Why did you use your timeout before the Iowa punt? “I called timeout because I thought we had 12 guys on the field.” Did you? “No, we didn’t. I didn’t count very well. As soon as I called it and counted I said, you know what, I hope we don’t need that one late. I talked about the kids’ effort. I had a pretty good effort, but I didn’t execute on that one very good for them.”
Would you have been able to run the ball on one of the last four plays if you had that timeout? “Might be able to.”
If Coach Hoke wore headphones could Michigan have saved a time out for the last drive? If he had the ability to quickly communicate with other coaches, I'm thinking he could've asked a coach up stairs with a better view of the field than he had from the sideline - "do we have 11 or 12 on the field?" "Nope, 11, Coach." "Ok, I won't call time out then."
I thought Three and Out was a perfect title. Not sure if John Bacon or his editor get credit but I like it.
I'm not sure if it will validate my suspiciouns or change my views of the characters in this drama. I do know that I can trust John Bacon's account of what he saw. I give Coach Rodriguez a lot of credit for allowing Bacon so much access. Looking forward to having it arrive on my porch.
Powlus passed for td with less than a minute to go on his way to winning those two Heisman's Beano Cook predicted. (Ha!) Notre Dame stadium erupted.
But then Todd Collins led us back on a 4 play 59 yard drive - the last pass for 9 yards with 9 seconds to go and no timeouts to get us within field goal range. Every play of that drive had to be perfect and it was. We were sitting in the endzone and it felt like Remy Hamilton kicked it straight to us Unbelievable drive to end the game.
I have to say the Notre Dame fans were all class that day. I've been to quite a few away games and the ND fans - even after that heartbreaking loss - were by far the best sports. It was just a great game between two great programs that, unfortunately, someone had to lose.
And then 7 days later I was at the worst game of the 90s. What a week that was.
Were you hoping to get Devin Gardner some snaps? “Oh yeah, ... God knows I’d like to get Devin in the game. It’s just hard to do unless you’re going to commit to a two-quarterback system, which we’re not going to do. We’re going to wait and find instances we can get him on the field.”
Hard to do? Michigan was up 28-3 in the 4th quarter against Eastern. Ron English's offenses have only scored more than 28 points 3 times (none in 2009; 2 x in 2010 - 30-45 loss to WMU; 41-38 win over Ball State; and once against a division 2 school in 2011 41-9 over Howard).
If Borgess can't get Devin on the field against EMU with a 25 point 4th quarter lead, when does he possibly think that he might be able to "find instances we can get him on the field" in the remaining games on the schedule?
I wonder what made him uncomfortable - EMU doesn't have a fast strike, big play offense; Michigan's defense was playing well enough (and it seemed like reserves were getting some valuable playing time on D). And, of course, it's EMU (has English's team ever scored 28 points on a Division I team?).
It doesn't seem likely that Gardner will get any playing time against SDSU. So we head into conference play with our backup at the most important position on the field getting no reps in 4 non-conference games. And he missed almost all of last year.
I guess I don't understand why we didn't take advantage of what may be the last opportunity to get Gardner in a game that was well in hand when it is even less likely that he's going to play this week.
The "throw back" uniforms had only one purpose - to make more money. I'd like to think that Bo would probably tell his former player Brandon to get off his knees and just leave that quarter under the toilet. Do we really need to grab every cent that we possibly can get from the fans? As a Michigan man, I stand for something different. I don't really enjoy the corporate greed that Brandon represents, in my view.
Albom wrote a book on the Fab Five but completely missed the real story. Wasn't that where Webber first whined about not having enough money to buy a Michigan jersey with his name on it. I guess he must've spent the quarter million from Eddie Martin on other things.
Sadly, I think you're probably right. Appalachian State. Oregon. 1-5 in his final 6 against Ohio State.
That's why some of us were excited to reach for the stars with Rodriguez. He wasn't Lloyd. But now we have Lloyd back and I'm sure we'll regularly be 10-3 or 9-4 or 8-5. Decent. But never great.* It feels like many Michigan fans will be satisified with that.
* The 97 team was great. And it was primarily juniors and seniors recruited by Moeller.
I love this idea. I have struggled with how best to honor our Hall of Fame coach. This is definitely it.
