i like 'em both
- Member for
- 5 years 16 weeks
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- 2008 - 10th
- 2009 - 8th
- 2010 - 20th
- 2011 - 21st* (* hybrid Hoke/Rodriguez class)
|5 days 5 min ago||Right||
Quick, everybody check next season's football schedule to make sure the location for Michigan / Ohio State hasn't changed from "Ann Arbor" to "TBA".
|5 days 17 min ago||Hold on...||
I think it's a little harsh to suggest that Bill Martin did nothing for lower profile sports. The first facility upgrade he completed here after he took over was the baseball / softball complex. Bill just did what any AD would do when faced with a massive cash surplus and a campus full of aging facilities. He started with the highest priority ones first and worked his way down.
By the time Brandon came along, all the low hanging fruit was already picked. What else you going to do with all that money? You can't build two football stadiums. Granted, the coaches of the low profile teams have every reason to like Brandon, but that doesn't make him the champion of non-revenue sports at Michigan.
|6 days 9 hours ago||The notion that MIchigan has||
The notion that MIchigan has sunk to a level where it is reasonable to make them an analogue to Rutgers is so depressing, I can't even....but it's true.
|1 week 5 hours ago||True||
This is true, I don't know your coach, but I can make some inferences from the limited amount of data that you've volunteered....and they're not good.
|1 week 2 days ago||Devin Gardner may not go down||
Devin Gardner may not go down as one of the best quarterbacks in Michigan history, but he may be the toughest.
|1 week 4 days ago||Here goes nothing....||
Here goes nothing....
|1 week 4 days ago||Starts out so innocent, then||
Starts out so innocent, then 10 years later, this is what has happened....
|1 week 4 days ago||True, although I wonder how||
True, although I wonder how much better the Michigan job really looked compared to Penn State in 1969. I mean Bo himself pointed out that the state of facilities at Michigan when he got there were far from world class at the time. The only thing Michigan really had going for it was reputation. It's not like Canham was going to offer JoePa a massive pay raise to come take over a Michigan program that was state of the art....that might have had something to do with his turning the job down.
|1 week 4 days ago||Wrong||
Your loyalty to the University of Michigan, whether you're a former player, alumnus, or just a fan, should be above which person is at the head of the program. Calling out all these players who are now lining up to support the team when they were conspicuously absent durnig the Rodriguez firestorm is more than reasonable because they aren't really here to support Michigan, they're here to support "Lloyd Carr's Michigan" and that is the problem. That hypocracy is what has contributed to the toxic environment around this Athletic Department since Bo passed away and if we need to move past it if we're ever going to get back to being elite again.
|1 week 5 days ago||Rare is the head coach who||
Rare is the head coach who exhibits elite strategic acumen on both the offensive and defensive sides of the ball. That's why you have a staff that you have to trust and rely on to help pick up the slack. This argument that Rodriguez's success is only as good as the DC he had working with him because "he knows nothing about defense" is a red herring. You can say something similar about every other head coach in college football.
|1 week 5 days ago||For all the guys who were||
For all the guys who were dancing on Rich Rod's grave and celebrating the return of "Michigan Football", this is the nightmare scenario. Michigan floundering under the leadership of the Michigan Man, while the guy who couldn't cut it in the big leagues is succeeding in an even bigger league. It's an uncomfortable thing to consider, but we should be asking ourselves, if it wasn't all Rich Rod, then maybe it was us?
|1 week 5 days ago||Sorry, but clearly Rich||
Sorry, but clearly Rich Rodriguez is a pretty good football coach. It's not like he succeeding at some Mountain West program. He's winning in the Pac-12, a conference which by any quantifiable measure is superior to the Big 10. If the difference between Rodriguez's results at West Virginia and Arizona versus Michigan was how he fit in with the culture, then maybe it's our culture that has to change.
|1 week 6 days ago||That's like saying the||
That's like saying the Atlantic and Pacific are technically only one ocean. Michigan and Huron are separated by a strait and occupy their own individual basins, which geologically makes them separate lakes.
