Nah, that's just a few idiots on (mostly MSU and OSU) message boards, and maybe some of the clowns on ESPN are still talking about it. I don't know because I don't watch any of their trash. Out in the real world (even the real world here in Columbus), no one is talking about that anymore.
That would be absolutely amazing. They should have every advantage going into the game (or The Game) this year- playing at home, more returning players, continuity in coaching staff, and the embarrassment of losing 3 in a row after the fans and citizens of Columbus seemed to believe they were entitled to win every year until the planet dies out.
I have no idea what to expect for the 2024 season - but if we win The Game, it might somehow be the most satisfying yet because of what I said above.
Right. While there's some merit to the points about NIL, that can't be the whole story. We lost to McNeese St and Long Beach St at home! Are we really to believe that those schools' athletic departments have more resources than Michigan's?
Well, I think you made an important point when you separated out the W/L vs. OSU. That criterion almost exists separately from overall W/L in terms of judging the success or failure of a Michigan season. You're correct that 9-10 wins is in the historical range of solid Michigan seasons. Or, to flip it around, 2-3 losses, since the 13-game season (including the bowl) wasn't a thing until relatively recently.
What wasn't part of history in the 70s, 80s, 90s? Frequent losing streaks to OSU. To my mind, a season like, say, 1995 (9-4) was more successful than any of the 10-3 seasons under Harbaugh. And that is simply because we beat a really good OSU team, and avoided a 2-game losing streak to them in the process.
I agree with both of you. Yes, anyone who claims the program is slipping because they don't win it all again next year is nuts. I mean, is the playoff in the realm of possibility? I think so, because in the new landscape of college football, 10-2 will likely get you in, especially with as tough as our schedule looks like it will be. But with all the roster turnover, expecting a high seed (and high likelihood of winning it) would be totally unreasonable.
And yet, idiots on ESPN, Yahoo, and various other places (including the feelingsball people on this board) will claim the program is slipping... just wait.
I mean, he's a good coach. I'll give him that. Not really sure how much further I'd go though, as he is basically about .500 vs. teams OSU should even have a chance of losing to (believe it's 1-7 vs. Top 5 and a few over .500 vs. Top 10).
No, the poster who called you out (AnthonyThomas) did so rightfully, because you don't have the guts to just come out and make the racist statement that you implied with your opening line.
Not to mention the rest of your post is also off-base. Being a coordinator is a totally different job than being a HC. Harbaugh trusted Moore to be the HC during the three hardest games of the regular season. I'll take Harbaugh's judgment over any fan's.
I like this idea. I also started watching in the early 90s (1991 to be exact). IDK what games I'd switch out from your list but some other ones that come to mind for me:
1991 vs. OSU. My first time watching us play OSU, and it was a blowout win.
1999 vs. ND. They didn't turn out to be that good that year, but this one is memorable for me because it was the season opener, against a rival we used to play regularly, and the chaotic ending where they couldn't get the last play off in time and thus stalled at our 20 (or somewhere around there).
2002 vs. MSU. After they cheated with the clock the year before, this was the largest blowout I can remember against them until 2023.
While we're in 2002, let's throw in the Washington game that year. It was the season opener against a good opponent and we won it on a walk off FG after missing 4 or 5 FGs earlier in the game.
Also... I believe 2002 vs. Penn State was the first OT game we ever played (and won).
2003 vs. MSU. Not necessarily a great game, but memorable for the fact that Chris Perry led the way with 51 (!) carries for I believe 255 yards.
2010 vs. ND. As painful as it can be to think of the RR/Hoke era, Denard's performance in this game was one for the ages. I think he accounted for over 500 yards.
This, exactly (and what the OP said). I'm going to enjoy the greatness of the team's 2023 season unless/until they are eliminated from the playoff next year. Until then, they are the defending national champions. Then, I'm going to briefly be frustrated about that... then I'm going to go back to enjoying the 2023 championship.
As you said, anyone who's setting their bar at NC is going to be disappointed. Set it at continue beating OSU most years, get to the playoff, and win another NC or two in your lifetime (depending on how old you are) and you'll probably end up happy.
