|3 weeks 3 days ago||It was added because Brandon||
It was added because Brandon wanted to add it and because JP had built a monster of a club program that was successful both at winning and raising money. DB always said he was adding it for business reasons. He thought the growth trends showed lacrosse would be a much bigger sport in the future and wanted to be on the front end of that. The money that was raised was not nearly enough to endow the program. That would take 20 or 30 million at least. DB said it was just to offset costs the first couple of years.
If the average cost of a scholarship is about $50k, and lacrosse gets 12.6 (the NCAA limit), that would make the annual cost to the athletic department $630,000. Not insignificant, but won't break the bank.
|4 weeks 19 hours ago||Can't answer that, but I do||
Can't answer that, but I do know the team won the department's community service award two years ago. Since then they switched to recognizing individuals, and Jeff Chu was one of the winners last year. So they take that role seriously.
|4 weeks 2 days ago||Only the 3rd varsity athlete||
Only the 3rd varsity athlete or are you including all athletes? Abdul was on the varsity-club lacrosse team. Won the Rhodes and the Marshall and was commencement speaker in 2007.
|6 weeks 1 day ago||Football and basketball||
Football and basketball generate net revenue, although you could remove the basketball revenues and barely notice the hit to the overall budget. Hockey is more or less break-even and made money in the Big Chill year because of that one game. No other sport at Michigan makes more than it spends.
But it's not quite that simple. Facilities are paid for mostly through donations. Some scholarships and coaching positions are endowed. Other revenue sources bring in a lot (BTN, donations, sponsors, etc.).
I do know that in the case of lacrosse the first few years of operating expenses were covered by donors. I know this because I'm one of them (although my check was pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things).
|6 weeks 6 days ago||Maryland lacrosse, both men||
Maryland lacrosse, both men and women, are also very good.
|7 weeks 21 hours ago||Obviously none of you, in||
Obviously none of you, in fact, played lacrosse.
LaCrosse = city in Wisconsin.
lacrosse = sport
no capital C
Sorry, pet peeve. Back to discussion...
|7 weeks 5 days ago||Or even the lacrosse team.||
Or even the lacrosse team.
|9 weeks 5 days ago||Varsity lacrosse||
Varsity lacrosse (obviously).
Night football games. I wish we played one or two every year. Best atmosphere I've seen in my 50 years of going to games. The wins in those games don't hurt.
Support for all non-revenue sports. Important to remember that new facilities come from donor gifts, not from ticket revenues. Many of those donors wouldn't give for other causes. They want to see their names on buildings and/or direct their money that way. More power to them. Also important to note that while lacrosse is a non-revenue sport, they raised a ton of money on their own to kickstart the varsity program and probably brought of lot of additional potential donor support in the future.
|10 weeks 6 days ago||Partly devil's advocate here||
Partly devil's advocate here and partly just asking questions...
Does Alabama charge less for student tickets? If so, what are their student fees? Michigan finally raised student fees last year to help pay for desperately needed new recreational facilities, but they are still far below the national average I believe. A lot of schools charge huge student fees to cover part of the athletic budget and recreational sports, which is basically taxing every student for sports whether they attend games or use facilities or not. Michigan does not do that. They charge more for the students that want to attend instead. (Not saying one is right or wrong - just different ways to fund the same things.)
Has Alabama attempted to endow coaching positions or the AD position? Do you believe they would turn that down if offered? I don't. It's not an uncommon practice at schools that have that kind of donor support. Many university positions and professorships are named. Even some presidencies.
From everything I've read the families of the football legends have bought into the program. Is there evidence out there that they haven't? Desmond Howard, the Ford family, the Harmon family all seem supportive, and I would guess the rest are too. I'm not in love with it and it doesn't bother me, but do we do damage to relationships with those important Michigan football families by removing the program?
How important are alternate uniforms to modern recruiting? I don't know. By limiting those or removing them, do we handicap recruiting, especially at a time when we could use all the help we can get in attracting and keeping top talent committed.
I can't come up with any challenging questions about the piped in music. I like the band whenever they aren't dancing.
Agree completely on the non-revenue sports. There's a balance though between how much we can cut and how much we can provide. If I had a beef with naming the AD or HC positions, for example, but had to chose between that and providing the new lacrosse facility or an expanded academic center, I know what I'm choosing. (By the way, I am willing to offer up my user name as a naming opportunity. The Stephen Ross laxalum has a nice ring to it.)
|12 weeks 6 days ago||I am in love||
that is all
|21 weeks 1 day ago||Inside Lacrosse had||
Inside Lacrosse had Michigan's 2016 class in their top 5, along with Duke, Hopkins, UNC and Virginia. Pretty good company for a program this young. That seems to be their first really big-time class, which makes sense as it takes some time to catch up with the big boys.
By the way, one of the highly ranked 2016 commits is Christian Ford. His grandfather wore #48 for the football team and accomplished some other significant things in his life too.
From all indications they are following up with another top class with 2017s.
Michigan is Michigan, but it's impressive that they are getting this done with no facilities yet and very few wins.
|24 weeks 2 days ago||This thread always turns into||
This thread always turns into an argument about who makes the best valued sandwich in town, but to me AK47's is the response that nails it. Zingerman's is about a lot more than grabbing a sandwich to a lot of people. If you're a foodie hater then you're not going to like the place. It's all about great food, and it's made for people who appreciate tasting 10 olive oils to find the right one or having a passionate employee educate you (and provide tastes to back it up) on cheese production as you look for the perfect one for a special occasion. If what I just wrote pisses you off, then Zingerman's is the wrong place to go.
I don't usually get a Reuben when I go to Zingerman's or to Maize and Blue or any other deli, but when I taste similar sandwiches at each place I don't detect a huge difference...except for the bread. Zingerman's wins there hands down in my opinion. If you disagree, more power to you. They aren't the only deli that deserves to be in business.
My favorite times at Zingermans are in the morning for breakfast, something I do every time I'm back in town. It's quiet. If the weather is nice you can sit outside. They have really, really good coffee.
For the record, I'm a big fan of Dibella's and love a good Wreck at Potbellys as much as the next red-blooded American.
|33 weeks 1 day ago||First two classes were ranked||
First two classes were ranked about 20. Not sure where the 2014 or 2015 classes are ranked, but they crushed it with their 2016 class which is in the top 5 right now along with the usual suspects like Duke, Virginia and Hopkins.
|33 weeks 5 days ago||It's a great sport to watch.||
It's a great sport to watch. I've been able to make it back to two games in the Big House, and it's definitely a "Wow" experience. As in...wow, is this place empty. One of those was the spring game day two years ago when I think they had 5,000 at the lacrosse game, a solid crowd for any UM sport not called hockey, basketball or football. But even then the place felt pretty empty, as you can imagine. Yes, they do use the video boards. The replays help a lot. They are planning on building a lacrosse stadium which I would assume won't have 109,901 seats. If it's the right size I hope that lacrosse eventually becomes a fan experience similar to hockey in Yost. The sports are so similar, it's a definite possibility. Of course the fact that half the season is played in the winter doesn't help either. Lacrosse season should be March - June, not February - May.
|33 weeks 5 days ago||3 years of recruits, not 4.||
3 years of recruits, not 4. The first year they didn't have any. But that is a good point about the classes improving. Inside Lacrosse has their 2016 class ranked in the top 5, which is huge for the program but won't impact them for a few years. To compete with the big boys consistently they will need some of those kinds of classes.
|33 weeks 5 days ago||I'm pretty happy with how far||
I'm pretty happy with how far the team has come so far. They have overcome a lot of challenges (true transition from club to varsity, youth, key injuries, brutal schedule, no facilites of their own, only two recruiting classes so far, etc) to show obvious improvement, both in their record and with the eye test. This is not a sport where a new team can storm right into ECAC or Big Ten championships and Final Fours, but the trend is positive and by all accounts recruiting is going very well. The next step is probably playing in more close games against top 30 teams and winning one or two of them. If they can make the Big Ten tournament next year, which would mean finishing above Rutgers and one of either Ohio State or Penn State, that would be a hell of an accomplishment for a team without four recruiting classes on the roster. But I don't think a lot of people expected them to make the ECAC tournament this year, so who knows?