Please let Brandon know that I will pay more money to go to this game if he makes it "Lloyd Carr Day."
He could also have our new mascot - the Noid - present a trophy sponsored by the Michigan Cherry and North Carolina Tobacco Growers Associations to the winner. And loser (why have just one trophy when you can have two sponsors?).
After 13 years how did he leave the program? Appalachian State. Oregon. Steven Threet. Nick Sheridan. He did well with Gary Moeller's players. But when he was on his own ... well .. the proof is in the pudding - no coach in Michigan history went 1-5 against Ohio State during any stretch. Stop trying to revise history to make him something that he wasn't - a good coach.
A coach who helped turn freshman-Denard into sophomore-First-Team-All-American Denard is one of the best college QB coaches on the planet.
As a Michigan college football fan, I do not measure the quality of a coach based on how players do after the leave Michigan. I'll take Dennis Franklin, Ricky Leach, and Denard Robinson over Jeff George every day.
Was that Tebow's freshman or sophomore year? We had the #1 pick in the NFL draft (Long) and the Miami Dolphins starting quarterback (Henne) but we lost to a Division 2 school at home, were blown out by Oregon at home, lost for the 5th time in Carr's final 6 years to Ohio State, etc.
I love Michigan. But the arrogance of our fan base is tiresome. I hope Brady Hoke isn't as bad as his track record suggests. But I will not be satisifed with 8-4 / 9-3.
Are you counting Carr's 13th season as a good year? You liked being humiliated by Appalachian State and Oregon in 2007? Michigan has not been an elite program since Gary Moeller's recruits left campus after the 1997 season.
Speed wins national championships. Not predicitble manball.
I've been going to Michigan games since 1973. It was a sad day when we had to stoop to hire a guy with exactly 3 winning seasons out of 8 as our head coach. Elite? Get over yourself.
According to the NCAA, the practices that resulted in major violations and the loss of 3 football scholarships for Ball State started in the spring of 2003. Brady Hoke was hired in December 2002 - after 8 years at Michigan.
Do you think he brought those practices with him or are you going to be inconsistent?
Our new head coach has 3 winning seasons in 8 years as a head coach. He hasn't dominated the second tier of college football - or frankly done very well at that level. He's had 2 good seasons out of 8.
By comparison - Bo coached 6 years at Miami (NTM) and had 6 winning seasons finishing 1st or 2nd 5 years and 3rd once before he became Michigan's head coach.
No one should be surprised that Hoke doesn't have national respect - he hasn't earned it yet. Hopefully, one day he will.
A few, certainly not all, factors that came to my mind when I saw this post:
1. Some of the staff left over from the Carr regime and disappointed with the hiring of Coach Rodriguez but stuck around long enough to complain about him to the media and others now no longer work at Michigan.
2. The folks who didn't like Coach Rodriguez from day one are happy because they finally got what they wanted.
3. Coach Carr finally being escorted to the exit last August probably helped.
I'm sure others have different and valid points of view.
Was a warrior. Won World Series with 3 different teams. The winningest pitcher of the 80s. His game 7 - 10 inning - 1-0 win for the Twins is one of the greatest games ever pitched. Verlander is great. He could be better than Jack.
Many of the veteran players in 2008 did not "put things in the best possible light and [ ]embrace the change that a new coach brings." Many of them whined. One of them transferred to Ohio State. Some of them complained to the Free Press. I think their actions in 2008 reflect directly on their character. I am glad that the veteran playerson on the 2011 roster appear to be different.
I was commenting on the quality of the players on the 2011 roster. There are no Borens, for example, whining about having to play at a faster pace or practicing in a different way than they were used too ...and then transferring to Ohio State and complaining about a lack of family values at Michigan (ironic now). In addition to Boren, I believe there were a number of other veteran players in 2008 who did not embrace (or even accept) the coaching change. This lack of character in the veterans, I believe, played a part in the 2008 season.
Thankfully, it does not appear that there is a similar problem with the returning players on the 2011 roster. Those who left did so with class and those who stayed appear to be working hard and accepting the change. That's good. And it reflects well on them.
I didn't bash Lloyd Carr. No need. His record speaks for itself.