Exactly. No man - including the head coach - is bigger than the team. I'm grateful for how Harbaugh turned it around from the late Carr/RR/Hoke years, and even from his first few years. At the same time, this annual ordeal has gotten ridiculous. There's nothing wrong with wanting to go to the NFL (if that's his true desire), it's the holding UM and the program hostage with it that rubs me the wrong way. This nonsense has gotten tiresome and predictable. UM should submit its best offer in the coming days and say take it or leave it because we need to know who our coach is for 2024.
Well, if I see someone walking down High St. in UM gear anytime soon, I'll wonder if it's you! It has definitely been more fun wearing UM gear around here by the win, starting with the Game and continuing all the way through the national championship.
Also - are they going to get rid of the "Undisputed" street sign at Lane and High? Of course not, but now that shot at Michigan is obsolete.
I wouldn't say the Rams' run game issues "worked out fine" given that you could connect their RZ struggles to lack of being able to run it. I agree that TB won't necessarily be an easy win but I definitely don't think they're better than the Rams.
All this said - we are talking about the Lions likely winning a divisional round game. What planet are we on?!
I agree, and this is why I have a problem with the "you do whatever it takes" crowd. I'd love it if they could keep Harbaugh. But this is hurting the program, whether people want to admit it or not, and some of these demands are just not things the AD/university should agree to, period. We can hate the Big Ten, the NCAA (I do) but reality is that they are vindictive and out to get Harbaugh. And given that state of affairs, it would be foolish for the university to agree to some of what's (reportedly) holding up this contract.
I read the thread title and seriously thought to myself - why do we have an open thread about a replay of a recent edition of The Game? Like, it will never get old re-watching those but why are we discussing it as it airs on BTN or whatever?
Then I realized you were talking about men's hoops, lol.
Your reply works for both the OP and the post immediately above yours about Warde, which is full of baseless assertions, vitriol, and unfounded statements.
It looks like at least 4 championship seasons will be necessary. Some still haven't realized that you can take a bunch of good to very good recruits and build a great - no, wait, a national championship - TEAM.
Yeah, I'd thought of what if Harbaugh announces he's staying during the event at Crisler? He could do it during the parade too, either would be awesome. And even better if JJ did the same. I don't necessarily expect it, but... it'd make an already amazing week/event even more epic.
It was also the kind of stupid shit we had done in big moments in prior years. For example, one of our players (I think it was Hutch?!) untying an OSU player's shoe at the bottom of the pile in 2019 and getting flagged for it. When their DB did that to Roman Wilson, it told me we had gotten in their heads because of our physicality, which was so refreshing to see.
Yeah, that's interesting what you said about thinking OSU 2021 was likely to be a one off. I remember that I wanted to see at least one more win over them in the following two years, or else I'd feel like we were returning to the consistent losing against them. In 2022, I don't remember ever feeling like it was a better than 50/50 shot we'd win there. Like you, my expectations went up after, especially given that we did it w/o Blake and Mike Morris.
Yeah, it's so hard to say about when we'll next win, which is all the more reason for us to savor this championship. It's part of the reason why I'm driving 3 hours up to Ann Arbor (from Columbus!) on Saturday to go to the celebration at Crisler. I know I can go to another game next year, but I have no idea if I'll be able to go to another championship celebration next year, or the year after, or the rest of the decade, etc.
Yes, a 4th straight win in The Game and beating UGA would be epic!
You know, I never would have thought of that game if no one had mentioned it. But since you did, I also remember thinking how great JJ looked and how I hadn't seen a QB like that at Michigan since... ever? And how we finally had the QB we needed to get us to the national championship level.
Admittedly, they had me nervous when they went up 10-7. But then we restored the lead before half. And the sequence to open the second half, in which we stopped them and then scored to go up 21-13, made it feel 100% real that we were going to win that game.
You raised some good points. I remember feeling like things were trending in the right direction until The Game in 2018. Then I got my hopes again as we started to put it together late in the 2019 season, only to experience the same finish. To your other points, I agree about Rudock, and I'd say the program's adaptation to an NFL-style defense is the single biggest differentiator between the early Harbaugh years and the last three.
That's right, I see a few people have mentioned that specific moment and I remember marveling at it when I saw it on TV. It felt like the kind of "swagger" you never saw from previous Michigan teams. It was like they were saying, we KNOW we're better than you and we're going to have some fun while we prove it.
