I don't expect a board free of idiots. The best I can hope for is a tone set to marginalize the idiocy.
The problem is that the opinion has been based previously on copius amounts of analysis and thought. The ESPN scroll says that Hoke is 47-50. It's a complex situation with good aspects and bad aspects. Simplifying the discussion does it no justice on either side. This simplification in turn leads to even more simplified analysis on the boards or worse, just parroting Brian's ideas.
I was all for Rodriguez. I still wanted him to stay, even when the evidence was building at the end of the year. I have reservations about Hoke. I can also see the reason a change was necessary. It isn't a worry about the opinion expressed, which I have agreed with Brian on more than not, but the simplifications made to back up the arguments.
I think that the response that Meeeechigan Dan is getting speaks volumes. Wendyk5, JimHarbaughScramble, and the others that go back to the haloscan days understand what the OP is saying. There is a problem with the boards and it takes someone to stand up and say it. I wouldn't advocate taking your ball and going home, but something has gone wrong.
From one old poster to another, I completely understand what you are saying. I haven't written much in years, but I enjoyed our discussions a couple of years ago, especially the halo scan days. You have been one of the original contributors (though won't miss the avatar).
I am not going to quit the site as you are suggesting you are doing. However, I understand your feeling. The banner especially is beneath what this site is about. I think Brian is a brilliant writer. I have enjoyed the addition of TomVH and the growth of the professionalism of the site. However, the tone has devolved.
You are right. I think that there are misinterpretations all the time, and I get that. But the point is to post less, have something to say, and lay off the negativity. And ironically, do it under 1,000 words, which clearly I could not.
I have listened quietly for a long time now, and this just typifies why the posting has devolved. UMIndy, this is a fine post. Don't let the negativity get to you. In the past, the quality posters like Meeechigan Dan, Jaime Mac, Jim Harbaugh Scramble, Kgh, Magnus, etc... would respectfully discuss the safety play of both teams and if there wasn't much to say then leave it alone.
Some of the people who have the highest points somehow feel emboldened to give their opinion on the quality of post instead of enhancing the discussion. So let's say it is a bad post (which this clearly isn't), do you add to the replies so that people will click on the thread because they think there is a discussion ongoing. Or should you leave it as a 1 reply thread that we can ignore. If you have over 3,000 points, you might want to consider if you actually have 3,000 points worth of things to say. Saying that you should look something up on the internet instead of discussing it here, kind of misses the point.
How can our desperate need at safety/ corner, combined with our rollercoaster recruitment of a top player at our position of need with whom we were leading for, followed by his spurning us for a hated coach (at the time because of his lobbying against Carr in 06), followed by a transfer into a Big Ten school not named Michigan, and his disappearing act at a position which would have been the key at stopping the big plays which defined this past Saturday's game, not be a relevant topic for discussion. We are a couple of linebackers/ corners away from being a top ten team. Finch and RoJo were two big fish (among others) that got away which would have completed the team. Should Brian not have discussed the recruiting failings that left us in the position that we are in today. Finch was a major part of that. We have had some decent classes but a couple of key positions have had major late disappointments. This is why we are a good but not great team.
I am interested to hear if Finch just doesn't have it and the recruiting hype was all wet. Or did the injury slow him down to the point that he can't play at the one position (Indiana safety) which is historically the worst in the Big Ten. I defy you to find a worse position. IU's lack of athletic ability has always been most evident in their safety play. Seems to still be true today by the big plays we had, some which were slow to develop around the corner but still broke to the house.
If you don't like this topic, how about worst position at any big ten school. I would be interested if my analysis of IU safety is actually the worst. Purdue seems to have good D ends/ outside linebackers, but no one in the middle. Iowa always seems to have underachieving receivers.
Brian,
What's your take on the blogger and Ibanez. I just watched two reporters badger a blogger on ESPN OTL because he said that players that are having career years late in their careers are under suspicion. I think this fairly summarizes what every baseball fan thinks. Ken Rosenthal came across really poorly.
