chance of bowl: 13.6%
|1 week 6 days ago||How I feel about our offense||
How I feel about our offense finally being serviceable just in time for the defense to implode.
|3 weeks 3 days ago||This may be the most||
This may be the most impressive suicide by mod I've ever seen.
|3 weeks 3 days ago||Ugh, they need to come||
Ugh, they need to come completely clean on this whole thing and provide a detailed account from those involved, and I don't just mean Brady's personal take in the post-game presser. The lack of information has just fueled this and will continue to because the visual evidence alone is really damning. The truth might be bad as well, but at least it won't be speculation, which is always worse. Get everyone involved's take, Morris, Hoke, Nuss, Schmidt and get it out there quickly.
|3 weeks 3 days ago||I don't see how I can be||
I don't see how I can be wrong when I clearly concede that one possiblity is that Schmidt screwed up. Or when I clearly concede in my OP that the matter wasn't handled well.
The point I'm making is everyone is pretending like they know with certainty exactly what happened. You don't. Let's hold off on destroying a man's reputation until more information comes out from the parties involved, which at this point is next to nothing.
|3 weeks 3 days ago||I think a coordinator is too||
I think a coordinator is too risky right now. There's a big difference in skillsets required to go from a coordinator to a HC. Some guys make the leap, some fail miserably, and it's really hard to tell the difference beforehand. Michigan needs a known entity, we can't afford to be someone's audition or first foray into head coaching.
|3 weeks 3 days ago||This. By now, if not Hoke||
This. By now, if not Hoke himself, then someone will have realized how woefully inadequate the post game response was. They have one chance to regain the narrative and I hope they come clean on the entire sequence of events, including Morris's point of view, Nuss's point of view, Paul Schmidt's (Athletic Trainer) point of view, etc. This may or may not be as big of a deal as people are making it to be, but the lack of a real answer from the guys involved have let the public fill in the blanks with the worst case scenario.
|3 weeks 3 days ago||Gardner was, at several||
Gardner was, at several points in 2013, just as visibly hobbled as Morris (pre head hit). So is Funchess right now. Neither of those guys are in any better position to "protect themselves." Hell, we had a pretty good torch and pitchfork session about Funchess's blocking effort last week, with no slack given for literally hoping around on one leg on the sidelines. Right or wrong, playing hurt is pretty ubiquitous, and not just on this team.
|3 weeks 3 days ago||The problem is the rules are||
The problem is the rules are fairly ambiguous:
Here's the relevant section on diagnosis (bold emphasis mine)
"Recognition and diagnosis of concussion: All student-athletes who are experiencing signs, symptoms or behaviors consistent with a sport-related concussion, at rest or with exertion, must be removed from practice or competition and referred to an athletic trainer or team physician with experience in concussion management. A student-athlete’s health care provider experienced in the diagnosis and management of concussion should conduct and document serial clinical evaluation inclusive of symptom inventory and evaluation of cognition and balance. A student-athlete diagnosed with sport-related concussion should not be allowed to return to play in the current game or practice and should be withheld from athletic activity for the remainder of the day. Disposition decisions for more serious injuries such as cervical spine trauma, skull fracture or intracranial bleed, should be made at the time of presentation."
So, Paul Schmidt talking to Morris and not seeing concussion like symptoms seems to have the discretion to not conduct the evaluation. Again, concussion seems like a forgone conclusion given the video we saw, but Schmidt is right there next to the guy talking to him and in a much better position to make the call, as well has being more qualified. I will concede it's possible that Schmidt simply screwed up as well. We don't know at this point..
|3 weeks 3 days ago||Of course it's not. The guy||
Of course it's not. The guy said Morris should have been taken out before the head hit, which is different from how we treated Gardner last year.
|3 weeks 3 days ago||So it's ok to play a player||
So it's ok to play a player hurt as long as he's helping you win? Isn't that exactly the mindset people are railing against?
|3 weeks 3 days ago||I guess I'm doing a poor job||
I guess I'm doing a poor job framing this. I absolutely think leaving him in there for one more play was a mistake. Full stop. And for the record, he needs to be fired, but not for this. I just hate to see people twist this into a Hoke doesn't care for his players thing when it's pretty clear that this is just another in a long string of incidents where he's been caught deer in headlights style during games. Some of the comments here are frankly nothing short of character assasination.
|3 weeks 3 days ago||Credit Nathan too. He hasn't||
Credit Nathan too. He hasn't exactly been lights out, but going 1-2-3 to close a game like he should was big. Hopefully he'll keep it going.
|3 weeks 3 days ago||At that point the training||
At that point the training staff, particularly the head trainer, had been with Morris and presumably cleared him to play.
|3 weeks 3 days ago||Agreed, but what if in his||
Agreed, but what if in his initial interaction he determined a full evaluation wasn't necessary?
|3 weeks 3 days ago||No, it's not. It's evidence||
No, it's not. It's evidence of incompetence.
Disregard implies not caring about the players. You can't see Hoke kneeling over an injured Dennis Norfleet last game, stroking his helmet and trying to comfort him and come to that conclusion. On the other hand there are multiple examples of the game moving too fast for Hoke.
Hanlon's Razor says "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity," which I think applies here.
|3 weeks 3 days ago||I find it pretty disingenious||
I find it pretty disingenious that the Gardner thing is now a knock on Hoke when we pretty much unanimously regarded it as a gutsy performance. Like I said in the front page thread, I can't help but feel that some are summoning up some extra indignation to justify letting Hoke go immediately (as if he hasn't done enough himself to justify it).
|3 weeks 3 days ago||How do you know he wasn't||
How do you know he wasn't cleared? Serious question. Paul Schmidt was on camera attending to Morris the whole time leading up to going back in and never took his helmet.
|3 weeks 3 days ago||I'm not a doctor and I can||
I'm not a doctor and I can definitely see that based on the video evidence that it's likely. Like I said, the right thing is to take the kid out immediately to be safe. But on the other hand doing it one play later after the kid didn't want to come out initially is not the cataclysmic event everyone is making it out to be.
|3 weeks 3 days ago||Paul Schmidt was right there||
Paul Schmidt was right there immediately when he came off. I don't know what the initial evaluation is and if it was handled properly, but clearly Schmidt was on the situation. If he failed to do what the protocols say he should then that's one thing, but it could just as easily be that his initial interaction with Shane didn't suggest a concussion.
|3 weeks 3 days ago||That's exactly what I think||
That's exactly what I think happened. Things moved too quickly for Hoke and Co, and the inertia of the game got Shane through one more play before everyone came to their senses. Again, incompetence, not ill intent.
|3 weeks 3 days ago||Dude, did you see Gardner||
Dude, did you see Gardner last year? Or Funchess the last 3 games for that matter? Concussions are one thing, playing hurt is another thing entirely and happens all the time. I don't get the double standard. Why is Gardner playing on a broken toe "gutsy" but Shane needs to come out at the first sign of a limp?
|3 weeks 3 days ago||Look, I know it looks bad,||
Look, I know it looks bad, and I get people are rightly sensitive when it comes to head injuries... but we don't have any confirmation that Morris is concussed. All armchair doctoring based on the video is just that. Again, it doen't look good, but there are still other possibilities to explain the way Morris looked, not the least possible of which is that he was just in so much pain from the aggregate hits to the leg. Paul Schmidt, 21 year veteran athletic trainer, attended to Morris immediately when he came out and unless Paul too is irresponsible and incompetent, didn't hold Morris out for the helmet fiasco a few plays later.