It will be interesting to see how they schedule next year. If the past three years is any indication, there won't be too many games they are favored in. We know we are getting Hopkins, Maryland, PSU, OSU and Rutgers. Will the other 9-10 games include ACC, Ivy and Patriot level teams, or will they fill it out mostly with bottom 20 teams?
|36 weeks 4 days ago||Aside from High Point, have||
Aside from High Point, have they lost to a newer program? And remember that HPU has one more recruiting class and was on the road. You could say they shouldn't lose that (I wouldn't yet), but conversely you could say they shouldn't beat Detroit or Bellarmine at this point, which they did. Or they shouldn't play teams like Cornell, Fairfield and Air Force (who beat Fairfield today) as close as they did. This team isn't that talented yet, and as young as they are they are wildly inconsistent.
|36 weeks 4 days ago||Disclaimer: I played with||
Disclaimer: I played with JP
It's a fair question, although I personally know him to be an outstanding coach, and you won't find a guy who loves Michigan more. The answer is, it's too early to know. They have two recruiting classes in with better ones on the way. Lots of young guys and former club guys on the field. There's no question the team is improving. They are much better than they were last year. It would take any coach some time to build, especially starting with a club roster, no facilities, etc.
|40 weeks 21 hours ago||True. Raffa was out. But||
True. Raffa was out. But Lott has already had very good days against some top faceoff guys (Kennedy at Hopkins and Tesoriero at Cornell). It's very hard to dominate in every game at that position. So much of it comes down to rythym or that particular match-up of techniques. I thought he had a below average day yesterday by his standards.
|40 weeks 23 hours ago||You're right||
Don't need. We don't need a 109,901 seat football stadium or a revamped Crisler either. But we have those things in order to be successful enough in those sports to create the revenue necessary to build things like lacrosse stadiums (or to add lacrosse in the first place). Why did we build the wrestling practice facility or redo the baseball and softball stadiums for that matter? They will get a lacrosse facility because the mission in Ann Arbor is to be the best and the resources exist to make a good run at getting there.
I agree with Wahoo that from a recruiting standpoint a dedicated facility is a much better draw than playing in Michigan Stadium. I've played lacrosse in empty college and pro football stadiums. It's cool once. Then it kind of sucks.
|40 weeks 1 day ago||DeLuca would be a great hire||
DeLuca would be a great hire pretty much anywhere.
But I would be shocked if Texas adds lacrosse any time soon. We all hear these "word on the street" rumors about new programs at big name schools all the time, and except for Michigan they have all been false for the past 35 years. A few years ago it was Florida State getting all the buzz. Suprise me Longhorns.
|40 weeks 1 day ago||Defense is short handed||
Their best defender this year has been Gembis, and I didn't see him yesterday. Injured? I hope not, because he has seemed to be the one guy who can consistently d up good attackmen, he's great at ground balls and he's been a big part of the clear. Keady, who was probably going to start this year, has been out all year from an injury in the fall. That's two starting close D out. Moore has also been out for awhile, and I got the impression he was pushing Brown for starting LSM duties. And of course they are playing the whole season without one of the best goalies in the country in Logan. That's four potential starters or at least heavy rotation guys at D who were out. For a young team that's not that deep, that's a pretty big hit - especially against Maryland.
It has been good to see guys like Zonino, Hatton, Walker and Sherman step up to fill some of those roles this year, but aside from Sherman they are still depending on a lot of young guys at positions where young guys usually don't play much.
Seeing the stream yesterday just made me wish men's and women's lacrosse were more similar - or at least used the same lines. You're seeing a field with lines for three sports (football, men's lacrosse and women's lacrosse). It just looks messy, and it has to be confusing for people just getting to know lacrosse.
|40 weeks 4 days ago||5 Year Plan||
What is your vision of where they should be in five years? Competing with Maryland, Hopkins, PSU and OSU for Big Ten championships? I have no doubt they will get there, but I think 5 years from the inception of the program is a bit ambitious to be at that level. At least it's ambitious to be at that level consistently. But I do think they will be a very good lacrosse team in a couple more years. Think in the 20-30 range on Laxpower.
Their results this year are a pretty good indication that they are on the right track. Winning what was essentially a tournament game, on the road, outdoors (I assume they have not practiced outdoors at home yet) yesterday was huge for a team this young. But keep in mind that they won that game in OT despite winning almost every faceoff. If Lott doesn't go off, do they have a shot?
Is the Maryland game on Tuesday in Oosterbaan or will the Big House be ready? If it's inside, I like Michigan's chances to make it fairly close. If it's outside, could be ugly.
|40 weeks 6 days ago||Good perspective. Highlights||
Good perspective. Highlights how quickly the game is growing.
LandryHD - it's on TV a fair amount. Mostly ESPNu, but also NBC Sports Network, CBS College Sports, and other random games on regional channels like Altitude and SNY. If you look you can find multiple televised games every weekend. I'm hopeful that BTN will get into it in a bigger way once the conference starts up next year.
This has been discussed on here a lot already, but I don't think the UM start is slower than expected. They started with the club roster and no transfers. No way that team was winning more than a game or two in their first year, and even year two was a stretch. Compare that to High Point where they have three recruiting classes and a number of impactful transfers. Most new programs have built that way. Michigan chose to do it differently. With two classes here now you're just starting to see how that pays off. Our boys have also played a much tougher schedule than any of the other new programs. After the Maryland game next week they will have played four (FOUR!) top 10 teams already. We should have high expectations, but it will take time.