IMO, As a voice of the fan a blog is expected to say things that the MSM wouldn't. I would be interested in what you think should have been done in this case. I tend to side with the blogger.
Let's just entertain for a second that USC is rampantly cheating and that the meteoric rise is because of illicit activities. Where do you think our program is if we did not have to run into USC in the Rose Bowl in 2004 and 2007. Let's just say that we had more Washington State-like foes, like in 97-98.
Do these seasons end in wins and a generally better feeling throughout the program? Or do you think we end up at the same point with Rodriguez at the helm. Not that it matters, but I found it interesting to day dream. I think the 2007 victory would have defined that as a great season that would have lingered in the fans memories for a while.
It isn't that they are just renting players, it is that I suspect that they are the type of players that are handled by agents and funnelled to certain types of programs. I have nothing to back this up with, other than Calipari's shady past and current success. The Uconn story is shady, an my first reaction is that there are other programs that seem much more suspicious than them. USC and Memphis first came to mind.
Since there do not seem to be rental schools in the Big Ten, it hurts us as a league.
I see Calipari as the polar opposite of Beilein. I hope he goes to Kentucky and flames out.
Didn't want to start a full new thread, but I realize it's a bit of a non-sequitir. While I watch Memphis on TV, it reminds me that this is the team I would most like to see go through an Iowa-like implosion.
I think that the possible Uconn investigation is affecting Memphis more than it did Uconn. Since the first two rows behind the Mepmphis bench are probably agents of some sort, I suspect they are playing nervous that this revelation will start a crackdown of sorts. They stand the most to lose as, to me, they are the posterchild for NCAA basketball gone wrong. (And yes, this is hyperbole).
I beleive they might have 3 of the top 5 players in next year's class. Ugh. Rent-a-player for 1 year.
Chally, we have all been wrong before. No sweat, I like that you put your opinon out there for all to see (you know it will be attacked in some way). UCLA did not look remotely like a team coached by Howland. I thought they would lose (in a close one like yourself), but didn't expect them to give up and look heartless. I will say that playing a road game in the tournament is not fair.
Makes me worry about Purdue later today. Purdue may have had the worst seeding of a big ten tournament champ since it's inception (not just the seed but the location).
I just have to wonder if Collison is more hurt than we thought. Jrue Holliday has to be teh biggest freshman disappointment, or am I missing someone?
Matta should have fouled at the end of the first overtime. I know it is debatable but in that situation I think it was more obvious than normal. Sienna had momentum and just seemed to be ready to make the shot.
I like Purdue in that game. I think that Painter will find a way to defend the big guys and Kramer will shut down the "little Zeke".
Kramer versus an inexperienced point guard equals Big Ten style victory. If Isiah Thomas is shut down, then Purdue can focus on collapsing inside. Of course the location isn't ideal but I think they overcome (the horrible seed and location).
I am still in shock that Ohio State managed to give that game away, while Wisconsin absolutely steals one from a much better Florida State team. Overall, I think that it ended up a push for you. The next three wins are somewhat difficult to find. Purdue with MSU twice? Purdue, MSU, and an upset? Or Michigan wins and I stop caring because everything ceases to matter anymore because of how happy I will be. I can see it happening but I'm just happy to be here.
The big ten is at least making it interesting. I wouldn't have cared much about these games if it wasn't for Digger Phelps.
Big Ten is 2 and 0 against the ACC. Beat two good teams too.
OSU can not let that kid shoot an open three with 4 seconds left. He was wide open. Beilein >> Matta (except perhaps in a living room talking to recruits).
I am surprised to hear some say that we might need three more victories, while ESPN is saying the Purdue win puts us in (which I realize is a boldfaced lie. And when did it become ok to flat out lie on television to hype a game.) Even people that follow this closely though seem to differ in the number of games that we need between two or three.
