The “we won without harbaugh” narrative is flawed. Harbaugh was able to be with the team all season leading up to those games and even during the games for which he was not actively coaching, he was with the team and coaches all week working on the game plan. People are way underestimating just how good of a coach harbaugh is in terms of building identity, psyche and game plan. You can’t just replace that and expect no drop off.
Also, set aside Harbaugh. We also don’t have JJ and the reports out of practice make pretty clear that whomever is QB this year will be a massive step down from our likely top 10 (5?) pick QB. As upsetting as it is, those expecting a significant step back and a record closer to 7-5 than 12-0 are not panicking or being overly pessimistic. That’s a real possibility.
Here is the thing: GWIII was a top 100 recruit coming out of high school. His best attribute was his shooting - over 45% from the 3. That's a skill set that tends to transfer well from HS to college. The fact that he shot something around 20% last year is more likely attributable to the dysfunction of the team and the insanely bad offensive scheme than him suddenly forgetting how to shoot the ball. I would basically memory hold last season and look at it like we got a top 100 recruit coming in next year.
Yes. See the Denard years. Denard was a nightmare matchup with his legs but struggled through the air in terms of reading defenses and making certain throws. We lost to almost every good defense. And I was a huge Denard fan.
This is almost exactly what I expected, and at the same time is terrifying. QB is the most important position in football and while it sounds like Orji's legs are a major weapon, in modern football you need to be able to throw the ball downfield. Even with our JJ-offense, with Blake and Edwards, there were games where JJ had to throw to win. Having a QB who cannot throw makes us entirely 1-dimensional and easy to stop by defenses dropping an extra defender down into the box (see, the entire Denard Robinson period of Michigan football, and I say that as a huge Denard fan). Couple this with the fact that our receiver room is REALLY thin and lacking in top-end talent and we could be looking at a year in which our offense really struggles.
Sure, our defense should be amazing again, but sometimes you get into games in which you need to score 25+ points to win, and I do worry about whether this offense, without major portal help, can do that.
This is good news. With proper coaching, he can develop into a very good player and contributor.
Of the remaining players from last year's team, I really would like to see Burnett back. With some real coaching and more of an offensive structure, he could be a weapon.
I mostly agree with what you wrote. I get your point that in the ideal world, Wolf would be backing up Goldin. But, with a roster that currently has 2-3 (not great) players on it, we are not in an ideal world. I don't think that having to 7 footers is how May generally would want his offense to look, but he may need to adjust of those two players are amongst our best 5. Rooths would be a good option at the 4, I agree, but it's always a question mark when you are relying on freshmen. He could come in game ready on Day 1, in which case, yes, I would start him and then have Wolf be the primary backup at both the 4 and 5 spots, but it's still questionable whether he will be ready.
I don't disagree re: Essegian. I've watched a handful of games he has played in and yes, his defense is legitimately bad. I am also of the belief that as long as the player possesses adequate athleticism, poor defense is more about coaching and effort. Perhaps May can get him to be a middle of the road defender, in which case his offense makes him a plus. Again, that's a question mark.
A starting lineup that features Goldin and Wolf at the 4 and 5 and Davis at the 2 is off to a damn strong start. Then add in Rooths (could he start at the 3?), Essegian and GW3, and we have the makings of a really decent squad. Obviously we could use 2 true PG, but the portal has a ton of talent that, so I am confident that May will find a way to fill out the roster. Honestly, just Goldin, Wolf, David and Essegian alone pay put us in the top half of the expanded big ten.
I loved Denard but while he was effective in many games, against better defenses that were able to put an extra man in the box, he struggled mightily in many games.
This is an A+ hire. For those who are critical or even meh on this hire, given the REALISTIC options, who would have been a better choice? Coach K wasn’t going to come out of retirement, Hubie Davis was not going to leave UNC and Hurley wasn’t going to leave UConn. Of the pool of possible coaches, this is probably he best possible scenario. There were a handful of other decent choices, but even Brian’s “searchbits” posts made clear that the pool did not have any true slam dunks. That’s the current state of college BBall. For all of the crap we give warde because of his handling of the harbaugh issues last season (and if we are being honest, none of us has the full story, so it’s impossible to know if warde was just a wimp or if he somehow worked behind the scenes to avert what could have been a season destroying punishment), he fired Juwan within 48 hours of the season ending and went out and wrapped up the top replacement candidate within a day of that candidate becoming available. He also got Ismael’s named president of the CFB playoff selection committee, despite his school being fresh off a high profile (nonsensical) scandal.
Wear anything Michigan. We are still the defending National F’ing Champions and the Greatest University in the World. Unlike Sparty, when our program sees lows, we always bounce back because, well, see above about being the greatest university in the world. Sparty is an above average basketball school that, aside from a short period during which Michigan was so bad that the better in-state players chose MSU (rich rod and Hoke years) has largely been irrelevant in football for decades.
This is neither a surprise or bad news. And I don’t mean that as a shot to Reed at all. The program is basically starting fresh. It’s almost like we are starting a team at a school that didn’t have one. Horrible that we went from Beilein’s success to . . . This . . . So quickly, but it’s the reality. Fortunately, basketball isn’t football. It only takes 7-8 good players, playing hard and in a system, to turn around a program quickly. I just read that as of yesterday, over 250 players have entered the portal. Many more will. If you are a decent player playing for a smaller, less known school, I have to imagine the opportunity to come play D1 b-ball at the greatest university in the world, wear the block M, possibly even start for Michigan, and be a Michigan alum (remember, most of these guys don’t end up in the NBA, so it’s not just about the b-ball team’s success) would be a huge draw. Point being that with a solid coach who can recruit, we can field a very solid team next year. We will be lower half of the big ten or worse, but the portal, which we all complain about, should allow us to mitigate the damage somewhat.
