I'm aware of what happens during the game. Playing and breaking down tape have led me to have a firm understanding of the dirt that goes on during the game.
Fact of the matter is this ... new rules are in place and said rules are being evaluated, and apparently suspensions are being doled out.
Dude punched an opponent, just because other things happen during the course of the game doesn't make Mouton's actions any better. Justifying someone's wrongs just because other's also make similar mistakes is adolescent at best.
If everyone else jumps off a bridge ..... /cliche
So leading with your head and hitting your opponent about the helmet (read: personal foul) shouldn't be a suspendable offense? The NFL fines and suspends people for this all the time and the Big Ten has stated they will start suspending people for this offense, whether it's flagged on the field or not.
http://www.elevenwarriors.com/2009/08/jay-valai-might-have-to-slow-down…
Justifying Mouton's actions as not being suspendable because it's equal to the Reynolds suspension is bogus as well.
Fact of the matter is, it's a suspendable offense and it would have looked a lot better on Rich to have done it himself; hell, it's only EMU coming down the street anyway.
Too early to truly upgrade or downgrade the Bucks. Tressel kicks the field goal to go up 18 and the game is done IMO.
Don't forget, the Buckeyes never trailed and lead by as many as 15 with 6:00 to go in the 4th. It's not exactly like Navy is N. Iowa or any other FCS team.
I do, however, think, teams that can operate a run-based spread, ala Michigan, will implement some of these wrinkles against the Buckeyes.
It was still a poor move by the coaching staff. TP had just taken them down for a TD and the offense was rolling, they never were the same after the Bauserman series.
Although I do agree that while a downgrade he isn't an unqualified backup.
Word is commentary out of Columbus will be coming soon - complete with a video from Kurt Coleman on what a typical week of practice and football related activities is for him, a senior captain.
The NCAA's policies are outdated and archaic, however, the premise of the student-athlete is still the end-all-be-all of the institution. If it were not we would not be inundated with numerous commercials on Saturdays saying something to the effect that, most NCAA athletes are going professional in something other than sports.
I would hate to see Michigan sanctioned for this, as I truly believe that this problem isn't exclusive to this program (and one is pretty naive to suggest otherwise). However, if the NCAA is to get involved I expect them to wholeheartedly defend their stance of the student-athlete; with Michigan being the culprit in this instance it sends the message loud and clear - this overzealous use of practice and mandatory time being dedicated to sport will not be tolerated even at the winningest program.
Just my two cents on the subject.
Graham was injured early into his junior year and has been picking up offers quickly after camping. Expect his 'star' to rise here shortly.
With that said, I expect Miller to be in the 2011 fold and likely be the starter in 2012, if not sooner.
Simple, the NCAA doesn't award a National Championship in FBS. The BCS is a separate entity and before that National Champions determined by the polls were also separate of the NCAA. Simply put, the NCAA has no authority to vacate those titles.
They can, however, vacate win totals because they are NCAA sanctioned games.
I wasn't picking a fight with anyone until your small minded and asinine commentary was directed towards me.
I like this blog, I like Brian's work, and being a blogger myself I find inspiration through his writing, humor, and wit. So I won't be going anywhere anytime soon. In fact, since I know it irks you so .... I may just become a little more active around here.
for proving that level headed people do exist in this rivalry!
Food for thought .. if just 1% of people attending the football game act like an asshole in Ann Arbor or Columbus you're talking over 1,000 people. It probably isn't hard to find an asshole.
Obviously if you include those who come to town to tailgate, watch at the bars, hang out, it is likely that number swells closer to double the actual game attendance. Now it's likely very easy to find an asshole somewhere on game day.
And me thinks that 1% isn't even the proper percentage to be using but as you can see a very small percentage can spoil the reputation of many - very easily.
Like I said, I generally stay out of these argument because fools like you actually believe that there is a greater in flux on jackass Ohio State fans then there are Michigan fans, or State fans, or Penn State fans, Wisconsin fans etc., so on, and so forth.