I imagine it must be nice to walk into a situtation where quality young men, ready to be coached are committed from day one instead of the way it was in 2008.
With all of the talent that we have coming back and Ohio State imploding anything less than 10 wins will be a huge disappointment.
We had 7 wins last year. From what I read Hoke is a fantastic coach so he should easily collect 3 more wins than Rodriguez (especially since the players will all have one more year in the weight room and a lot of experience as underclassmen the past few years).
If the test of greatness is ... did he leave the program in better shape than when he accidently inherited it ... then Lloyd Carr is not a Hall of Fame coach.
From what I understand, he is a nice man. But the fact remains, he finished 1-6 against Ohio State, and in his final year his #5 team lost to Appalachian State and was embarrassed by Oregon. And he left the player and coaching cupboard empty when he faded away.
At the end of the day, he was a good man, but a coach who had 13 years to make the program better than it was when he inherited it. But he didn't. A lot of revisionist historians focus on 1997. Remind me what he did over the next 10 years after he no longer had Gary Moeller's juniors and seniors on his roster?
Does Lloyd Carr deserve to be in the Hall of Fame? Well, If John Cooper is there, then Lloyd certainly deserves it, too. Doesn't seem like much of a Hall of "Fame" to me..
The guy inherited great players from Gary Moeller (31 players on the 1997 team went to the NFL - how many on Carr's last team?) and he won with them. Then he spent the next 10 years building his program finishing 1-6 against Ohio State and in his final season suffering humiliating losses to Appalachian State and Oregon.
As a life long fan of Michigan football - who actually saw Bo coach and the original #1 Anthony Carter play - I do not understand the Carr-fetish that some people on this site have. He was an accidental coach who had great success with Moeller's recruits and then spent the next 10 years steadily driving us downhill. He's the guy who recruited the classless Braylon Edwards and so many of the former players who failed to support guys like RVB.
The best thing Brandon did was fire Carr last summer. Good riddance.
Are people concerned that Hoke may be in over his head? He only has 3 winning seasons in 8 years at low level schools so there is no evidence so far to suggest that he is a good coach and now his offense seems to have turned a first team All-American / Big Ten MVP into a very mediocre quarterback. Is he going to take us back to the "glory" days of Lloyd Carr (1-6 vs. Ohio State in his final 7 years) and Braylon Edwards (1-3 vs. Ohio State)?
Last year, we were amazed at the transformation that Denard made from his freshman run-only plays to a few months later throwing great passes in the spring game. This year, under Hoke, Denard seems seems to have regressed tremendously.
I was wondering if you are at least willing to give Coach Rodriguez some credit for not leaving the cupboard empty this time? Hoke is very lucky to have more talent on his first team than what Carr left for his successor.
I assume that you agree that with an experienced junior starting qb, healthy defensive backs with experience, etc. that not only will Hoke have his 4th winnnig season in his 9 year coaching career but that he will continue the trajectory and win at least 9 games this year. Anything less should be considered a failure on his part in my opinion.
Hoke will obviously have a better chance with junior Denard at qb than Rodriguez had with Sheriden/Threet.
The measure of a great coach, in large part, is whether a program is significantly better than it was when he started. Bo did that. Red certainly did it. Lloyd did not. The Michigan football program at the end of Lloyd's tenure was not better than it was when the job fell in his lap.
Lloyd Carr finished his 13 year career 1-6 against Ohio State. He had one great season in 1997, primarily benefiting from the great defense filled with Moeller recruited juniors and seniors. In his last season he lost to Appalachian State with the #5 team in the country and several NFL players. At the end, Michigan was not a national power and had fallen far behind Ohio State in the Big Ten.
Red Berenson, on the other hand, built a program into a national power. Near the end of his career, his team is once again playing for a national title.
Recent Comments
Why did you use your timeout before the Iowa punt? “I called timeout because I thought we had 12 guys on the field.” Did you? “No, we didn’t. I didn’t count very well. As soon as I called it and counted I said, you know what, I hope we don’t need that one late. I talked about the kids’ effort. I had a pretty good effort, but I didn’t execute on that one very good for them.”
Would you have been able to run the ball on one of the last four plays if you had that timeout? “Might be able to.”
