Can Michigan please stop chasing 5 stars? I don't care if they are related to you. I don't care if other schools make it work. I've thought for many years that one and dones are massive risks. Chances are they will leave before they really contribute anything to the program.
Michigan's program has been decimated in the last two years because of three one and dones that have done little to help the program, and then bolted. Good for them for getting paid, but it's hurt the program severely. Send the 5 stars to Kentucky and go for solid 4 stars if you can. By the time they are sophomores or juniors they will be as good as a five star, and will actually help the program in the meantime.
OSU just beat Clemson by 21. Clemson would beat Michigan by 60, if they felt like it. Even if Clemson felt sorry for Michigan and tried to hold the score down they'd win by 7 touchdowns. There's only so much you can do to avoid scoring in a game where you completely outclass your opponent. I doubt Michigan could compete with Clemson's second string. They might have a chance against the Clemson 3rd string. Maybe. In a hypothetical Clemson-Michigan matchup with Clemson giving 42 points, I'd take Clemson and give the points.
Given the above, the best part about the 2020 football season was that Michigan's ended early. We didn't have to suffer through what would likely be the most humiliating OSU loss yet. We didn't have to suffer watching Michigan get their asses kicked in the Who Gives a Shit Bowl.
This is about way more than Harbaugh. It's not about his contract. It's about Michigan's place in college football. It's about Michigan's prominence in the sport. Is Michigan unable to compete at this level? Or is it unwilling? There's obviously a huge difference between the two.
Michigan football has been a mediocre, at best, program for quite some time. Is the administration fine with that? If so they must realize that mediocre programs don't get preferential time slots to play their games. Mediocre programs do not get preferential network broadcasts. Mediocre programs do not get preferential days to play their games. No one talks about or cares about mediocre programs. Mediocre programs have little influence in their leagues.
Is there any reason that OSU/Michigan is the marquee regular season B10 game? Other than tradition, I mean? Michigan clearly isn't OSU's rival anymore. And won't be for the foreseeable future. I'd argue that honor goes to PSU. At least they can step on the field with OSU. If OSU/Michigan were moved to mid-season, or if OSU and Michigan were put in different divisions and only played every 2 or 3 years, would anyone care other than Michigan fans who would take that as a slap in the face? Would OSU fans even care at this point? They must be bored with Michigan's ineptitude by now. I can't imagine anyone outside of Michigan cares anymore.
I'm not a part of the athletic department so I have no idea what internal discussions are taking place. But if the conversation is solely about whether to extend Harbaugh then I'll be disappointed. The conversation needs to be much larger than that. There is no law that says Michigan gets to have a prominent place in college football nationally. There is no law that says that Michigan gets to be a marquee B10 team. Just like there is no law that says that Detroit gets to continue being one of the best and most wealthy cities in the nation like it was 70 years ago. If you are incompetent long enough things change. Hopefully Michigan's administration understands that and plans accordingly.
I don't want to see two teams from the same conference in a 4 team playoff. Not even if its the B10. I don't care if 2 of the best 4 teams are from the same conference, I don't want to see it. The fact its the SEC is largely irrelevant to me. Want to have a playoff? Invite a spectrum of teams. Turning it into the SEC (or P12, ACC, etc.) invitational is not of the slightest interest to me.
I will not watch a single down of this game.
"Borderline" unwinnable, genius. MSU and OSU will be much better next year. That is a given. ND will have a whole summer to prepare for Brown's defense. Look what S Carolina did to it in just a few weeks. Brian Kelly isn't stupid. He'll be ready.
What have you seen that gives you confidence that this current staff will have this offense remotely prepared to take on those teams in hostile environments? I'll give you a hint. They won't. If Michigan's defense goes from being superhuman to merely really good, those are losses.
I still don't understand why the AD traded a home game against Arkansas for an away game at ND. That has to be one of the stupidest scheduling decisions I've ever seen. Yes, I know it was to smooth out the revenue stream, but at the expense of a probable loss when Michigan can't afford one. Michigan is staring at 3 borderline unwinnable games next year because of it. ND, MSU and OSU on the road are almost certain losses. And I don't see how this team beats PSU or UW at home. Stupid, stupid decision.
I don't see how it's even that close. I think Michigan is going to get killed in an incredibly embarrassing way. If this game were played 100 times, Michigan would lose 100 times. I expect Malzone to play half the game because Peters is out and JOK will get injured behind our so called offensive line. Our defense will wilt because they know we have no chance whatsoever. This loss will be one for the history books.
There. That's the best I can do to jinx the outcome. Hopefully that ensures the opposite of everything I just wrote happens.
Until Michigan demonstrates that it can actually teach linemen how to block, run a competent offense, and earn the right to play in meaningful championship type games, they have to expect that the Alabama's, OSU's, Clemson's etc. of the world will have an edge when it comes to recruiting. It's not rocket science.
Harbaugh is an excellent coach. And I believe he will raise Michigan to a championship level eventually. But at some point the team has to deliver and, especially for offensive line recruits, show that they have the ability to develop them. In three years the best the line has looked was last year, and they were average at best. This year the line has been a disaster, shown zero improvement, and is ulikely to show any before the season is over. Why wouldn't he go to Alabama if given the chance?
Why is Michigan ranked at all? The team that played last night is undoubtedly not one of the 25 best in the country. And Michigan will need to materially improve for it to have a chance of being true before year end.
My rooting guide for the playoffs is for PSU/OSU/UW to not embarrass the B10 like OSU did last year.
As for Michigan, I think two losses against UW and OSU are a given. And will probably be blowouts (20+ pts). This team has shown no ability whatsoever to compete against elite teams.
The most disappointing thing is that they have shown no improvement this year. The best this team looked was in the first game against Florida. And Florida is a mediocre team, as we now know. Since then Michigan has struggled to compete against mediocre teams, generally eeking out a win late. Or losing, as was the case with MSU. But against an elite team, Michigan got curb stomped. They did not belong on the field with PSU.
Again, the biggest problem is that Michigan has shown no improvement. They emphatically are not getting better. And if they haven't shown a modicum of improvement by now, I have doubts they will at all this year. If that's the case, then mediocre is the ceiling for this team.