Give me a break.
No, I personally haven't suffered through those things. But we've all heard the stories:
Pennies in marshmallows
Batteries
drinks poured on people
empty cans and bottles
Listen, I have no issue with having pride in your team but to effortlessly believe that your school/team/fans aren't beyond reproach on this matter. Your behavior lends to the statement made by legendary MSU coach Duffy Daugherty when he said A.A. stood for arrogant assholes. Its nice to see that 40+ years later you yourself haven't broken the mold. Which is a shame because there are so many level headed and clear minded individuals here who are intelligent posters who have a fricken clue as to what the landscape is out there.
Finally, I am not proud of the asshole behavior that happens in Columbus; I am also not in denial about it. The depth as to which it happens and the actions as to which are taken don't make it anymore right or wrong - assholes are assholes and you sir should have little to no issue determining who those assholes are seeing as how you are one yourself.
I'd rather be the thorn in your side for a while. Seems more fun this way.
So, actually, reading comprehension is actually a strong suit of mine as I made reference to an appearance that you had an understanding. You then appeared to blow that understanding with your 'dolt' comment.
And stop standing by the premise that Michigan fan doesn't partake in shitty behavior as well. I was pushed around back in the 90s walking out of Michigan Stadium after another abysmal loss by my Buckeyes. For reference I wasn't even old enough to drive yet. My dad, on that same trip to AA, had coffee poured on him. We had things thrown at us ... trust me, buddy, it happens in Ann Arbor too.
The fact of the matter is this ... every school has them ... asshole fans that is (seeing as how your comprehension skills aren't up to the highest of standards I figured I better spell that out, you're welcome) and those types of fans aren't going to go away anytime soon.
Now suck it up Susan and get over yourself .. we'll see you on the field in November and see which team's fans will need to imbibe in more beverages than the other.
I'm going to guess that reading comprehension isn't your strong suit. You may want to take some remedial courses at your nearby community college to catch up there sunshine.
For a second it seemed like you got it but your closing crack back clearly proved you did not - OSU and it's fans were likely to have not been affiliated with this advertisement. Get over it.
It was and will be a brilliant marketing move. I would count on seeing more in other cities.
It would seem like you're under the assumption that an Ohio State fan/alum/other is responsible for this ad; it is entirely possible that someone completely unaffiliated with the university and/or it's athletics was responsible for this advertisement.
It would seem likely to me that this is quality advertisting in a sports crazed town. After all, what are they supposed to target ... the Blue Jackets ... do they even have a rival?
This advertisment isn't out of bounds or even crossing the line. Its a jab taken by a corporation which is unaffiliated with the university itself. One might expect that during baseball season one may find a billboard similar to this in Detroit poking at the Indians, or, heck, maybe near the Joe yet this season poking at the Leafs or Hawks.
Its a part of sports. Sorry you were targeted (well, thats disingenuous) but the fact remains that this was quality advertising that is sure to get the attention of many (check this site for example).
Lacking another true rivalry can result in such behavior. And for any OSU fan who squawks about Illibuck and the Illini they're just full of it.
But at the same time ... the first day on the job RichRod is given a 'Beat Ohio State' button. While it may not be the 'only' rivalry .. it is certain the biggest. Furthermore a win in The Game would have produced a 4-8 season and how much more sweet would your season have been had it come with a victory of the hated rival from that state down south?
I also think, for some, that having lived through 2-10-1 the living it up right now is a means in which to enjoy being on top of the rivalry right now. These things are certainly cyclical and fortunes will change .. any rational human being will understand that.
I generally curb my comments in terms of Michigan - Ohio State related material on this site seeing as how I am a Buckeye fan who regularly reads this site and I wish not to ruffle feathers but you all need to get over this ...
To try and portray Michigan fans as elitist in this sense is beyond ridiculous. During the Cooper years it was near impossible to go anywhere without hearing about it; hell 2-10-1 is still heard in many circles. I grew up in Michigan it was unavoidable.