Your distinction between the 2021 team and the overall program makes sense and reminds me of something I meant to include in my OP but forgot. Basically, it was whether people were concerned that 2021 would just be a one-off.
Yeah, I hear you about this year. It's funny how quickly expectations change. The first nine games felt like an absolute lock coming into the season, with the last three feeling (in order) like a tossup, a very likely win, and a maybe 51/49 proposition to me. So that definitely affected how I experienced the games vs. 2021, when I expected 8-4 (basically losing to any good/decent team) coming in.
That's funny - I remember thinking it was crazy we were that big an underdog based on how both teams had played to that point in the season. At the same time, the BPONE wasn't totally gone from my system yet (even considering what I thought of the team after the Wisconsin game that year). I remember being at a cigar lounge the night before The Game and a group of guys near me were talking about how they'd leave early if it became a blowout. And it was like, well, yeah, that might happen based on recent editions of The Game!
I was thinking about that too. It felt like nothing was going to top the feeling I had after OSU 2021... not OSU 2022, not OSU 2023, even the Rose Bowl wasn't quite at that level for me. But Monday night exceeded it, finally. It's not just happiness but also a sense of peace.
The question is: why? The men's basketball program has experienced such a clear downward trajectory the past three seasons. In 21-22, they salvaged a poor start with a solid second half of the season and a Sweet 16 run. Last year, to me, was the "we can't have another one of these" types of seasons. Poor defense, turnovers, continuous mistakes, resulting in the inability to win a close game. This year it's more of the same - and people want another year? I love Juwan and wanted him to succeed here but I don't see it happening.
I could stomach 11W *before* the Stallions stuff. In 2021 and 2022, it was so fun going there after The Game and reading all the angry posts about firing everyone, the team was soft, etc.
Now it appears to be nearly as much of a cesspool as RCMB. I went there after their bowl loss to Missouri b/c I couldn't help myself. Then I went again after the Rose Bowl and while some are reasonable enough to admit reality, most are still stuck on the BuT tHeY cHeAtEd BS. So I enjoy the OP's screenshot of the bitter thread titles but I won't go there myself today.
"Anybody else struggling with a loss of excitement in sports due to.... the only thing that makes our life worth living going against us 3 years in a row?" That would be a thread title more reflective of the reality for many 11W posters.
"College football has descended into anarchy" - Yes, MSU's former football coach was caught jerking off on a Zoom call with a rape survivor in early 2022, and the university sat on the info for nearly a year before taking action against him.
I am friends w/ quite a few cool OSU fans and a few MSU fans but these posters on those sites are the dregs of humanity.
I agree and all these things can and should be done, except I don't think admissions will allow for the letters. Other than that, there's every reason to do the things you named. This program is set up to keep being a contender for YEARS if Harbaugh is retained. If not, you never know because even a slight regression can put you into the 6-10 range and without a great chance to win it from one year to the next (see: OSU).
Even the way they communicated pre-snap suggested they'd accounted for everything Washington could throw at them. And but for a couple of busts, they got it all right.
Amazing. I was 14 during the 1997 season and as time went on, I figured I'd never see a defense that good again. Well, here we are. They are so well-coached and do all the details right. Holding Washington to 13 points and 300ish yards is outstanding.
I didn't look at it once during the Rose. Looked once tonight, at half, and people were already writing "we lost because of X" posts. Like wtf, we're UP 7 at half!
The thing is, the pundits and fans won't be playing tonight. If this team was concerned with all the outside noise - positive or negative - they wouldn't have made it to tonight.
Recent Comments
Much different roster-building principles in CBB, and a different era with the portal...
Nah, that's just a few idiots on (mostly MSU and OSU) message boards, and maybe some of the clowns on ESPN are still talking about it. I don't know because I don't watch any of their trash. Out in the real world (even the real world here in Columbus), no one is talking about that anymore.
That would be absolutely amazing. They should have every advantage going into the game (or The Game) this year- playing at home, more returning players, continuity in coaching staff, and the embarrassment of losing 3 in a row after the fans and citizens of Columbus seemed to believe they were entitled to win every year until the planet dies out.