Here's the problem. Rutgers, Minnesota and Maryland are also mediocre teams, which means all three are coin flip games. Three coin flips means that Michigan is highly likely to lose one of those three in addition to OSU and UW. Which makes them a 7-5 team with a mid December bowl date.
Not sure that's worth $9 million per year. Michigan is not getting what it paid for. No, I don't want to see Harbaugh gone. That's insane. But questions about the coaching are going to get asked, and they should. $9 million should buy you competitiveness at least.
I'm pretty mellow about the team now. I was mad as hell last week, but the sheer incompetence of the offense has forced me to have a radical adjustment in my expectations. This is an 8-4 or 7-5 team. A CFP caliber defense will be wasted because Michigan has a MAC level offense.
Like most people, I was eager to see what O'Korn could do even before Speight got hurt. The second half against Purdue gave me hope. But we've seen the real O'Korn now. He's well below average. He's one of the worst QBs in the B10.
If nothing else, this should renew everyone's faith in Harbaugh. He was playing Speight for a reason. He's the best QB on the roster. By far, bar none. He wasn't keeping O'Korn on the bench because he felt like it. It's because O'Korn sucks.
So why should faith in Harbaugh be reinforced? Because after watching O'Korn, anyone calling for Peters to start is insane. For Peters to not be playing right now, he must be A LOT WORSE than O'Korn. A....LOT....WORSE. We know his track record for developing high level quarterbacks. What Harbaugh did with Rudock is amazing. I'm confident either Peters or McCaffrey will be ready to take the reins next year. But they are obviously not ready now.
Now that I expect at least 3 more losses this year, I actually feel better when watching the games. When you expect little, it's hard to be disappointed.
Is that he is a better coach than Harbaugh. Period, dot, end of story. It's not debatable at this point. Give Dantonio this talent and he'd be in the CFP, and probably win a game.
It doesn't sound like it, but I'm a huge Harbaugh fan. That said, this game was a joke. I don't want to hear how young this team is. Figure out what they can do well, and fucking do it. Expand the playbook once they are competent at some things. And, for next year apparently, have one guy with the sole responsibility of the offensive line. I refuse to believe that a line with a 5th year senior, true senior, redshirt sophomore and two true sophomores has to be this bad. Both Drevno and Frey have a track record of developing good offensive lines. But something is getting lost in translation by sharing the duties.
I didn't see the whole Dantonio press conference but he wasn't as much of an asshole as he typically is after one of these games from what I saw. Maybe he knows he's proven he's the better coach and can lower the level of his asshole-ness. Maybe he knows he got away with winning a game he had no business winning. Or maybe he knows that he isn't facing RichRod or Hoke anymore and he'd better be careful in case Harbaugh finally figures this shit out.
This will be the second straight year that Michigan has a CFP defense and a much worse offense. What a waste. Better lock up Brown with a lifetime contract now, so we can be sure he's here in case Michigan ever develops a complementary offense. Maybe then Michigan can finally finish above 3rd in the B10 East.
Whatever, Michigan is an 8-4 team, at best. Losses to PSU, WSU and OSU are a given. The only real mystery is if O'Korn will fuck up another game and drop us to 7-5 and a late December bowl game. Fucking joke.
I wonder how much of it is using both zone and gap blocking schemes? If the linemen seem confused, which they undoubtedly are, maybe its because there is too much on their plate to master to be any good at both types of schemes. On a lot of those stunts, it looks like the guards and tackles are expecting the other to do something different than what they end up doing, with the result being that a guy comes through untouched. One zigs while the other zags. If so, this will only get better with time. Or maybe Kugler is making bad calls, in which case it won't get better until next year.
Michigan started three 5th year seniors on the OL last year, none of whom were drafted. Michigan lost three games by five points combined last season, mostly because they couldn't run the ball against top tier defenses. If those three OL were worth even 5th or 6th round picks, Michigan goes undefeated and is in the playoffs. I highly doubt Michigan would have won it all, but they would have been there. Once the OL is set, which should be this year or next, this team will be on a par with Alabama, Clemson, etc. The CFP would be a reasonable goal every year at that point.
If he can make millions, he should go for it. If this is the best shot at maximizing his value, so be it.
But, as I prefer college basketball to the NBA, I'm disappointed. In my view, some things need to change.
The draft deadline needs to moved up a couple of weeks. Michigan had a shot at Mo Bamba. If Mo Bamaba chose Texas over Kentucky because of the education and alumni network, he could have easily chosen Michigan. How hard could Beilien pursue him if he didn't know if he had a scholarship available? Waiting until almost June killed Beilien's roster management.
Beilien still needs to work on his recruiting. DJ Wilson had moments, but overall only an okay contributor this year. He didn't make any All B10 teams, not even honorable mention. That means it's the judgement of the media and coaches that there are at least 23 players better than DJ in the B10 alone. And no one in their right mind thinks DJ can contribute next year to an NBA roster. If he gets drafted in the first round, a big if (I don't care what Utah says) he's most likely on the end of the bench for a few years. If he couldn't handle that guy from Oregon, he'll get killed in the NBA, where literally every single player will make that Oregon guy look small and slow by comparison. Anyway, Beilien has to find guys that contribute in a big way to the team before they take off for the NBA. Getting a few weeks production before they leave isn't cutting it.
Personally, selfishly, I want to see Michigan compete for titles. They made an unbelievable in-season turnaround and DJ was a part of that. But seeing a team finally come together with a chance to seriously compete for titles next year only to watch a key cog take off at the last possible moment for a dubious draft slot is frustrating.
That said, good luck to him. Hopefully his decision proves to be a wise one.
plus or minus 1. This team has little talent, is physically weak, mentally weak and is poorly coached. The NIT is a best case scenario. If Michigan wants to go.
How Beilien has coached in prior years is irrelevant to this discussion. This year, this team is shit.