If Coach Hoke wore headphones could Michigan have saved a time out for the last drive? If he had the ability to quickly communicate with other coaches, I'm thinking he could've asked a coach up stairs with a better view of the field than he had from the sideline - "do we have 11 or 12 on the field?" "Nope, 11, Coach." "Ok, I won't call time out then."
I thought Three and Out was a perfect title. Not sure if John Bacon or his editor get credit but I like it.
I'm not sure if it will validate my suspiciouns or change my views of the characters in this drama. I do know that I can trust John Bacon's account of what he saw. I give Coach Rodriguez a lot of credit for allowing Bacon so much access. Looking forward to having it arrive on my porch.
Powlus passed for td with less than a minute to go on his way to winning those two Heisman's Beano Cook predicted. (Ha!) Notre Dame stadium erupted.
But then Todd Collins led us back on a 4 play 59 yard drive - the last pass for 9 yards with 9 seconds to go and no timeouts to get us within field goal range. Every play of that drive had to be perfect and it was. We were sitting in the endzone and it felt like Remy Hamilton kicked it straight to us Unbelievable drive to end the game.
Great story about the game here: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1005660/index.htm
I have to say the Notre Dame fans were all class that day. I've been to quite a few away games and the ND fans - even after that heartbreaking loss - were by far the best sports. It was just a great game between two great programs that, unfortunately, someone had to lose.
And then 7 days later I was at the worst game of the 90s. What a week that was.
Are you saying that Brady Hoke was afraid to put Devin Gardner in the game with a 25 point 4th quarter lead against Eastern?
Were you hoping to get Devin Gardner some snaps? “Oh yeah, ... God knows I’d like to get Devin in the game. It’s just hard to do unless you’re going to commit to a two-quarterback system, which we’re not going to do. We’re going to wait and find instances we can get him on the field.”
Hard to do? Michigan was up 28-3 in the 4th quarter against Eastern. Ron English's offenses have only scored more than 28 points 3 times (none in 2009; 2 x in 2010 - 30-45 loss to WMU; 41-38 win over Ball State; and once against a division 2 school in 2011 41-9 over Howard).
If Borgess can't get Devin on the field against EMU with a 25 point 4th quarter lead, when does he possibly think that he might be able to "find instances we can get him on the field" in the remaining games on the schedule?
for editing.
I wonder what made him uncomfortable - EMU doesn't have a fast strike, big play offense; Michigan's defense was playing well enough (and it seemed like reserves were getting some valuable playing time on D). And, of course, it's EMU (has English's team ever scored 28 points on a Division I team?).
It doesn't seem likely that Gardner will get any playing time against SDSU. So we head into conference play with our backup at the most important position on the field getting no reps in 4 non-conference games. And he missed almost all of last year.
I guess I don't understand why we didn't take advantage of what may be the last opportunity to get Gardner in a game that was well in hand when it is even less likely that he's going to play this week.
Why didn't any of the cub reporters ask: with a 28-3 lead over EMU in the 4th quarter why didn't you get some reps for Devin Gardner?
The "throw back" uniforms had only one purpose - to make more money. I'd like to think that Bo would probably tell his former player Brandon to get off his knees and just leave that quarter under the toilet. Do we really need to grab every cent that we possibly can get from the fans? As a Michigan man, I stand for something different. I don't really enjoy the corporate greed that Brandon represents, in my view.
Albom wrote a book on the Fab Five but completely missed the real story. Wasn't that where Webber first whined about not having enough money to buy a Michigan jersey with his name on it. I guess he must've spent the quarter million from Eddie Martin on other things.
Sadly, I think you're probably right. Appalachian State. Oregon. 1-5 in his final 6 against Ohio State.
That's why some of us were excited to reach for the stars with Rodriguez. He wasn't Lloyd. But now we have Lloyd back and I'm sure we'll regularly be 10-3 or 9-4 or 8-5. Decent. But never great.* It feels like many Michigan fans will be satisified with that.
* The 97 team was great. And it was primarily juniors and seniors recruited by Moeller.
I love this idea. I have struggled with how best to honor our Hall of Fame coach. This is definitely it.
Please let Brandon know that I will pay more money to go to this game if he makes it "Lloyd Carr Day."