Yes, you take the kid out either way until you're sure, but on the other hand he vehemently waved off the sidelines and got exactly one more play before the coaches overruled him. Bad judgement? Yes. Incompetent? Sure. Criminal? Evil? Abhorrent? I dunno... I can't help but feel that people are at least in part using this incident to get what they want, which is an immediate exit for Hoke.
|3 weeks 3 days ago||This guy is a genius. He gets||
This guy is a genius. He gets paid more to not coach teams anymore than most coaches get for working.
|3 weeks 3 days ago||If Hoke is interimed, the guy||
If Hoke is interimed, the guy holding the position in the meantime will probably be Mattison. Nuss is new and doesn't have long relationships with the players and the problems are on his side of the ball. The options pretty much end there.
|3 weeks 3 days ago||Hoke will likely last the||
Hoke will likely last the season but the search for his replacement has begun, if it didn't after ND. Maybe Brandon hasn't started looking, but someone at Michigan has already started the process.
Schissel's ambivalent view of athletics worries me though. Hopefully someone is in his ear about the role football plays in the overall financial health of the school (for better or for worse). I have a sinking feeling that between contracts still to be paid, a presumed new AD potentially conservative in not wanting to risk too much financially, and the said ambivalence of the President that Michigan's war chest to buy a top hire won't be as impressive as we all think.
|3 weeks 3 days ago||My fandom in a nutshell this season||
Somewhere in the second half my cable box died. I've been deathly ill the last few days with the flu and could hardly move. We were already down 6 and showed no signs of life on offense. Without hesitation, I scampered as fast I could up the stairs to my bedroom to watch on our second TV, the fastest I've moved in 3 days. The first play on the second TV? A tip ball pick six. That was enough.... finally, sweet release of geniunely not caring anymore. I watched the rest of the game in bed flipping channels (something I never do during Michigan games, even in commercials).
|3 weeks 3 days ago||(Oh who am I kidding)||
(Oh who am I kidding)
|3 weeks 3 days ago||That was bizarre and sad.||
That was bizarre and sad. Gardner has always been very supportive of Shane, even when he got benched last week.
Something happened this week in practices that finally brought everything to a head. The sideline demeanor was terrible all game today. No one talking to anyone the entire time.
|3 weeks 3 days ago||Honestly, I moved from the||
Honestly, I moved from the "needs more time" camp to the "let's try and hold it together until the end of the season with some semblence of order" camp after ND. The upcoming change still scares me, especially given the available candidates, but at this point there's no other option. This team is fundamentally broken.
|3 weeks 3 days ago||Thanks for posting this. My||
Thanks for posting this. My memory was a little off on a couple of points and I have to say it makes Hoke look a lot worse.
For one, I initially thought the Athletic Trainer had a chance to do a concusion test. Not only was there not enough time to, but he's on camera talking to Morris, but not administering the test. That means they sent him back out there without knowing his status. That's just plain awful
For two, Bellomy was wandering around with a headset on 10-15 seconds after Gardner's helmet came off. It took the TV crew less time to realize he was needed and to find him on camera than it took the coaching staff. Inexcusable.
|3 weeks 3 days ago||You just described pretty||
You just described pretty much Devin Gardner's whole 2013 season. I get the head thing and why people are (rightfully) sensitive about it, which is why they did take him out. One play too late and then inexplicably one more play later, but they still took him out pretty damn quick. People have played through much much worse as far as leg issues though (Funchess right now is another example).
|3 weeks 3 days ago||Head injuries are different||
Head injuries are different and people are rightly more sensitive about them. That said, I sort of agree that people are looking at this with a very different lense than Gardner's 2013 pummelling. It's probably more that the game and season look lost as opposed to last year were we were in most games still until the near the end.
|3 weeks 3 days ago||I wasn't that upset with the||
I wasn't that upset with the Morris thing initially, but I have to say, the Hoke comments are infuriating. Talk about just not getting it.
|3 weeks 4 days ago||Again, I'm very much not||
Again, I'm very much not defending him, the list of things that Hoke ought to notice that he hasn't is getting way too long. On the other hand, they did take him out... one play later and the only reason it wasn' immediately was because he refused to come out. It's negligence and incompetence, not maliciousness or callousness.
Also, the commentators were clearly wrong as even their own broadcast showed Paul Schmitt shadowing Morris from when he first tweaked his ankle on.
|3 weeks 4 days ago||It honestly looked to me more||
It honestly looked to me more like he couldn't put weight on the leg than loss of balance or being disoriented. But yes, not even noticing on Brady's part is inexcusable.
|3 weeks 4 days ago||I wasn't that upset with it||
I wasn't that upset with it initially. Like you said with the leg thing, lots of people play with those and we consider it gutsy in most cases.
After the late hit, Morris was clearly motioning to the sideline that he didn't want to come out, so ok. Then they took him out pretty much immediately after that.
The Bellmoy helmet thing upset me because how the fuck do you not tell the 3rd string guy to get ready. I'll give the trainers the benefit of the doubt they checked out Morris by then I guess.
The thing I am pretty pissed about however, is that Brady mentioned postgame that he didn't notice Morris wobbly. That's inexcusable. Are you even fucking watching the game? The fucking QB takes head shot, there's a even a penalty called, but you don't even look his way to see if he's ok? I want to pull for him, but it's pretty clear at this point he's not cut out for head coaching at this level.
|3 weeks 4 days ago||I'm not defending Brady's||
I'm not defending Brady's job, he's cooked. but Morris was clearly motioning that he did not want to come out. Then they took him out one or two plays later. I didn't think the sequence was as deplorable as most I guess. That said, the fact that Hoke didn't even notice is unreal. The guy just can't focus on the details enough to run a program.
|3 weeks 4 days ago||Yeah, I know that, but like I||
Yeah, I know that, but like I said, they took him out pretty much immediately after that.
|3 weeks 4 days ago||I was pretty sure Hoke needed||
I was pretty sure Hoke needed to go (90% after ND, 99% after Utah) but I tried not to be too open about because I wanted to wait until the end of the season and was hoping we could hold together and support the team until then at least.
Now, whatever. The guy isn't the right guy. Wish it weren't so and the transition still scares me, but what we have right now is untenable. We couldn't even catch a bus back to tenable right now.
|3 weeks 4 days ago||Of all the things, I'm kind||
Of all the things, I'm kind of surprised people are the most upset at this. Gardner was gimpy most of last year and played a game on a broken foot. They took him out two plays after the late hit potential head injury, and only because Morris refused to come out. I'm not even sure it was a head hit, more like on the chin. The not calling the TO when Gardner's helmet came off was shitty, but Bellomy was on his way in until he couldn't find his helmet. I dunno, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that they did a concussion check on Morris at that point and would have taken his helmet if he had failed.
|3 weeks 4 days ago||At least there's no doubt.||
At least there's no doubt.
|3 weeks 4 days ago||Oh absolutey. But OP was||
Oh absolutey. But OP was talking about taking him out much earlier, when he first tweaked the leg.
They got him out one play too late on the late hit to the head (because Morris refused to come out, btw). And then obviously not calling the TO when Bellomy couldn't find his fucking helmet. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that they did the concussion check on him by then though.
|3 weeks 4 days ago||Hoke needs to be fired, but||
Hoke needs to be fired, but Gardner played a game on a broken foot and we called it gutsy... just saying.
|3 weeks 4 days ago||He'll be under his 3rd OC and||
He'll be under his 3rd OC and QB coach next year.. so, probably not the best for his development.
|3 weeks 4 days ago||He's gone. Let's try to be||
He's gone. Let's try to be civil about it.
|3 weeks 4 days ago||Hagerup!||
|3 weeks 4 days ago||Phew, big break there.||
Phew, big break there.
|3 weeks 4 days ago||Probably a good call||
Probably a good call actually. Two guys behind him ready to down it. Good execution (ugh) by Minn.
|3 weeks 4 days ago||What's the flag for?||
What's the flag for?
|3 weeks 4 days ago||Oh I'm not upset about it,||
Oh I'm not upset about it, like you say, it's pretty normal. Still, to pick one guy out of 115 to highlight as the only one with drive and then seeing him out partying before gameday isn't exactly consistent.
|3 weeks 4 days ago||Kind of ironic the one guy||
Kind of ironic the one guy Desmond Howard singled out as having a drive to be great in practice was A) actually hurt in practice and B) caught on social media doing things that are the opposite of that.
|3 weeks 4 days ago||(No subject)|
|3 weeks 4 days ago||Unstoppable throw god showed||
Unstoppable throw god showed up today. Plus PSU's OL may literally be the worst I have ever seen. It's amazing they managed to paper over it and remain undefeated until now.
|3 weeks 4 days ago||PSU guy blocking other PSU||
PSU guy blocking other PSU guy. Wow. Remember guys, it can always get worse.
|3 weeks 4 days ago||Yes, because fair would be to||
Yes, because fair would be to be as shitty to the backup as you are to the starter.
|3 weeks 4 days ago||I thought he was the only one||
I thought he was the only one in practice that had swagger?