Somewhere around 4 years ago, Beilien lost his ability to identify, recruit and develop people who know how to play basketball. It's an amazing drop off, culminating in a freshman class that has given close to zero contribution this year, in a sport where freshman frequently lead their teams to conference titles and sometimes national titles. Furthermore, this team is unlikely to improve next year. They will probably be worse.
Losing the ability to do what you've done for decades is not unusual. Ken Holland has clearly lost it with the Red Wings, Berenson has clearly lost it for Michigan hockey, Woody Hayes lost it at the end. And so on. It happens all the time. And it's time to think about adding Beilien to this list.
Michigan lost to Illinois a few days ago, and the thread topped out at 108 comments, to your point. 108 comments is not a lot no matter how you look at it and I contend is a sign of fan apathy. The AD may put up with a lot from the BB program, but students not giving a shit will force him to do something eventually. The idea that the trials and tribulations of football recruiting generate 4 or 5 times as much interest as an actual basketball game is a symptom of a much larger malaise. It can't continue.
55 comments (so far) for this thread, 200 comments on Antjuan Simmons, a linebacker Michigan didn't really want, committing to MSU. 4x as many comments.
Didn't get a chance to see the game, but I wonder how many students showed up? Was the arena at capacity? 90%? 50%? Bet it was a lot closer to 50% than 100%.
because we'll care even less by then. We won't be writing anything unless things bet better.
There are around 200 responses to the latest Aubrey Solomon rumor and only 40-ish comments- so far- for an actual conference game that ended several hours ago. Few care now and that number will continue to dwindle.
as long as Beilien is there. This is his ceiling. The thought that he would bring superior coaching with access to better recruits was a good one. But it hasn't worked, obviously. He did accidentally recruit several pros at the same time. That was fun. Hands up for anyone who thinks he'll do that again. Didn't think so.
He runs a clean program and reliably produces bubble-ish teams that are a threat to win a game in the tournament. At some point the administration has to decide if this is all they want. If so, fine. But hopefully they realize that most Michigan fans will not care about a mediocre team. For example, look at this blog. There is ten times more interest in football recruiting than an actual game that was played just a little while ago. Sad.
I don't get all the happiness about only losing by 20 to UCLA. I don't care where UCLA is ranked. Michigan gave up 100 points. That's ridiculous. If Michigan doesn't shoot lights out in the first half they lose by 40+. That's what happens in a money game.
The two year stretch of having a team that is actually capable of competing at a national level is clearly the exception, not the rule for this program. Belien flat out can't get it done at this level consistently. Michigan under Beilien is more like Wichita State or Marquette than MSU. This is the program's ceiling. Make the tournament and win a game. That's it. Maybe if he can accidentally find a couple of NBA caliber players again they can do a little more. But I wouldn't count on Beilien getting that lucky again.
At some point the powers that be need to decide if this is what they want for the program. If so, fine. Hopefully they understand the student disinterest and declining attendance will only get worse. Which will make it harder to recruit good players since elite players don't want to play in empty gyms. Maybe that's all they want? Again fine but that also means MSU has higher standards for their basketball program than Michigan has for theirs. Weird.
but its hard for me to care about this game. Michigan is the second best team in the nation and gakked their way down to 6th and out of the playoffs. Yes, the officiating against OSU was terrible and tipped the scales just enough, but Michigan really screwed up at the end of the year.
If the CFPcommittee had a chance to put in Michigan, they would have. Since they didn't, they put PSU ahead so they can't be accused of ignoring the B10 champs.
And if PSU is bothered about not getting into the playoff, they can blame themselves and MSU. PSU lost to Pitt, not a bad loss but still a loss. And no one wants to see an unqualified team bumble around in the semifinals again like MSU last year.
At the end of the day, Michigan screwed up. Everyone knows Michigan is one of the 4 best teams in America. But the loss to Iowa was inexcusable. Iowa is a decent team, but Michigan is much better this year. Should have never lost. The officiating at OSU was horrible, and everyone knows that. It tipped the game to OSU. But 3 turnovers was the majority of the reason Michigan lost.
Colorado has won its first two games by impressive margins. I expect Michigan to win, and probably win easily, but I expect this to be much more of a contest than the Hawaii or UCF. It wouldn't surprise me if the final score is within 20 points. I hope not, but that's my gut.
I worked in the towers at the time. Fortunately for me I was at a meeting outside my office, otherwise I'd have been running for my life or quite possibly dead. I lost a lot of friends that day.
is Ricky Doyle. He is undeniably worse this year than last year. Take Ricky Doyle from last year, give him a normal sophomore leap, and this team would suddenly be competitive with the teams that have blown us out. Not only has he not developed, but he has regressed. It's the same with most of the team. Almost all of them are same/worse than last year.
It's more than just athleticism. You can adjust to teams that are more athletic than you are. These guys just don't seem to know how to play basketball. Being a teacher is supposed to be Beilien's strength. Where has that gone?
What will hurt Beilien is taking guys that need to be developed, which I'm fine with, and suddenly losing the ability to develop them. That's how you end up with mediocre teams with first weekend of NCAA tournament ceilings. That will wear thin quickly.
The officiating was horrific. No 50/50 call went against MSU. The targeting call was insane and led to 7 points, The Willie Henry late hit was questionable at best and led to 7 points. Did they even blow the whistle? Jake Butt made that catch, which may have been a first down. Every freaking close call was reviewed, and invariably went for MSU.
And yes, the MSU player made that catch and it was a poor call by the officials. But so what? Since when does every fucking call get reviewed? Every bad call against Michigan was allowed to stand, but it almost felt like the officials were on a mission to make sure MSU got every benefit of the doubt. Did a bad call go against MSU the entire game? Anything?
Rudock cannot make an accurate pass beyond 20 yards. It's killing this offense. I'm not down on Rudock. He is what he is. If Shane were better, he'd be playing. Blame Hoke for no QB worth starting on the roster.
And Michigan's defense breaks down for the first time all year. Unreal.
And Connor Cook dropping in perfect passes into 1 inch windows.
And despite all that Michigan should have won. Just think what will happen when Michigan finally has pro caliber QBs and WRs on the roster again.
MSU got very, very lucky today. God basically intervened to help them win. And they know it. They better hope that Dantonio doesn't skip town to South Carolina. He knows the score and knows the days of dominance are over.