He could also have our new mascot - the Noid - present a trophy sponsored by the Michigan Cherry and North Carolina Tobacco Growers Associations to the winner. And loser (why have just one trophy when you can have two sponsors?).
After 13 years how did he leave the program? Appalachian State. Oregon. Steven Threet. Nick Sheridan. He did well with Gary Moeller's players. But when he was on his own ... well .. the proof is in the pudding - no coach in Michigan history went 1-5 against Ohio State during any stretch. Stop trying to revise history to make him something that he wasn't - a good coach.
A coach who helped turn freshman-Denard into sophomore-First-Team-All-American Denard is one of the best college QB coaches on the planet.
As a Michigan college football fan, I do not measure the quality of a coach based on how players do after the leave Michigan. I'll take Dennis Franklin, Ricky Leach, and Denard Robinson over Jeff George every day.
please file this and get me a cup of coffee, sweetheart.
When Michigan played top teams ... we lost.
Was that Tebow's freshman or sophomore year? We had the #1 pick in the NFL draft (Long) and the Miami Dolphins starting quarterback (Henne) but we lost to a Division 2 school at home, were blown out by Oregon at home, lost for the 5th time in Carr's final 6 years to Ohio State, etc.
I love Michigan. But the arrogance of our fan base is tiresome. I hope Brady Hoke isn't as bad as his track record suggests. But I will not be satisifed with 8-4 / 9-3.
Are you counting Carr's 13th season as a good year? You liked being humiliated by Appalachian State and Oregon in 2007? Michigan has not been an elite program since Gary Moeller's recruits left campus after the 1997 season.
Speed wins national championships. Not predicitble manball.
I've been going to Michigan games since 1973. It was a sad day when we had to stoop to hire a guy with exactly 3 winning seasons out of 8 as our head coach. Elite? Get over yourself.
According to the NCAA, the practices that resulted in major violations and the loss of 3 football scholarships for Ball State started in the spring of 2003. Brady Hoke was hired in December 2002 - after 8 years at Michigan.
Do you think he brought those practices with him or are you going to be inconsistent?
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/NCAANewsArchive/2007/Division+I/infractions%2Bcase%2Bball%2Bstate%2Buniversity.htmlpractices
I wasn't aware of the BSU probation. What happened?
Our new head coach has 3 winning seasons in 8 years as a head coach. He hasn't dominated the second tier of college football - or frankly done very well at that level. He's had 2 good seasons out of 8.
By comparison - Bo coached 6 years at Miami (NTM) and had 6 winning seasons finishing 1st or 2nd 5 years and 3rd once before he became Michigan's head coach.
No one should be surprised that Hoke doesn't have national respect - he hasn't earned it yet. Hopefully, one day he will.
A few, certainly not all, factors that came to my mind when I saw this post:
1. Some of the staff left over from the Carr regime and disappointed with the hiring of Coach Rodriguez but stuck around long enough to complain about him to the media and others now no longer work at Michigan.
2. The folks who didn't like Coach Rodriguez from day one are happy because they finally got what they wanted.
3. Coach Carr finally being escorted to the exit last August probably helped.
I'm sure others have different and valid points of view.
Verlander is a great pitcher. Jack Morris was a winner. When Verlander gets his first ring, then we can compare him to Jack (who has 4).
Was a warrior. Won World Series with 3 different teams. The winningest pitcher of the 80s. His game 7 - 10 inning - 1-0 win for the Twins is one of the greatest games ever pitched. Verlander is great. He could be better than Jack.
Does anyone know when the Michigan compliance department started receiving this perk?
It does seem like the compliance/ethics people should not receive any outside payments or perks.
Many of the veteran players in 2008 did not "put things in the best possible light and [ ]embrace the change that a new coach brings." Many of them whined. One of them transferred to Ohio State. Some of them complained to the Free Press. I think their actions in 2008 reflect directly on their character. I am glad that the veteran playerson on the 2011 roster appear to be different.
.
I was commenting on the quality of the players on the 2011 roster. There are no Borens, for example, whining about having to play at a faster pace or practicing in a different way than they were used too ...and then transferring to Ohio State and complaining about a lack of family values at Michigan (ironic now). In addition to Boren, I believe there were a number of other veteran players in 2008 who did not embrace (or even accept) the coaching change. This lack of character in the veterans, I believe, played a part in the 2008 season.
