Nowell was as good as advertised, what a performance. Nothing to hang our heads about — epic game, tough outcome. #3 ranked recruiting class coming in. Sparty on.
I’m an atheist, but I’m not so obtuse that I can’t take the thoughts and prayers in the spirit in which they’re given — especially in a moment like this. Strive to do better.
Yes. Occam’s razor is clear on this. It’s not that you’re biased in what you see, it’s that we are actually operating an elaborate plot to buy off every ref you’ve ever watched officiate an MSU game.
Agree with all of this except that only time will tell whether Mel's award will be an anomaly or not. If you were being honest, you'd admit we just don't know yet. He seems to be a decent coach, at worst.
Awesome season for you guys though, congrats. It was a great feeling every time we broke through in the Dantonio years — going through OSU is especially satisfying and glorious, and you didn't just get by them this weekend. You put it to them! I'm honestly happy for all my M friends and family (not so much you guys on this board tho :D).
Disgraceful implication, but I guess thanks for flagging yourself as an alt-right piece of shit. He took a team unanimously picked to finish dead last to 10-2. It's exceedingly easy to understand why this earned him the nod, but you went there. What an embarrassment.
Is it THAT excruciatingly difficult for you to acknowledge a good season for MSU? We were supposed to finish dead last. He inherited a radioactive hole of a program. The ref thing is now getting embarrassing for you guys, you had a 16 point lead late in the game and blew it WAY after that call. Time to accept that you got beat.
Tucker won ten games with a pretty underwhelming roster filled with gaping holes all over. It's a noteworthy accomplishment. IT IS OK, YOU'LL BE OK. You won the Division, you'll likely win the conference and go 'yoffing. You had a great year. Shouldn't you be feeling more magnanimous at this point in time?
In conclusion, don't be a bitch. You're making the rest of your brethren look bad.
He went out an GOT an exceptional RB in the transfer portal — identifying need, assessing options, making the pitch, and closing the deal. His players executed and scored on special teams against Nebraska.
You guys have a strange and remarkably self-serving concept of "luck."
We are definitely getting shellacked by them this weekend, doesn’t really change the calculus — especially since it’s donor money. We refused to ante up for Saban and got BWxJLS as a result.
Record aside, Tucker has inspired a ton of confidence already. It would be a wretched mistake to let him walk right now. If anything, I’d say the extensively documented “overachieving” is a mark in his favor; our roster is much weaker than people seem to realize. The guy motivates a resilient team that plays above its level. He’s a must-keep.
He's in his third season as a head coach. His second season was covid-shortened. What is this "often been" that you're referring to? Did you make it up? Can we read the full novel about Tucker's long and notably middling head coaching career? Can I get it on kindle?
Some call it fortunate, others call it ballsy & resilient. You don't ineptly fall into those wins when it's close and could go either way; any honest fan of the game will admit they have to be pulled out by force of will. A good head coach can give their team that wild card trait.
The thing MSU fans, admins, and donors see — that you probably don't, simply because you don't watch the program the same way — is that the team has certain intangibles that often prove very elusive in the college game. They're resilient, they're explosive (which even with the cupboard stocked, Dantonio's teams rarely were), and they've figured out how to stay in games and steal a W even when they've been outmatched on paper and even outplayed on the field. That last piece, especially, is very much about coaching.
Say what you will about "getting lucky" with a transfer player — good coaches have their teams playing above their level, and mediocre coaches find ways to lose DESPITE having such assets. We've played in close games, dealing with real challenges, and won more than our share of coin flip scenarios. Again, that's generally down to coaching.
This team won TWO games last year. They were widely picked to finish dead last in the East division this year. They're 9-1 in mid-November. Mel has objectively shown huge promise; all that could be asked for in the results column and then some. All the harping on transfers etc frankly does nothing to diminish that.
I think you're putting too much stock into some concept of his "historical mean", given that as a head coach so far he's had 1 full season at Colorado, a covid season at MSU, and this partial season. Small sample to confidently judge that, don't you think?