In all seriousness, if this is the week to have this happen. Next week we're on the road against Schrodinger's QB in Gary Nova. Hopefully he'll be back by then.
|3 weeks 4 days ago||I think Hackenberg just died.||
I think Hackenberg just died.
|3 weeks 4 days ago||Best: The team sees an||
Best: The team sees an incredible turnaround. Goes 9-3 or 8-4 with at least one rival win
Bad: Team collapses and we don't get bowl eligible.
Worst: Hoke does ok (8-4 with both rival losses, or 7-5 with one rival win), gets fired anyway, No available candidates. Underwhelming comes into divided fanbase, runs off a bunch of players that don't fit the new system, recruiting craters. We go through another coaching transition in 3-4 years.
|3 weeks 4 days ago||Ok, fair inference that that||
Ok, fair inference that that might be the case, but it's still not what Desmond said.
|3 weeks 4 days ago||Howard didn't say Hoke wasn't||
Howard didn't say Hoke wasn't a good coach. He said the players lacked the drive to be great.
|3 weeks 4 days ago||Give Me A Fucking Break. This||
Give. Me. A. Fucking. Break. This is one of the most insanely idiotic things I've read here ever. What a gutless, cowardly, disingenuious thing to say. What have you done in your life to question Hoke's "fire?"
Hoke started coaching at the HS level in 1982 and worked himself through the ranks (GVSU, Western Michigan, Toledo, Oregon State) before winning the Michigan DL coach job in 1995. He then left to earn his dues as a HC at Ball St in 2002, and then SDSU before coming back to Michigan.
You have no fucking clue the amount of dedication it takes to grind for 30 years to reach your dream job in a cut throat, merciless profession like coaching. You have no idea the sacrifices he, and his family, have had to make along the way. It's all too easy for you, guy behind the keyboard, to question his effort and dedication, isn't it?
|3 weeks 4 days ago||PSU's DC seems to be allergic||
PSU's DC seems to be allergic to carrying TEs down the seam.
|3 weeks 4 days ago||Exactly. You can't fucking||
Exactly. You can't fucking win with the "no fire in the bell" argument. Guys being upbeat and happy? "Look, they don't even care." Guys looking depressed? "Look, they gave up." Guys getting mad? "Look, the team's falling apart."
|3 weeks 4 days ago||He did what you expect a FR||
He did what you expect a FR to do in their first start, and Borges deserves some credit for giving him a good game plan to protect him a bit. He's been spotty in relief, but so has Gardner in his time. He's also not as bad as his stats suggest. I'm not sure he's the answer either, but it's pretty clear to me that he deserves the start today given the situation.
|3 weeks 4 days ago||We have a lot of problems. QB||
We have a lot of problems. QB is one of them. Just because it isn't the only problem or even the biggest doesn't mean you don't try to address it.
|3 weeks 4 days ago||PSU's OL might be worse than||
PSU's OL might be worse than ours last year.
|3 weeks 4 days ago||I really hate attacks on||
I really hate attacks on players' motivation. I mean, it could be true, but it could also be just a cliched thing to say about a team not doing well. There's no way to know what's in a player's heart, especially not after attending one practice, so I wish commentators would be a lot more careful about questioning effort. I dunno, I saw a team come out after a 1.5 hour weather delay with just about no chance to win and play hard to the finish. They have my benefit of the doubt that they're still working hard, and I think Desmond's comments should be taken with a healthy grain of salt.
|3 weeks 4 days ago||Depends on attrition and||
Depends on attrition and recruiting impact, as well as how much the new guy's systems can use the guys we have.
It's certainly possible to have instant success, but definitely not guaranteed. And then we might have a Hoke in 2011 situation were the guys getting older have a great season, but a hole in 2015 recruiting and attrition hits us a couple years later.
|3 weeks 4 days ago||Probably not enough for||
Probably not enough for another thread, but Chad is going to be an honorary captain Saturday, including going out for the opening coin toss.
|3 weeks 5 days ago||I've been a staunch Devin||
I've been a staunch Devin supporter all along until the last game. The time has come. I know the odds of Morris being much better (or any better) are slim, but you can't just keep sending Devin out there when he's clearly in a deep slump and probably hurt as well. If Morris collapses, then Gardner goes back in and you're right were you started off, minus one or two terrible turn-overs, which we're having anyway. You'll take that for a chance at a spark to jumpstart the offense.
I also think you guys are selling Morris short. Yeah, he didn't look great in the scrimmages, but he was still better than Gardner both times. The KSU game was just fine for a true freshman start. They limited his risk and he did well in that circumstance, as planned. Pushing the ball downfield trying to make up a big deficit isn't exactly high percentage, nor has Gardner been great in that scenario either.
|3 weeks 5 days ago||Was about 20 minutes from||
Was about 20 minutes from buying tickets Wednesday but ended up not because I was starting to come down with a flu. Glad I didn't because I'm completely need ridden right now. :( Would really have liked to, this is probably the last chance this season for me before Maryland.
|3 weeks 5 days ago||The vultures are circling.||
The vultures are circling.
|3 weeks 5 days ago||Maybe long term, DG to WR||
Maybe long term, DG to WR would make sense after Morris has had a couple good games under his belt, but I would be pretty surprised if he practiced anywhere but QB this week. Morris might get the start, but the odds of DG having to relieve him are way too high not to have Devin go through a solid week of prep.
|3 weeks 5 days ago||It certainly has the same||
It certainly has the same everyone coming out of the woodwork to take shots feel
|3 weeks 5 days ago||A good reminder there's more||
A good reminder there's more to life than wins and losses. Couldn't be prouder of this team despite the rough patch and get better soon Chad.
|3 weeks 6 days ago||Yup, anyone with a heart has||
Yup, anyone with a heart has to feel the same way. The only thing that makes me feel a bit better about it is I think Gardner could definitely use a week off to gather himself and probably heal up physically too. As disappointed as he has to be about this, I'm sure there's a part of him that is probably relieved too.
Who knows how long this will last. too. If he doesn't give up, which nothing he's done so far indicates that he will, he could be right back in there next week, or heck it might even be earlier if Morris doesn't do well.
|3 weeks 6 days ago||The App St INT was mostly on||
The App St INT was mostly on Darboh not coming back to the ball, something he did to Gardner and got him an INT too against ND. The throw was late too in both cases, but running a lazy route on a long hitch like that is asking for the DB to recover and jump your route.
He looked fine against Miami, his numbers suffered because of the two drops.
Utah INT was mostly due to weather IMO. The ball just slipped out of his hands, Chesson was open. The fumble was in fact a true rookie mistake that they'll have to fix before he starts.
I agree with the poster above. Getting a start with a week of prep and a game plan tailored to you very different than getting throw in mid game in garbage time or in tire fire time.