Now the difference in depth between the basins is pretty small and the flow between them is relatively uniform, so hydrologically, they could be considered one lake, but it's all in what definition you want to follow.
|1 week 6 days ago||Infuriating||
Rich Rodriguez did indeed fail here at Michigan, but because of almost none of the reasons you cited.
1. Rodriguez didn't "chase" Mallett out of Michigan. This has been debunked numerous times in the past. Even if Rodriguez hadn't been hired and brought an offensive system that was a poor fit to Mallet's skill set, he was probably on his way out because he was unpopular with his teammates and Bobby Petrino had just gotten hired at Arkansas, which was his first choice of a school coming out of HS. Once you had a team missing Mallet, Arrington, and Manningham, it was probably going to look pretty awful no matter what.
2. Rodriguez's recruiting rankings according to Rivals during his tenure:
Rodriguez certainly left some holes in some position areas, offensive line, specifically, and retention was a problem, but his recruiting was fairly good until the sharks started circling, and even with the shark's recruiting didn't drop off a cliff.
3. This is our failing, not his, and is just an excuse for all those who didn't like Rodriguez because he was an outsider and not MIchigan Man enough for some people. This is a toxic aspect of our culture that needs to be changed from within.
4. The Lion King is a movie, not a book and this comment is beyond stupid.
5. I didn't think you could make a stupider comment than number 4, but I was wrong.
6. The records for Hoke are also pretty abyssmal and trending in the opposite direction than under Rodriguez. There's no way to predict that if Rodriguez had been given a fairer shot that he ultimately would've succeeded, but you can definitely argue that we could have given Rich a fourth year and if things didn't work out to everyone's satisfaction, Hoke would've still been available to hire from SDSU.
|2 weeks 1 day ago||Holy crap, that's terrifying.||
Holy crap, that's terrifying.
|2 weeks 2 days ago||The close ones do. When you||
The close ones do. When you lose to Utah or Minnesota by a couple of scores, all you do is shake your head in bewilderment and chuckle. When you lose a Rutgers game that was completely winnable, it still hurts a little.
|2 weeks 2 days ago||I'm marveling at how easily||
I'm marveling at how easily uncomfortable situations are defused by the offending party admitting the error and offering sincere remorse. Stands in stark contrast to the clownshow of the past week.
|2 weeks 3 days ago||It's not an insult if you are||
It's not an insult if you are being obtuse, and frankly, pretending that the only reason Brandon is under fire is due to record alone without taking into account anything else is an obtuse argument to make.
|2 weeks 5 days ago||Ugh||
Oh boy, I can't wait to see how my "Rich Rodriguez Appreciation Thread" is received.
|2 weeks 5 days ago||At this point, I think it's||
At this point, I think it's fair to say that Michigan's problems reach a lot deeper than depth issues created by a couple of quality linemen that we didn't get because Hoke was hired too late in the recruiting cycle. At this point we've seen issues in decision-making, game preparation, philosophy, and strategy that go far beyond simply concerns about aspects of our player personnel.
|2 weeks 5 days ago||Well, Herbstreit is wrong and||
Well, Herbstreit is wrong and applying the same falacious argument that others on the board have made by saying, "If X were true, then Y would be happening". Jesus, there's a thread two above this one taking a poll using that every same, flawed logic. Hoke isn't under fire because of the Shane Morris thing. Hoke is under fire due to the cumulative effect of 2.5 seasons of ineffective football management which has come to a head with the latest variable, Shane Morris playing while concussed, being the final straw.
If Brady Hoke was 5-0, then half a dozen things that have happened during the seaosn thusfar that lead to Shane Morris starting and getting hurt wouldn't have happened.
I guess expecting sound logic would be too much to expect from an OSU graduate.
|2 weeks 5 days ago||No! Dig up stupid!||
No! Dig up stupid!
|2 weeks 5 days ago||Oh man, in that case, I would||
Oh man, in that case, I would suggest you consult with a physician....or maybe a shaman.
|2 weeks 5 days ago||No?||
You don't say?