The problem is that a coaching hire is one of the lowest confidence, highest risk moves you can make. There are literally 1-2 people operating at the level everyone dreams about, that Saban/Urbs level. There’s a tiny handful of Dabos and the like, arguably a tier below and still very coveted.
Beyond that there are oceans of has-beens, half-asses, stars in their brief moment, never was-es, and never will bes, all with not a whole lot separating them on paper. It’s so wildly unpredictable, with the potential lows SO brutal and so nearby… we went from Nick Saban to Bobby Williams & John L Smith clownery in an eye blink. Dantonio was the goat, then suddenly lost the edge.
Harbaugh is a solidly above average, never-gonna-sink-the-ship guy. Michigan has all the assets, the brand, the money. You’ll inevitably be in the mix every so often. You’re ND (but your religion is yourselves). I wouldn’t mess with it, personally.
I think MSU’s best case scenario is “win all the others and avoid getting BADLY creamed by OSU.” That team looks poised to murk us. Tbh so would Bama or Georgia. I’d almost rather fall out of the CFP and have a nice Rose Bowl instead??
The yardage comparison feels misplaced IMO, it’s points that matter. Who cares about your yardage total if you come up with the L?
There were multiple 4th downs in MSU territory where Michigan could have gone for it and, as every Tom Dick and Harry team has done so far this year against MSU, probably converted. Harbaugh chose to kick. Coaching decision. It felt SO Lloyd. So conservative. Turn 1-2 of those FGs into touchdowns and you aren’t having this conversation.
Flip side though: as fans we lose sight of the absurdly thin margins in football, between a team that looks world-beating, one that looks woefully inept, and everything in between. It’s so easy to second guess those coaches. I thought both staffs did a pretty nice job scheming - Cade played a monster game, and your D ends were a nightmare for us. Both issues were very real problems for MSU and put Michigan in a position to conceivably win.
When the blows are landing both ways, it often comes down to mental toughness and resiliency — it sure seemed like MSU had it. Down 16 late in the third? Easy to see a team fold emotionally in that moment, and squander any remaining chance. The two straight TDs and 2 point conversions were amazing to see. The two gusty fourth down play calls, same. Intense game both ways though, fellas. I wouldn’t get too down on Harbs over this. ??♂️
He balled out, I was really impressed with Cade — and how well your OL kept the pocket clean around him. They gave him the opportunity and he used it to pick us apart.
Honestly Saturday's game was four hours of immense stress followed by a flood of relief at the very end. Got to feel for Cade (and the whole team). Impressive performance, legit squad. I guess I'm getting old and less salty than I used to be: I'll be rooting for Michigan (and for my wolverine friends & family's happiness) the rest of the way.
I disagree. If you'll pardon my admittedly heavy handed analogy, this is a little like prosecuting a newly-freed slave for attempting to escape the day before emancipation. The "no profiting from your name and likeness — only WE can do that" rule was unjust and shitty to begin with, we've finally seen that and dropped it, WHY DO we need a black and white timeframe for enforcing it?
Do you guys not feel the slightest shame or distaste letting the words "screw job" leave your lips with this annual frequency? It's football, it's officiated by human beings, mistakes are inevitable. Meanwhile, a guy ran for 200 yards and 5 touchdowns on your defense; perhaps you're focused on the wrong things.
Outside the maize bubble, your brand as a fan base is one of unearned arrogance, seasoned with constant crying about how everything's unfair and nothing is ever your fault — it's always fluke this and 1 inch that and waah screw job why won't Warde speak to the manager.
Sure, big picture I enjoy it, but... honestly, gross, don't you guys have any self awareness? You're my friends, neighbors, cousins. I want better for you, this makes me cringe.
Does winning 10 of the last 14 against you make us a better program? How about the multiple recent B1G championships, Rose Bowl appearance/victory, and CFP appearance? Still no?
It seems there’s a legitimate argument that you just aren’t ready to even entertain, because there’s an existential need in your fan base to feel *superior* to MSU.
I could roll out a longer "dirty plays" highlight reel of Taylor Lewan alone, it doesn't mean I go around thinking your coaches tell players to end people's careers.
dragonchild here's a quick tip: if you see an MSU fan around the neighborhood — say, a Sparty window sticker on some soccer mom's SUV — and the sight has you reflexively seething with rage, you are the problematic person in that scenario.