While I do think that we need to get a coach appointed quickly (and if Warde does not already have a short list and feelers out to all of them given the trajectory of this season he is more inept than even his critics believe), keeping the current roster is not the reason. There is not a single player on this roster aside from Tarris that I would really want to see back. I think that the entire culture of the team is so broken that I wouldn't mind seeing a complete reset with all new players free from the stink of this past season or two. I have to imagine that any new coach coming in can get 10 transfers of players who can work hard on defense and rebounding, learn to play within a system, play as a team and show effort.
As to Dug specifically, after his suspension, his departure was a foregone conclusion, regardless of who is coaching.
Last year he had Dickenson as well as 2 first round draft picks (Jett and Kobe). We sucked and the same issues - effort, defense, rebounding, chemistry - were the issue. Heck, Dickenson regressed under Juwan and is only now showing his former prowess.
We could take 10 guys who are looking to up transfer from lower level schools that many of us have never heard of, and as long as we get guys that make a cohesive roster (2-3 bigs, 4wings and 3 actual pg), actually coach them up on the fundamentals of team basketball, ask them to bust their asses on defense and rebounding and develop a hard working culture of accountability, the results will be a hell of a lot better than what we saw here this past season.
Seriously? What is there to say? The team was historically bad. Every player on the team performed below the expectations of a middle tier D1 basketball program. The coaching was epically. Poor Ulting in one of the worst fundamental basketball teams I’ve ever seen. The coach obviously needs to go, but we don’t yet know if that’s going to happen. Despite all of this, they’ve been discussing basketball all season. What is left for them to say?
In the NFL, teams can turn around quickly. The Giants had a decent defense last year (despite the defense having to be on the field for like 40+ minutes most games due to the historically bad offense) and that defense will be better this year. They definitely struggled on offense but 90% of that was their putrid OL and terrible QB play. While the OL was terrible, it improved in the last quarter of the season and they have a few young guys who started to show real promise. And they’ve already begun to address the OL with 2 signings this offseason (including Runyan). The OL next year should actually be a move average. The one problem is QB. I could see JJ coming in, sitting for the first half of the season while he learns and develops, and coming in midseason successfully. There are worse places to play. Before this decade of absolute suck, the giants were considered one of the better organizations for a player to be at.
I am a Giants fan and I am really hoping that either JJ gals to us at 6 or we make a move up to grab him. The Giants have been a disaster for a decade but are finally making decent moves to set themselves up for long term success. Would be a good situation for JJ, since: (1) we just signed 2 OL (including Runyan) to shore up a very bad line; (2) he could sit and learn behind Jones for part of the year, as opposed to being rushed into action; and (3) the giants are not in a win now mode, so JJ would have time to grow and develop without too much fan frustration.
I don't disagree that having a competitive NIL program is important in terms of attracting better recruits. Especially if you want to compete at the highest level. But at this point, I think that most fans would be happy with being a mediocre, competent team filled with players who hustle, care about the team and winning, and develop over time. Think early years Beilein. Even taking NIL into account, there is no excuse for whatever the hell Juwan is doing. We objectively have more talent on our roster than a number of the teams that beat us.
The football program proved that this is not correct. We largely built a national championship team by bringing in well-regarded, but far from blue chip prospects, developing those guys and keeping them. Sure, we had a few 5 starts and high 4 stars, but we also developed and kept them, as well. Our NIL in terms of getting players paid once they are succeeding is not as bad as our NIL for incoming recruits. The same model can work in basketball, but it's obviously critical to identify the kids looking to find a home, develop and win as a team vs. those who just want the largest bag. Harbaugh excelled at that.
I am as displeased with Warde as most of this board. I think he played a part in us losing perhaps our greatest football coach of the modern era, he bungled the whole hockey coach issue and his handling of the NCAA and the Big Ten during sign-gate were pathetic. I’d love to see him go. But the guy was just named head of the CFP playoff committee. Realistically, he isn’t going anywhere any time soon. Also, many of the regents think highly of him.
As to Juwan, I don’t think his return is guaranteed. At most, Warde is leaning towards giving him another year. Since the Bacon tweet, the program has further cratered, getting blown out by Rutgers (!!!) by 30 and then getting embarrassed by Ohio State. This is a tire fire. At a minimum, Warde has to be weighing his options. I hope that all of the alum, especially those who donate, have been reaching out to Warde to let him know that they will not be renewing their season tickets and will not be donating to this disaster of a program until we make a change. That’s the only thing that we as fans can do to move the needle here.
Yes Michigan’s NIL is very lacking. So are our transfer / admissions issues. But that is no excuse for 8 wins, losing every single second half, roster mismanagement, blatantly obvious lack of effort or intensity by the entire team, lack of fundamentals, lack of defense, mind boggling lineups, obviously bad chemistry and overall complete coaching incompetence. In fact, despite our admissions and NIL limitations, we had a far superior roster in terms of recruiting rankings to Rutgers. And we lost by 30! Yes, these issues may prevent Michigan from being a consistent top 20 team. But they don’t explain dead last in the big ten and a second straight season of . . . Whatever the hell we are seeing on the court.
