somehow we're only 124th
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|2 weeks 4 days ago||It was added because Brandon||
It was added because Brandon wanted to add it and because JP had built a monster of a club program that was successful both at winning and raising money. DB always said he was adding it for business reasons. He thought the growth trends showed lacrosse would be a much bigger sport in the future and wanted to be on the front end of that. The money that was raised was not nearly enough to endow the program. That would take 20 or 30 million at least. DB said it was just to offset costs the first couple of years.
If the average cost of a scholarship is about $50k, and lacrosse gets 12.6 (the NCAA limit), that would make the annual cost to the athletic department $630,000. Not insignificant, but won't break the bank.
|3 weeks 1 day ago||Can't answer that, but I do||
Can't answer that, but I do know the team won the department's community service award two years ago. Since then they switched to recognizing individuals, and Jeff Chu was one of the winners last year. So they take that role seriously.
|3 weeks 3 days ago||Only the 3rd varsity athlete||
Only the 3rd varsity athlete or are you including all athletes? Abdul was on the varsity-club lacrosse team. Won the Rhodes and the Marshall and was commencement speaker in 2007.
|5 weeks 2 days ago||Football and basketball||
Football and basketball generate net revenue, although you could remove the basketball revenues and barely notice the hit to the overall budget. Hockey is more or less break-even and made money in the Big Chill year because of that one game. No other sport at Michigan makes more than it spends.
But it's not quite that simple. Facilities are paid for mostly through donations. Some scholarships and coaching positions are endowed. Other revenue sources bring in a lot (BTN, donations, sponsors, etc.).
I do know that in the case of lacrosse the first few years of operating expenses were covered by donors. I know this because I'm one of them (although my check was pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things).
|6 weeks 13 hours ago||Maryland lacrosse, both men||
Maryland lacrosse, both men and women, are also very good.
|6 weeks 1 day ago||Obviously none of you, in||
Obviously none of you, in fact, played lacrosse.
LaCrosse = city in Wisconsin.
lacrosse = sport
no capital C
Sorry, pet peeve. Back to discussion...
|6 weeks 6 days ago||Or even the lacrosse team.||
Or even the lacrosse team.
|8 weeks 6 days ago||Varsity lacrosse||
Varsity lacrosse (obviously).
Night football games. I wish we played one or two every year. Best atmosphere I've seen in my 50 years of going to games. The wins in those games don't hurt.
Support for all non-revenue sports. Important to remember that new facilities come from donor gifts, not from ticket revenues. Many of those donors wouldn't give for other causes. They want to see their names on buildings and/or direct their money that way. More power to them. Also important to note that while lacrosse is a non-revenue sport, they raised a ton of money on their own to kickstart the varsity program and probably brought of lot of additional potential donor support in the future.
|10 weeks 15 hours ago||Partly devil's advocate here||
Partly devil's advocate here and partly just asking questions...
Does Alabama charge less for student tickets? If so, what are their student fees? Michigan finally raised student fees last year to help pay for desperately needed new recreational facilities, but they are still far below the national average I believe. A lot of schools charge huge student fees to cover part of the athletic budget and recreational sports, which is basically taxing every student for sports whether they attend games or use facilities or not. Michigan does not do that. They charge more for the students that want to attend instead. (Not saying one is right or wrong - just different ways to fund the same things.)
Has Alabama attempted to endow coaching positions or the AD position? Do you believe they would turn that down if offered? I don't. It's not an uncommon practice at schools that have that kind of donor support. Many university positions and professorships are named. Even some presidencies.
From everything I've read the families of the football legends have bought into the program. Is there evidence out there that they haven't? Desmond Howard, the Ford family, the Harmon family all seem supportive, and I would guess the rest are too. I'm not in love with it and it doesn't bother me, but do we do damage to relationships with those important Michigan football families by removing the program?
How important are alternate uniforms to modern recruiting? I don't know. By limiting those or removing them, do we handicap recruiting, especially at a time when we could use all the help we can get in attracting and keeping top talent committed.
I can't come up with any challenging questions about the piped in music. I like the band whenever they aren't dancing.
