We all seen team do it from time to time, and the coaches more so. Putting all the failure on the coaches is ignorant. You bitch about play calling but if the players execute better and more consistently, a huge percentage of those plays people think are crap are actually ok, and some might even be great. One play sets up another, a one two punch if you will, but if your first punch misses and your second punch misses -- what then?
|2 weeks 5 days ago||You've got to remember that||
You've got to remember that being "predictable" on offense isn't necessarily a bad thing if your offense can execute those plays well enough to force the opposing defense to over commit to stop it. It is upon that over commitment that unpredictability becomes important, and lethal. You, with all your lack of expertise, being able to call the play is meaningless because that is only a negative to you when the play is blown up -- which takes us right back full circle to execution.
Michigan's problem is a near complete lack of execution on its base plays that are designed to make the defense over commit. Michigan cannot punish opponents for over committing because they cannot block well enough to give DG time to throw. With even an average OL Michigan would ground and pound until the opposing defenders got nosey to stop the run, then go over the top with PA. All those runs that people think are horrible calls are set up plays, but the set ups aren't executed and thus don't work. It's a viscous cycle that most certainly DOES have to do with a young interior OL.
|2 weeks 6 days ago||Idiots are sprouting up||
Idiots are sprouting up everywhere!
My favorite asinine assertion is that, "DG most likely won't get any better next year anyway." Yeah because NO QB ever improves after their first full season as a starter behind a young OL. Never ever has a kid actually learned from his mistakes and come back for his 5th year as a better QB. Might as well just ship him off to the glue factory!
God bless America so many of the posters in here a pathetic fatalistic wusses. How about the guy that said he hopes the offense plays so bad Hoke will have no choice to fire Bores, then later says that he hope we win. C'mon man!
|3 weeks 15 hours ago||This "more success with less"||
This "more success with less" meme is bullshit. Name one, and I'll bet that the roster he inherited looked nothing like the roster Hoke inherited.
I've stated my support for RR, based on the bare cupboard Carr handed over (20+ scholarships short), repeatedly. To me, the problem with RR was that he was doing very little to rebuild that roster deficiency, and actually made it worse when it came to the OL. Hoke addressed that need immediately, and locked in two elite OL classes. This is at the heart of the "not enough time" issue. There years (really two recruiting wise) is not enough when the coach is restocking the roster like Hoke is, but his players, in particular the OL, have not become upperclassmen.
Hoke's most successful season came via a group of upperclassmen, from Carr's last class, that lead the team and Denard's magic. The problem is the talent and depth (which was still an issue then) fell precipitously off a cliff after that. Which, again, is why we're struggling this season more than last. As I have said over and over. There was always going to be a "lull year" in which the small and relatively weak classes from RR years bite Michigan in the ass. It's simply the cycles of college football. Every program goes from being veteran to young, then to veteran again. The trick is to make sure that the whole team doesn't become young all at once. That is the retention issue, and the ability to redshirt, that is so important in maintaining long term success. RR had a depleted roster, so he didn't RS many guys, and then he had retention issues as well.
Look at the number Ron Utah posted. Look at the comparatively small size of our 4th and 5th year players. That is the issue, and those seeds were sown on RR's watch, just like the seeds of RR's similar lack were sown on Carr watch. Programs that remain successful year in and year out do so by maintaining and cultivating their recruiting pipeline. Michigan's broke, and Hoke is now mending it.
|3 weeks 16 hours ago||So again, throw out the fact||
So again, throw out the fact that doesn't suit your narrative. 12-1 and MAC Coach of the Year is pretty good.
Michigan is not going down the tubes. Michigan is rebuilding from the neglect and mismanagement of the previous two regimes. Rebuilding takes time, especially when the biggest issue is a near complete lack of depth on the OL.
Don't worry I won't cry to you. The real question is whether your man enough to admit you're wrong when Hoke's teams turn the corner and start kicking ass.