No offense to the OP but this is a terrible take. The arena was packed with Purdue fans because no Michigan fan in their right mind wants to waste 2.5 hours (not including travel time) to watch this absolute joke of a team. It’s not fickle fans - Michigan fans stuck with some very mediocre teams over the past 2 decades. It’s that this team gives you literally nothing at all to root for. A large number of the players show zero hustle on defense and rebounding, they make the same mistakes game in and game out, there is zero intensity and the turnovers are just insane. This is just a terrible team with players who almost entirely have not established a connection with the fanbase. Watching them is unpleasant and frustrating for those of us that love Michigan basketball. How can you blame fans for not wanting to devote hours of their precious time to watching what is almost guaranteed to be a meaningless loss?
This looks right but I think that people are sleeping on PSU because we have owned them In recent years. They have a fairly stocked team. Yes, Frames seems to always find ways to lose to us, but with an entirely new (and largely unproven) coaching staff on our end, while I think our defense should be able to home them to few points, I am not taking a win against them for granted.
Can’t we just avoid politics here? Not every topic needs a comment about how horrible / awesome Donald Trump is. I swear that guy has figured out a way to hypnotize around 40% of the country to think he’s the messiah and at the same time have the other half of the country think he’s the actual devil. If you want to debate which side is right I am sure that there are boards on cnn or foxnews to debate that. Not sure why it needs to be brought up here. Sorry for the rant but it’s just nice having this place be apolitical.
What Petitti did to Michigan and Jim was unforgivable. He tried to tarnish the best season that we’ve had in 25 years. And he likely is partially responsible for driving Jim out of college football. Like everyone here, I despise Little Tony. I am also far from impressed with Warde, who has really mismanaged the coaching / modernization side of our athletic department.
That all said, the adult part of me recognizes that, despite our anger and valid dislike of Petitti, we still need to exist as a member of the big ten and the NCAA. That existence is made significantly harder if they are all “out to get us.” Warde making nice with the commissioner of our conference and mending the relationship is, as much as I hate to admit it, something that was both necessary and practical for our continued success. It sucks, but that’s reality.
I’m a NYer. The standard split is: Yankees/Giants/Rangers or Mets/Jets/Islanders. The Knicks kinda transcend that as I would say that 80+% of NYers are Knicks fans. I’m personally an anomaly - Yankees, Giants, Islanders (doesn’t fit), Knicks. Oddly, when I met my wife, she had the identical rare split, so I knew it was a good match!
The NCAA is absolutely horrible. They lack any ability to govern, let along govern impartially. They have allowed NIL, portal and one-and-done type issues gravely undermine the sport going forward. It’s complete chaos. In the short term, some will find it exciting. But in the long term, it will greatly harm college sports. But, Juwan is not the only coach in the country that has to navigate these issue. Yes, Michigan’s academic standards make it harder here than at other places, but by year 4-5, he should have that figured out. Harbaugh did. Beilein did. Yes, it can cost you a few really talented players. But, it’s not excuse for whatever is going on with our b-ball program. Sure, the Michigan issues may prevent us from being Duke. But there is a huge gap between top tier and dead last and that’s ok the coach and the crap culture that he has created (which was called out by the long time strength coach).
JT was short. We win that game, we are looking at a playoff run and possibly a national championship. Sure, we got that championship a few years later, but that was back when Jim was killing it on the recruiting trail - that win could have set us up for a Bama like 5-7 year run.
I hate McAfee on college game day. He's the worst and he dominates the discussion. For some reason, though, the few times that his show have been on while I am on the treadmill, I don't hate him. Weird.
Obviously there are physical limitations. And Tschetter is an example. But that is not true of our entire roster. We have athletic guys. We don’t have a team. Add to this that in terms of athleticism and talent, our roster is simply not worse than 187 teams. But we are 188 in defense.
Disagree. The things that Juwan seems to be bad at are things that are not w turkey talent based. Locker room culture, defense, huddle, defensive rebounding, roster construction, etc. The team is just completely lost. In every facet of the game. And we have a number of senior starters. Unfortunately, it seems that Juwan is just not a good college coach.
I am excited that he is staying. From everything I have read and heard, Harbaugh thought very highly of Newsome and he seems to have a lot of potential. My biggest concern on this staff, though, as others have said, is the lack of experience. The best staffs are made up of younger position coaches (who can recruit and relate to players) with experienced head coaches. Our entire staff is going to be very young and inexperienced. I am hoping that Moore fills the DC and OC positions with experienced, proven top-level coaches, as that may help balance out the youth and inexperience across so many spots.
I understand where you are going, but I don't agree. Harbaugh is a unicorn, and also just a weird dude. My honest sense from his introductory press conference is that he always wanted to be in the NFL where he could compete for a Lombardi Trophy, but that having watched his beloved Michigan toil through a decade of disaster, he felt an obligation to come back and right the ship. I always got the sense that he came he with a specific mission - restore the program, get us back on par with Ohio State, win a big ten championship and hopefully a national championship. Then he could go back to the NFL knowing that he did what he felt needed to be done for his school. And he did that.