I have no idea what to expect for the 2024 season - but if we win The Game, it might somehow be the most satisfying yet because of what I said above.
Right. While there's some merit to the points about NIL, that can't be the whole story. We lost to McNeese St and Long Beach St at home! Are we really to believe that those schools' athletic departments have more resources than Michigan's?
Well, I think you made an important point when you separated out the W/L vs. OSU. That criterion almost exists separately from overall W/L in terms of judging the success or failure of a Michigan season. You're correct that 9-10 wins is in the historical range of solid Michigan seasons. Or, to flip it around, 2-3 losses, since the 13-game season (including the bowl) wasn't a thing until relatively recently.
What wasn't part of history in the 70s, 80s, 90s? Frequent losing streaks to OSU. To my mind, a season like, say, 1995 (9-4) was more successful than any of the 10-3 seasons under Harbaugh. And that is simply because we beat a really good OSU team, and avoided a 2-game losing streak to them in the process.
I agree with both of you. Yes, anyone who claims the program is slipping because they don't win it all again next year is nuts. I mean, is the playoff in the realm of possibility? I think so, because in the new landscape of college football, 10-2 will likely get you in, especially with as tough as our schedule looks like it will be. But with all the roster turnover, expecting a high seed (and high likelihood of winning it) would be totally unreasonable.
And yet, idiots on ESPN, Yahoo, and various other places (including the feelingsball people on this board) will claim the program is slipping... just wait.
I mean,…
And "elite coach."
I mean, he's a good coach. I'll give him that. Not really sure how much further I'd go though, as he is basically about .500 vs. teams OSU should even have a chance of losing to (believe it's 1-7 vs. Top 5 and a few over .500 vs. Top 10).
Also, Sherrone Moore already outcoached him once.
No, but if half the people in this thread start rooting for the Chargers, that will double their fan base.
No, the poster who called you out (AnthonyThomas) did so rightfully, because you don't have the guts to just come out and make the racist statement that you implied with your opening line.
Not to mention the rest of your post is also off-base. Being a coordinator is a totally different job than being a HC. Harbaugh trusted Moore to be the HC during the three hardest games of the regular season. I'll take Harbaugh's judgment over any fan's.
I'm optimistic. So it's not impossible. Maybe just for you?
I like this idea. I also started watching in the early 90s (1991 to be exact). IDK what games I'd switch out from your list but some other ones that come to mind for me:
1991 vs. OSU. My first time watching us play OSU, and it was a blowout win.
1999 vs. ND. They didn't turn out to be that good that year, but this one is memorable for me because it was the season opener, against a rival we used to play regularly, and the chaotic ending where they couldn't get the last play off in time and thus stalled at our 20 (or somewhere around there).
2002 vs. MSU. After they cheated with the clock the year before, this was the largest blowout I can remember against them until 2023.
While we're in 2002, let's throw in the Washington game that year. It was the season opener against a good opponent and we won it on a walk off FG after missing 4 or 5 FGs earlier in the game.
Also... I believe 2002 vs. Penn State was the first OT game we ever played (and won).
2003 vs. MSU. Not necessarily a great game, but memorable for the fact that Chris Perry led the way with 51 (!) carries for I believe 255 yards.
2010 vs. ND. As painful as it can be to think of the RR/Hoke era, Denard's performance in this game was one for the ages. I think he accounted for over 500 yards.
This, exactly (and what the OP said). I'm going to enjoy the greatness of the team's 2023 season unless/until they are eliminated from the playoff next year. Until then, they are the defending national champions. Then, I'm going to briefly be frustrated about that... then I'm going to go back to enjoying the 2023 championship.
As you said, anyone who's setting their bar at NC is going to be disappointed. Set it at continue beating OSU most years, get to the playoff, and win another NC or two in your lifetime (depending on how old you are) and you'll probably end up happy.
Exactly. No man - including the head coach - is bigger than the team. I'm grateful for how Harbaugh turned it around from the late Carr/RR/Hoke years, and even from his first few years. At the same time, this annual ordeal has gotten ridiculous. There's nothing wrong with wanting to go to the NFL (if that's his true desire), it's the holding UM and the program hostage with it that rubs me the wrong way. This nonsense has gotten tiresome and predictable. UM should submit its best offer in the coming days and say take it or leave it because we need to know who our coach is for 2024.