The ECAC is not weak either, even though it's a lame duck conference. The other four schools are all still significantly ahead of Michigan. Bellarmine this weekend may be the best shot at a conference win this year. Ohio State was a quarterfinal team last year, and Fairfield is playing very well this season so far. Air Force is flirting with being a tournament team, and playing them out there at altitude is not an easy proposition. I'd be very pleasantly surprised if we pulled off a conference win this year.
|43 weeks 6 days ago||Brad Lott. 22 of 30 on||
22 of 30 on faceoffs. There's your difference maker. Didn't play in the first two games (didn't matter against Mercer, but they got killed by PSU on faceoffs). Real test for him is this weekend against Hopkins. Their faceoff guy is very good and their wings will be elite athletes.
|46 weeks 1 day ago||Just more evidence pointing||
Just more evidence pointing to how meaningles scrimmage results are to predicting success.
|46 weeks 1 day ago||mgoblue says they beat||
mgoblue says they beat Marquette 14-6 last year
|46 weeks 2 days ago||Depends. Two more years and||
Depends. Two more years and they will have four recruiting classes here. That's always a pretty good time to measure a program's progress. Four or five more years and they will have some elite recruiting classes here if all of the hype about their 2016 class is for real and they can follow it up with similar classes in 2017 and beyond. Facilties will be build by then too you would assume.
|46 weeks 3 days ago||They beat Marquette 18-9||
They beat Marquette 18-9 FWIW. Scrimmage scores never tell you that much.
|1 year 1 week ago||I don't disagree with your||
I don't disagree with your premise that Martin doesn't get enough credit for many of the projects he started, but I have to disagree about lacrosse. The one positive impact he had on the program was elevating it to "varsity club" level in 2001. Other than that, he pretty much ignored the sport as far as I could tell. Athletics had nothing to do with Hopkins and Army coming to scrimmage the club team in 2007. That's why the game was at Elbel instead of at an athletic department facility. That event was scheduled by JP (he and the Hopkins and Army coaches are close) and run by the Recreational Sports Department, which oversees club sports. I was one of the many alums in attendance (it was a great night that made me really proud to have been part of the program), and I remember that Bill Martin was supposed to make an appearance but never showed. The Army AD, who is now the Maryland AD, was there by the way. I had an opportunity to chat with him.
Until a few years ago the athletic department technically oversaw the rec sports department, but the two had virtually nothing to do with each other. Now rec sports is completely separate from athletics.
|1 year 1 week ago||I usually go to either this||
I usually go to either this event or the US Lacrosse convention, which is in January. I chose the USL convention this year. Had I known he was going to be there, I would have attended. Great for Michigan for him to get this kind of recognition, and his attendance in Baltimore at a lacrosse luncheon further demonstrates his commitment to the sport.
|1 year 11 weeks ago||Love Legg's goal. If you||
Love Legg's goal. If you want a ton more "lacrosse style goals" you can always actually watch lacrosse as well.
|1 year 12 weeks ago||We have 6 2016 commits||
We have 6 2016 commits according to this list.
|1 year 14 weeks ago||They would never challenge us||
They would never challenge us in court. They are chickens.
|1 year 15 weeks ago||Harmon (Mark) has had a long||
Harmon (Mark) has had a long friendship with UM lacrosse coach John Paul. I know from past alumni updates that he had hosted the club team on the set of NCIS a couple of times when they had traveled to play in LA. I can't find the article now, but I think I read in one of the stories that came out this weekend that JP put Harmon together with Brandon.
I have heard that there was some tension between the Harmon family and the athletic department, but from everything I saw and read this weekend it looks like Brandon and Harmon have patched all that up.
|1 year 15 weeks ago||Stupendous. Marvelous.||
Stupendous. Marvelous. Wondrous. Tremendous.
Where's the Rudy chicken?
|1 year 15 weeks ago||Well...I can think of||
Well...I can think of one.
Fortunately this gift probably green lights most, if not all, of the remaining facility projects.
|1 year 18 weeks ago||Lacrosse will get its own||
Lacrosse will get its own stadium. Probably out on South Campus, next to their new building with locker rooms and offices and such. Does not make sense to build them a building out there without a stadium and practice field. I think they don't have pictures yet because there's some approval hoops to jump through. I have been approached to donate to the cause, and it was made clear the stadium is coming and that it will be very nice.
The Elbel project was for the club team. They were going to build a lacrosse building next to Elbel and turf the fields. That project came to a halt as soon as the plans for varsity lacrosse happened.
|1 year 18 weeks ago||Hopkins didn't make the||
Hopkins didn't make the tourney this past season for the first time in 20-some odd years. Similar to UM hockey's run that ended this year. Of the teams in the new Big Ten lacrosse conference it can be argued that Maryland is the top outfit of the bunch recently, although Johnny Hop will definitely be a national title contender more years than they're not. Penn State and Ohio are also tournament teams that seem to be trending upwards. This is going to be a really tough conference, right behind the ACC.
|1 year 29 weeks ago||It was fall 2007. Purdue||
It was fall 2007. Purdue game.
But I agree with your premise. Petro is all about big time football. I think, aside from the very important Maryland factor, his first choice would be the Big Ten.
|1 year 29 weeks ago||What money? You are assuming||
What money? You are assuming that Hopkins makes money from their ESPN deal. I doubt it. Or if they do, I suspect it's negligible or maybe just some of the ad spots to sell if they can. Here's how the negotiation probably went.
ESPN: "We would like to televise all of your games on our networks, something that none of your competitors have."
Hopkins: "What's in it for us?"
ESPN: "We just told you."
|1 year 30 weeks ago||Philadelphia tomorrow for the||
Philadelphia tomorrow for the lacrosse Final Four. Otherwise, yard work, bbq and beer.
|1 year 35 weeks ago||No. Their win last year was||
No. Their win last year was against Mercer. They were a two year old team. Not brand new (but certainly not tradition rich).
Good win for the boys today. St. Joe's is far from a powerhouse, but they did have 5 wins this year. From the stats, looks like a very complete game. Logan looks like he had a shaky first half but really put the wall up in the second half.
|1 year 35 weeks ago||No way he's on the hot seat||
No way he's on the hot seat yet. First recruiting class are freshmen, so really this year's team is the start of the varsity era. Contrast that with the women's team, or some of the other new D1 men's teams, that had two years to recruit and get ready with only D1 players before playing. JP still has half a roster of club players. Good ones, no doubt, but most were not D1 caliber recruits and none of them were turning down offers from the big boys.
Recruiting is going very well. According to Laxpower and Inside Lacrosse they have 14 kids coming in this fall, including some studs like Mike Schlosser (Inside Lacrosse called him potentially the best midfielder in the country), Robbie Zonino, Ian King and Austin Shanks. The 2014 class looks to be pretty much done too, and they have 7 2015's committed. If you read their write ups on the sites that cover such stuff, a lot of them chose Michigan over some very good lacrosse schools.
They don't even have their own facilities yet. Look at the difference the PDC and Crisler made to basketball. Lacrosse has literally nothing of their own. When their facilities get built recruiting will take another step forward.
Brandon has to understand the situation. If they are around .500 in year 5 that's good realistically, assuming they keep playing a top 20 schedule. It took Notre Dame 10 years and new facilities to go from mediocre D1 program to final four. And that was a program that had already been D1 for 20 years before they finally started stepping it up.
It's really too bad the Detroit game was cancelled. It was probably going down to the wire. St Joe's is a good opportunity this Saturday, but UM only has two days to prepare while the Hawks had all week. At #1 Denver next Saturday will not be pretty.
|1 year 37 weeks ago||Was at the game today.||
Was at the game today. Second one I've gotten to see live this season. This team just doesn't have the talent or experience yet. Three or four of the freshmen will be good as they develop. Comparing them to Marquette isn't really fair. All D1 recruits on that team. Two years to recruit and get ready. More transfers. And still only two wins. It will continue to be painful for another season or so, then less and less so as recruiting fills in the roster and better players commit.