Can someone (i.e. jamiemac) recap our tournament resume in depth, since depth seems to be his thing. From what I can tell, we are 4 and 5 against ranked teams, though Espn has us at 3 and 4 in the recap of last night's game (I count Purdue, Illinois, Duke, UCLA versus Uconn, Duke, MSU, Purdue, Illinois). The big ten is 2nd overall in rpi, which should help. Michigan's rpi is ok, but not great if I recall. I still hope that they give us the de facto win over Indiana at home that our schedule took from us (what did Brian call it, a Functional DNP (and yes I realize what happened in that game)). I've heard the win over Northeastern could help but they are now second or third in their league. No marquee road wins are a factor.
What else am I missing?
You, sir, are good at what you do. Maybe it's not for everyone and a bit deeper than other people want, but there are some, like me, that appreciate every detail. There is so much going on in college basketball that it is easy to glaze over when looking at the scoreboard.
Question to Jamie Mac (or anyone), do you think that the selection committee is sophisticated enough to account for the fact that we played Indiana only once (and on the road at that). If we finish tied with Ohio State (or Wiscy or Penn State) or even one game back, do they account for strength of league schedule. Particularly when there is an anomalous team like IU (sorry to say it to you but they are really terrible this year, even if playing hard). Or do they look at league record only?
I don't know what I expected the recruiting experience to be like, but I had hoped it was what was on those tapes. That is at once wholesome and impressive without being overly cheesy. Wide-eyed players experiencing the campus and the coaches with thier families, soaking up the experience and the history. Good stuff.
Jamie Mac,
This is the most informative info posted all day. Suprised there weren't more hits.
Just a suggestion, I think the hoops blog umhoops.com could use some analysis like this (i.e. what other games are on that could effect the UM bball team). I think that he is having trouble keeping up with all of the features that he is running by himself and could use some info like this added in some way. Just a thought. I of course come here first for info, but the basketball stuff over there is deeper than here.
Either way, I say you continue it. I can't afford to put much action down, so I can live vicariously through you.
So the response to getting a taunting penalty is to say that is the first time he has ever done anything wrong.
This is sickening. I hate Tebow to no fault of his own.
I want to have that quote by the commentator so that when I win a bet with my wife she has to pull it out and read it.
"He is just an AMAZING man. Lived in orpahanages, lived with lepers...."
JHS,
Lions need to draft interior (O or D). I am in the Orlovsky camp. It is a bit lonely.
Maybe this game mkes us realize we don't want a QB (I hate Stafford by the way).
So Lions fans (JHS, others), which of these quarterbacks do you want? I was really hoping Bradford was great and we coudl trade down. Not happening now.
So, Florida has had 4 possesions inside thier own 10 where the teams didn't score. Two Mike Hart fumbles and now these poor play calls.
Why does no one buy into the fact that they are way overrated. They are lucky to be into this just like last year.
The Big Ten has the most BCS selections (19 to Pac Ten's 13 as an example) and therefore we have always played one game ahead of our assigned slot in the bowls. This is why you get ridiculous games like Illinois versus USC and Indiana-Okie State last year. This year we got FSU-Wisconsin, Kansas-Minnesota and Michigan State - Georgia. Not good odds going in. Move everyone down a nothc and see how it goes.
SEC is very overrated and I am hoping that Florida is exposed. This is nominally the same team that we put 500 yards on last year.
I take it back. I couldn't do it and rooted for Texas when all was said and done. The negativity surrounding the OSU program will benefit us and there was nothing they could do to change North versus south perceptions.
As always, you have to hate OSU. But..