Enjoy the win, MSU. You will get very, very, very few in the future. There is no Connor Cook to drop perfect passes into 1 inch windows next year. And I can't imagine God is going to help you out again with insane officiating and lucky bounces.
Beilien fell in love with under the radar talents because so many panned out over the last couple of years. Normally, they become useful in year three in a program, if ever. That's why they are under the radar talents.
If any coach can take this mess and make it a real team its Beilien. But please, if you are going to take fliers on unknown 3 stars, at least let them be 6'11".
This is an NIT team at best. And its not going to get better anytime soon. This team needs more size. Beilien got caught flat footed when McGary was suspended and Horford decided to leave so he could launch 3 pointers for Florida. The lack of an inside presence is killing this team. Doyle is a year away at least from being able to hold his own inside against real competition. Donnell probably never will.
You can only find so many 3 star diamonds in the rough. I would he have rather saved those scholarships that he used at the last minute to recruit some size next year.
Please, for the love of God, recruit someone taller than 6'9" next year. Michigan will not contend for national titles without one.
Yes, its fair to question Hoke why Drake hasn't seen the field. I know it's only Indiana, but I do not think Smith or Green would have made those cuts, and certainly don't have that speed. Drake and Justice have shown far better vision than either of Smith or Green.
It's not just Drake's performance today that makes you wonder. It's Thomas Rawls being a 1,000 yard rusher and averaging 5.5 ypc, or Josh Furman being an integral part of Ok State's defense. Other teams take Michigan's castoffs and make them productive players. Yet another negaive for Hoke.
People should lay off Devin Gardner. Yes, he isn't a very good quarterback, but virtually none of that is his fault. He has tremendous physical skills, is smart and hardworking. If his quarterback decisionmaking is poor, it is solely because of coaching. Blaming DG for that is like blaming a student for being bad at math when he has a math illiterate as a teacher. Or giving a student a failing grade in English when his teacher doesn't even speak the language. Add to it that he has been beaten to a bloody pulp because of horrific offensive line play and you have a quarterback that plays like he has PTSD.
With proper coaching, DG had 1st round potential and possibly millions of dollars from the NFL in his future. Instead he is unlikely to play in the NFL at all, and certainly not at quarterback if he does. On his way out the door, Hoke should apologize to DG for destroying his athletic future.
By just looking at the boards its pretty clear that losses don't sting many people anymore. It's been replaced by apathy for the most part. Just look at the threads. It looks like the comments for the various threads are about half of what they were just a few weeks ago. Maybe less. Most people don't even care enough to comment, or even logon to the site. Sad.
and that is closer to how I actually feel. But you're right. The chances this team improves enough to win more than 3 games this year is about 0%. My recurring nightmare is that somehow any of these idiots come back next year.
Only thing I feel is that every loss brings Michigan closer to a new regime. I'm actually concerned that somehow this team improves enough to somehow convince the powers that be to keep Brandon/Hoke for another year.
Ole Miss isn't a laughingstock. It's mediocre. There's a big difference.
As for Michigan, it's not about the games they lost- and some they won- it's how they did it which caused Michigan to become a laughingstock this year.
Last second miracle finishes against Akron and Uconn are a joke.
Not belonging on the same field with MSU is a joke. MSU was clearly the better team, but they embarrassed Michigan. They literally should have not been on the field with MSU.
The Iowa and Nebraska games were a joke.
The bowl game was the biggest joke of all. Apparently no one wanted to be there and they humiliated themselves far more than KSU did.
If you have that many joke games in a year then you become a laughingstock. Which this program is currently. Only Hoke and/or Brandon can change that.
Michigan is a laughingstock now, and top recruits don't go to laughingstock programs. Unless/until this staff shows that it can compete at the highest level, develop talent, and stop being a laughingstock, it will continue the recent trend of whiffing on top talent. Then Michigan will have to start developing 3 star and below talent like MSU, and I have zero faith they can do that.
Michigan is only going to out-talent teams in the future. They will not win on superior coaching. Mattison is being made to look like a fool tonight. Any team with a little misdirection in its offense shreds this defense. Amazing.
They aren't that great. Much better than Michigan, of course, but not national championship caliber. OSU would lose 7 of 10 to Oregon and 10 of 10 to either FSU or Alabama. And for the latter two, OSU would be to them what Michigan was to MSU.
Why get embarrassed Michigan-style when you can go to a lesser game that you might win? That way you can always claim you could have won the title if you only had a chance? I know that's the cowardly way to think, but the B10 rep has suffered enough with OSU title game embarrassments.
I think of Schofield as a 5th roundish type of pick. Maybe I'm wrong about the pros but, to me at least, he's proven at a minimum he's quite capable at the college level over the last two years.
Probably. But we won't know what direction the turn is for at least a year.
Fact of the matter is that Michigan has embarrassed itself at least 3 times this year. I don't count Penn St. Not a great game but there is no shame in losing a close game to PSU at PSU.
What concerns me, and a lot of other people apparently, is that there doesnt' seem to be any player development. Excuses about youth can only last so long. In a world where the last Heisman trophy winner was a redshirt freshman, and the leading candidate for this year's trophy is also a redshirt freshmen, saying youth is the sole cause of your problems is a poor excuse. Other teams manage to play younger players and get away with it. Other teams play freshman on the o-line and aren't nearly as bad as Michigan. These guys should be getting better, but aren't. That's a coaching problem. And don't forget, with all the youth on that line, it has two starters that will be playing in the NFL next year. How can it possibly still be this bad? What will the line look like next year without two NFL-bound 5th year seniors on it?
Unless this team gets dramatically better in the trenches, starting this week, then Hoke will have some staffing decisions to make in the offseason. At least he better. Otherwise, Hoke is risking Brandon deciding it's time to pay Harbaugh whatever he wants to come coach Michigan in 2015.
Hoke has had, by far, was using solely RichRod's recruits. An indisputable fact.