To be fair, they did a good job today at a lot of things. Faceoffs were good. Ground balls were better than they have been most of the season. That's a key stat they were getting killed at earlier this season and now are improving. The Delaware goalie played out of his mind. Too many UM turnovers too, which is a talent thing as much as anything.
OK. Done with lacrosse for today. Beat Cuse.
|1 year 40 weeks ago||No question they are||
No question they are improving. My thoughts from today...
Meter is their best dodger at attack. But there is nobody there who can carry the offense (ie. no Trey Burke point guard type player). Recruiting, recruiting, recruiting.
That first midfield line is really talented and athletic. And they are all freshmen. They are putting the offense on their shoulders right now. Joseph is tiny, but he's fast and tough. Jackson is the best player on the team. Hernandez is a beast. They get free all the time, but they don't shoot well. If these three guys get their shots going over the next couple of years, look out.
There is no depth at midfield. The second line did nothing. They need Paras back. He barely played again.
Great to see the faceoff unit getting so much better. Colgate is a very good faceoff team, and Lott and his wings did a great job.
Logan had an off day by his standards. I thought he let in a couple of softies. He's very, very good though. A great goalie is the way you start building a program. He will win some games for them down the line.
Defense is missing a few starters still. Johnson, Swaney and Orr didn't play that I could see. They slide A LOT which makes for a confusing defense to play, but it also forces the offense to make plays. They make a lot of mistakes. They had trouble with picks today as well.
No problem clearing today. There is no doubt they are playing with more confidence. Where they really struggle is ground balls. They just look like they get muscled off a lot of ground balls when it was a scrum. Maybe that's all the freshmen who need to get tougher and stronger.
The event itself was just kind of weird. Horrible sight lines in a baseball stadium. That and I don't like the Mets. Decent crowd (they announced 15,000 and change), but it was spread throughout the stadium and I think a lot of people left after the first game.
|1 year 40 weeks ago||Depends on what you mean by||
Depends on what you mean by competing. They are competing now. Their last four have been close. If you mean winning, they have a ways to go. Another two years maybe to start winning more than a couple? Even though this is Team Two, they only have one recruiting class in. Watching them today, you can see the difference between the D1 recruits and the returning club guys. They need the current freshmen to grow up, and they need two or three more classes for depth and more top end players.
Will probably be 5-10 years before they have a shot at becoming really good.
|1 year 40 weeks ago||Was at the game today. It||
Was at the game today. It was cold, but not brutal. I layered. And drank.
M&B - 7 guys on the defensive end happens a lot. If you go offsides, which can happen on clears (it shouldn't, but it does every once in awhile), you just stay and play defense. The flag is already down. There's no reason to go back onsides at that point. I've been playing and coaching a long time, and I see it a lot - especially at the high school level. At the D1 level offsides happens less, but if you go off when the other team has possession, that's what you do.
|1 year 40 weeks ago||Was at the game today. It||
Was at the game today. It was cold, but not brutal. I layered. And drank.
M&B - 7 guys on the defensive end happens a lot. If you go offsides, which can happen on clears (it shouldn't, but it does every once in awhile), you just stay and play defense. The flag is already down. There's no reason to go back onsides at that point. I've been playing and coaching a long time, and I see it a lot - especially at the high school level. At the D1 level offsides happens less, but if you go off when the other team has possession, that's what you do.
|1 year 41 weeks ago||I get to see the boys live||
I get to see the boys live this weekend! Can't wait. There's going to be a HUGE Michigan contingent there.
So many freshmen playing right now. That was expected. I too am encouraged by what we're seeing. Jackson, Hernandez, Logan, Kraus, Lott, Keady, Brown, Joseph, Moore, Kinek all seem to be getting a lot of time. All freshmen. Gaughan came in maybe the most hyped of all of them, and he hasn't even played yet because of injuries. Keep in mind that JP put this class together very late, pretty much after everyone else was done, and still found a lot of talent. The next couple of classes should get progressively better. Once we get facilities, look out. The wins are probably still a year or two away, and a great team is probably closer to 5-8 years away, but it's coming. By the time this freshman class are seniors, the program will look completely different.
|1 year 41 weeks ago||Citi Field game is going to||
Citi Field game is going to be pretty cool. Can't wait.
I've said it before, but I completely agree with WolvinLA2. Starting with the club roster set the development of the team back a couple of years compared to the more traditional way of doing it. I'm not saying it was wrong. The club players got a great opportunity they didn't anticipate when they came to Michigan, and their success was probably a big part of why the transition happened. How great for them that they got the chance to be Team One. But the difference between those guys and some of the freshmen in this class is clear. The starting midfield line are all freshmen, and that's the strength of the offense. That says a lot. More recruiting classes will bring in more D1 talent and provide more quality depth. Each class will be better than the last for the first few years too. The fact that they are competing at all right now is a positive.
Even the High Point game illustrated this fact. They have only D1 kids on that roster. Two classes worth, plus transfers. Marquette is the same. We think of them as newer, but both programs announced BEFORE Michigan.
Aside from general maturation and depth, this team needs better defensive players, especially D middies, an attackman or two who can dodge, a backup goalie, and some second line middies who can be a threat.
How many guys were out of the lineup yesterday? Seems like a lot. Injuries? Suspensions? Hopefully some of those guys will be back this week.
|1 year 42 weeks ago||High Point is playing their||
High Point is playing their first year right now. They are Michigan's next opponent, this Wednesday. They did beat Towson earlier this season, but Towson was not ranked. You are correct that both Marquette and High Point have two recruiting classes on campus and zero club players on the roster (I am a former club player, so I'm not ripping my fellow club guys - just pointing out the different approach). Both of those programs spent last year preparing for this year with their varsity rosters. So in some ways, they should be ahead of us right now.
You have to start any good team with goaltending, and it looks like we have a great one in Logan. Good to see from the stats that Lott did well facing off this game after getting crushed last week at Hopkins (Poppleton is dominating everyone). That's another key position to build around. Tons of freshmen getting experience right now. It's going to be ugly for awhile.
Of our 21 goals so far this year, 13 are from freshmen, 5 are from sophomores and the other 3 are from Paras who has been out for 2 games now with an injury that came early against Hopkins. JP is definitely giving the young guys the opportunity to get experience.
Thul for Army had 7 goals. If you haven't seen him, he's a beast. 6-3, 230 and can bring it. Glad he's going to be fighting for our side in a couple of years.
Coming into this season I thought we had a shot in 5 games. Bellarmine was one, but based on their play so far, including a really tight game with Loyola today, they are much better than anyone thought they'd be. That leaves High Point this Wednesday, Hobart on Saturday, and St. Joe's and Detroit later this season. Keep in mind that we are probably the underdog in every one of those games except maybe High Point.
|1 year 43 weeks ago||The team has had many HS All||
The team has had many HS All Americans. Even the club team got a few. Gaughan, not Graham, is their first ever Under Armour AA, which is a bigger deal. Gaughan has been hurt since the fall. Doubt he'll make an impact this year even if he gets healthy. Missed too much.