The website referenced is BuckeyeXtra.com, a site dedicated to OSU sports operated and managed by the Columbus Dispatch. I happen to be one of the fan bloggers during the football season on that site. So what if the paper runs a counter on how long its been since OSU lost to Michigan in football.
It is a rivalry; love it, revel in it, enjoy it. You don't think other rivalry's have fun at the expense of the other? Yankees-Sox? Gators-Dawgs? Spurrier is still one of the best and his you can't spell Citrus without UT is still one of the best cracks ever.
Trust me, Michigan fan, you're not sitting on top of a mountain looking down on the rest of us futile imbeciles. There's plenty of egg on your face too - those without sin should cast the first stone ... or those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones...
Not even being a M fan I really like the idea of the 'terrible towel'.
I do think the 'x' out thing is getting old. I mean Penn State seems to have it down but Ohio State tried this during the game against Penn State and called it Scarlet Fever ... just doesn't look the same and I am not convinced there is a real psychological effect.
Penn State made the mistake of playing a three deep zone against USC and Sanchez made them pay for it. If you're going up against a team with those types of weapons you need to play high risk/high reward defense and man up and blitz in order to achieve pressure. If you're going to sit back on your heels you're going to eat it.
But I think the statistical analysis is too arbitrary in that it assumes lack of injuries, busts, continued improvement (not plateauing), other issues.
Now if none of the above happen, yikes.
I can't speak for Scout because I don't follow Scout, however, Rivals.com team total isn't derived from their star rankings (entirely). The total points a team earned is largely derived from fulfilling their needs (as perceived by Rivals.com).
Obviously yes the higher star average fulfilling that need is going to play a role into that.
But my argument is largely this ... the difference in a three star prospect can't be so overwhelming that we can find any discernible evidence to suggest that by and large 5.7 rated 3* prospects are better than 5.5 rated 3* prospects.
There is a lack of evidence to back that up unlike how there is evidence to suppor that recruiting rankings are accurate in determining the success of becoming an NFL draftee (note that the study doesn't indicate potential NFL success).
Clearly it has been proven that star rankings are likely indicators of future success. Any buffoon who takes the time and energy to consume college football came to that conclusion a long, long time ago. Thanks for reiterating the painfully obvious.
My argument, on the other hand, was indicating that there is no significant difference between a 5.7 graded 3-star prospect than there is a 5.5 graded 3-star prospect. A 3-star is a 3-star in spite of where they lay on the spectrum of grade.
Even the article you just pointed me to indicates that there is little to no interest in deciphering the difference between a 5.7 and a 5.5 3-star prospect.
Therefore it would seem to me that the argument that said 3-star prospect is a better 3-star prospect than the other is a moot point; they are in fact both 3-star prospects and this is largely the only aspect that truly matters.
Seems clear to me then that Kramer was not concussed.
My guess is to that Painter doesn't put Kramer back in the game if he doesn't receive medical clearance to do so. No coach in this day and age is going to be naive enough to believe he could make such a mistake. Something catastrophic happens to Kramer in those circumstances and next thing you know it's no longer Mackey Arena its Kramer Arena.
You get the idea.
I'm not implying that Guiton is a big time prospect and on another thread I directly stated that this is precisely a move at depth.
However, I respectfully disagree regarding the breakdown of the star ratings ... in fact I find it a futile process that shouldn't even be released. Either the kid is a three star, or a four star, or a two star, or what be it.
You are right there are as equal many flops as there are successes from the two and three star range.
But does anyone have the time to dive into the theory that a 5.5 rated three star is marginally less qualified at a position than a 5.7 three star from the same position?
I don't have that kind of time but I bet you'd find it's largely a wash.
Debating the merits between a Rivals.com rated 3-star is futile at best.