Agree completely on the non-revenue sports. There's a balance though between how much we can cut and how much we can provide. If I had a beef with naming the AD or HC positions, for example, but had to chose between that and providing the new lacrosse facility or an expanded academic center, I know what I'm choosing. (By the way, I am willing to offer up my user name as a naming opportunity. The Stephen Ross laxalum has a nice ring to it.)
|12 weeks 17 hours ago||I am in love||
that is all
|20 weeks 2 days ago||Inside Lacrosse had||
Inside Lacrosse had Michigan's 2016 class in their top 5, along with Duke, Hopkins, UNC and Virginia. Pretty good company for a program this young. That seems to be their first really big-time class, which makes sense as it takes some time to catch up with the big boys.
By the way, one of the highly ranked 2016 commits is Christian Ford. His grandfather wore #48 for the football team and accomplished some other significant things in his life too.
From all indications they are following up with another top class with 2017s.
Michigan is Michigan, but it's impressive that they are getting this done with no facilities yet and very few wins.
|23 weeks 3 days ago||This thread always turns into||
This thread always turns into an argument about who makes the best valued sandwich in town, but to me AK47's is the response that nails it. Zingerman's is about a lot more than grabbing a sandwich to a lot of people. If you're a foodie hater then you're not going to like the place. It's all about great food, and it's made for people who appreciate tasting 10 olive oils to find the right one or having a passionate employee educate you (and provide tastes to back it up) on cheese production as you look for the perfect one for a special occasion. If what I just wrote pisses you off, then Zingerman's is the wrong place to go.
I don't usually get a Reuben when I go to Zingerman's or to Maize and Blue or any other deli, but when I taste similar sandwiches at each place I don't detect a huge difference...except for the bread. Zingerman's wins there hands down in my opinion. If you disagree, more power to you. They aren't the only deli that deserves to be in business.
My favorite times at Zingermans are in the morning for breakfast, something I do every time I'm back in town. It's quiet. If the weather is nice you can sit outside. They have really, really good coffee.
For the record, I'm a big fan of Dibella's and love a good Wreck at Potbellys as much as the next red-blooded American.
|32 weeks 2 days ago||First two classes were ranked||
First two classes were ranked about 20. Not sure where the 2014 or 2015 classes are ranked, but they crushed it with their 2016 class which is in the top 5 right now along with the usual suspects like Duke, Virginia and Hopkins.
|32 weeks 6 days ago||It's a great sport to watch.||
It's a great sport to watch. I've been able to make it back to two games in the Big House, and it's definitely a "Wow" experience. As in...wow, is this place empty. One of those was the spring game day two years ago when I think they had 5,000 at the lacrosse game, a solid crowd for any UM sport not called hockey, basketball or football. But even then the place felt pretty empty, as you can imagine. Yes, they do use the video boards. The replays help a lot. They are planning on building a lacrosse stadium which I would assume won't have 109,901 seats. If it's the right size I hope that lacrosse eventually becomes a fan experience similar to hockey in Yost. The sports are so similar, it's a definite possibility. Of course the fact that half the season is played in the winter doesn't help either. Lacrosse season should be March - June, not February - May.
|32 weeks 6 days ago||3 years of recruits, not 4.||
3 years of recruits, not 4. The first year they didn't have any. But that is a good point about the classes improving. Inside Lacrosse has their 2016 class ranked in the top 5, which is huge for the program but won't impact them for a few years. To compete with the big boys consistently they will need some of those kinds of classes.
|32 weeks 6 days ago||I'm pretty happy with how far||
I'm pretty happy with how far the team has come so far. They have overcome a lot of challenges (true transition from club to varsity, youth, key injuries, brutal schedule, no facilites of their own, only two recruiting classes so far, etc) to show obvious improvement, both in their record and with the eye test. This is not a sport where a new team can storm right into ECAC or Big Ten championships and Final Fours, but the trend is positive and by all accounts recruiting is going very well. The next step is probably playing in more close games against top 30 teams and winning one or two of them. If they can make the Big Ten tournament next year, which would mean finishing above Rutgers and one of either Ohio State or Penn State, that would be a hell of an accomplishment for a team without four recruiting classes on the roster. But I don't think a lot of people expected them to make the ECAC tournament this year, so who knows?