Thankfully, it does not appear that there is a similar problem with the returning players on the 2011 roster. Those who left did so with class and those who stayed appear to be working hard and accepting the change. That's good. And it reflects well on them.
I didn't bash Lloyd Carr. No need. His record speaks for itself.
I imagine it must be nice to walk into a situtation where quality young men, ready to be coached are committed from day one instead of the way it was in 2008.
With all of the talent that we have coming back and Ohio State imploding anything less than 10 wins will be a huge disappointment.
We had 7 wins last year. From what I read Hoke is a fantastic coach so he should easily collect 3 more wins than Rodriguez (especially since the players will all have one more year in the weight room and a lot of experience as underclassmen the past few years).
If the test of greatness is ... did he leave the program in better shape than when he accidently inherited it ... then Lloyd Carr is not a Hall of Fame coach.
From what I understand, he is a nice man. But the fact remains, he finished 1-6 against Ohio State, and in his final year his #5 team lost to Appalachian State and was embarrassed by Oregon. And he left the player and coaching cupboard empty when he faded away.
At the end of the day, he was a good man, but a coach who had 13 years to make the program better than it was when he inherited it. But he didn't. A lot of revisionist historians focus on 1997. Remind me what he did over the next 10 years after he no longer had Gary Moeller's juniors and seniors on his roster?
Does Lloyd Carr deserve to be in the Hall of Fame? Well, If John Cooper is there, then Lloyd certainly deserves it, too. Doesn't seem like much of a Hall of "Fame" to me..
The guy inherited great players from Gary Moeller (31 players on the 1997 team went to the NFL - how many on Carr's last team?) and he won with them. Then he spent the next 10 years building his program finishing 1-6 against Ohio State and in his final season suffering humiliating losses to Appalachian State and Oregon.
As a life long fan of Michigan football - who actually saw Bo coach and the original #1 Anthony Carter play - I do not understand the Carr-fetish that some people on this site have. He was an accidental coach who had great success with Moeller's recruits and then spent the next 10 years steadily driving us downhill. He's the guy who recruited the classless Braylon Edwards and so many of the former players who failed to support guys like RVB.
The best thing Brandon did was fire Carr last summer. Good riddance.
Are people concerned that Hoke may be in over his head? He only has 3 winning seasons in 8 years at low level schools so there is no evidence so far to suggest that he is a good coach and now his offense seems to have turned a first team All-American / Big Ten MVP into a very mediocre quarterback. Is he going to take us back to the "glory" days of Lloyd Carr (1-6 vs. Ohio State in his final 7 years) and Braylon Edwards (1-3 vs. Ohio State)?
Last year, we were amazed at the transformation that Denard made from his freshman run-only plays to a few months later throwing great passes in the spring game. This year, under Hoke, Denard seems seems to have regressed tremendously.
...started by Coach Rodriguez.
I was wondering if you are at least willing to give Coach Rodriguez some credit for not leaving the cupboard empty this time? Hoke is very lucky to have more talent on his first team than what Carr left for his successor.
I assume that you agree that with an experienced junior starting qb, healthy defensive backs with experience, etc. that not only will Hoke have his 4th winnnig season in his 9 year coaching career but that he will continue the trajectory and win at least 9 games this year. Anything less should be considered a failure on his part in my opinion.
Hoke will obviously have a better chance with junior Denard at qb than Rodriguez had with Sheriden/Threet.
The measure of a great coach, in large part, is whether a program is significantly better than it was when he started. Bo did that. Red certainly did it. Lloyd did not. The Michigan football program at the end of Lloyd's tenure was not better than it was when the job fell in his lap.
Lloyd Carr finished his 13 year career 1-6 against Ohio State. He had one great season in 1997, primarily benefiting from the great defense filled with Moeller recruited juniors and seniors. In his last season he lost to Appalachian State with the #5 team in the country and several NFL players. At the end, Michigan was not a national power and had fallen far behind Ohio State in the Big Ten.
Red Berenson, on the other hand, built a program into a national power. Near the end of his career, his team is once again playing for a national title.
They are really nothing a like at all.