Until today, I was buying the line that the team was just young and needed to mature. But no more. Today they were pathetic. Michigan has regressed every year. That's a fact. MSU ran straight over the top of them. That's a fact. That's what Michigan used to do to teams.
3 years in and this team is almost as shitty as RichRod's last team. This is a 4 loss team. Minimum. Toss in Hoke's first home loss (OSU), and a likely bowl loss (any team with a pulse will beat these guys. See Akron, Uconn) and we are looking at a 6 loss team.
Hoke needs to do some soul searching. Something is seriously wrong with this staff. They get out-schemed by above average teams. And they haven't developed anyone.
Recent Comments
Can Michigan please stop chasing 5 stars? I don't care if they are related to you. I don't care if other schools make it work. I've thought for many years that one and dones are massive risks. Chances are they will leave before they really contribute anything to the program.
Michigan's program has been decimated in the last two years because of three one and dones that have done little to help the program, and then bolted. Good for them for getting paid, but it's hurt the program severely. Send the 5 stars to Kentucky and go for solid 4 stars if you can. By the time they are sophomores or juniors they will be as good as a five star, and will actually help the program in the meantime.
OSU just beat Clemson by 21. Clemson would beat Michigan by 60, if they felt like it. Even if Clemson felt sorry for Michigan and tried to hold the score down they'd win by 7 touchdowns. There's only so much you can do to avoid scoring in a game where you completely outclass your opponent. I doubt Michigan could compete with Clemson's second string. They might have a chance against the Clemson 3rd string. Maybe. In a hypothetical Clemson-Michigan matchup with Clemson giving 42 points, I'd take Clemson and give the points.
Given the above, the best part about the 2020 football season was that Michigan's ended early. We didn't have to suffer through what would likely be the most humiliating OSU loss yet. We didn't have to suffer watching Michigan get their asses kicked in the Who Gives a Shit Bowl.
This is about way more than Harbaugh. It's not about his contract. It's about Michigan's place in college football. It's about Michigan's prominence in the sport. Is Michigan unable to compete at this level? Or is it unwilling? There's obviously a huge difference between the two.
Michigan football has been a mediocre, at best, program for quite some time. Is the administration fine with that? If so they must realize that mediocre programs don't get preferential time slots to play their games. Mediocre programs do not get preferential network broadcasts. Mediocre programs do not get preferential days to play their games. No one talks about or cares about mediocre programs. Mediocre programs have little influence in their leagues.
Is there any reason that OSU/Michigan is the marquee regular season B10 game? Other than tradition, I mean? Michigan clearly isn't OSU's rival anymore. And won't be for the foreseeable future. I'd argue that honor goes to PSU. At least they can step on the field with OSU. If OSU/Michigan were moved to mid-season, or if OSU and Michigan were put in different divisions and only played every 2 or 3 years, would anyone care other than Michigan fans who would take that as a slap in the face? Would OSU fans even care at this point? They must be bored with Michigan's ineptitude by now. I can't imagine anyone outside of Michigan cares anymore.
I'm not a part of the athletic department so I have no idea what internal discussions are taking place. But if the conversation is solely about whether to extend Harbaugh then I'll be disappointed. The conversation needs to be much larger than that. There is no law that says Michigan gets to have a prominent place in college football nationally. There is no law that says that Michigan gets to be a marquee B10 team. Just like there is no law that says that Detroit gets to continue being one of the best and most wealthy cities in the nation like it was 70 years ago. If you are incompetent long enough things change. Hopefully Michigan's administration understands that and plans accordingly.
I still don't understand why the AD traded a home game against Arkansas for an away game at ND. That has to be one of the stupidest scheduling decisions I've ever seen. Yes, I know it was to smooth out the revenue stream, but at the expense of a probable loss when Michigan can't afford one. Michigan is staring at 3 borderline unwinnable games next year because of it. ND, MSU and OSU on the road are almost certain losses. And I don't see how this team beats PSU or UW at home. Stupid, stupid decision.
I don't see how it's even that close. I think Michigan is going to get killed in an incredibly embarrassing way. If this game were played 100 times, Michigan would lose 100 times. I expect Malzone to play half the game because Peters is out and JOK will get injured behind our so called offensive line. Our defense will wilt because they know we have no chance whatsoever. This loss will be one for the history books.
There. That's the best I can do to jinx the outcome. Hopefully that ensures the opposite of everything I just wrote happens.
Until Michigan demonstrates that it can actually teach linemen how to block, run a competent offense, and earn the right to play in meaningful championship type games, they have to expect that the Alabama's, OSU's, Clemson's etc. of the world will have an edge when it comes to recruiting. It's not rocket science.
Harbaugh is an excellent coach. And I believe he will raise Michigan to a championship level eventually. But at some point the team has to deliver and, especially for offensive line recruits, show that they have the ability to develop them. In three years the best the line has looked was last year, and they were average at best. This year the line has been a disaster, shown zero improvement, and is ulikely to show any before the season is over. Why wouldn't he go to Alabama if given the chance?
Why is Michigan ranked at all? The team that played last night is undoubtedly not one of the 25 best in the country. And Michigan will need to materially improve for it to have a chance of being true before year end.
My rooting guide for the playoffs is for PSU/OSU/UW to not embarrass the B10 like OSU did last year.
As for Michigan, I think two losses against UW and OSU are a given. And will probably be blowouts (20+ pts). This team has shown no ability whatsoever to compete against elite teams.
The most disappointing thing is that they have shown no improvement this year. The best this team looked was in the first game against Florida. And Florida is a mediocre team, as we now know. Since then Michigan has struggled to compete against mediocre teams, generally eeking out a win late. Or losing, as was the case with MSU. But against an elite team, Michigan got curb stomped. They did not belong on the field with PSU.
Again, the biggest problem is that Michigan has shown no improvement. They emphatically are not getting better. And if they haven't shown a modicum of improvement by now, I have doubts they will at all this year. If that's the case, then mediocre is the ceiling for this team.
Here's the problem. Rutgers, Minnesota and Maryland are also mediocre teams, which means all three are coin flip games. Three coin flips means that Michigan is highly likely to lose one of those three in addition to OSU and UW. Which makes them a 7-5 team with a mid December bowl date.