And when a head coach leaves, it is common for members of his staff to follow him. Some of those following Jim out also followed him in. Ultimately, the culture starts with the head coach and Moore is a branch of the Harbaugh tree, and will certainly be retaining a number of staff members. In addition, the culture is fostered by the senior leadership on the team. While a lot of our guys graduated or are on to the NFL, we have a ton of returning upperclass leadership to keep the culture vibe going.
Juwan was an awesome college player, a very good NBA player and apparently a good NBA assistant coach. He is a proud alum. He also appears to be a great husband and father, a good role model to kids from difficult backgrounds and a proud alum of our university. He undoubtedly knows more about basketball than any of us. But despite all of those positive attributes, JUWAN HAS PROVEN HIMSELF TO BE AN ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE COLLEGE HEAD BASKETBALL COACH. Aside from the early Beilein-player led years, his team:
1. Consistently lose close games
2. Are undisciplined
3. Do not hustle
4. Turn the ball over at an alarming rate
5. Exhibit terrible decision making
6. Lack fundamentals
7. Get out rebounded
8. Play putrid defense
9. Lack leadership
10. Have poorly constructed rosters, and
11. Fail to score after critical timeouts.
Add to that Juwan’s personal issues, and I can’t think of a single thing that is positive about Juwan’s tenure since Beilein’s players moved on. Can anyone think of a single positive?
I was in the minority who thought that with the best active coach in the country leaving, Michigan should do a thorough search and try to pick off the top name available. Watching the presser this morning, and seeing the way that the players seem to love Moore, I am fully on board and starting to get hyped for this season. Replacing a guy like JH is impossible. He’s a legend and a unicorn. Alabama is about to find out the same thing. But I have a ton of confidence in Moore to get it right and continue the success. #SMASH
Hire the best and most qualified. We don’t need to overvalue people just bc they were associated with Michigan. Sherrone wasn’t a Michigan connection until her came here.
Obviously the goal is the retain as many as possible from the current staff. I’d like Jay to stay, but not sure he is ready to be DC, and there are others more qualified on this stuff. My guess is that Jay follows his dad to the NFL.
College basketball does appear to be holding up, although I do know a ton of people who have lost interest due to the combo of 1-and-done, the portal and what is perceived to be a ton of kids who are treating their 1 year in college as a mandatory service requirement for the NBA (as many fans here perceived of Jett).
Right, but more often than not, those coaches get their first HC job at smaller schools with less pressure, where they have time to learn on the job. It happens, but it’s less common to get your first HC job at a Michigan, OSU, Alabama, etc. I think the faction of the fanbase that is worried about just turning it over to Moore would have felt a lot better if Moore had 3-4 successful seasons at some middling Mac team that they could look to as reassurance that Moore knows how to be the HC of a program, as opposed to filling in for 3-4 hours on Gameday. That said, there are a number of success stories of guys who hit it out of the park on their first try, so I’m optimistic.
Brian is spot on that the unique thing about college football is the connection that the fans feel for the players. My concern is that in the world of unrestricted NIL and annual free agency caused by the portal, that connection will fade as many players will just become one or two year rentals.
It’s a business and one that generates limited profits. Historically the “minor leagues” of football have been very strapped for cash and have gone bankrupt repeatedly. They can only pay what the revenue allows. Also, I don’t think that it is a full time job for the players.
This is spot on! Harbaugh installed the culture of the program. The assistants on his staff worked within that culture, and may have played a part in shaping aspects of it, but the DNA of the program is 100% Jim Harbaugh.
As you said, we can't force Harbaugh to stay. But if he leaves, it is silly to pretend that he is just a cog in the machine that made the current NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP team. Harbaugh has an incredible history of success at virtually every single stop. He turned Stanford into a successful program after decades of irrelevancy (to which they have largely returned since he left). He took the 49ers to a Super Bowl and to conference championship games in only a few years. And he took Michigan - a team which has not been competitive with the big boys since 2006 to 3 straight Big Ten Championships (with three straight wins over OSU) and a National Championship. I would argue that the only current coaches with his level of consistent success are Lincoln Riley, Kirby Smart and maybe Brian Kelly (meh). And Riley and Smart don't have half of the obstacles that Jim has in terms of admissions, limitations on NIL, etc.
Acting like the unique culture that Harbaugh has created here can be carried on by a collection of his assistants ignores just how special of a coach Harbaugh really is.
I don't know that Moore is an obvious successor. The fact that the team won with Moore as the acting HC - where Harbaugh was able to be involved in all aspects of the team, including practicing, game planning, etc. all week other than for 3 hours on game day - does not, by itself demonstrate that Moore is ready to take over as HC. College football (and the NFL) is replete with examples of teams promoting internal coordinators to fill HC vacancies and those promotions not working out.
This is not to say that Moore will NOT be a good HC in the future. But, being an OC and being a HC are completely different jobs. Most individuals who have had success as HC of a major program had prior experience as HC at smaller programs (or even larger programs). Moore has shown that he can be a competent OC (competent because our offense was very solid, played complementary football, and did not hurt the team, but was certainly not a world beating offense, which I am fine with as it worked with the general strategy of being low risk and allowing the defense to do its thing and win us games), but before he one day is a HC here, I would like to see him get some experience as a HC of a smaller MAC-level program.
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JT Barrett consistently had top level receivers. Our receivers are not of the same caliber. Also, not sure that Orji is close to the level of JT.