I do think you're right that people should temper their expectations and not expect a complete transformation of the offense, but at the same time, he deserves a shot and at this point Michigan has to take that chance.
|4 weeks 2 hours ago||Occam's Razor says he got||
Occam's Razor says he got old.
|4 weeks 3 hours ago||Meh||
This team's got 99 problems but stonewalling the press ain't 1.
|4 weeks 3 hours ago||It was fucking bizarre. How||
It was fucking bizarre. How is someone in the outfield stands supposed to relay the sign back into the hitter from that distance in time?
|4 weeks 3 hours ago||Soria's coming off of injury||
Soria's coming off of injury though, perfect opportunity to work him in with no pressure. I actually was wondering if Sanchez would get the ninth for the same reason.
|4 weeks 3 hours ago||Sale hitting Victor Martinez||
Sale hitting Victor Martinez and then talking shit really woke the Tigers up. The binoculars thing Kinsler did right back to him was freaking priceless.
|4 weeks 3 hours ago||He did look awfully good||
He did look awfully good against Miami though, sample size and competition caveats, of course. He only got targeted for a couple of those hitches this game and seemed more or less fine. He seems to excel at being nose to nose with WRs and given the straight forward task of covering 1 vs 1. He's still picking up the finer points of zone coverage and play diagnosis on the other hand.
My guess is with everyone healthy, Lewis and Taylor man the outside and Peppers plays a much more active blitzing type of nickel. Countess is likely odd man out except to spell guys and on dime packages. I will say, our safety depth with the injuries is starting to get a little alarming so moving someone to safety isn't the worst idea in the world. It's easier said than done though, safety might be one of the hardest positions to learn on defense.
|4 weeks 7 hours ago||The key difference is that||
The key difference is that baseball players and basketball players don't develop slumps as the result of being repeatedly pummeled into goo
|4 weeks 7 hours ago||The dispirited thing is a||
The dispirited thing is a double edged sword sometimes. I remember distinctly people ragging on Denard smiling and jumping around while we were down, alleging that he didn't care. Being pissed and dejected on the sideline on the other hand brings out the opposite critique, that the players have given up.
|4 weeks 7 hours ago||I agree with most of your||
I agree with most of your post except that I think Hoke knows with probably 95%+ certainty who's going to start but just isn't going to tell anyone about it.
|4 weeks 7 hours ago||Regarding the per play stats||
Regarding the per play stats being pretty decent.... that's about the only hope I have left to hang on to. Based on that, it seems like we're close, closer than last year. It seems like there's an offense in there that can be serviceable if not for a couple of factors. Unfortunately, those factors seem to not be easy fixes. On the other hand, last year we were an all around tire fire but had some very low hanging fruit in terms of areas to address (i.e. Borges and Offensive Line). I dunno, I'm kind of fluctuating between thinking we're going to get better and thinking that this is as good as it's going to be. There don't seem to be many in season adjustments available anymore outside of maybe QB other than just keep getting reps in practice and hoping for the best.
|4 weeks 8 hours ago||At this point the most||
At this point the most compelling reason for me to bench Gardner is for Gardner's own sake. The kid needs at least a week off to heal physically and mentally. He has been an absolute warrior and team player his whole time at Michigan, it kills me that he's been ground down to a shell of himself. I want nothing more than to see him succeed, but at this point keeping him out there doesn't seem like it's in the interest of either Michigan or Devin Gardner.
|4 weeks 8 hours ago||On the other hand, why make||
On the other hand, why make it easier?
|4 weeks 9 hours ago||Hard to say. I think on OL||
Hard to say. I think on OL and maybe RB, there's enough data there to suggest the position coaches aren't doing their job. Other positions seem less clear. It's not an across the board issue, since walk-ons and lower ranked guys are breaking out along side the guys that aren't living up to the hype (R Glasgow and Pipkins at NT for example, Jeremy Clark and Dymonte Thomas at S, etc)
|4 weeks 9 hours ago||I think it's more that||
I think it's more that they're trying not to look behind. As in, ND and Utah sucked, but they don't matter to our goal for the season.
|4 weeks 9 hours ago||I knew someone was going to ask this||
First of all, this presser happened Monday morning (see date in title). Second of all, watching the video, it seems pretty obvious to me that Blake let the miscommunication bit slip accidentally and the reporters sort of cornered him with the follow up question on specifics and neither Blake nor Jake really wanted to answer it. My guess is they didn't want to throw an individual under the bus, so Jake defaulted to the generic it was all of us answer.
|4 weeks 10 hours ago||This team is weird in terms||
This team is weird in terms of player development. I think we can all agree we've had a lot of stud guys not pan out (yet). But then we find lots of diamonds in the rough too, so it's not like there's no development going on. I have no idea why it's happening.
|4 weeks 10 hours ago||There's a couple of position||
There's a couple of position coaches I'd definitely give the firm hand shake too. I'm not really sold on Wellman either. He seems like a great liason and motivator for the coaches during no-contact periods, but our guys seem slow and weak. The S&C staff seems to focus a lot on body composition numbers rather than functional strength and speed/quickness. Since we're a football team and not a bodybuilding team, I'm not sure how much that translates to the field.
|4 weeks 10 hours ago||I appreciate that point. If||
I appreciate that point. If not for the last 3 years, no one would question Nuss's decision to slow down during the installation process. I still think it stands to reason that Hoke is not dictating tempo and the last 3 years were a Borges preference and we're slow for a different reason right now.
It looks by the eye test that our tempo isn't deliberate one way or the other right now and more of a function of just making sure all the boxes are checked. Borges seemed to get calls in late a lot and we'd break the huddle late. But, at the same time, we did have some tempo packages we'd trot out when needed.
I guess we'll find out as the season unfolds. Even so, my qualitative feel is that we actually have been better at getting to the line faster. The plays that go right down to the last second are either audibles (hooray!) or big shifts and motions (like on the 4th and 1 delay of game).
|4 weeks 10 hours ago||Yeah, I'm sort of in||
Yeah, I'm sort of in agreement I guess. We do a lot of tried and true stuff that still works fine. We're not interested in trying the more innovative stuff for the most part. That's fair. I don't think that's what a lot of the comments are implying though, people think he's a guy that never watched a snap of football after 1997 and I don't think that's fair at all.
|4 weeks 20 hours ago||A bit of apples to oranges,||
A bit of apples to oranges, Morris was less polished and had an obvious cannon for an arm. His o-line sucked and he ran for his life often. He also missed must of his senior season to mono.
Malzone seems to me much more polished and has more of the leadership intangibles to organize and run the offense. He doesn't have the immediate wow factor on his throws like Shane but seems to use what he had every efficiently.
|4 weeks 21 hours ago||I never said we were at the||
I never said we were at the vanguard of college football, but I have a hard time buying your obsolete characterization when teams are winning national championships and rose bowls with much the same style as us.
|4 weeks 22 hours ago||Better to walk them off||
Better to walk them off anyway. :)
|4 weeks 22 hours ago||You're not giving them enough||
You're not giving them enough credit. They're making potentially the most important decision of their life after all. Even if they don't, they have plenty of people in their ear that will (parents, opposing coaches, etc). Ace put it best, these guys are choosing between varying degrees of heaven, so this could be plenty to spook them enough to choose one of the many other teams fawning over them.
|4 weeks 23 hours ago||Just because we're not Oregon doesn't make us outdated||
Huddling isn't outdated, some people do it some don't.
QB at WR was a ploy to keep Devin engaged so he didn't transfer. Both Hoke and Gardner have said things to that effect.
I have no idea what you're talking about with Gallon, he was the #1 receiver and we used him everywhere.
Size in WR was most likely a Borges thing. We've also brought in speed guys like Canteen and Damario Jones. Norfleet is now playing slot (quickness more than speed, but certainly not size). Even Borges had no issues using Dileo
Size over speed at RB, probably valid, but again not exactly outdated.
Norfleet, again, is finally being utilized. Probably a Borges thing.
Morris seems to move just fine. Again, we're not Oregon, but that doesn't mean we're outdated.