It's weird when people let their personal feelings about a rivalry get the better of them, and they start honest-to-god believing that Regular People Whose Allegiance Is To a Different School are actually shitty, horrible people who are "literally trying to end players' careers."
Sir, get a grip on your runaway imagination, this is embarrassing. Literally nobody is trying to end anyone's career. Take deep breaths.
MSU is mostly bad with moments of pseudo-competence. I don’t see us moving in any particular “direction” at all right now, FWIW.
You may be overstating the, um, state... of State.
Guys I haven’t watched you enough this year to know if Harbaugh is truly the clown I like to assume he is, but it’s a weird year in general to be making bigger picture calls based on the league, MSU beating “top ten” Northwestern, etc.
Sorry to hear this Toby, even though I hate so much about the things that you choose to be. Being single sounds like it could be fun though! I... don't remember what that's like. Please. For me. Go have fun.
Recent Comments
Two senior starters tonight, I think 3 or 4 total on the roster including Steven Izzo. But go ahead.
Nowell was as good as advertised, what a performance. Nothing to hang our heads about — epic game, tough outcome. #3 ranked recruiting class coming in. Sparty on.
You mean we missed it a whopping twice between then and now? Aren’t y’all supposed to be the smart ones?
Word. Appreciate your kind thoughts.
I’m an atheist, but I’m not so obtuse that I can’t take the thoughts and prayers in the spirit in which they’re given — especially in a moment like this. Strive to do better.
Going out on a limb here, maybe it's his alma mater that gets you irrationally heated 😂
You only need to start somewhere to be an alum. You don't need to finish! :)
Love me some Monkish, the best Hazy on this side of the country
And beats your ass ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Yes. Occam’s razor is clear on this. It’s not that you’re biased in what you see, it’s that we are actually operating an elaborate plot to buy off every ref you’ve ever watched officiate an MSU game.
I think it’s time for this board to put the “Izzo is too emotional” thing to bed.
You're not wrong, I spend my energy so stupidly.
Agree with all of this except that only time will tell whether Mel's award will be an anomaly or not. If you were being honest, you'd admit we just don't know yet. He seems to be a decent coach, at worst.
Awesome season for you guys though, congrats. It was a great feeling every time we broke through in the Dantonio years — going through OSU is especially satisfying and glorious, and you didn't just get by them this weekend. You put it to them! I'm honestly happy for all my M friends and family (not so much you guys on this board tho :D).
Disgraceful implication, but I guess thanks for flagging yourself as an alt-right piece of shit. He took a team unanimously picked to finish dead last to 10-2. It's exceedingly easy to understand why this earned him the nod, but you went there. What an embarrassment.
Is it THAT excruciatingly difficult for you to acknowledge a good season for MSU? We were supposed to finish dead last. He inherited a radioactive hole of a program. The ref thing is now getting embarrassing for you guys, you had a 16 point lead late in the game and blew it WAY after that call. Time to accept that you got beat.
Tucker won ten games with a pretty underwhelming roster filled with gaping holes all over. It's a noteworthy accomplishment. IT IS OK, YOU'LL BE OK. You won the Division, you'll likely win the conference and go 'yoffing. You had a great year. Shouldn't you be feeling more magnanimous at this point in time?
In conclusion, don't be a bitch. You're making the rest of your brethren look bad.
He went out an GOT an exceptional RB in the transfer portal — identifying need, assessing options, making the pitch, and closing the deal. His players executed and scored on special teams against Nebraska.
You guys have a strange and remarkably self-serving concept of "luck."
Disagree that Michigan "can't say a word until they beat him," look around this community... many words are said, effusively.
the name Mel Fucker is right there, staring at you
We are definitely getting shellacked by them this weekend, doesn’t really change the calculus — especially since it’s donor money. We refused to ante up for Saban and got BWxJLS as a result.
Record aside, Tucker has inspired a ton of confidence already. It would be a wretched mistake to let him walk right now. If anything, I’d say the extensively documented “overachieving” is a mark in his favor; our roster is much weaker than people seem to realize. The guy motivates a resilient team that plays above its level. He’s a must-keep.