Not sure that's worth $9 million per year. Michigan is not getting what it paid for. No, I don't want to see Harbaugh gone. That's insane. But questions about the coaching are going to get asked, and they should. $9 million should buy you competitiveness at least.
His incredibly high buyout is cut in half if Jurich leaves for any reason. Petrino is now much more mobile. Count on him being hired away.
That's less than I expected. I'll be surprised if its that close.
I'm pretty mellow about the team now. I was mad as hell last week, but the sheer incompetence of the offense has forced me to have a radical adjustment in my expectations. This is an 8-4 or 7-5 team. A CFP caliber defense will be wasted because Michigan has a MAC level offense.
Like most people, I was eager to see what O'Korn could do even before Speight got hurt. The second half against Purdue gave me hope. But we've seen the real O'Korn now. He's well below average. He's one of the worst QBs in the B10.
If nothing else, this should renew everyone's faith in Harbaugh. He was playing Speight for a reason. He's the best QB on the roster. By far, bar none. He wasn't keeping O'Korn on the bench because he felt like it. It's because O'Korn sucks.
So why should faith in Harbaugh be reinforced? Because after watching O'Korn, anyone calling for Peters to start is insane. For Peters to not be playing right now, he must be A LOT WORSE than O'Korn. A....LOT....WORSE. We know his track record for developing high level quarterbacks. What Harbaugh did with Rudock is amazing. I'm confident either Peters or McCaffrey will be ready to take the reins next year. But they are obviously not ready now.
Now that I expect at least 3 more losses this year, I actually feel better when watching the games. When you expect little, it's hard to be disappointed.
That's the delta from last year.
I'll believe it when I see it. Michigan is a "show me" team now.
Is that he is a better coach than Harbaugh. Period, dot, end of story. It's not debatable at this point. Give Dantonio this talent and he'd be in the CFP, and probably win a game.
It doesn't sound like it, but I'm a huge Harbaugh fan. That said, this game was a joke. I don't want to hear how young this team is. Figure out what they can do well, and fucking do it. Expand the playbook once they are competent at some things. And, for next year apparently, have one guy with the sole responsibility of the offensive line. I refuse to believe that a line with a 5th year senior, true senior, redshirt sophomore and two true sophomores has to be this bad. Both Drevno and Frey have a track record of developing good offensive lines. But something is getting lost in translation by sharing the duties.
I didn't see the whole Dantonio press conference but he wasn't as much of an asshole as he typically is after one of these games from what I saw. Maybe he knows he's proven he's the better coach and can lower the level of his asshole-ness. Maybe he knows he got away with winning a game he had no business winning. Or maybe he knows that he isn't facing RichRod or Hoke anymore and he'd better be careful in case Harbaugh finally figures this shit out.
This will be the second straight year that Michigan has a CFP defense and a much worse offense. What a waste. Better lock up Brown with a lifetime contract now, so we can be sure he's here in case Michigan ever develops a complementary offense. Maybe then Michigan can finally finish above 3rd in the B10 East.
Whatever, Michigan is an 8-4 team, at best. Losses to PSU, WSU and OSU are a given. The only real mystery is if O'Korn will fuck up another game and drop us to 7-5 and a late December bowl game. Fucking joke.
I wonder how much of it is using both zone and gap blocking schemes? If the linemen seem confused, which they undoubtedly are, maybe its because there is too much on their plate to master to be any good at both types of schemes. On a lot of those stunts, it looks like the guards and tackles are expecting the other to do something different than what they end up doing, with the result being that a guy comes through untouched. One zigs while the other zags. If so, this will only get better with time. Or maybe Kugler is making bad calls, in which case it won't get better until next year.
Michigan started three 5th year seniors on the OL last year, none of whom were drafted. Michigan lost three games by five points combined last season, mostly because they couldn't run the ball against top tier defenses. If those three OL were worth even 5th or 6th round picks, Michigan goes undefeated and is in the playoffs. I highly doubt Michigan would have won it all, but they would have been there. Once the OL is set, which should be this year or next, this team will be on a par with Alabama, Clemson, etc. The CFP would be a reasonable goal every year at that point.
If he can make millions, he should go for it. If this is the best shot at maximizing his value, so be it.
But, as I prefer college basketball to the NBA, I'm disappointed. In my view, some things need to change.
Personally, selfishly, I want to see Michigan compete for titles. They made an unbelievable in-season turnaround and DJ was a part of that. But seeing a team finally come together with a chance to seriously compete for titles next year only to watch a key cog take off at the last possible moment for a dubious draft slot is frustrating.
That said, good luck to him. Hopefully his decision proves to be a wise one.
Might have had a chance at landing Bamba if Wilson makes a decision two weeks earlier.
plus or minus 1. This team has little talent, is physically weak, mentally weak and is poorly coached. The NIT is a best case scenario. If Michigan wants to go.
How Beilien has coached in prior years is irrelevant to this discussion. This year, this team is shit.
Somewhere around 4 years ago, Beilien lost his ability to identify, recruit and develop people who know how to play basketball. It's an amazing drop off, culminating in a freshman class that has given close to zero contribution this year, in a sport where freshman frequently lead their teams to conference titles and sometimes national titles. Furthermore, this team is unlikely to improve next year. They will probably be worse.
Losing the ability to do what you've done for decades is not unusual. Ken Holland has clearly lost it with the Red Wings, Berenson has clearly lost it for Michigan hockey, Woody Hayes lost it at the end. And so on. It happens all the time. And it's time to think about adding Beilien to this list.
Michigan lost to Illinois a few days ago, and the thread topped out at 108 comments, to your point. 108 comments is not a lot no matter how you look at it and I contend is a sign of fan apathy. The AD may put up with a lot from the BB program, but students not giving a shit will force him to do something eventually. The idea that the trials and tribulations of football recruiting generate 4 or 5 times as much interest as an actual basketball game is a symptom of a much larger malaise. It can't continue.
55 comments (so far) for this thread, 200 comments on Antjuan Simmons, a linebacker Michigan didn't really want, committing to MSU. 4x as many comments.