Reading this recent ESPN recruiting article makes me sick. An interview of top recruits says they are all convinced that Florida will win the NC based on the SEC speed advantage. Many of these kids also happen to be going to the SEC. Ohio State beating Texas won't change the Big Ten's perception (I realize Texas is not in the SEC), but the overall perception of a slow, plodding big ten is bad for us. OSU beating Texas wouldn't hurt.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/football/news/story?id=380737…
The lowlights that I quote below is that they are all convinced of the SEC myth. Each one of them. Someone remind them that when Tennessee, LSU, and Auburn have down years, that means the conference has a down year. Florida still has the defense that we put up 524 yards on last year. Did they get an influx of speed in this past recruiting class?
"Jenkins: Florida will win with its speed. I don't think Oklahoma sees speed like that on a weekly basis. Since my Redskins are out, I don't know. I can't go for the Eagles or Giants because they are in the same division as the Skins.
Martin: Florida will win with speed. The Super Bowl is an easy one; I'm a huge Indianapolis Colts fan.
Patterson: Florida has the speed. The Falcons will win the Super Bowl. I'm from Georgia.
Shepard: Florida will win because of Tim Tebow's leadership and the overall speed of the SEC. The Super Bowl is too tight to call.
Te'o: Florida has a game-changer like Tim Tebow and the overall team speed. Since the 49ers can't win the Super Bowl -- that's my favorite team -- I'll go with the Baltimore Ravens. Ray Lewis is my idol; I look up to him and emulate him."
They forgot to mention that we have had a championship caliber team in Detroit for my entire lifetime. Red Wings, Pistons, or Tigers are always alternatingly competetive. Lions, well ok but that is partially Andre Ware's fault in the first place. They should have had a section on how they drafted Ware in the top ten of the first round and how he couldn't unseat Rodney Peete.
What are the thoughts on the line after today's set of games. Notre Dame is anything but impressive. We didn't change too many minds either. I think it moves back to the original line. It is a pick em with the home field advantage moving it in thier favor. No way is it double digits after this game.
No, it's not bad. I need to know that losing Rodriguez makes a huge dent in thier program. You always hate to have the ex hum along without missing a beat.
Recent Comments
I don't expect a board free of idiots. The best I can hope for is a tone set to marginalize the idiocy.
The problem is that the opinion has been based previously on copius amounts of analysis and thought. The ESPN scroll says that Hoke is 47-50. It's a complex situation with good aspects and bad aspects. Simplifying the discussion does it no justice on either side. This simplification in turn leads to even more simplified analysis on the boards or worse, just parroting Brian's ideas.
I was all for Rodriguez. I still wanted him to stay, even when the evidence was building at the end of the year. I have reservations about Hoke. I can also see the reason a change was necessary. It isn't a worry about the opinion expressed, which I have agreed with Brian on more than not, but the simplifications made to back up the arguments.
I think that the response that Meeeechigan Dan is getting speaks volumes. Wendyk5, JimHarbaughScramble, and the others that go back to the haloscan days understand what the OP is saying. There is a problem with the boards and it takes someone to stand up and say it. I wouldn't advocate taking your ball and going home, but something has gone wrong.
Meechigan Dan,
From one old poster to another, I completely understand what you are saying. I haven't written much in years, but I enjoyed our discussions a couple of years ago, especially the halo scan days. You have been one of the original contributors (though won't miss the avatar).
I am not going to quit the site as you are suggesting you are doing. However, I understand your feeling. The banner especially is beneath what this site is about. I think Brian is a brilliant writer. I have enjoyed the addition of TomVH and the growth of the professionalism of the site. However, the tone has devolved.
This is the most
Lions need to draft
They forgot to mention that we have had a championship caliber team in Detroit for my entire lifetime. Red Wings, Pistons, or Tigers are always alternatingly competetive. Lions, well ok but that is partially Andre Ware's fault in the first place. They should have had a section on how they drafted Ware in the top ten of the first round and how he couldn't unseat Rodney Peete.
So it didn't look great, but if Lopata makes a makeable field goal and an extra point then we tie the spread.
It therefore looks like this went like everyone (Vegas) thought it might.