You're just bitter, and I'm sure you're a joy to be around. Every word you write in here is hateful and displays your piss poor attitude. You must be a fucking all world employee.
|3 weeks 16 hours ago||Purple Stuff, You really are||
You really are a miserable bastard. Seriously, you just drone on and on about Hoke's lack of a winning record. It's like you don't understand where BSU and SDSU were when he took over, where he took them, and why he his record is under .500. You've latched on to something and won't let go. It's like you were up for the job, had a better overall record, but didn't get the job and are now obsessed. He has a winning record at Michigan. GET OVER IT DUDE!
|3 weeks 17 hours ago||Welcome to the board! I, for||
Welcome to the board! I, for one, have long been waiting for a poster to come along with such brilliant insight and who adds so much to the discussion. Party on Wayne!
|3 weeks 18 hours ago||How is Michigan being "stuck||
How is Michigan being "stuck in the past?" Because they've chosen not to run a spread offense?
Personally, I think all teams going forward are going to be multiple teams with both MANBALL and spread elements. But, IMO, you build a scheme from the MANBALL side first, then introduce spread elements, not the other way around.
|3 weeks 19 hours ago||Brandon, because of his||
Brandon, because of his experience as a Michigan player and as AD, understands the situation that Michigan is in more than anyone. He knows where Michigan was when he took over the AD's position, and he knows where Michigan was at the end of the Carr tenure.
The most important sentence in his quote is, "It's about building a program." Meaning, Michigan isn't there yet. It's one thing to take over for a coach who had all the tools at his disposal, like Zook at Florida, but just never seemed to get over the hump. That is not Michigan. As I've said elsewhere, Michigan was a shell of its former self, despite what many people refused to believe. Hoke was brought in to rebuild the program, and doing anything disrupt that process now could be send Michigan into a tail spin that would take EVEN LONGER to recover from.
Young, inexperienced players who start prematurely due to roster/depth issues don't stay young and inexperienced for long. In time, they become mature and HIGHLY experienced. Then, the young guys that you have on the roster can redshirt, develop normally, and play when it is their turn, and not be pressed into service.
|3 weeks 20 hours ago||It is my firm belief that the||
It is my firm belief that the Grand Old Chateaux that is Michigan football was rotting and in need of rennovation in 2005. It wasn't, and it was allowed to fester until 2008. By that time, however, the Grand Old Chateaux was rotten to the core and need more than rennovation, it needed to be razed the ground and rebuilt. Unfortunately, the GC (RR) they hired didn't have the complete support for the changes he wanted to make, and he was more of finish-out guy, not a guy that was going to be able to reframe the building -- in the end, he didn't do much to address the structural issues with the building (i.e., roster depth) and was fired.
A bit before the previous GC was fired, a new superintendant (AD) was hired. He came in and immediately identified the deep structural issues, and hired a new GC (Hoke) who was going to take the building down to its foundation, reframe it, and get it back to its historical glory as structure wise (roster).
I don't think most Michigan fans understand just how rotten the structure had become. They figuratively come to the (re)construction site and want to see the media room, the formal dining room, and the master bed room. They say, "you've have three years to complete them, they should be ready by now..." But the GC has just now got the framing back up.
When people try to compare other coaches in their 3rd year, or other programs with young OL, they're not taking into account the complete picture of just hoa big a hole Michigan was in. It was a deep dark hole, and IMO, it is a shame that it ever got to that point. But, it did, and it's going to take time to rebuild the chateaux.
|3 weeks 21 hours ago||Why is inexperienced players||
Why is inexperienced players not executing and blowing up plays considered, "no real answers?"
I think he's being very candid with his explanation of the problem. Young players making mistakes. They correct one, and another pops up. They correct one player, and another player does something to blow up a play. I think his point about player doing something wrong that they've never seen in practice is very telling. That's why coaches don't like starting young players, especially in the interior OL.
|3 weeks 1 day ago||So Glasgow, Mags, Kalis,||
So Glasgow, Mags, Kalis, Bosch, Miller, et. al., are going to pull a Benjamin Button and age in reverse?