Didn't get a chance to see the game, but I wonder how many students showed up? Was the arena at capacity? 90%? 50%? Bet it was a lot closer to 50% than 100%.
because we'll care even less by then. We won't be writing anything unless things bet better.
There are around 200 responses to the latest Aubrey Solomon rumor and only 40-ish comments- so far- for an actual conference game that ended several hours ago. Few care now and that number will continue to dwindle.
as long as Beilien is there. This is his ceiling. The thought that he would bring superior coaching with access to better recruits was a good one. But it hasn't worked, obviously. He did accidentally recruit several pros at the same time. That was fun. Hands up for anyone who thinks he'll do that again. Didn't think so.
He runs a clean program and reliably produces bubble-ish teams that are a threat to win a game in the tournament. At some point the administration has to decide if this is all they want. If so, fine. But hopefully they realize that most Michigan fans will not care about a mediocre team. For example, look at this blog. There is ten times more interest in football recruiting than an actual game that was played just a little while ago. Sad.
I don't get all the happiness about only losing by 20 to UCLA. I don't care where UCLA is ranked. Michigan gave up 100 points. That's ridiculous. If Michigan doesn't shoot lights out in the first half they lose by 40+. That's what happens in a money game.
The two year stretch of having a team that is actually capable of competing at a national level is clearly the exception, not the rule for this program. Belien flat out can't get it done at this level consistently. Michigan under Beilien is more like Wichita State or Marquette than MSU. This is the program's ceiling. Make the tournament and win a game. That's it. Maybe if he can accidentally find a couple of NBA caliber players again they can do a little more. But I wouldn't count on Beilien getting that lucky again.
At some point the powers that be need to decide if this is what they want for the program. If so, fine. Hopefully they understand the student disinterest and declining attendance will only get worse. Which will make it harder to recruit good players since elite players don't want to play in empty gyms. Maybe that's all they want? Again fine but that also means MSU has higher standards for their basketball program than Michigan has for theirs. Weird.
but its hard for me to care about this game. Michigan is the second best team in the nation and gakked their way down to 6th and out of the playoffs. Yes, the officiating against OSU was terrible and tipped the scales just enough, but Michigan really screwed up at the end of the year.
If the CFPcommittee had a chance to put in Michigan, they would have. Since they didn't, they put PSU ahead so they can't be accused of ignoring the B10 champs.
And if PSU is bothered about not getting into the playoff, they can blame themselves and MSU. PSU lost to Pitt, not a bad loss but still a loss. And no one wants to see an unqualified team bumble around in the semifinals again like MSU last year.
At the end of the day, Michigan screwed up. Everyone knows Michigan is one of the 4 best teams in America. But the loss to Iowa was inexcusable. Iowa is a decent team, but Michigan is much better this year. Should have never lost. The officiating at OSU was horrible, and everyone knows that. It tipped the game to OSU. But 3 turnovers was the majority of the reason Michigan lost.
Colorado has won its first two games by impressive margins. I expect Michigan to win, and probably win easily, but I expect this to be much more of a contest than the Hawaii or UCF. It wouldn't surprise me if the final score is within 20 points. I hope not, but that's my gut.
I worked in the towers at the time. Fortunately for me I was at a meeting outside my office, otherwise I'd have been running for my life or quite possibly dead. I lost a lot of friends that day.
Savor every day, folks.
is Ricky Doyle. He is undeniably worse this year than last year. Take Ricky Doyle from last year, give him a normal sophomore leap, and this team would suddenly be competitive with the teams that have blown us out. Not only has he not developed, but he has regressed. It's the same with most of the team. Almost all of them are same/worse than last year.
It's more than just athleticism. You can adjust to teams that are more athletic than you are. These guys just don't seem to know how to play basketball. Being a teacher is supposed to be Beilien's strength. Where has that gone?
What will hurt Beilien is taking guys that need to be developed, which I'm fine with, and suddenly losing the ability to develop them. That's how you end up with mediocre teams with first weekend of NCAA tournament ceilings. That will wear thin quickly.
The officiating was horrific. No 50/50 call went against MSU. The targeting call was insane and led to 7 points, The Willie Henry late hit was questionable at best and led to 7 points. Did they even blow the whistle? Jake Butt made that catch, which may have been a first down. Every freaking close call was reviewed, and invariably went for MSU.
And yes, the MSU player made that catch and it was a poor call by the officials. But so what? Since when does every fucking call get reviewed? Every bad call against Michigan was allowed to stand, but it almost felt like the officials were on a mission to make sure MSU got every benefit of the doubt. Did a bad call go against MSU the entire game? Anything?
Rudock cannot make an accurate pass beyond 20 yards. It's killing this offense. I'm not down on Rudock. He is what he is. If Shane were better, he'd be playing. Blame Hoke for no QB worth starting on the roster.
And Michigan's defense breaks down for the first time all year. Unreal.
And Connor Cook dropping in perfect passes into 1 inch windows.
And despite all that Michigan should have won. Just think what will happen when Michigan finally has pro caliber QBs and WRs on the roster again.
MSU got very, very lucky today. God basically intervened to help them win. And they know it. They better hope that Dantonio doesn't skip town to South Carolina. He knows the score and knows the days of dominance are over.
Enjoy the win, MSU. You will get very, very, very few in the future. There is no Connor Cook to drop perfect passes into 1 inch windows next year. And I can't imagine God is going to help you out again with insane officiating and lucky bounces.
Okay, Iowa was right. Rudock cannot throw a pass accurately beyond 10 yards. We'd be winning this game with any kind of quarterbacking.
I will be thrilled to be proven wrong.
Beilien fell in love with under the radar talents because so many panned out over the last couple of years. Normally, they become useful in year three in a program, if ever. That's why they are under the radar talents.
If any coach can take this mess and make it a real team its Beilien. But please, if you are going to take fliers on unknown 3 stars, at least let them be 6'11".
This is an NIT team at best. And its not going to get better anytime soon. This team needs more size. Beilien got caught flat footed when McGary was suspended and Horford decided to leave so he could launch 3 pointers for Florida. The lack of an inside presence is killing this team. Doyle is a year away at least from being able to hold his own inside against real competition. Donnell probably never will.