It will be interesting to see how they schedule next year. If the past three years is any indication, there won't be too many games they are favored in. We know we are getting Hopkins, Maryland, PSU, OSU and Rutgers. Will the other 9-10 games include ACC, Ivy and Patriot level teams, or will they fill it out mostly with bottom 20 teams?
|35 weeks 5 days ago||Aside from High Point, have||
Aside from High Point, have they lost to a newer program? And remember that HPU has one more recruiting class and was on the road. You could say they shouldn't lose that (I wouldn't yet), but conversely you could say they shouldn't beat Detroit or Bellarmine at this point, which they did. Or they shouldn't play teams like Cornell, Fairfield and Air Force (who beat Fairfield today) as close as they did. This team isn't that talented yet, and as young as they are they are wildly inconsistent.
|35 weeks 5 days ago||Disclaimer: I played with||
Disclaimer: I played with JP
It's a fair question, although I personally know him to be an outstanding coach, and you won't find a guy who loves Michigan more. The answer is, it's too early to know. They have two recruiting classes in with better ones on the way. Lots of young guys and former club guys on the field. There's no question the team is improving. They are much better than they were last year. It would take any coach some time to build, especially starting with a club roster, no facilities, etc.
|39 weeks 1 day ago||True. Raffa was out. But||
True. Raffa was out. But Lott has already had very good days against some top faceoff guys (Kennedy at Hopkins and Tesoriero at Cornell). It's very hard to dominate in every game at that position. So much of it comes down to rythym or that particular match-up of techniques. I thought he had a below average day yesterday by his standards.
|39 weeks 1 day ago||You're right||
Don't need. We don't need a 109,901 seat football stadium or a revamped Crisler either. But we have those things in order to be successful enough in those sports to create the revenue necessary to build things like lacrosse stadiums (or to add lacrosse in the first place). Why did we build the wrestling practice facility or redo the baseball and softball stadiums for that matter? They will get a lacrosse facility because the mission in Ann Arbor is to be the best and the resources exist to make a good run at getting there.
I agree with Wahoo that from a recruiting standpoint a dedicated facility is a much better draw than playing in Michigan Stadium. I've played lacrosse in empty college and pro football stadiums. It's cool once. Then it kind of sucks.
|39 weeks 1 day ago||DeLuca would be a great hire||
DeLuca would be a great hire pretty much anywhere.
But I would be shocked if Texas adds lacrosse any time soon. We all hear these "word on the street" rumors about new programs at big name schools all the time, and except for Michigan they have all been false for the past 35 years. A few years ago it was Florida State getting all the buzz. Suprise me Longhorns.
|39 weeks 1 day ago||Defense is short handed||
Their best defender this year has been Gembis, and I didn't see him yesterday. Injured? I hope not, because he has seemed to be the one guy who can consistently d up good attackmen, he's great at ground balls and he's been a big part of the clear. Keady, who was probably going to start this year, has been out all year from an injury in the fall. That's two starting close D out. Moore has also been out for awhile, and I got the impression he was pushing Brown for starting LSM duties. And of course they are playing the whole season without one of the best goalies in the country in Logan. That's four potential starters or at least heavy rotation guys at D who were out. For a young team that's not that deep, that's a pretty big hit - especially against Maryland.
It has been good to see guys like Zonino, Hatton, Walker and Sherman step up to fill some of those roles this year, but aside from Sherman they are still depending on a lot of young guys at positions where young guys usually don't play much.
Seeing the stream yesterday just made me wish men's and women's lacrosse were more similar - or at least used the same lines. You're seeing a field with lines for three sports (football, men's lacrosse and women's lacrosse). It just looks messy, and it has to be confusing for people just getting to know lacrosse.
|39 weeks 4 days ago||5 Year Plan||
What is your vision of where they should be in five years? Competing with Maryland, Hopkins, PSU and OSU for Big Ten championships? I have no doubt they will get there, but I think 5 years from the inception of the program is a bit ambitious to be at that level. At least it's ambitious to be at that level consistently. But I do think they will be a very good lacrosse team in a couple more years. Think in the 20-30 range on Laxpower.