He's in his third season as a head coach. His second season was covid-shortened. What is this "often been" that you're referring to? Did you make it up? Can we read the full novel about Tucker's long and notably middling head coaching career? Can I get it on kindle?
Some call it fortunate, others call it ballsy & resilient. You don't ineptly fall into those wins when it's close and could go either way; any honest fan of the game will admit they have to be pulled out by force of will. A good head coach can give their team that wild card trait.
The thing MSU fans, admins, and donors see — that you probably don't, simply because you don't watch the program the same way — is that the team has certain intangibles that often prove very elusive in the college game. They're resilient, they're explosive (which even with the cupboard stocked, Dantonio's teams rarely were), and they've figured out how to stay in games and steal a W even when they've been outmatched on paper and even outplayed on the field. That last piece, especially, is very much about coaching.
Say what you will about "getting lucky" with a transfer player — good coaches have their teams playing above their level, and mediocre coaches find ways to lose DESPITE having such assets. We've played in close games, dealing with real challenges, and won more than our share of coin flip scenarios. Again, that's generally down to coaching.
This team won TWO games last year. They were widely picked to finish dead last in the East division this year. They're 9-1 in mid-November. Mel has objectively shown huge promise; all that could be asked for in the results column and then some. All the harping on transfers etc frankly does nothing to diminish that.
I think you're putting too much stock into some concept of his "historical mean", given that as a head coach so far he's had 1 full season at Colorado, a covid season at MSU, and this partial season. Small sample to confidently judge that, don't you think?
is this that Deep Rut of Gloomy Sadness or whatever?
I've watched it at least four times already. My family is less than thrilled.
The problem is that a coaching hire is one of the lowest confidence, highest risk moves you can make. There are literally 1-2 people operating at the level everyone dreams about, that Saban/Urbs level. There’s a tiny handful of Dabos and the like, arguably a tier below and still very coveted.
Beyond that there are oceans of has-beens, half-asses, stars in their brief moment, never was-es, and never will bes, all with not a whole lot separating them on paper. It’s so wildly unpredictable, with the potential lows SO brutal and so nearby… we went from Nick Saban to Bobby Williams & John L Smith clownery in an eye blink. Dantonio was the goat, then suddenly lost the edge.
Harbaugh is a solidly above average, never-gonna-sink-the-ship guy. Michigan has all the assets, the brand, the money. You’ll inevitably be in the mix every so often. You’re ND (but your religion is yourselves). I wouldn’t mess with it, personally.
I’d hardly even call it an upset. They’re built just right to give us fits, and the spread reflects that
I think MSU’s best case scenario is “win all the others and avoid getting BADLY creamed by OSU.” That team looks poised to murk us. Tbh so would Bama or Georgia. I’d almost rather fall out of the CFP and have a nice Rose Bowl instead??
To be fair, we were already saying that like three weeks ago. We won TWO games last year ?
As much as I want to pretend 2015 was like two weeks ago, it’s been a hot minute since we beat them ? *windmills sadly*
Sure, but the time before THAT we only lost by one ?
The yardage comparison feels misplaced IMO, it’s points that matter. Who cares about your yardage total if you come up with the L?
There were multiple 4th downs in MSU territory where Michigan could have gone for it and, as every Tom Dick and Harry team has done so far this year against MSU, probably converted. Harbaugh chose to kick. Coaching decision. It felt SO Lloyd. So conservative. Turn 1-2 of those FGs into touchdowns and you aren’t having this conversation.
Flip side though: as fans we lose sight of the absurdly thin margins in football, between a team that looks world-beating, one that looks woefully inept, and everything in between. It’s so easy to second guess those coaches. I thought both staffs did a pretty nice job scheming - Cade played a monster game, and your D ends were a nightmare for us. Both issues were very real problems for MSU and put Michigan in a position to conceivably win.