Very impressed with some of the freshmen. Just have to remember they are freshmen.
|1 year 45 weeks ago||From the stat sheet it looks||
From the stat sheet it looks like they got killed on faceoffs, ground balls and shots. Faceoffs would explain a lot of the ground ball and shots woes. Lott didn't play again. Have to wonder if he would have made a big enough difference to get the game closer.
Clearing is MUCH better than last year. Turnovers are way down. Special teams were good. 2 for 3 on EMO is great, and holding PSU to 1 for 6 is very good too. I think it's becoming obvious that Logan is a very good goalie.
Michigan had too many penalties.
Both teams had bad shooting days.
|1 year 45 weeks ago||Remember that their first||
Remember that their first four games last year, including Detroit, they had a goalie playing who couldn't make saves or clear. That's a tough skill set for a goalie. With Weiss gone if Logan goes down they will be in the same situation again this year. Assume that recruiting will take care of that depth in future years.
I think you may be skewed a bit, but I love the optimism. I played at Michigan, so nobody on here wants them to win more than I do. But in OSU I saw a team that was vastly more skilled. I do agree Bellarmine was winnable. It seemed like every close game they had a breakdown at some point for a few minutes that killed them. That's experience, and that's why I'm still a little pessimistic about this year. By next year or late this season they should be much better at handling runs by the other team.
|1 year 45 weeks ago||Thanks for this. Tim's blog||
Thanks for this. Tim's blog over at greatlaxstate is really good for us UM lacrosse junkies, but I miss his coverage here at the homeship. The more the better.
I thought the team overachieved last year. They had no business being close to some of the teams they hung with, and some of those games weren't actually as close as the final score indicated. The only games where they really had a shot in the fourth quarter were Mercer (win), Jacksonville (OT loss), and Rutgers (loss). I don't expect this season to be that much better. They should be closer. Maybe more 1 and 2 goal losses instead of 3 and 4 goal losses. Maybe 1 or 2 more wins. This is still a team with half a club roster and half freshman who were recruited late.
|1 year 46 weeks ago||JP said in one of his alumni||
JP said in one of his alumni emails that Weiss left the team but did not transfer, so I assume he either didn't want to be a backup or wasn't cut out for D1 lacrosse. From the stats yesterday (16 saves and 6 goals against is phenomenal), it looks like they have a very good starter in Logan. But time will tell. I think it's safe to say that if Logan is out for any reason they are in trouble. WolvinLA2 is right that they have very good goalies committed in each of the next three classes (Zonino in 13, Heidt in 14 and Garn in 15), so if they can get through this year healthy they will be in much better shape.
Lott is on the roster. Have to assume he was either hurt or suspended. Hopefully he's back next week for the opener. I can't imagine a D3 transfer (Wylie) or a kid who's never taken faceoffs before (Eisenreich) would beat the #1 faceoff recruit in the nation for the spot. Scratch that...I can imagine it, but it's unlikely.
Eisenreich did win 10 of 18. That's pretty good. Wylie struggled.
|1 year 46 weeks ago||From a Hopkins perspective I||
From a Hopkins perspective I see two major sticking points. 1. Having to alter a schedule that includes traditional rivals on traditional dates, many of which have been in place for decades (or over 100 years in a couple of cases). 2. ESPN deal. Do they make money from this deal? If not, does the B1G offer include $$$ that would make a huge impact on a small D3 athletic department? Does BTN allow them to keep an ESPN deal? Does BTN give them a similar deal (can't see the other B1G schools signing off on that plan)?
|1 year 48 weeks ago||While my background is||
While my background is lacrosse and I'm as in to football and basketball as the next red-blooded American, I'm also a sports fan who is just as likely to stop channel surfing at a volleyball game or a tennis match as anything else, especially if there's a block M on one team's jerseys. There's a natural spring sport rivalry between lacrosse and baseball, but I happen to love baseball. I went to a lot of games at Fisher when I was a student. It was often a lonely endeavor, but I loved the feel of them on a warm, sunny afternoon. The cheesy baseball muzak. The chatter. The clang of aluminum on ball. I miss that. I would love to see the baseball program get back to the glory days of the 80s when Sabo, Larkin and Morris were preparing for their MLB careers by dominating the rest of the Big Ten. I don't know if that kind of success is possible for a northern team again, but Bakich seems to be the right fit to get the ship pointed on that heading.
Both baseball and lacrosse have third or fourth major sport standing on other campuses. I think either or both could reach that level of following and support at Michigan. While I personally think lacrosse is more likely to eventually capture the Michigan fan base due to national trends in growth, TV coverage and the UM demographic, I'm pulling for both. If you're in Ann Arbor, go to a baseball game and see if you can find the same feeling I did.
|2 years 1 week ago||Obviously this is of great||
Obviously this is of great interest to me as well, and it's not surprising that it was an important issue for Maryland. We all hear the Virginia and UNC rumors. Either one of those schools would get the B16 to the required 6 to start sponsoring men's lacrosse. The other rumor that I keep hearing is that Johns Hopkins is in play as a potential associate member, just for lacrosse. That would be unprecedented for the Big Ten obviously, but very intriguing for the lacrosse world.
|2 years 3 weeks ago||To be fair, football may||
To be fair, football may never get a guy like him again either. Class of his own at the time. Lacrosse does get more guys these days that decline D1 football opportunities to play, and there are even a few former college lacrosse players in the NFL. But you're right that football and basketball overwhelmingly monopolize the best athletes, and the attention and potential for big payouts at the end are the driver for that.
I hadn't thought of the fact that there's no developmental league pulling away the top lacrosse players - like minor league baseball, hockey, soccer and even international olympic sports to some extent (Phelps didn't swim for Michigan while there, for example). Good point. The best lacrosse athletes who stick with the sport in college are in fact the best lacrosse players out there. Even if college lacrosse gets another Jim Brown, I don't think it will make a huge difference. Only a popular professional league will pull the sport up into the major sport category. The MLL and NLL both have a long, long way to go.
Ultimately UM will be getting some of the best players, and the addition of Maryland and the eventual formation of B1G lacrosse will help.
|2 years 3 weeks ago||For awhile. But Maryland's||
For awhile. But Maryland's recruiting will take a bit of hit from this (see recent Starsia quotes) and Michigan's will keep getting better, especially once facilities are done.
|2 years 3 weeks ago||I would tend to agree with||
I would tend to agree with you. The only difference here is that lacrosse already is a major-ish sport at some schools. I would equate it to the UM hockey program in many ways at schools like Virginia, Maryland, Syracuse, etc. At many of the smaller schools that sponsor D1 lacrosse, it is THE premier sport (Hopkins, Loyola, Denver along with hockey, etc.) I don't know if another sport really has that except for maybe baseball at some southern schools? and hockey obviously.
The growth spurt over the last decade or so is similar to the soccer boom in the 80s. The major differences? It's an American sport. It already had a very strong foothold as a major sport on the east coast. It's more watchable than soccer (ask any soccer/lacrosse parent).