The “we won without harbaugh” narrative is flawed. Harbaugh was able to be with the team all season leading up to those games and even during the games for which he was not actively coaching, he was with the team and coaches all week working on the game plan. People are way underestimating just how good of a coach harbaugh is in terms of building identity, psyche and game plan. You can’t just replace that and expect no drop off.
Also, set aside Harbaugh. We also don’t have JJ and the reports out of practice make pretty clear that whomever is QB this year will be a massive step down from our likely top 10 (5?) pick QB.
As upsetting as it is, those expecting a significant step back and a record closer to 7-5 than 12-0 are not panicking or being overly pessimistic. That’s a real possibility.
Me too! Let’s go islanders!!
Here is the thing: GWIII was a top 100 recruit coming out of high school. His best attribute was his shooting - over 45% from the 3. That's a skill set that tends to transfer well from HS to college. The fact that he shot something around 20% last year is more likely attributable to the dysfunction of the team and the insanely bad offensive scheme than him suddenly forgetting how to shoot the ball. I would basically memory hold last season and look at it like we got a top 100 recruit coming in next year.
Yes. See the Denard years. Denard was a nightmare matchup with his legs but struggled through the air in terms of reading defenses and making certain throws. We lost to almost every good defense. And I was a huge Denard fan.
This is almost exactly what I expected, and at the same time is terrifying. QB is the most important position in football and while it sounds like Orji's legs are a major weapon, in modern football you need to be able to throw the ball downfield. Even with our JJ-offense, with Blake and Edwards, there were games where JJ had to throw to win. Having a QB who cannot throw makes us entirely 1-dimensional and easy to stop by defenses dropping an extra defender down into the box (see, the entire Denard Robinson period of Michigan football, and I say that as a huge Denard fan). Couple this with the fact that our receiver room is REALLY thin and lacking in top-end talent and we could be looking at a year in which our offense really struggles.
Sure, our defense should be amazing again, but sometimes you get into games in which you need to score 25+ points to win, and I do worry about whether this offense, without major portal help, can do that.
This is good news. With proper coaching, he can develop into a very good player and contributor.
Of the remaining players from last year's team, I really would like to see Burnett back. With some real coaching and more of an offensive structure, he could be a weapon.
I mostly agree with what you wrote. I get your point that in the ideal world, Wolf would be backing up Goldin. But, with a roster that currently has 2-3 (not great) players on it, we are not in an ideal world. I don't think that having to 7 footers is how May generally would want his offense to look, but he may need to adjust of those two players are amongst our best 5. Rooths would be a good option at the 4, I agree, but it's always a question mark when you are relying on freshmen. He could come in game ready on Day 1, in which case, yes, I would start him and then have Wolf be the primary backup at both the 4 and 5 spots, but it's still questionable whether he will be ready.
I don't disagree re: Essegian. I've watched a handful of games he has played in and yes, his defense is legitimately bad. I am also of the belief that as long as the player possesses adequate athleticism, poor defense is more about coaching and effort. Perhaps May can get him to be a middle of the road defender, in which case his offense makes him a plus. Again, that's a question mark.
A starting lineup that features Goldin and Wolf at the 4 and 5 and Davis at the 2 is off to a damn strong start. Then add in Rooths (could he start at the 3?), Essegian and GW3, and we have the makings of a really decent squad. Obviously we could use 2 true PG, but the portal has a ton of talent that, so I am confident that May will find a way to fill out the roster. Honestly, just Goldin, Wolf, David and Essegian alone pay put us in the top half of the expanded big ten.
I loved Denard but while he was effective in many games, against better defenses that were able to put an extra man in the box, he struggled mightily in many games.
This is an A+ hire. For those who are critical or even meh on this hire, given the REALISTIC options, who would have been a better choice? Coach K wasn’t going to come out of retirement, Hubie Davis was not going to leave UNC and Hurley wasn’t going to leave UConn. Of the pool of possible coaches, this is probably he best possible scenario. There were a handful of other decent choices, but even Brian’s “searchbits” posts made clear that the pool did not have any true slam dunks. That’s the current state of college BBall. For all of the crap we give warde because of his handling of the harbaugh issues last season (and if we are being honest, none of us has the full story, so it’s impossible to know if warde was just a wimp or if he somehow worked behind the scenes to avert what could have been a season destroying punishment), he fired Juwan within 48 hours of the season ending and went out and wrapped up the top replacement candidate within a day of that candidate becoming available. He also got Ismael’s named president of the CFB playoff selection committee, despite his school being fresh off a high profile (nonsensical) scandal.
Warde!!! Gotta give the big guy some credit. He went out and got the top coach available.
Wear anything Michigan. We are still the defending National F’ing Champions and the Greatest University in the World. Unlike Sparty, when our program sees lows, we always bounce back because, well, see above about being the greatest university in the world. Sparty is an above average basketball school that, aside from a short period during which Michigan was so bad that the better in-state players chose MSU (rich rod and Hoke years) has largely been irrelevant in football for decades.
This is neither a surprise or bad news. And I don’t mean that as a shot to Reed at all. The program is basically starting fresh. It’s almost like we are starting a team at a school that didn’t have one. Horrible that we went from Beilein’s success to . . . This . . . So quickly, but it’s the reality. Fortunately, basketball isn’t football. It only takes 7-8 good players, playing hard and in a system, to turn around a program quickly. I just read that as of yesterday, over 250 players have entered the portal. Many more will. If you are a decent player playing for a smaller, less known school, I have to imagine the opportunity to come play D1 b-ball at the greatest university in the world, wear the block M, possibly even start for Michigan, and be a Michigan alum (remember, most of these guys don’t end up in the NBA, so it’s not just about the b-ball team’s success) would be a huge draw. Point being that with a solid coach who can recruit, we can field a very solid team next year. We will be lower half of the big ten or worse, but the portal, which we all complain about, should allow us to mitigate the damage somewhat.