I'm going to stop there but you get the idea.
|4 weeks 23 hours ago||Nuss talked about the tempo||
Nuss talked about the tempo thing. He wants to go faster, but wants the offense to stop fucking things up first and foremost before adding more to the plate. I really doubt it's something Hoke dictates, he even said time of possession is overrated. Even Borges had a "NASCAR" hurry up package, the fact that we don't even have that yet seems to point to Nuss being correct that this is a transitional thing that will be addressed when they get the basics.
This is the first year that we haven't run our QBs. We didn't do it as much as say RR did maybe, but the inverted veer and zone read was still an integral part of the offense. Even this year we ran it some until Miami. Oh, and by the way, both our QBs didn't make it through the season in consecutive years. I'm not convinced Gardner is not hurt right now (maybe why we stopped running him after ND), I mean he certainly hasn't looked very dynamic running the bal recently.
I think your paragraph is valid. When things don't go well, every little thing is a potential problem.
|4 weeks 23 hours ago||The post games are usually at||
The post games are usually at a table, but a lot of the interviews are just off to the side. The players often all do their interviews simultaneously so reporters go interview and listen to whoever they're interested in doing a story on any given week, so the spread out and set up where ever there's room.
|4 weeks 23 hours ago||This idea that Hoke is stuck||
This idea that Hoke is stuck in the past is way way overblown. I mean what are we talking about here? Spread punt? Ok, but other people still use it. What else? Are you telling me inside zone is outdated? Under center? Doesn't seem to stop Alabama or LSU or Stanford, etc, etc.
For whatever reason, our guys aren't executing (and yes, as much as we ridicule that idea, it does, you know, actually matter). Whether that's a coaching thing or not is a valid question, and yes there have been some straight up coaching errors, but some of the caricatures of Hoke are getting pretty divorced from reality.
|4 weeks 23 hours ago||Most importantly, it looks||
Most importantly, it looks like Dennis isn't seriously hurt from the game, which is great. It looked like he maybe separated his shoulder there.
Secondly, I don't think this is a concerted effort by Hoke or Brandon or whoever to drum up support. The media is regularly given access to certain players every week, so nothing new there. I think Mattison and his players genuinely care about Hoke and when prompted by the media about criticism, the jump to defend him is organic and authentic.
|4 weeks 1 day ago||I like JUB, but his campaign||
I like JUB, but his campaign against DB has lost me completely. He just seems to have an axe to grind here and has lost objectivity. I dunno, he doesn't pull off "critic" very well and should stick with the more documentary type of stuff.
|4 weeks 1 day ago||Recruits aren't dumb. A||
Recruits aren't dumb. A change in the head coach isn't far behind a change in the AD. If they don't put it together, I'm sure the media will be making that connection for them.
If and AD and HC change is necessary so be it, but let's do it the right way, have our ducks in a row and the next people lined up. The last thing we need is a circus of non stop speculation and public displays of dysfunction.
|4 weeks 1 day ago||The program is already in||
The program is already in crisis. People very publicly stiring shit up and calling for very big fundamental changes is always going to scare recruits. Will it actually scare any away? I dunno, but why take that chance for what's basically a classless publicity stunt?
|4 weeks 1 day ago||In terms of punt formation, I||
In terms of punt formation, I think the stubborn tag is apt, but in general, I'm not sure if that shoe actually fits. I understand why people think that, Hoke certainly has been talking a big talk about a certain identity he wants in his team. But if you look at the actual product on the field, I think he's actually shown a remarkable flexibility. We've run two different defenses and various variations on those themes. We ran a hybrid spread/pro style with Denard, unsuccessfully and grudgingly at times maybe, but it was a lot more accomodating than, say RR was with the guys he had (that's not a knock on RR btw, I think that's the norm for most coaches). If you look at his prior stops, you'd see even more flexibility, pretty much leaving it up to his coordinators to decide.
I also don't think he's averse to analytics and statistics. He's reference them in pressers at times and his game theory decisions (going for it on 4th, going for two, etc) have overwhemingly been correct based on the stats. All this makes the punt thing even more of a head scratcher, and I think OP might be on to something with his theory that Hoke's initial impression of the shield punt was so bad it gave him a lasting bias against it.
|4 weeks 1 day ago||As an outsider, I'm rooting||
As an outsider, I'm rooting for him and support the hardline clean start approach he's taking. If I were a Texas fan, I'd be very nervous. I don't get the feel from Texas fans that they have a lot of patience for a rebuilding process. A disciplinarian, after Mack, is a positive thing, but winning is going to matter more. If he can't win, this will go from a positive to a negative faster than Hoke's colloquialisms.
|4 weeks 1 day ago||The fanbase's discontent with||
The fanbase's discontent with Brandon and the program is well known. Mr. Analytics and social media that he is, there's no way he's not aware and if you believe the Regents story from yesterday, the Regents are well aware too. There's no need to resort to this bush league stunt.
|4 weeks 1 day ago||That's fine from a woe is me||
That's fine from a woe is me reaction about our current QB and coaching situation, but there's no way it doesn't affect the gameplanning Minnesota does.
|4 weeks 1 day ago||You're right about not||
You're right about not promising anything in the first place, but it's his prerogative to change his mind about it. It's really not that big of a deal. No one would bat an eye about it if the program wasn't under such intense scrutiny right now.
|4 weeks 1 day ago||Are we actively trying to||
Are we actively trying to sabotage our program now? You might as well fund a warning for recruits and propective coaches not to come here too.
|4 weeks 1 day ago||I guess I should have||
I guess I should have included the /s
|4 weeks 1 day ago||It's a matter of public||
It's a matter of public record if you're really interested
|4 weeks 1 day ago||I'm really excited about||
I'm really excited about Malzone. I'm kinda jaded about blue chippers with NFL attributes given our recent lack of production out of those types of guys. Give me a guy that has the mental atributes, skill, and intangibles to be successful at the college level over a raw athletic measurables anyday.
|4 weeks 1 day ago||I missed the whole Coke gate||
I missed the whole Coke gate thing last night. Can someone give me the cliff notes version? I mean it sounds to me like Coke bought a block of tickets from the AD and then botched the stipulations of the give-away. Isn't that a Coke fuck-up?
|4 weeks 1 day ago||No huddle also means everyone||
No huddle also means everyone gets their plays from the sideline, or they have to memorize a scripted series of plays. Both require practice time to implement. Shane tried to go no huddle and it was just as slow because it took everyone so much time to get on the same page.
|4 weeks 1 day ago||WUT?||
The first damn question was about tempo. Do you people even bother reading the thing before you start bitching?
|4 weeks 1 day ago||I'm not sold on Shaw. He||
I'm not sold on Shaw. He shows some Hokesque tendencies. Harbaugh left him a sustainable program and he hasn't cratered it yet, but I don't know if he's the right guy for a turnaround job.
|4 weeks 1 day ago||That's exactly the conundrum||
That's exactly the conundrum right now. We aren't in a position to take another chance and there aren't any low risk guys and our current guy is on his way to being untenable by season's end or sooner. Rock-hard place, frying pan-fire, etc
|4 weeks 1 day ago||The very next sentence||
Now, can you say consistently as a group we’ve come a long way? I wouldn’t say that. I thought that the other night we took a little bit of a step back
|4 weeks 1 day ago||Do you want a restraining||
Do you want a restraining order?
Because that's how you get a restraining order.
|4 weeks 1 day ago||Sorry Seth, but unless you're||
Sorry Seth, but unless you're willing to go into particulars, this is borderline irresponsible. Jon was 65. It's perfectly normal for people to retire at that age (i.e. leave voluntarily).
|4 weeks 1 day ago||That's why we only field 10||
That's why we only field 10 players on special teams. Can't be too careful.
|4 weeks 1 day ago||Sure I'm not the only||
Sure I'm not the only one.
You're not, and that's the problem.
|4 weeks 1 day ago||Charlie Weiss is the other||
Charlie Weiss is the other half.