Feagin was a 3 star athlete with a 5.7 rating (just shy of 4 stars) while Guiton is a 3 star quarterback with a 5.5 rating (just above 2 star designation).
This is like implying that all 6.0 rated four star prospects are essentially 5 star prospects.
No, there are designations for reasons. A 3 star prospect is a 3 star prospect.
And to give you an idea of how well some Ohio State 3 star prospects have performed recently I give you:
AJ Hawk
Santonio Holmes
Malcolm Jenkins
James Laurinaitis
Todd Boeckman
And besides ... no one can blame anyone for sticking with their original committments .... with Pryor on the roster you know where you're going to be and if you want to play and compete early signing in the 2009 Ohio State class isn't the place to be signing.
That's called common sense.
This was a move for depth. After Tajh Boyd declined the offer they jumped on a local kid who had just reneged on his offer to Toledo for Miami - he stuck with Miami.
The apparently found this kid in Texas on a Tuesday, flew home with video on the kid, called and offered on Wednesday.
Its a stretch but considering the soon to be 3rd string QB was about to Orhian Johnson who played QB in high school but was recruited as a DB at the collegiate level things weren't looking bright.
Hindsight being 20-20 I could have handled my first diary entry a little bit better. Being a Buckeye fan and a Spartan alum its hard enough even coming on here and discussing anything. Only reason I do is having grown up in Michigan being a Buckeye. This is natural for me. I really just want to attempt to get in a dig against our rival and ask a pertinent question.
Novak suspension came out today. It is what it is. I disagree with a one-game suspension but considering precedent its to be expected.
Also, an article in the Freep today containing an interview with Tropp. IMO he seems a bit disingenuous.
No anger.
That angle (or my terrible computer whilst at work) makes it difficult to determine Hill's 'sell' in terms of the contact.
Regardless bad move, deliberate, and deserving of a multigame sit down.
Perhaps.
But again, I should have left the Kampfer FYS thing out of it because they're not necessarily comparative.
To the relevancy of the question a deliberate elbow to the face of an opposing player during a 'dead ball' period justifies what type of suspension?
The reason I bring it up at all is the difference in crowd reaction ... has nothing to do with the assault on Kampfer other than that being the basis for the M fan reaction at Yost.
Strike that from the conversation all together if you like ... the real question of the matter is what does novak deserve? I think 2+ games due to its deliberate delivery.
It was clearly an event that Novak decided he was going to do at that time and followed through with it. It was very deliberate and easily could have ended PJ Hill's season had say it broken his nose, an occipital bone, or caused any other damage.
Elbows happen in basketball yes. Deliberate elbows to the face during a 'dead ball' period however do not.
I kind of though the Tech foul Beilein got in the first half may have been that spark his team needed. He doesn't strike me as the feisty type that is going to get T'd up too often (a la Izzo).
It is stupid but it was a rare ocassion in my life where I have seen the Buckeye faithful not take a potentially poor situation and make it worse.
Ever since the game with Texas 2005 I think they've calmed down a mite in Cbus ... its just good to see examples of that.
Thanks. I haven't heard of this kid. But OSU is going to need a QB in the 2010 class regardless if there is an offer on the table for this kid or not.
Besides, he looks like a sure fire redshirt candidate upon arrival - quite smallish.
You got a link on that? My understanding of the NCAA rules indicates that 2011 recruits cannot be offered until the summer or fall of 2009.
2010 classes are just being figured out and offered.
No, actually the reason I am holding on to this argument so strong is I was personally assaulted outside of Michigan Stadium at the age of 16 by a very older, grown man, who should have known better.
It happens everywhere ... every campus. There are idiots everywhere. I've heard the nasty stories from every campus that people have set foot on ... from what I heard nobody has a thing on Wisconsin.
FWIW, I never got my degree from State. I left for home after meeting my wife while home for the summer and got my degree from a different university.