While I do think that we need to get a coach appointed quickly (and if Warde does not already have a short list and feelers out to all of them given the trajectory of this season he is more inept than even his critics believe), keeping the current roster is not the reason. There is not a single player on this roster aside from Tarris that I would really want to see back. I think that the entire culture of the team is so broken that I wouldn't mind seeing a complete reset with all new players free from the stink of this past season or two. I have to imagine that any new coach coming in can get 10 transfers of players who can work hard on defense and rebounding, learn to play within a system, play as a team and show effort.
As to Dug specifically, after his suspension, his departure was a foregone conclusion, regardless of who is coaching.
Last year he had Dickenson as well as 2 first round draft picks (Jett and Kobe). We sucked and the same issues - effort, defense, rebounding, chemistry - were the issue. Heck, Dickenson regressed under Juwan and is only now showing his former prowess.
We could take 10 guys who are looking to up transfer from lower level schools that many of us have never heard of, and as long as we get guys that make a cohesive roster (2-3 bigs, 4wings and 3 actual pg), actually coach them up on the fundamentals of team basketball, ask them to bust their asses on defense and rebounding and develop a hard working culture of accountability, the results will be a hell of a lot better than what we saw here this past season.
Seriously? What is there to say? The team was historically bad. Every player on the team performed below the expectations of a middle tier D1 basketball program. The coaching was epically. Poor Ulting in one of the worst fundamental basketball teams I’ve ever seen. The coach obviously needs to go, but we don’t yet know if that’s going to happen. Despite all of this, they’ve been discussing basketball all season. What is left for them to say?
In the NFL, teams can turn around quickly. The Giants had a decent defense last year (despite the defense having to be on the field for like 40+ minutes most games due to the historically bad offense) and that defense will be better this year. They definitely struggled on offense but 90% of that was their putrid OL and terrible QB play. While the OL was terrible, it improved in the last quarter of the season and they have a few young guys who started to show real promise. And they’ve already begun to address the OL with 2 signings this offseason (including Runyan). The OL next year should actually be a move average. The one problem is QB. I could see JJ coming in, sitting for the first half of the season while he learns and develops, and coming in midseason successfully. There are worse places to play. Before this decade of absolute suck, the giants were considered one of the better organizations for a player to be at.
Those who stay will be back to back champions.
I am a Giants fan and I am really hoping that either JJ gals to us at 6 or we make a move up to grab him. The Giants have been a disaster for a decade but are finally making decent moves to set themselves up for long term success. Would be a good situation for JJ, since: (1) we just signed 2 OL (including Runyan) to shore up a very bad line; (2) he could sit and learn behind Jones for part of the year, as opposed to being rushed into action; and (3) the giants are not in a win now mode, so JJ would have time to grow and develop without too much fan frustration.
I don't disagree that having a competitive NIL program is important in terms of attracting better recruits. Especially if you want to compete at the highest level. But at this point, I think that most fans would be happy with being a mediocre, competent team filled with players who hustle, care about the team and winning, and develop over time. Think early years Beilein. Even taking NIL into account, there is no excuse for whatever the hell Juwan is doing. We objectively have more talent on our roster than a number of the teams that beat us.
The football program proved that this is not correct. We largely built a national championship team by bringing in well-regarded, but far from blue chip prospects, developing those guys and keeping them. Sure, we had a few 5 starts and high 4 stars, but we also developed and kept them, as well. Our NIL in terms of getting players paid once they are succeeding is not as bad as our NIL for incoming recruits. The same model can work in basketball, but it's obviously critical to identify the kids looking to find a home, develop and win as a team vs. those who just want the largest bag. Harbaugh excelled at that.
I am as displeased with Warde as most of this board. I think he played a part in us losing perhaps our greatest football coach of the modern era, he bungled the whole hockey coach issue and his handling of the NCAA and the Big Ten during sign-gate were pathetic. I’d love to see him go. But the guy was just named head of the CFP playoff committee. Realistically, he isn’t going anywhere any time soon. Also, many of the regents think highly of him.
As to Juwan, I don’t think his return is guaranteed. At most, Warde is leaning towards giving him another year. Since the Bacon tweet, the program has further cratered, getting blown out by Rutgers (!!!) by 30 and then getting embarrassed by Ohio State. This is a tire fire. At a minimum, Warde has to be weighing his options. I hope that all of the alum, especially those who donate, have been reaching out to Warde to let him know that they will not be renewing their season tickets and will not be donating to this disaster of a program until we make a change. That’s the only thing that we as fans can do to move the needle here.
Yes Michigan’s NIL is very lacking. So are our transfer / admissions issues. But that is no excuse for 8 wins, losing every single second half, roster mismanagement, blatantly obvious lack of effort or intensity by the entire team, lack of fundamentals, lack of defense, mind boggling lineups, obviously bad chemistry and overall complete coaching incompetence. In fact, despite our admissions and NIL limitations, we had a far superior roster in terms of recruiting rankings to Rutgers. And we lost by 30! Yes, these issues may prevent Michigan from being a consistent top 20 team. But they don’t explain dead last in the big ten and a second straight season of . . . Whatever the hell we are seeing on the court.