Like I said above, considering our problem the last 7 years has been only being good on one side of the ball, it seems like taking a chance and being the first HC gig for a coordinator promotion seems like too much of a leap of faith. We need someone that has shown they can at least manage both sides of the ball successfully and handle all the other HC responsibilities that coordinators would be dealing with for the first time.
|4 weeks 1 day ago||Too much risk, IMO. The first||
Too much risk, IMO. The first sign of trouble and people will point to their lack of track record at a top level. If this was the hire to replace Carr, I'd be all for it, but after 7 years of misery, you have to go with known entities.
|4 weeks 1 day ago||The guys been through hell||
The guys been through hell and back. You can't blame him for losing a step along the way. I guess the word I would use is sad, because I feel sad for Devin that it's come to this.
|4 weeks 1 day ago||Right, and this thread is||
Right, and this thread is about what Hoke has to say about something. Look I don't mean to pick on you, but threads like this and the presser transcripts are filled with comments like "why does anyone listen to these guys?" If you don't, fine, I don't blame you. Don't just show up to make snippy comments that add no value to any discussion.
|4 weeks 1 day ago||I agree, no one is a||
I agree, no one is a guarantee, especially with how deep some of our issues go. However, there are varying degrees of risk. This year looks especially bad, virtually no candidates, and UF will be fighting us for whomever there is. Next year might not be better, but it might. It's very complicated and at some point it comes down to a leap of faith either way. I'm just bringing up the other side of the argument because I see a lot of "well it can't get worse" types of arguments for getting risk of Hoke, and I think the last few years have taught us a little something about how things can always get worse.
|4 weeks 1 day ago||I dunno, the defense looks||
I dunno, the defense looks pretty good. I mean, that's the issue right, we can't get both sides of the ball to competency going on 7 years now. I don't see how hiring a coordinator as a HC is going to help that.
|4 weeks 1 day ago||File under necessary but not||
File under necessary but not sufficient
|4 weeks 1 day ago||Do you honestly believe that?||
Do you honestly believe that? I get it, "they both suck, har har." But, their skillsets couldn't be more different. One is a dynamic athlete that can't seem to push the ball more than 20 yards downfield (like physically). The other is a semi-mobile guy with a rocket launcher arm. You don't think that's going to change how Minnesota defends?
|4 weeks 1 day ago||Why the hell would we want||
Why the hell would we want Minn to know who the starting QB is?
|4 weeks 1 day ago||Still care enough to read and||
Still care enough to read and comment apparently.
|4 weeks 1 day ago||You're right about both. Nuss||
You're right about both. Nuss is not happy with the pace, but he's less happy with the execution. Until that part starts getting better, he's hesitant to add even more pressure on the offense. He said as much in this week's presser.
I agree with you that Hoke can't simultaneously be the guy that is so hands off and knows nothing about X's and O's to the point he doesn't wear a headset, and be the guy that dictates the minutia details about how the offense is run.
|4 weeks 1 day ago||That's fair that not many of||
That's fair that not many of our star recruits have panned out yet, but the thing about the Michigan bump and self-fulfilling recruiting success isn't true. Our sleepers get Michigan bumps, but for the most part the blue chippers are blue chippers before they commit.
It's not just the recruiting services either. If you look at offer sheets, if we were off on evaluating these guys, so were many many other successful coaches.
|4 weeks 1 day ago||The schedule sets up nicely||
The schedule sets up nicely next year. The youth excuse will be all but totally gone next year. I don't know that Hoke and Co would be obvious lame ducks. Flaws and all, they might just put together 9-3 or better next year in which case the pressure is off for a bit and Michigan can be more patient in waiting for the home run hire.
|4 weeks 1 day ago||I don't like taking a chance||
I don't like taking a chance on a coordinator. There's always a big leap of faith that a person that's successful as a coordinator can run a program. I'd much rather take a shot at someone who's a head coach at a lower level than taking a shot on being someone's first head coaching gig.
|4 weeks 1 day ago||Well yeah, but that's hardly||
Well yeah, but that's hardly a newsworthy event though. We've known that for a while and it's common sense that that would happen given lack of success and compelling home games.
|4 weeks 1 day ago||Not to get off on a tangent,||
Not to get off on a tangent, but I think our fans suffer from a bit of amnesia too. We forget how bad things have been the last 7 years minus 2011 and think we should be NC contenders because of who we were 20 years ago.
|4 weeks 1 day ago||It looks fairly doomy, but we||
It looks fairly doomy, but we were all laughing about Ohio State's coaching search when they settled on the previously-obscure Jim Tressel. There are guys out there.
For every guy like Tressel that works out, there are tons of guys with very similar looking resumes that don't though. You can't just cherry pick the ones that work out and assume you'll get lucky. You and I have both brought up the Peter Principle... sometimes these guys are at the top of their competency level when coaching at a lower level. That seems to be the case with Hoke, sadly.
The two extremes in what the end of the year look like are
A) Hoke continues to crap the bed and we completely collapse.
B) There's a slam dunk hire knocking on the door to come coach here.
What's much more likely is that Hoke goes somewhere between 7-5 and 8-4, showing some small signs of improvement. Meanwhile, the list of viable candidates will be ones that require a leap of faith. I think we have to be open to the idea of punting for another year under Hoke in that situation. I just don't think this program or it's fans can gamble on another 3-4 years that ultimately don't work out with a new guy. Unless Hoke leaves no doubt he can't even be mediocre, we absolutely need a slam dunk hire for the next go around.
|4 weeks 1 day ago||I'm way late to the party||
I'm way late to the party with the Coke gate thing, but isn't that a Coke fuck up, not a Michigan fuck up? They bought a block of tickets from the AD. If Coke gave them away inadvertantly isn't that on Coke? Maybe I'm not understanding something here.
|4 weeks 1 day ago||ND was either a fluke or a||
ND was either a fluke or a continuing pattern, we didn't know which until Utah, now we do.
Hoke's got 8 games left to change the narrative, but using his own words, you don't get a second chance at making a first impression and the first impression of team 135 has been abysmal.
|4 weeks 1 day ago||That's not what I'm talking||
That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about former players airing dirty laundry publicly to actively sabotage the guy in charge. He says he wants the rest of the season to play out, then why hamstring Hoke by shitting on him publicly? I've already made my peace with Hoke getting canned if things don't turn around. Like you said, with ND and Utah, that's inevitable. But there's a right way and a wrong way to go about it.
|4 weeks 1 day ago||(No subject)||
|4 weeks 1 day ago||"I hate how RR was treated so||
"I hate how RR was treated so I'm going to make sure I do the same for Hoke"
What kind of fucking sense does that make?
|4 weeks 1 day ago||Ugh, this is patently false.||
Ugh, this is patently false. Borges was his QB coach for 3 years, Nuss has had 7 months with him. Nuss's track record as a QB coach speaks for itself.
|4 weeks 1 day ago||Count me in the camp that||
Count me in the camp that thinks he's harboring a secret injury. If I had to guess, it was from the shot he took after the INT at the end of the ND game.
|4 weeks 1 day ago||The expectations are||
The expectations are different too at the two schools too, even as recently as last year. Dantonio's first 3 seasons would have seen him under just as much fire as Hoke is now and probably gotten him fired.
|4 weeks 1 day ago||The punt thing is valid. The||
The punt thing is valid. The pace... jury's out. It might have been a Borges thing. Nuss says he wants to go faster but not before the offense starts making fewer mistakes. That's valid. Hoke has run every type of offense and defense everywhere he's been, trusting his coordinators to make the right choice. We had a psuedo spread here too to suit Denard's skills. Yeah, it felt like we were doing that grudgingly at times, but the caricature of a stubborn man stuck in the past isn't entirely fair either.
|4 weeks 1 day ago||*sniff* I'm going to miss||
*sniff* I'm going to miss this guy if/when Hoke leaves
|4 weeks 1 day ago||Delete||
Nevermind, meant to reply to another post.
|4 weeks 1 day ago||The punt coverage is the only||
The punt coverage is the only one where I feel we have a systemic issue.