I don't think any sane lacrosse enthusiast expects the sport to become the next football. But I do think it's reasonable that the sport could reach a hockey level of exposure and interest over the next 20 years, with a more national footprint since it doesn't require ice. Time will tell.
|2 years 5 weeks ago||The B1G (B14?), eventually||
The B1G (B14?), eventually B16, won't start sponsoring a sport until there are six teams. it took PSU to add hockey to make that happen. Until then Big Ten lacrosse is in a similar situation. Will be interesting to see if the five conference programs band together now or stay in other auto-bid conferences until a sixth school adds the sport or further expansion gets the number up. Women's lacrosse will have six now (Northwestern has women's, but not men's), so they will be good to go.
Let's go Sparty. Get your program going again so we can get this thing started.
As a lacrosse fan, I love this. It adds one great program and another decent one, both in recruiting and alumni hotbeds.
As a football fan, I hate this. But I still want us playing Ohio State every year to go to the Rose Bowl and play the Pac 10 winner. I am determined to remember the good old days as the good old days.
|2 years 6 weeks ago||Stadium games||
The Army game is in Sun Life Stadium. The Colgate game is at Citi Field. Two reasons those games are happening in those stadiums and their names are Ross and Wilpon. I was at the Rutgers game last year, and our fans outnumbered and outcheered the home team by a pretty wide margin. Should be a great UM crowd on Long Island.
I also don't expect the team to be significantly better yet. Am hearing about a lot more talent on offense (hello, Kyle Jackson), but will still struggle defensively and much of the talent is very young. Also, the new rules do not favor less talented teams. You can't slow it down any more, and Michigan's famous 10-man ride will be harder to get into with the quick restarts. Faceoffs should be a little better, and goalie will probably be about the same with Logan but an injury there puts them right back where they were when Weiss was out last year...screwed. They need experience and depth, and that will take some time to build.
|2 years 8 weeks ago||old news||
...and I'd say the program is in pretty good hands now.
|2 years 8 weeks ago||lacrosse facilities||
I believe the money listed for lacrosse facilities is just for their locker rooms, offices, meeting rooms, etc. No way you build all those for 80+ athletes (combined between the two teams) PLUS a stadium for $12M. A stadium will cost much more. The picture they show on the website is of the soccer stadium. Of course they could play in the soccer stadium eventually, but lacrosse would tear up the grass pretty badly. If that was the plan you'd think they would already be out there instead of in the football stadium. I've heard talk of an indoor lacrosse stadium eventually. If that's the case you're talking big money, more in line with what they are doing for track. This would make sense since lacrosse season starts in February, and you have to believe they want to draw well if they are going to compete with the ACC.
|2 years 11 weeks ago||Wolv, I don't know how much||
I don't know how much money you think is in lacrosse coverage, but adding some regular season games and a tournament on BTN isn't going to increase revenue. What do you think ad spots go for on lacrosse games? My guess is the BTN has advertising contracts that cover a lot of their non-revenue sport programming, and those contracts are for peanuts compared to their football and basketball coverage. Adding a few lacrosse games probably isn't the money tree you are implying it is.
Adding sports isn't easy. I would imagine that most Big Ten schools are focused on finding money to stay with what Michigan has done with their major sport facilities. Then they need to find money to keep up with what Michigan is about to do with all of their non-revenue sport facilities. Then maybe they can think about finding money to add men's and women's sport budgets, scholarships, coaches, support staff and facilities.
Or they could do it how Richmond is doing it I suppose...and cut other sports to make way for lacrosse.
|2 years 11 weeks ago||Don't hold your breath for||
Don't hold your breath for B1G lax unless it happens through expansion. I doubt any of the current schools that don't have men's lacrosse are close to adding.
Wahoo is right. The ECAC is a transient conference. Always has been. A new southern conference, if it happens, could pull away Bellarmine. Hobart and Fairfield could find better geographical fits. Michigan and Ohio State could pull out to join Penn State in a conference of bigger football names if other BCS schools add the sport. I think adding Detroit would be a temporary fix at best. Michigan needs a conference full of programs that have similar goals (championships) and the support to get there. Without Loyola, the ECAC only gives them OSU and Denver (and possibly Fairfield) in that category.
Sucks to lose Loyola, but Michigan will be able to schedule strong RPI opponents in out of conference games because of the name.
|2 years 19 weeks ago||I disagree Buck||
I disagree Buck (respectfully). Packing it in is what most D1 defenses are already doing. No pressure on ball, late slides, even a lot of pure zone. It's been the trend the last couple of years, and it has led to a slow down in play as much as the other hot topics have (head size, pocket depth, coaching strategy), although they are definitely all related. Without a two point shot like the MLL has, what's the benefit to extending your defense? Since it's so hard to take the ball away these days, you just expose your defense by spreading them out. There hasn't been a great takeaway defenseman in the game in years.
I think this rule will result in teams packing it in even more. Then once the stall call is made they either keep it tight or they junk it up with pressure or a shut off or something to disrupt an offense that is now in a hurry. You'll see more rushed, bad shots. Maybe this is a good thing as it could create a lot more transition, but I don't see this creating better settled offense.
It's obvious that lacrosse is really struggling right now with how to maintain its self-proclaimed identity of "fastest sport on two feet." They keep throwing a bunch of new rules out there to see if any of them have the desired effect. I wish they would just settle on the major tweaks and leave it alone.
|2 years 20 weeks ago||Already doing it. They have||
Already doing it. They have commits from St. Paul's and McDonogh in Baltimore and Georgetown Prep in DC. Uphill battle with those kids though. Most of them grow up dreaming of playing at Hopkins or in the ACC.
|2 years 20 weeks ago||Good eye||
...but Michigan actually does have one 2015 commit already. Gunner Garn a goalie out of California. I agree that a lot of these top kids having Michigan on their "strongly considered" list is a good sign. The program is barely a year old with no dedicated facilities, going against powerhouse programs over a hundred years old often with great lacrosse facilities and often at similar academic levels (Ivy League, UVA, Hopkins, UNC, Duke, ND, etc). Not to mention that many of those schools are physically embedded in the middle of most of the best lacrosse players, while Michigan is in the lacrosse outback. It's still going to take awhile, but they are obviously getting interest from a lot of the right kids. Matter of time.
Side note...no sport seems to get more negative chirping on here than lacrosse. Why? Lacrosse has a big, rapidly expanding fan base, and most people seem to find it entertaining to watch once they are introduced to it. So it makes sense that it is covered occasionally on mgoblog and espn and other media sources that used to ignore it. I understand the stereotype that it's played by entitled, rich, prep school kids, but as the sport has grown it has certainly come a long way toward leaving that behind. Where I'm from it's a public school sport that is made up of athletes who generally play football in the spring and maybe basketball or hockey in the winter.
|2 years 24 weeks ago||Not a problem. I'm usually||
Not a problem. I'm usually busy with something else on Saturdays in October. And September and November too, for that matter.
|2 years 26 weeks ago||The comments below the AA.com||
The comments below the AA.com article are hilarious. Ann Arbor at its best. "Use the money to lower tuition!" "Give it to the poor!"