Their results this year are a pretty good indication that they are on the right track. Winning what was essentially a tournament game, on the road, outdoors (I assume they have not practiced outdoors at home yet) yesterday was huge for a team this young. But keep in mind that they won that game in OT despite winning almost every faceoff. If Lott doesn't go off, do they have a shot?
Is the Maryland game on Tuesday in Oosterbaan or will the Big House be ready? If it's inside, I like Michigan's chances to make it fairly close. If it's outside, could be ugly.
|40 weeks 17 hours ago||Good perspective. Highlights||
Good perspective. Highlights how quickly the game is growing.
LandryHD - it's on TV a fair amount. Mostly ESPNu, but also NBC Sports Network, CBS College Sports, and other random games on regional channels like Altitude and SNY. If you look you can find multiple televised games every weekend. I'm hopeful that BTN will get into it in a bigger way once the conference starts up next year.
This has been discussed on here a lot already, but I don't think the UM start is slower than expected. They started with the club roster and no transfers. No way that team was winning more than a game or two in their first year, and even year two was a stretch. Compare that to High Point where they have three recruiting classes and a number of impactful transfers. Most new programs have built that way. Michigan chose to do it differently. With two classes here now you're just starting to see how that pays off. Our boys have also played a much tougher schedule than any of the other new programs. After the Maryland game next week they will have played four (FOUR!) top 10 teams already. We should have high expectations, but it will take time.
The ECAC is not weak either, even though it's a lame duck conference. The other four schools are all still significantly ahead of Michigan. Bellarmine this weekend may be the best shot at a conference win this year. Ohio State was a quarterfinal team last year, and Fairfield is playing very well this season so far. Air Force is flirting with being a tournament team, and playing them out there at altitude is not an easy proposition. I'd be very pleasantly surprised if we pulled off a conference win this year.
|43 weeks 17 hours ago||Brad Lott. 22 of 30 on||
22 of 30 on faceoffs. There's your difference maker. Didn't play in the first two games (didn't matter against Mercer, but they got killed by PSU on faceoffs). Real test for him is this weekend against Hopkins. Their faceoff guy is very good and their wings will be elite athletes.
|45 weeks 2 days ago||Just more evidence pointing||
Just more evidence pointing to how meaningles scrimmage results are to predicting success.
|45 weeks 2 days ago||mgoblue says they beat||
mgoblue says they beat Marquette 14-6 last year
|45 weeks 3 days ago||Depends. Two more years and||
Depends. Two more years and they will have four recruiting classes here. That's always a pretty good time to measure a program's progress. Four or five more years and they will have some elite recruiting classes here if all of the hype about their 2016 class is for real and they can follow it up with similar classes in 2017 and beyond. Facilties will be build by then too you would assume.
|45 weeks 4 days ago||They beat Marquette 18-9||
They beat Marquette 18-9 FWIW. Scrimmage scores never tell you that much.
|1 year 1 day ago||I don't disagree with your||
I don't disagree with your premise that Martin doesn't get enough credit for many of the projects he started, but I have to disagree about lacrosse. The one positive impact he had on the program was elevating it to "varsity club" level in 2001. Other than that, he pretty much ignored the sport as far as I could tell. Athletics had nothing to do with Hopkins and Army coming to scrimmage the club team in 2007. That's why the game was at Elbel instead of at an athletic department facility. That event was scheduled by JP (he and the Hopkins and Army coaches are close) and run by the Recreational Sports Department, which oversees club sports. I was one of the many alums in attendance (it was a great night that made me really proud to have been part of the program), and I remember that Bill Martin was supposed to make an appearance but never showed. The Army AD, who is now the Maryland AD, was there by the way. I had an opportunity to chat with him.
Until a few years ago the athletic department technically oversaw the rec sports department, but the two had virtually nothing to do with each other. Now rec sports is completely separate from athletics.