Well, if I see someone walking down High St. in UM gear anytime soon, I'll wonder if it's you! It has definitely been more fun wearing UM gear around here by the win, starting with the Game and continuing all the way through the national championship.
Also - are they going to get rid of the "Undisputed" street sign at Lane and High? Of course not, but now that shot at Michigan is obsolete.
Didn't Dak Prescott put up a "shit ton of yards" against the Packers on Sunday? Remind me of where his team is now...
I wouldn't say the Rams' run game issues "worked out fine" given that you could connect their RZ struggles to lack of being able to run it. I agree that TB won't necessarily be an easy win but I definitely don't think they're better than the Rams.
All this said - we are talking about the Lions likely winning a divisional round game. What planet are we on?!
I agree, and this is why I have a problem with the "you do whatever it takes" crowd. I'd love it if they could keep Harbaugh. But this is hurting the program, whether people want to admit it or not, and some of these demands are just not things the AD/university should agree to, period. We can hate the Big Ten, the NCAA (I do) but reality is that they are vindictive and out to get Harbaugh. And given that state of affairs, it would be foolish for the university to agree to some of what's (reportedly) holding up this contract.
I read the thread title and seriously thought to myself - why do we have an open thread about a replay of a recent edition of The Game? Like, it will never get old re-watching those but why are we discussing it as it airs on BTN or whatever?
Then I realized you were talking about men's hoops, lol.
Your reply works for both the OP and the post immediately above yours about Warde, which is full of baseless assertions, vitriol, and unfounded statements.
It looks like at least 4 championship seasons will be necessary. Some still haven't realized that you can take a bunch of good to very good recruits and build a great - no, wait, a national championship - TEAM.
Yeah, I'd thought of what if Harbaugh announces he's staying during the event at Crisler? He could do it during the parade too, either would be awesome. And even better if JJ did the same. I don't necessarily expect it, but... it'd make an already amazing week/event even more epic.
It was also the kind of stupid shit we had done in big moments in prior years. For example, one of our players (I think it was Hutch?!) untying an OSU player's shoe at the bottom of the pile in 2019 and getting flagged for it. When their DB did that to Roman Wilson, it told me we had gotten in their heads because of our physicality, which was so refreshing to see.
Yeah, that's interesting what you said about thinking OSU 2021 was likely to be a one off. I remember that I wanted to see at least one more win over them in the following two years, or else I'd feel like we were returning to the consistent losing against them. In 2022, I don't remember ever feeling like it was a better than 50/50 shot we'd win there. Like you, my expectations went up after, especially given that we did it w/o Blake and Mike Morris.
Yeah, it's so hard to say about when we'll next win, which is all the more reason for us to savor this championship. It's part of the reason why I'm driving 3 hours up to Ann Arbor (from Columbus!) on Saturday to go to the celebration at Crisler. I know I can go to another game next year, but I have no idea if I'll be able to go to another championship celebration next year, or the year after, or the rest of the decade, etc.
Yes, a 4th straight win in The Game and beating UGA would be epic!
You know, I never would have thought of that game if no one had mentioned it. But since you did, I also remember thinking how great JJ looked and how I hadn't seen a QB like that at Michigan since... ever? And how we finally had the QB we needed to get us to the national championship level.
Admittedly, they had me nervous when they went up 10-7. But then we restored the lead before half. And the sequence to open the second half, in which we stopped them and then scored to go up 21-13, made it feel 100% real that we were going to win that game.
You raised some good points. I remember feeling like things were trending in the right direction until The Game in 2018. Then I got my hopes again as we started to put it together late in the 2019 season, only to experience the same finish. To your other points, I agree about Rudock, and I'd say the program's adaptation to an NFL-style defense is the single biggest differentiator between the early Harbaugh years and the last three.
That's right, I see a few people have mentioned that specific moment and I remember marveling at it when I saw it on TV. It felt like the kind of "swagger" you never saw from previous Michigan teams. It was like they were saying, we KNOW we're better than you and we're going to have some fun while we prove it.