FG% is going to be highly variable this early in the season. The two he missed at ND obviously killed his percentage.
Same goes for blocks, pretty much random at this point, a swing of one probably sees you move from bottom all the way to top.
Kick off coverage has been good as the stats show, I'd like to see more touchbacks but not complaining.
Norfleet doesn't break too many long ones and hasn't taken one to the house but he's been solid overall. I'll take that. We also seem to take a lot of touchbacks for whatever reason, not sure how that affects the ranking, but obviously that's outside of our control.
|4 weeks 1 day ago||Seriously, ND is an||
Seriously, ND is an illustrative example both ways. On one hand, they had no choice but to cut loose a few guys that obviously weren't going to work out. On the other, it took them 15+ years to finally get it right. They have every bit of the resources and prestige as UofM does too, it's not like they didn't have the pull to grab a good hire. It just goes to show how risky and disasterous coaching carousels are.
|4 weeks 1 day ago||But I've never heard||
But I've never heard "Transitions suck" as a reason cited to keep an incompetent person in any other job.
Seriously? Have you not worked in a corporate environment? They might not overtly say this is the reason, but people have literally made careers out of being easier to keep than to fire.
|4 weeks 1 day ago||If. That's the key. The other||
If. That's the key.
The other side of the if, if no one qualified is interested, then we should be level headed about the comparing what is available with what we have in Hoke and make a dispassionate decision.
The "it can't get worse" mentality has burned us over and over already and it's the last thing we need to be thinking when going into a potential coaching change.
|4 weeks 1 day ago||Why make the same mistake||
Why make the same mistake twice? Not saying that's the case here, but logically speaking, letting RR go too early is all the more reason to tread carefully with Hoke's tenure.
|4 weeks 1 day ago||Alright, deal Minn > 80yds||
Minn > 80yds rushing, I donate $20 to Wounded Warrior
Minn <= 80yds rushing, you donate $20 to ASPCA
|4 weeks 1 day ago||Seriously. The guy couldn't||
Seriously. The guy couldn't leave college football behind fast enough. Maybe in 10-15 years when the guy wants to find a nice landing spot, but right now he seems like he's NFL all the way.
|4 weeks 1 day ago||If you read/listen to||
If you read/listen to Nussmeier's presser, he mentions wanting to play faster, but they have to focus on playing correctly first. I think that's fair and reasonable. It'd be easier to accept if every other offense under Hoke hasn't crawled along too, but it is what it is at this point. We can't even string together 10 plays without a play-killing mental error and it stands to reason going faster would exacerbate that.
|4 weeks 2 days ago||My feeling is they would do 1||
My feeling is they would do 1 win better than Hoke would next year. Obviously, that's an untestable hypothesis. I think Hoke's lack of attention to detail costs us around that much a year. Long term development wise, I think maybe add another win per year.
I don't believe those guys or anyone can 180 this team. Too many fundamental problems with the roster and long term issues that take time to resolve.
|4 weeks 2 days ago||A lot of the people on your||
A lot of the people on your list don't pass criteria #3 and possibly #5.
|4 weeks 2 days ago||Not too many here question||
Not too many here question Hoke the person, I certainly never have. We'll need to decide at the end of this season about Hoke the head coach. I'm pulling for him, but I'm pulling for Michigan harder and if that means he gets replaced, so be it. I just hope we can make the decision in a level headed manner and not just jump to whomever is available out of anger or or panic or epression or whatever.
|4 weeks 2 days ago||Yup, lets keep it simple||
Yup, lets keep it simple
|4 weeks 2 days ago||Yeah, that's fine. Michigan||
Yeah, that's fine. Michigan >=175 yds rushing, you win. Michigan<175 yds rushing, I win.
|4 weeks 2 days ago||I feel significantly less||
I feel significantly less hopeful right now unfortunately.
Last year, it felt like our problems were very tangible and fixable. The OL was young and needed experience. The OC couldn't take advantage of opposing weakness nor would he account for our own weaknesses.
Both should have been mitigated. Yes I know OT is in the same position, but the interior isn't exactly lighting it up. As far as OCs go, it seemed like Nuss is as much a slam dunk as there is in coaching.
Neither seemed to make much difference and this offense seems frustratingly familiar and making frustratingly famliar mistakes and even adding some new ones. Coupled with the uncertainty at the end of the year should Hoke be canned, I just have a very very bad feeling about what this program will look like for the forseeable future. I am at heart an optimist when it comes to Michigan football, but I have to admit, I'm finding it hard to see things to hitch whatever optimism I have left to.
|4 weeks 2 days ago||Meh||
With the exception of one guy, Golson, having a career day against us, our defense has been stout. I'm more worried about their defense looking like the 85 Bears.
|4 weeks 2 days ago||I just read my post and point||
I just read my post and point 3 is confusing as written. Should read we're not good enough to go down in small chunks, we need plays in bigger chunks.
You're right, we're not going to be particularly successful on longer passing plays because of protection, but we need to try. Right now we're a low variance, low success team. We could possibly improve to be a high-variance, low success team in which case there's at least a chance something positive happens every once in a while.
|4 weeks 2 days ago||Alright, I'll bet against||
Alright, I'll bet against Michigan covering and hope I'm wrong. $20 bucks to ASPCA if I'm right (ugh).
|4 weeks 2 days ago||Does Jerry Kill not give||
Does Jerry Kill not give injury reports or tell the media who he expects to play either?
|4 weeks 2 days ago||If Hoke implemented this||
If Hoke implemented this policy when we were 11-2 it'd be a non-issue and possibly heralded as a return to The Fort missing under RR. As it is, it's just one more thing to bitch about and pile on to a coach in dire straits. Either way, of the things to be concerned about regarding Hoke and this team, this is so low on the list of importance that it doesn't even register.
|4 weeks 2 days ago||I also greatly respect Hoke,||
I also greatly respect Hoke, but at the end of the season if he needs to leave then so be it. Someone very succinctly put it that he's everything you want from a Michigan coach except winning. While it's hard to just trash all the other stuff, unfortunately it has to be down if the results on the field isn't there.
My only hopes right now is that
A) The team doesn't quit. That's not fair for the seniors, and it sets up poorly in 2015 for whomever is coaching.
B) I hope we as a fanbase can hold it together until the end of the season and not create an even more toxic atmosphere that will crater recruiting, kill the player's motivation, and ironically hamper potential future hires.
C) We can evaluate the situation at the end of the year clear-headedly and not out of ANGAR. It's a distinct possibility that there will be no good options available to replace Hoke. If that happens to be the case, I hope people can be open to the possibility of punting for a year and hoping a better option becomes available (or a turnaround, as unlikely as that is) and not be completely blinded by their hatred of the Hoke program to just go grab anyone as a replacement. This program simply can not survive another 3-4 year tenure of mediocrity. Whoever we hire needs to be a slam dunk.
|4 weeks 2 days ago||It's not too far for him to||
It's not too far for him to catch, but he doesn't have time to react. It's supposed to be a bang bang play. He didn't short arm it, he just didn't have time to fully extend.
|4 weeks 2 days ago||I can't blame the guy if he||
I can't blame the guy if he doesn't but he always seems to regret not doing them for the sake of completeness and sometimes even does them in the offseason when they're not really relevant anymore.
Personally, I would still appreciate UFRs through the end, but like I said, won't fault the guy if he doesn't
|4 weeks 2 days ago||Let's see... oh I dunno||
Michigan holds Minnesota to less than 100 yards rushing.