You can only find so many 3 star diamonds in the rough. I would he have rather saved those scholarships that he used at the last minute to recruit some size next year.
Please, for the love of God, recruit someone taller than 6'9" next year. Michigan will not contend for national titles without one.
Yes, its fair to question Hoke why Drake hasn't seen the field. I know it's only Indiana, but I do not think Smith or Green would have made those cuts, and certainly don't have that speed. Drake and Justice have shown far better vision than either of Smith or Green.
It's not just Drake's performance today that makes you wonder. It's Thomas Rawls being a 1,000 yard rusher and averaging 5.5 ypc, or Josh Furman being an integral part of Ok State's defense. Other teams take Michigan's castoffs and make them productive players. Yet another negaive for Hoke.
People should lay off Devin Gardner. Yes, he isn't a very good quarterback, but virtually none of that is his fault. He has tremendous physical skills, is smart and hardworking. If his quarterback decisionmaking is poor, it is solely because of coaching. Blaming DG for that is like blaming a student for being bad at math when he has a math illiterate as a teacher. Or giving a student a failing grade in English when his teacher doesn't even speak the language. Add to it that he has been beaten to a bloody pulp because of horrific offensive line play and you have a quarterback that plays like he has PTSD.
With proper coaching, DG had 1st round potential and possibly millions of dollars from the NFL in his future. Instead he is unlikely to play in the NFL at all, and certainly not at quarterback if he does. On his way out the door, Hoke should apologize to DG for destroying his athletic future.
By just looking at the boards its pretty clear that losses don't sting many people anymore. It's been replaced by apathy for the most part. Just look at the threads. It looks like the comments for the various threads are about half of what they were just a few weeks ago. Maybe less. Most people don't even care enough to comment, or even logon to the site. Sad.
and that is closer to how I actually feel. But you're right. The chances this team improves enough to win more than 3 games this year is about 0%. My recurring nightmare is that somehow any of these idiots come back next year.
Only thing I feel is that every loss brings Michigan closer to a new regime. I'm actually concerned that somehow this team improves enough to somehow convince the powers that be to keep Brandon/Hoke for another year.
but I wouldn't be shocked if they lost out. They could easily lose to Minn and NW.
It will not beat Penn St or Rutgers. This is a sub .500 team.
Good friend of mine for years here in NYC. Good man. Miss you bud.
Ole Miss isn't a laughingstock. It's mediocre. There's a big difference.
As for Michigan, it's not about the games they lost- and some they won- it's how they did it which caused Michigan to become a laughingstock this year.
Last second miracle finishes against Akron and Uconn are a joke.
Not belonging on the same field with MSU is a joke. MSU was clearly the better team, but they embarrassed Michigan. They literally should have not been on the field with MSU.
The Iowa and Nebraska games were a joke.
The bowl game was the biggest joke of all. Apparently no one wanted to be there and they humiliated themselves far more than KSU did.
If you have that many joke games in a year then you become a laughingstock. Which this program is currently. Only Hoke and/or Brandon can change that.
Michigan is a laughingstock now, and top recruits don't go to laughingstock programs. Unless/until this staff shows that it can compete at the highest level, develop talent, and stop being a laughingstock, it will continue the recent trend of whiffing on top talent. Then Michigan will have to start developing 3 star and below talent like MSU, and I have zero faith they can do that.
Don't be shocked when Jabrill Peppers decommits.
Michigan is only going to out-talent teams in the future. They will not win on superior coaching. Mattison is being made to look like a fool tonight. Any team with a little misdirection in its offense shreds this defense. Amazing.
They aren't that great. Much better than Michigan, of course, but not national championship caliber. OSU would lose 7 of 10 to Oregon and 10 of 10 to either FSU or Alabama. And for the latter two, OSU would be to them what Michigan was to MSU.
Why get embarrassed Michigan-style when you can go to a lesser game that you might win? That way you can always claim you could have won the title if you only had a chance? I know that's the cowardly way to think, but the B10 rep has suffered enough with OSU title game embarrassments.
I think of Schofield as a 5th roundish type of pick. Maybe I'm wrong about the pros but, to me at least, he's proven at a minimum he's quite capable at the college level over the last two years.
Probably. But we won't know what direction the turn is for at least a year.
Fact of the matter is that Michigan has embarrassed itself at least 3 times this year. I don't count Penn St. Not a great game but there is no shame in losing a close game to PSU at PSU.
What concerns me, and a lot of other people apparently, is that there doesnt' seem to be any player development. Excuses about youth can only last so long. In a world where the last Heisman trophy winner was a redshirt freshman, and the leading candidate for this year's trophy is also a redshirt freshmen, saying youth is the sole cause of your problems is a poor excuse. Other teams manage to play younger players and get away with it. Other teams play freshman on the o-line and aren't nearly as bad as Michigan. These guys should be getting better, but aren't. That's a coaching problem. And don't forget, with all the youth on that line, it has two starters that will be playing in the NFL next year. How can it possibly still be this bad? What will the line look like next year without two NFL-bound 5th year seniors on it?
Unless this team gets dramatically better in the trenches, starting this week, then Hoke will have some staffing decisions to make in the offseason. At least he better. Otherwise, Hoke is risking Brandon deciding it's time to pay Harbaugh whatever he wants to come coach Michigan in 2015.
Hoke has had, by far, was using solely RichRod's recruits. An indisputable fact.
Until today, I was buying the line that the team was just young and needed to mature. But no more. Today they were pathetic. Michigan has regressed every year. That's a fact. MSU ran straight over the top of them. That's a fact. That's what Michigan used to do to teams.
3 years in and this team is almost as shitty as RichRod's last team. This is a 4 loss team. Minimum. Toss in Hoke's first home loss (OSU), and a likely bowl loss (any team with a pulse will beat these guys. See Akron, Uconn) and we are looking at a 6 loss team.
Hoke needs to do some soul searching. Something is seriously wrong with this staff. They get out-schemed by above average teams. And they haven't developed anyone.