Your distinction between the 2021 team and the overall program makes sense and reminds me of something I meant to include in my OP but forgot. Basically, it was whether people were concerned that 2021 would just be a one-off.
Yeah, I hear you about this year. It's funny how quickly expectations change. The first nine games felt like an absolute lock coming into the season, with the last three feeling (in order) like a tossup, a very likely win, and a maybe 51/49 proposition to me. So that definitely affected how I experienced the games vs. 2021, when I expected 8-4 (basically losing to any good/decent team) coming in.
That's funny - I remember thinking it was crazy we were that big an underdog based on how both teams had played to that point in the season. At the same time, the BPONE wasn't totally gone from my system yet (even considering what I thought of the team after the Wisconsin game that year). I remember being at a cigar lounge the night before The Game and a group of guys near me were talking about how they'd leave early if it became a blowout. And it was like, well, yeah, that might happen based on recent editions of The Game!
I was thinking about that too. It felt like nothing was going to top the feeling I had after OSU 2021... not OSU 2022, not OSU 2023, even the Rose Bowl wasn't quite at that level for me. But Monday night exceeded it, finally. It's not just happiness but also a sense of peace.
The question is: why? The men's basketball program has experienced such a clear downward trajectory the past three seasons. In 21-22, they salvaged a poor start with a solid second half of the season and a Sweet 16 run. Last year, to me, was the "we can't have another one of these" types of seasons. Poor defense, turnovers, continuous mistakes, resulting in the inability to win a close game. This year it's more of the same - and people want another year? I love Juwan and wanted him to succeed here but I don't see it happening.
Can confirm - just got 2 lower bowl tix a couple minutes ago. Can't wait!
Try now, I just ordered them.
Been thinking, has there ever been a more fun time than these past few weeks to be a Michigan and Lions fan? I don't think so.
You and me both! I moved to Columbus last summer and the timing couldn't be any better after the events of last night!
I could stomach 11W *before* the Stallions stuff. In 2021 and 2022, it was so fun going there after The Game and reading all the angry posts about firing everyone, the team was soft, etc.
Now it appears to be nearly as much of a cesspool as RCMB. I went there after their bowl loss to Missouri b/c I couldn't help myself. Then I went again after the Rose Bowl and while some are reasonable enough to admit reality, most are still stuck on the BuT tHeY cHeAtEd BS. So I enjoy the OP's screenshot of the bitter thread titles but I won't go there myself today.
Literally laughed out loud. 1000 upvotes if I could.
"Anybody else struggling with a loss of excitement in sports due to.... the only thing that makes our life worth living going against us 3 years in a row?" That would be a thread title more reflective of the reality for many 11W posters.
"College football has descended into anarchy" - Yes, MSU's former football coach was caught jerking off on a Zoom call with a rape survivor in early 2022, and the university sat on the info for nearly a year before taking action against him.
I am friends w/ quite a few cool OSU fans and a few MSU fans but these posters on those sites are the dregs of humanity.
I agree and all these things can and should be done, except I don't think admissions will allow for the letters. Other than that, there's every reason to do the things you named. This program is set up to keep being a contender for YEARS if Harbaugh is retained. If not, you never know because even a slight regression can put you into the 6-10 range and without a great chance to win it from one year to the next (see: OSU).
What?! People are saying stupid shit on Twitter?! (/s) Agree with you, don't care, and fuck 'em!
Even the way they communicated pre-snap suggested they'd accounted for everything Washington could throw at them. And but for a couple of busts, they got it all right.
Amazing. I was 14 during the 1997 season and as time went on, I figured I'd never see a defense that good again. Well, here we are. They are so well-coached and do all the details right. Holding Washington to 13 points and 300ish yards is outstanding.
I didn't look at it once during the Rose. Looked once tonight, at half, and people were already writing "we lost because of X" posts. Like wtf, we're UP 7 at half!
And the record they broke belonged to OSU, which makes it even sweeter.
I'm done with work, so can the game start now?
Absolute gold... hilarious!
Michigan State goes to bowl games?
Well, except Maryland, ha.
James Turner won the game with the field goal that put us up 3-0!
The thing is, the pundits and fans won't be playing tonight. If this team was concerned with all the outside noise - positive or negative - they wouldn't have made it to tonight.
I can't wait to be there tonight!