$20 bucks to ASPCA if I win.
|4 weeks 2 days ago||Paying my bet||
|4 weeks 2 days ago||You're right, Gardner doesn't||
You're right, Gardner doesn't seem to commit to when scrambling, often slowing to a jog to see how things develop or even stopping dead at times. It only leads to guys teeing up on him though.
He looked pretty athletic in the Spring Game and Fall Scrimmage, but you're right, he looks like end of 2013 Devin again only 4 games in. I really really feel for the kid, it just sucks to take shot after shot and be robbed of your natural athleticism.
|4 weeks 2 days ago||The functionality has come||
The functionality has come and gone for a while now.
|4 weeks 2 days ago||Coming off the bench in||
Coming off the bench in garbage time and then down 3 scores in the 4th isn't really a fair assessment of a guy. Even so, he's had at least two very bad drops and his INT against App St was more Darboh running a lazy route and not working back to the QB (and the throw being a bit late, but the same exact thing happened with Devin/Darboh against ND). His pick against Utah also wasn't a decision thing vs the ball just slipping out of his hand. They called the game due to weather right after that, so it's not exactly surprising he'd have issues gripping the ball.
With a week of practice as The Guy and a gameplan around him, he could be much better. His performance against KSU was decent, managed the game with short throws and easy reads. He might also look just as bad as he has in garbage time, who knows. At this point though, you gotta do something. If it doesn't work, we're right back where we are now except Devin getting an extra week's rest which he probably could use anyway. Hoke said it himself, sometimes a guy just needs to see things from the sidelines for a little bit.
|4 weeks 2 days ago||I'd be worried that they||
I'd be worried that they require different gameplans to succeed and the lack of practice time to implement both, but other than that, no, I wouldn't have a problem.
|4 weeks 2 days ago||1) Morris (ugh). It's a high||
1) Morris (ugh). It's a high risk gamble, and I absolutely hate the idea of benching Gardner on a personal level. But, we're at that point.
2) Mix. Depends on the matchup and opponent play style. I think Lewis and Peppers are pretty good at man coverage, so it doesn't scare me as much as at ND. If/when Wilson comes back, it will scare me less. Our safety play has been pretty shaky without him (both big plays were on safeties this game)
3) Go a little more aggressive on 1st and 2nd down. We aren't consistent enough to go down the field in chunks on a 15 play drive. We need it in chunks. I know that possibly/probably leaves us in 3rd and long if we don't connect, but we're doing that pretty regularly already. I just don't see the running game holding up to better teams anytime soon, not enough to take pressure off the QB's arm anyway.
Speaking of which, we should mix up the running game with some long hand offs, pitches, wheel routes, etc. The little shovel pass that Green dropped looked like it was going for a lot of yards for example.
4) Aside from the QB, I'd try to get some of the other receivers on the field more particularly Canteen. Chesson is a reliable guy that is a great blocker, but I don't really ever see any separation against better DBs. I'd get Hayes more carries too, we need some speed at times that Green and definitely Smith don't provide.
|4 weeks 2 days ago||I wouldn't be surprised if||
I wouldn't be surprised if they're not running him because he *is* hurt. Something's not right with his throwing motion and he has no velocity on the ball which has never been a problem for him. I don't recall a single designed run since ND.
For that matter, we've only gone deep maybe twice since then and both were way off. I don't think it's just play calling either as they've had no issues throwing deep with Shane, or running him even.
|4 weeks 3 days ago||Or it's possible the same||
Or it's possible the same person can succeed in one situation and fail in a different one.
|4 weeks 3 days ago||He's been somewhat victimized||
He's been somewhat victimized all season too. Lots of drops, the one INT was Darboh not working back to the QB (something that cost Gardner a pick at ND too), and that ball sailing on him this game probably had a lot to do with the weather as you say.
|4 weeks 3 days ago||(No subject)||
|4 weeks 3 days ago||This.People try to read so||
People try to read so much into how the sideline looks from 300 yards away in a 15 second shot. If you think guys standing around looking dejected means they don't love the team and aren't trying their absolute hardest then you're an idiot.
|4 weeks 3 days ago||Jesus, the "18-22 year olds"||
Jesus, the "18-22 year olds" he's refering to are the players, not the students. As in people should take it easy on 18-22 year old amatuer athletes. I don't know how anyone thinks he's insulting the students given the context.
|4 weeks 3 days ago||I'm just sick of people||
I'm just sick of people thinking they're entitled to be treated a certain way just because of how dedicated of fans they are. Just because you've been cheering for Michigan since you were a wee lad doesn't mean you get to pick your ticket price, or that Hoke needs to personally tell you injury statuses, etc.
|4 weeks 3 days ago||Fandom badge earned.||
Fandom badge earned.
|4 weeks 3 days ago||You might as well make a||
You might as well make a missing Borges thread too. When Denard was here, there was a huge part of the fan base that couldn't get rid of him fast enough. It funny how quickly people forget the threads calling for Gardner to play QB and moving Denard to RB.
|4 weeks 3 days ago||This is undoubtedly true but||
This is undoubtedly true but his play still has been a big part of the problem. It also happens to be the problem with the simplest potential solution. With OL, RB, and WR we're basically out of options. Various coaching issues are off-season fixes. QB is an easy one to try now. It might not work, in fact it probably won't, but we're at a point where we need to try.
|4 weeks 3 days ago||I'm not saying Morris is||
I'm not saying Morris is better, I'm saying you have to take that chance. You know what you have now with Devin and what you have is untenable and not likely to get better. In addition to the mental issues, Devin now looks physically unable to push the ball down field and defenses are starting to key in on that fact.
Morris has not looked great so far but there's a big difference between getting told mid game to strap on your helmet and having a week of preparation as The Guy and a gameplan created around your skills and weaknesses. A couple of starts may get him settled in. It might not, but like I said, you have to take that chance.
|4 weeks 3 days ago||Let's be honest here, I, like||
Let's be honest here, I, like I'm sure the majority of people, will still watch pretty much the same as always. We won't be as excited, we'll approach the game more cynically, we'll bitch more, but it's still going to be a big part of Saturdays for the remainder of the season.
|4 weeks 3 days ago||Money talks obviously but its||
Money talks obviously but its not the only consideration. In coaching, your track record is everything. Taking a risky job and potentially adding a blemish to your resume just isn't worth the risk unless it's a substantial raise. The more established a coach is, the higher the risk and the lower the chance that michigan can actually make a compelling offer compared to what they're already making. A lot of coaches aspire to reach an good program, build it up to stability under their identity, and stay within that relative security until retirement. It's really hard to pull guys already in that situation.
|4 weeks 3 days ago||Regarding consistently||
Regarding consistently gaining yards and not scoring, I don't think it's luck and that our yards just happen to come between the 20's. Our offensive style relys on stringing play after play after play together. It's like a self inflicted "bend don't break" for opposing defenses. We don't (or can't) push the ball downfield, we can't run the high percentage running plays consistently, we constantly get to 3rd and long and have to convert low percentage plays, etc. There's just not much room for error when you play that way. I haven't decided if I'll do my diary this week covering how drives ended, but from memory anytime we had a penalty or sack or negative play, the drive was pretty much doomed.
|4 weeks 3 days ago||You, like the poster above,||
You, like the poster above, are missing the point, my intention is not to bash RR, we know the story there. I'm not even trying to blame RR for what's happening now (it's beyond OL recruiting at this point). It just annoys me that people try to discredit Hoke for 2011, probably like how people trying to discredit the difficulties RR had to deal with annoys you (and me).
You don't go from 7-6 to 11-2 by just getting a year older, you don't go from one of the worst defenses to one of the best by just getting a year older. You have to develop in that year, which happened under Hoke and Co. You have to have a coherent scheme and coaching, which also was provided by Hoke and Co. Like I said, there's plenty to bitch about, let's not try to reinvent the past and take away Hoke's legitimate accomplishments.
|4 weeks 3 days ago||Is your mouth joystick||
Is your mouth joystick broken?