Not mentioned in the article is a lacrosse stadium of sort, which will also be necessary. And probably not cheap.
|2 years 27 weeks ago||Eating ribs always makes||
Eating ribs always makes sense.
|2 years 28 weeks ago||Lacrosse is very different||
Lacrosse is very different from region to region. Baltimore is one of the hotbeds (northern suburbs not the city) and it definitely started there as a blue blood sport. The other two traditional hotbeds were always Long Island and Upstate NY. On LI it's always been a mix of private schools and very blue collar public school communities. Jim Brown went to Manhasset HS, a public school, and excelled at lacrosse which he always called his favorite sport. The sports roots are Native American, and it's still an integral part of a lot of Indian culture, especially in Upstate NY. Lacrosse is also Canada's national sport. Obviously it's not as big as hockey there, but it's a very important part of Canadian sports culture, especially in Ontario and British Columbia. Wayne Gretzky was a great lacrosse player, as were many other Canadian NHL stars.
As the sport has exploded in the past decade across the rest of the country, it's definitely in far, far more public schools than private. It's not in the inner cities yet (cost and field space) and its just starting to spread to more rural communities. That will take time. It still has a reputation as an elitist prep school sport. For those of us who played, that's unfortunate and really not true anymore. Theres still some of that, but it's not anywhere near the norm.
I started playing as a kid in NJ when I gave it a try and quickly was hooked. I switched from baseball, which is happening a lot nowadays all over the country. I was drawn to the constant action, the fun and creative aspect of using a stick and definitely the physicality. I still love baseball by the way, but I totally relate to why kids are so easily hooked when they try lacrosse.
I get why some people who try watching don't like it at first. It's new to them They don't understand all the nuances since they didn't grow up with it. They may be turned off by its reputation as a snob sport. That's ok. It's growing fast for a reason. It really is a great sport to both play and watch, and as it continues its growth it has a very real chance in 10-20 yrs of becoming a major college sport. Especially if the pro leagues ever become profitable.
|2 years 32 weeks ago||Like all recruit news, it||
Like all recruit news, it depends on the source you go to for rankings. Next year's class has a few guys who are highly ranked by ESPN Rise. #15 Brad Lott (who is also the #1 ranked faceoff guy, which should help Michigan a ton), #27 Brendan Gaughan (big attackman from La Costa Canyon who played football with Erik Magnuson). Also guys like Paxton Moore and Graham Conlan who they rated highly in their position rankings (both top 25). The jewel of the class may be Kyle Jackson from Toronto. Inside Lacrosse had him as the #2 Canadian in next year's class. That's big.
Gotta remember that these guys will all be freshmen next year though. It will still take some time.
|2 years 33 weeks ago||I don't think any wins can be||
I don't think any wins can be assumed yet for next year. They will have their first D1 recruiting class playing, but half the team will be freshmen. And it's not like this is a top 20 class either. They were way too late to the recruiting game to put together a highly regarded class. Team 3 will be much better positioned to win games, and it's going to be team 5 or 6 before the ECAC tournament should be a realistic expectation rather than a hope.
|2 years 34 weeks ago||There were more UM fans than||
There were more UM fans than home team fans at both the Harvard and Rutgers games this year. I was at the RU game. Great tailgate atmosphere. Quite a few M flags flying in the lot. Attendance was about 2500, so a lot of M fans made it out. That's a great M alumni area though. Not sure how many alums even live around Chapel Hill. Hopefully a good group from Virginia and DC will drive down.
Twitter says the game will be live on ESPN 3 for those who can get that channel and can't get there.
|2 years 35 weeks ago||Also ditto||
Finally got to see Team One play live! Echo the two comments above. Great tailgate scene today, and the rain held off for the whole game. M crowd completely out-cheered the home team crowd. Good game too. This team plays really hard. They just don't have all the pieces yet. They will build up the talent over the next few years. I'm very proud of them and to be an alum of the club team that has morphed into the new varsity team.
Weiss looked great aside from a few clearing mistakes. He is special. Will be interesting to see if he has competition for the starting spot as D1 recruits arrive. Swaney had an incredible behind the back goal. Long sticks don't score often, and when they do it usually doesn't look like his did. Could have been a sportscenter top 10 play if this had been a tv game. Face offs have been a struggle most of the year. Brad Lott coming next year should help, and they'll have more athletes for the wings.
|2 years 39 weeks ago||There is much less cheating||
There is much less cheating in faceoffs now than there was a few years ago. Referees are now more keen to the tricks faceoff guys use, and they are also quicker to call procedure penalties when they see it. Plus NCAA rules changed last year to make cheat moves like grabbing the ball an actual time-serving penalty. Faceoff guys don't do it much anymore since they know the result is a man-down when it used to just be possession.
The best faceoff specialists (FOGOs as nickoko aptly described) are highly skilled. It's not enough to just be quick and scrappy. They focus on facing off throughout their high school careers and are recruited specifically for that role. You can't just make a scrappy guy a good faceoff specialist in a year. Lott will help Michigan a lot (did that on purpose) next year. The D1 recruits they have coming in will also help on the wings as the team gets more athletic.
This team has a lot more problems than just faceoffs right now, but you're right...not a lot they can do if they can't get the ball.
Expect to see some improvement next year, but their best players will be freshmen. It's going to take a few years to get really good. It will happen though.
|2 years 40 weeks ago||Have to assume Weiss was||
Have to assume Weiss was injured (or reinjured?). No way they pull him if they are in a close game. If he's out for any length of time again, then I agree that they are going to have a really tough time being competitive the rest of the way this year. If he's back soon then they can still compete against MSM, Rutgers and possibly Ohio.
Bryant doesn't show up in the stats at all. Have to assume he was injured or suspended. He's a big part of their offense.
|2 years 40 weeks ago||M&BW, How much does style||
How much does style of play and tactics fit into your system? I know you can't mathematically calculate for playing a slower or faster pace or a pressure defense or a 10-man ride. I guess I'm asking if you think the way Michigan is playing is also having a major effect on the numbers.
Michigan has cleared very well in a couple of games this year. Many D1 teams barely ride at all, so I have to imagine that's a factor. When the opponent rides, they struggle. When they don't, they clear it well.
Very interesting that they are 4th in the country in riding. The competition is definitely a factor (hello Mercer), but I've seen a lot of comments that a 10-man wouldn't work at this level, and it seems to be, even using inferior athletes. It's definitely not working like it did as a club team, when they held even the best opponents to around 50%, which is unheard of, but being in the top 5 of any positive category right now is unexpected. The question is, have opponents broken the ride and scored easily on it very many times this year? It's going to happen at least a handful of times, but has it happened regularly? Having only seen the two streamed games, I don't know.
|2 years 40 weeks ago||M lacrosse coach John Paul||
M lacrosse coach John Paul tweeted that assistant coach Ken Broschart's house was hit by the tornado but that he and his family are ok.
|2 years 41 weeks ago||If you throw out the Mercer||
If you throw out the Mercer game (they are not good), their faceoff stats weren't a whole lot different so far this year. Compared to some of their games, especially against those teams' top faceoff guys, this was an improvement. This was probably an attempt to get some ground ball faceoff wins and also to make sure they had their defensive personnel on the field once Loyola got it. Faceoffs is not a part of the game they are going to be good at this season.
It would be really nice to have Brekan Kohlitz or David Reinhard back on the roster right now. Help comes next year with Brad Lott. ESPN has him as the #1 faceoff recruit in the country. That's another way this team will make a big jump as D1 recruits start filling out the roster.
|2 years 42 weeks ago||I'm not sold on Weiss yet.||
I'm not sold on Weiss yet. He has to be a HUGE upgrade from what they've had so far this season. That much is obvious. But they will have great goalies coming in their next few recruiting classes who might be a lot better. The Zonino kid in the 2013 class is legit.