When the blows are landing both ways, it often comes down to mental toughness and resiliency — it sure seemed like MSU had it. Down 16 late in the third? Easy to see a team fold emotionally in that moment, and squander any remaining chance. The two straight TDs and 2 point conversions were amazing to see. The two gusty fourth down play calls, same. Intense game both ways though, fellas. I wouldn’t get too down on Harbs over this. ??♂️
He balled out, I was really impressed with Cade — and how well your OL kept the pocket clean around him. They gave him the opportunity and he used it to pick us apart.
Honestly Saturday's game was four hours of immense stress followed by a flood of relief at the very end. Got to feel for Cade (and the whole team). Impressive performance, legit squad. I guess I'm getting old and less salty than I used to be: I'll be rooting for Michigan (and for my wolverine friends & family's happiness) the rest of the way.
Mass exploitation of — and enrichment on the backs of — these kids’ physical prowess? It’s not the leap you’re implying.
I disagree. If you'll pardon my admittedly heavy handed analogy, this is a little like prosecuting a newly-freed slave for attempting to escape the day before emancipation. The "no profiting from your name and likeness — only WE can do that" rule was unjust and shitty to begin with, we've finally seen that and dropped it, WHY DO we need a black and white timeframe for enforcing it?
sir, something tastes off about these grapes
I’m following my team. Drinking your tears on the monday after another win against Michigan is a sparty rite of passage, thank you for participating!
Flukiest lucky win ever, and by ever I mean since the last one
This is the guy who Bunyan-posed for a photo opp up 7-0 in the first quarter, right?
The one who’s technically not even supposed to be on the sidelines, per NCAA rules? Real nice.
Do you guys not feel the slightest shame or distaste letting the words "screw job" leave your lips with this annual frequency? It's football, it's officiated by human beings, mistakes are inevitable. Meanwhile, a guy ran for 200 yards and 5 touchdowns on your defense; perhaps you're focused on the wrong things.
Outside the maize bubble, your brand as a fan base is one of unearned arrogance, seasoned with constant crying about how everything's unfair and nothing is ever your fault — it's always fluke this and 1 inch that and waah screw job why won't Warde speak to the manager.
Sure, big picture I enjoy it, but... honestly, gross, don't you guys have any self awareness? You're my friends, neighbors, cousins. I want better for you, this makes me cringe.
Walker was already known good at Wake, and Tucker actively went out and recruited him to MSU to fill a roster need.
It’s bizarre to minimize this; recruiting and roster management is a major part of the man’s job — KW3 at MSU didn’t happen by mistake.
Does winning 10 of the last 14 against you make us a better program? How about the multiple recent B1G championships, Rose Bowl appearance/victory, and CFP appearance? Still no?
It seems there’s a legitimate argument that you just aren’t ready to even entertain, because there’s an existential need in your fan base to feel *superior* to MSU.
I could roll out a longer "dirty plays" highlight reel of Taylor Lewan alone, it doesn't mean I go around thinking your coaches tell players to end people's careers.
dragonchild here's a quick tip: if you see an MSU fan around the neighborhood — say, a Sparty window sticker on some soccer mom's SUV — and the sight has you reflexively seething with rage, you are the problematic person in that scenario.
It's weird when people let their personal feelings about a rivalry get the better of them, and they start honest-to-god believing that Regular People Whose Allegiance Is To a Different School are actually shitty, horrible people who are "literally trying to end players' careers."
Sir, get a grip on your runaway imagination, this is embarrassing. Literally nobody is trying to end anyone's career. Take deep breaths.
This comment sort of feels off-topic for the thread? Anyway, breaking news: radio call-in fans are mostly weirdos. More on that shocking story at 11.
MSU is mostly bad with moments of pseudo-competence. I don’t see us moving in any particular “direction” at all right now, FWIW.
You may be overstating the, um, state... of State.
Guys I haven’t watched you enough this year to know if Harbaugh is truly the clown I like to assume he is, but it’s a weird year in general to be making bigger picture calls based on the league, MSU beating “top ten” Northwestern, etc.
Sorry to hear this Toby, even though I hate so much about the things that you choose to be. Being single sounds like it could be fun though! I... don't remember what that's like. Please. For me. Go have fun.
Yeezus, how do you delete a post around here? Help out a poor dumb sparty