My allegiance for the Spartans or the Buckeyes has little to do with this argument buddy. The fact of the matter is what is wrong is wrong. Trangressions at MSU, OSU, PSU, or UM are wrong regardless of the color of the shirt I am wearing and the allegiance in my heart. I can see that as clear as day.
And, yeah, I hate the asshole chant that the Spartans seem to employ at every home event. Never particpated in it and I despise it. I've also told Buckeye fans to chill when I have seen them act up ...
Doesn't make me better than anyone else .. it's just doing the right thing.
Your indicating that at MSU and OSU that they tip over cars belonging to opponents fans and that their actions are far different from what happens at UM? You're kidding yourself.
For one, I attended MSU. No, it wasn't because I couldn't get into UM but because they had the better program for what I was going into at that time. I have never bore witness to car tipping, throwing of items at opposing fans, etc. I did happen to witness the general 'give em heck' that I have experienced at every single college campus I have ever set foot on.
I've been to Columbus for a lot of sporting events and grew up a Buckeye fan (so what am I doing on this blog .. I live in Michigan, write a blog for the Columbus Dispatch during football season, and have tremendous respect for Brian, so I come and read and on occasion get involved in commenting). They're certainly not the best in Columbus and I have seen things I was not proud of. I have, however, never witnessed an assault at Ohio State, a car being tipped over, or otherwise. I'm sure it has happened, just as I am sure it has happened at nearly every other college campus in this nation, world, or otherwise.
I don't have a recommendation on what the reaction should have been other than to say it shouldn't have been that (I did however say that maybe the FY chant directed specifially at the offending players as opposed to the institution as whole may have been a better choice). Not if you plan to hold yourself to a higher standard than the institutions mentioned. IMHO you no longer can do so; actually it was my opinion a long time ago that you shouldn't.
I think it is perfectly logical to have walked away from that situation without having chanted FYS or having felt the urge to kick someone's ass. I've done it myself and I have seen it done. To continue to justify it through this 'powder keg' of emotion or through mob mentality is ludicrous. It would have been, (gasp) the adult thing to do.
Just admit it, you had a few too many daquiris before the game and were a little saucy .. you saw an opportunity to slam Sparty and you took it. I've seen it done in Ann Arbor under far different circumstance (although usually under the guise of humor) and this is no different. Pissed off or not your justifications are ridiculous at best. It's fine your emotions got the best of you (it happens) but at some point in your life you'll have to learn how to not allow that to happen or every Tom, Dick, Harry, and Sally is going to have their way with you whenever things get tough.
So do we entirely disagree .. no .. I understand why it happened. I just think trying to justify it as an okay event is incorrect. How else do you handle it .. check down, get a hold of yourself, realize there is nothing you can do to change or alter the situation, that Kampfer is going to be fine, and walk away. Nothing that happened helped the situation any ... nothing.
I hardly detest swearing as you suggest. I swear like a sailor to use the old cliche. My band is highly offensive and foul at times as well.
Its part of life and part of entertainment.
What I disagree with here is the position you've staked on mob mentality as a justification for acting like a jackass.
I've attended many of sporting events ... I understand the context of emotions and yes I get riled up at poor calls (from my perspective), bad playing, cheap shots, etc. and so forth. But you lost me when you said something to the effect of it was better to yell FYS than to let the rage build inside and something worse happen.
What you don't seem to understand is nothing worse had to happen. Yeah, kicking the snot out of a Spartan that night or slashing their tires would have been worse than the chant but in all actuality neither needed to happen and its highly unlikely that the chant was what prevented the raucous behavior to get out of hand. It was likely common sense that said 'gee, I probably shouldn't assault any Spartans or vandalize any of their property because that wouldn't make me any better than the SOBs that just assaulted Kampfer on the ice.'
Get a clue ... your take on this is childish. Just like chanting FYS is a childish response to a very poor situation. I am sure emotions were high but that doesn't excuse a poor choice in behavior.
Furthermore, why such a build up in adrenaline and epinephrine whilst watching a sporting event; it isn't as if you're participating in said event.