No offense to the OP but this is a terrible take. The arena was packed with Purdue fans because no Michigan fan in their right mind wants to waste 2.5 hours (not including travel time) to watch this absolute joke of a team. It’s not fickle fans - Michigan fans stuck with some very mediocre teams over the past 2 decades. It’s that this team gives you literally nothing at all to root for. A large number of the players show zero hustle on defense and rebounding, they make the same mistakes game in and game out, there is zero intensity and the turnovers are just insane. This is just a terrible team with players who almost entirely have not established a connection with the fanbase. Watching them is unpleasant and frustrating for those of us that love Michigan basketball. How can you blame fans for not wanting to devote hours of their precious time to watching what is almost guaranteed to be a meaningless loss?
This looks right but I think that people are sleeping on PSU because we have owned them In recent years. They have a fairly stocked team. Yes, Frames seems to always find ways to lose to us, but with an entirely new (and largely unproven) coaching staff on our end, while I think our defense should be able to home them to few points, I am not taking a win against them for granted.
Can’t we just avoid politics here? Not every topic needs a comment about how horrible / awesome Donald Trump is. I swear that guy has figured out a way to hypnotize around 40% of the country to think he’s the messiah and at the same time have the other half of the country think he’s the actual devil. If you want to debate which side is right I am sure that there are boards on cnn or foxnews to debate that. Not sure why it needs to be brought up here. Sorry for the rant but it’s just nice having this place be apolitical.
What Petitti did to Michigan and Jim was unforgivable. He tried to tarnish the best season that we’ve had in 25 years. And he likely is partially responsible for driving Jim out of college football. Like everyone here, I despise Little Tony. I am also far from impressed with Warde, who has really mismanaged the coaching / modernization side of our athletic department.
That all said, the adult part of me recognizes that, despite our anger and valid dislike of Petitti, we still need to exist as a member of the big ten and the NCAA. That existence is made significantly harder if they are all “out to get us.” Warde making nice with the commissioner of our conference and mending the relationship is, as much as I hate to admit it, something that was both necessary and practical for our continued success. It sucks, but that’s reality.
I’m a NYer. The standard split is: Yankees/Giants/Rangers or Mets/Jets/Islanders. The Knicks kinda transcend that as I would say that 80+% of NYers are Knicks fans. I’m personally an anomaly - Yankees, Giants, Islanders (doesn’t fit), Knicks. Oddly, when I met my wife, she had the identical rare split, so I knew it was a good match!
The NCAA is absolutely horrible. They lack any ability to govern, let along govern impartially. They have allowed NIL, portal and one-and-done type issues gravely undermine the sport going forward. It’s complete chaos. In the short term, some will find it exciting. But in the long term, it will greatly harm college sports. But, Juwan is not the only coach in the country that has to navigate these issue. Yes, Michigan’s academic standards make it harder here than at other places, but by year 4-5, he should have that figured out. Harbaugh did. Beilein did. Yes, it can cost you a few really talented players. But, it’s not excuse for whatever is going on with our b-ball program. Sure, the Michigan issues may prevent us from being Duke. But there is a huge gap between top tier and dead last and that’s ok the coach and the crap culture that he has created (which was called out by the long time strength coach).
JT was short. We win that game, we are looking at a playoff run and possibly a national championship. Sure, we got that championship a few years later, but that was back when Jim was killing it on the recruiting trail - that win could have set us up for a Bama like 5-7 year run.
Sherrone Moore
I hate McAfee on college game day. He's the worst and he dominates the discussion. For some reason, though, the few times that his show have been on while I am on the treadmill, I don't hate him. Weird.
Obviously there are physical limitations. And Tschetter is an example. But that is not true of our entire roster. We have athletic guys. We don’t have a team. Add to this that in terms of athleticism and talent, our roster is simply not worse than 187 teams. But we are 188 in defense.
Disagree. The things that Juwan seems to be bad at are things that are not w turkey talent based. Locker room culture, defense, huddle, defensive rebounding, roster construction, etc. The team is just completely lost. In every facet of the game. And we have a number of senior starters. Unfortunately, it seems that Juwan is just not a good college coach.
I am excited that he is staying. From everything I have read and heard, Harbaugh thought very highly of Newsome and he seems to have a lot of potential. My biggest concern on this staff, though, as others have said, is the lack of experience. The best staffs are made up of younger position coaches (who can recruit and relate to players) with experienced head coaches. Our entire staff is going to be very young and inexperienced. I am hoping that Moore fills the DC and OC positions with experienced, proven top-level coaches, as that may help balance out the youth and inexperience across so many spots.
I understand where you are going, but I don't agree. Harbaugh is a unicorn, and also just a weird dude. My honest sense from his introductory press conference is that he always wanted to be in the NFL where he could compete for a Lombardi Trophy, but that having watched his beloved Michigan toil through a decade of disaster, he felt an obligation to come back and right the ship. I always got the sense that he came he with a specific mission - restore the program, get us back on par with Ohio State, win a big ten championship and hopefully a national championship. Then he could go back to the NFL knowing that he did what he felt needed to be done for his school. And he did that.