I'll take "Things That Nobody Is Going to Find Surprising At All" for $600 Alex....
|2 weeks 5 days ago||"It's going to be Lane||
"It's going to be Lane Kiffin, you know that right?.....I honestly believe it's going to be Lane Kiffin"
- Brian Cook
Dear God....no....please be wrong
|2 weeks 5 days ago||I believe Hoke is officially||
I think that press conference is delayed until December or January regardless of the number of wins Michigan has if only because the President and the Regents have to deal with getting rid of Brandon first. I can't imagine, after the absolute clownshow these past couple of weeks, that the University would allow David Brandon to stand up at the podium and proudly introduce the next head football coach at the University of Michigan. That would be unfathomable.
|2 weeks 5 days ago||Your Vision Needs Glasses||
Sorry, but you're giving Brandon way too much credit. The MIchigan Stadium upgrade was completed under Bill Martin's tenure. The initiative to upgrade Crisler was already well underway during Martin's tenure. New softball and baseball stadiums? Bill Martin. Certainly Brandon has picked up where Bill Martin left off with the refurbishment of Yost and his grand scheme for a $300 million athletic megaplex, but the guy who got the ball rolling on this was Bill Martin, not David Brandon. Your post has the tone that Brandon came in to a floundering department hemorraging money and rescued it, but that was the scenario that Bill Martin inherited from a decade of mismanagement by the likes of Tom Goss, Joe Roberson, and Jack Weidenbach. Michigan athletics was already profitable when Brandon took over, the difference between them is that Brandon has never met a money-making scheme that he didn't like.
In terms of an Athletic Director who has struck a good balance between managing ticket prices, department profit margins, and preserving the Michigan experience, Bill Martin was far more successful than Dave Brandon. I know that's an unpopular position to take around here because, you know, sailboats and Rich Rodriguez, but Martin at least was content to try and let Michigan be Michigan, whereas Dave Brandon seems to want to remake Michigan into the Jerry Jones version of the Dallas Cowboys, which, pardon my French, fuck that.
Praising him for neutral site games against Alabama? Sorry that was a shitty idea. Outdoor hockey games? They are wonderful except when we're moving home dates to an outdoor venue that isn't at our home and then disguising it to season ticket holders as a price reduction. OK, he scheduled a home and home with Texas, he get's a cookie for that but letting the Big 10 screw up our home schedule cadence by moving MSU and OSU to the same year was a colossal gaffe. Crediting him for the basketball team's resurgence? Bill Martin hired John Beilein and the program was already on the upswing with Brandon took over.
Brandon's vision that every Michigan home game should be an event comparable to the Super Bowl has grown tiresome. The gameday experience was better when pregame flyovers or skydivers were an occassional novelty rather than being a weekly part of the pageantry. Brandon's attempt to squeeze every last dime out of the Michigan brand has reached the vulgar and honestly, I don't think there's anyone on his staff who knows to tell him to stop, because anyone who would recognize that fact has been pushed out.
And now, on top of all that, when it's clear that Brandon's biggest decision so far as AD, hiring Brady Hoke, is not going to work out; he handicaps a potential coaching search by throwing his current coach under the bus to cover his own back. Your pollyannaish characterization of David Brandon is way off the mark and frankly, makes me want to punch a wall.
|2 weeks 6 days ago||"We Are The Champions" by||
"We Are The Champions" by Queen.
Fuck all this pessimism
|2 weeks 6 days ago||I mean, it would be a very||
No it wouldn't, it would be perceived as Hoke caving in to public pressure and make his position appear even weaker than it already is; all over something that doesn't matter very much. None of the guys on this thread screaming about "STUBBORNESS!" on this thread would do anything differently if put in the same situation.
|2 weeks 6 days ago||Because being open and candid||
Because being open and candid with the media served our last head coach so well? I agree that Hoke's presence at the podium could be more polished, but treating the media in an adversarial manner, especially in today's climate is completely understandable and probably desirable. If we've learned anything the past 7 years, it should be that the media in this state is not here to be our advocate. They'd just as soon tear us down as build us up, so keeping them at arms length seems reasonable to me.