You might want to check your emotions at the gate next time as its a little frightening to think you might want to kick my ass at a sporting event because a call or a circumstance out of your control may effect your overall behavior/psyche.
Way to show your maturity level there tough guy .. so sue me. Lame.
Listen, justifying your behavior through mob mentality is an absolute joke.
I could quite honestly not give two shits how you choose to act in a public place as that is your dilemma to live with and not mine. However, justifying actions which are easily unjustifiable is ludicrous and falls back to the whole, 'so if everyone is jumping off a bridge are you too going to jump off that bridge'. Are you trying to say if the mob mentality was to start beating the shit out of all the green and white in the building you would have been inclined to join in because at that instance you didn't know how to properly control your anger?
Give me a break .. it was an opportunity for you and your fellow students (and whoever else) to take a pot shot at State and not a shot at the individuals who were responsible for the heinous acts - you know the two who should largely be held responsible for the incident.
I don't know maybe I care less if the chant is F You (player name) as opposed to what it was .. I don't know. But to suggest that releasing your anger, through mob mentality, it justifiable when the chant isn't even necessarily being directed at the offenders is what makes your argument a load of bull.
So just simply understand what it is .. college students acting like college students do ... which is fine. But there also comes a time to .....
grow up.
egregious.
And FWIW we're not talking Ron Artest coming into the stands beating the crap out of people.
We're talking about something that happened on the ice which for all intents and purpose has no direct effect on the fan other than it happened to a player on the team they support and they witnessed it. Maybe some of them know Kampfer, etc. but at the same time the only people that could be excused from this action would be the Kampfers themselves.
I'm not sure that anyone is bent over curse words. Its justifying them that gets me.
We're removing ourselves from classlessness because of certain events that happened on the ice pissed us off. Give me a break.
That's why they're State or that sort of thing only happens in Columbus are excusable because they're rivals but it's okay in Ann Arbor because incidents on the ice beyond our control pissed us off?
Pot meet kettle.
The understanding of mob mentality is basic psychology but basic psychology doesn't condone this behavior.
Don't bring your PSY101 on me. I have a businesses degree that is largely rooted in psychology and was raised by a psychologist.
The actions are wrong - pissed off or not.
Your basic understanding of psychology isn't very deep. Yes the underlying theme of mob mentality would say as it swells the outcome isn't likely to be good. However, most psychologists would suggest that individuals ought to possess the mental capacity to not engage in such behavior. If mob mentality was a pure psychological defense I would also believe our legal system would have adopted rules to accomodate such a defense.
For a more simple read on that reead: it's a lousy excuse for lousy behavior.
To say that you released your anger through screaming the f word and this absolved your anger and allowed you to leave in peace is a load if you ask me. You are simply justifying actions which are not justifiable.
Nobody is happy about this situation, nobody, but justifying the use of the chant is ridiculous. Civil minded individuals should be able to walk away from this situation with honor - meaning with the ability to not punch a fan of the opposing team (a fan who had nothing to do with the situation and likely feels as bad for the Kampfers as anyone else) or chant the f word towards the opposing team.
Give me a break - grow up.
Things get thrown at UofM too. No school is above reproach on that.
Swearing at a public sporting event is just plain wrong no matter the circumstance. It was a disgusting act, period, and there is nothing that can be said that can change that.
Showing your disapproval through foul language due to 'mob mentality' or 'as an avenue to show your disgust' doesn't disqualify this as an action that is completely wrong - regardless of the precipatating event.
I wasn't there .. I get that .. but I have seen many malicious hits in sporting events and such and I have never been in a crowd that reacted in such a manner. As if the crowd has some serious effect on what led to or followed that event other than bearing witness to the event.
I feel bad for Kampfer but one of the things I was taught at a young age was don't make a bad situation worse. Chanting what was chanted potentially makes the situation worse.
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That angle (or my
But again, I should
And FWIW we're