And when a head coach leaves, it is common for members of his staff to follow him. Some of those following Jim out also followed him in. Ultimately, the culture starts with the head coach and Moore is a branch of the Harbaugh tree, and will certainly be retaining a number of staff members. In addition, the culture is fostered by the senior leadership on the team. While a lot of our guys graduated or are on to the NFL, we have a ton of returning upperclass leadership to keep the culture vibe going.
Juwan was an awesome college player, a very good NBA player and apparently a good NBA assistant coach. He is a proud alum. He also appears to be a great husband and father, a good role model to kids from difficult backgrounds and a proud alum of our university. He undoubtedly knows more about basketball than any of us. But despite all of those positive attributes, JUWAN HAS PROVEN HIMSELF TO BE AN ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE COLLEGE HEAD BASKETBALL COACH. Aside from the early Beilein-player led years, his team:
1. Consistently lose close games
2. Are undisciplined
3. Do not hustle
4. Turn the ball over at an alarming rate
5. Exhibit terrible decision making
6. Lack fundamentals
7. Get out rebounded
8. Play putrid defense
9. Lack leadership
10. Have poorly constructed rosters, and
11. Fail to score after critical timeouts.
Add to that Juwan’s personal issues, and I can’t think of a single thing that is positive about Juwan’s tenure since Beilein’s players moved on. Can anyone think of a single positive?
I was in the minority who thought that with the best active coach in the country leaving, Michigan should do a thorough search and try to pick off the top name available. Watching the presser this morning, and seeing the way that the players seem to love Moore, I am fully on board and starting to get hyped for this season. Replacing a guy like JH is impossible. He’s a legend and a unicorn. Alabama is about to find out the same thing. But I have a ton of confidence in Moore to get it right and continue the success. #SMASH
Hire the best and most qualified. We don’t need to overvalue people just bc they were associated with Michigan. Sherrone wasn’t a Michigan connection until her came here.
Obviously the goal is the retain as many as possible from the current staff. I’d like Jay to stay, but not sure he is ready to be DC, and there are others more qualified on this stuff. My guess is that Jay follows his dad to the NFL.
College basketball does appear to be holding up, although I do know a ton of people who have lost interest due to the combo of 1-and-done, the portal and what is perceived to be a ton of kids who are treating their 1 year in college as a mandatory service requirement for the NBA (as many fans here perceived of Jett).
Right, but more often than not, those coaches get their first HC job at smaller schools with less pressure, where they have time to learn on the job. It happens, but it’s less common to get your first HC job at a Michigan, OSU, Alabama, etc. I think the faction of the fanbase that is worried about just turning it over to Moore would have felt a lot better if Moore had 3-4 successful seasons at some middling Mac team that they could look to as reassurance that Moore knows how to be the HC of a program, as opposed to filling in for 3-4 hours on Gameday. That said, there are a number of success stories of guys who hit it out of the park on their first try, so I’m optimistic.
Brian is spot on that the unique thing about college football is the connection that the fans feel for the players. My concern is that in the world of unrestricted NIL and annual free agency caused by the portal, that connection will fade as many players will just become one or two year rentals.
Jack Harbaugh > John and Jim
Since it’s all hypothetical, there are three current coaches who are not employed:
1. Nick Saban
2. Urban Meyer
3. Bill Belichick
It’s a business and one that generates limited profits. Historically the “minor leagues” of football have been very strapped for cash and have gone bankrupt repeatedly. They can only pay what the revenue allows. Also, I don’t think that it is a full time job for the players.
This is spot on! Harbaugh installed the culture of the program. The assistants on his staff worked within that culture, and may have played a part in shaping aspects of it, but the DNA of the program is 100% Jim Harbaugh.
As you said, we can't force Harbaugh to stay. But if he leaves, it is silly to pretend that he is just a cog in the machine that made the current NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP team. Harbaugh has an incredible history of success at virtually every single stop. He turned Stanford into a successful program after decades of irrelevancy (to which they have largely returned since he left). He took the 49ers to a Super Bowl and to conference championship games in only a few years. And he took Michigan - a team which has not been competitive with the big boys since 2006 to 3 straight Big Ten Championships (with three straight wins over OSU) and a National Championship. I would argue that the only current coaches with his level of consistent success are Lincoln Riley, Kirby Smart and maybe Brian Kelly (meh). And Riley and Smart don't have half of the obstacles that Jim has in terms of admissions, limitations on NIL, etc.
Acting like the unique culture that Harbaugh has created here can be carried on by a collection of his assistants ignores just how special of a coach Harbaugh really is.
I don't know that Moore is an obvious successor. The fact that the team won with Moore as the acting HC - where Harbaugh was able to be involved in all aspects of the team, including practicing, game planning, etc. all week other than for 3 hours on game day - does not, by itself demonstrate that Moore is ready to take over as HC. College football (and the NFL) is replete with examples of teams promoting internal coordinators to fill HC vacancies and those promotions not working out.
This is not to say that Moore will NOT be a good HC in the future. But, being an OC and being a HC are completely different jobs. Most individuals who have had success as HC of a major program had prior experience as HC at smaller programs (or even larger programs). Moore has shown that he can be a competent OC (competent because our offense was very solid, played complementary football, and did not hurt the team, but was certainly not a world beating offense, which I am fine with as it worked with the general strategy of being low risk and allowing the defense to do its thing and win us games), but before he one day is a HC here, I would like to see him get some experience as a HC of a smaller MAC-level program.