I see a defense that is sliding early to everything. That's going to leave guys open inside sometimes, but it's also going to disrupt offensive flow and make it harder to find those guys.
|2 years 42 weeks ago||Boxscore is up at mgoblue.||
Boxscore is up at mgoblue. No game story yet. A few notable stats...
UM cleared the ball really well. 21 for 22. That's a good sign considering it was a struggle last weekend.
UM had more ground balls than Jax. For all you lacrosse neophytes, that's the equivalent of rebounds. That's a huge step for them to win that battle against an established D1 squad. They had been getting killed there previously.
15 saves for Weiss. I think it's safe to say they really missed him in the first four games. Does he make a difference against Denver (definitely not) or Penn State (probably not)? Does he make the Detroit game a close one down the stretch (probably) and maybe stop the Air Force run (maybe)?
This is an encouraging step. Jacksonville worked a pretty good Navy team a couple of weeks ago and hung close with the same Towson team that destroyed UM in the fall. I honestly didn't expect them to be able to hang with Jacksonville for an entire game today.
Man up still has to get going. 0 fer again today.
|2 years 43 weeks ago||Thanks. Not disappointed in||
Thanks. Not disappointed in you. Just here to help. Thanks for doing this. I think it's a great idea.
|2 years 43 weeks ago||Thanks. But you added||
Thanks. But you added lacrosse to the women's list and not the men's. (Sorry, to be a pain in the ass.) The men's team is competing now. The women start in two years.
|2 years 43 weeks ago||Probably a combination.||
Probably a combination. Assists can also come from outside shots that came off a pass. Hard to tell without seeing them play, and I haven't.
Would make sense that the defense is struggling. They have some young guys, and some guys playing in completely new positions who are playing.
They could always pack it into a tight zone and take away assist opportunities. I am going to assume that they aren't playing really aggressively, but if their goalie isn't very good a zone would not be the answer.
|2 years 43 weeks ago||I wonder if the defense||
I wonder if the defense really stunk today. How much of this falls on the goalie? Weiss, who was supposed to be the starter this year, hasn't played yet. He's hurt right? I thought he came in with some promising credentials.
Westerhold, who was a freshman football player at Kenyon (D3 ) last year (does not show up on their lacrosse roster), has started all four games and has a .366 save percentage so far. That's not good. Some of that could be defensive breakdowns that allow shots from the crease, but if they are starting a guy who couldn't make a middle of the pack D3 roster last year, it helps explain some things. Plus Westerhold is playing with a broken thumb and a big cast. There's a whole thread discussing it on Inside Lacrosse. http://forums.insidelacrosse.com/showthread.php?t=231040
I'm not holding out much hope that they'll hang with Jacksonville. That team put a beat-down on Navy a couple weeks ago. Mercer is a good opportunity, but nothing is a given this year. Deep breaths. Patience.
|2 years 43 weeks ago||weas, Laxpower is good for||
Laxpower is good for more recent commitiments, but doesn't have any details and doesn't track younger commits.
You left out the best Michigan lacrosse recruiting site out there! Greatlaxstate which is run by Mgoblog's very own former blogger extraordinaire, Tim. He was in Denver for the games and was posting live updates and has stories up.
Also, for lacrosse recruiting news check out sites like...
Those sites all track recruits and high school lacrosse, and a couple of them do the top recruit lists we're all accostomed to for the major sports.
Michigan is doing really well in recruiting so far, as expected. They will get competitive as their talent catches up to the teams they are playing now.
|2 years 43 weeks ago||Rome wasn't built in a day||
Rome wasn't built in a day right? As everyone keeps saying, this is going to take a few years as D1 recruits come in and mature. Hard to say if this was encouraging or not because the gap right now between these teams is huge. Air Force game today may be more telling.
|2 years 43 weeks ago||Lacrosse? All zeroes for||
Lacrosse? All zeroes for now, but it is now a varsity sport.
|2 years 43 weeks ago||Did this really turn into a||
Did this really turn into a blame Rich Rod vs. not blame Rich Rod discussion? It's MOCK ROCK! Lighten up. They ripped lacrosse in the skit. I played lacrosse. I thought it was funny.
|2 years 44 weeks ago||I tend to agree with Wahoo.||
I tend to agree with Wahoo. No shot clock unless they come up with a way to ensure that teams won't just pack into a zone and force outside shots. He's absolutely right that the difference between lacrosse and basketball is the fact that you have to shoot through the defense, AND a goalie. A shot clock would force more bad shots than anything else.
I was disappointed in Denver today. They are obviously very talented on offense. They are average on defense. Regardless, they did not really do anything to force the pace when Ohio started stalling. I have a feeling they'll be contenders in May, but they are going to see this strategy a lot this year. You can't blame Ohio for doing what the rules allow to win. It's not like they did anything cheap. They did a great job getting a lead, then held it.
Michigan is going to have to slow it down in every game this year if they want to have any chance to win a game or two. New fans out there need to be patient. Recruiting will change this team dramatically.
Jacksonville is in their third year, but unlike Michigan they had a full year to recruit before they started D1 play. In that sense it's like they are in their fourth year compared to us. They also took a lot of transfers. I don't see Michigan building it that way.
|2 years 44 weeks ago||Dream a little bigger||
Dream a little bigger nickoko. How about envisioning yourself oneday sitting in a sold Michigan Stadium watching the Maize and Blue in a lacrosse Final Four. A maize out would be nice for that one too.
|2 years 45 weeks ago||I am so excited for this||
I am so excited for this weekend. Lacrosse is playing all of their home games except one in the stadium this year, but obviously the Ohio State game, especially in conjuction with the spring game, has had lacrosse alumni like yours truly buzzing for months.
|2 years 45 weeks ago||I heard that they have had a||
I heard that they have had a rash of broken thumbs amongst the goalies, which is not uncommon. But JP has also suspended and kicked off some very good players because they are focused on culture. Weiss could have been out for either reason.
Recruiting has been going very well. They aren't beating Virginia and Hopkins for a lot of recruits yet, but they are landing some really good kids. I guess from reports and the general trend these days that they are done or almost done with current juniors and focused now on sophomores.
Thanks for doing this Wahoo!
|2 years 45 weeks ago||We'll see. I have my||
We'll see. I have my suspicions that they won't be playing each other for that long. SOS is very important in D1 lacrosse. Once the Michigan program is established, what do they gain by playing UDM? (I'm talking a few years from now obviously.) Would local fans, aside from UDM fans, rather see Michigan play Detroit or bring in a big-name team like Hopkins or Virginia? (Teams UDM will never get to come to Michigan.) Does the average Michigan fan getting to know lacrosse care about them playing Detroit or would they rather see out-of-conference games against Penn State and Notre Dame, schools they recognize as peers? I could be wrong, but I think I know the answers.
|2 years 45 weeks ago||In the story on Fox last week||
In the story on Fox last week one of the Detroit players called Michigan "little brother." In his case his actual little brother plays for Michigan (Brad and Jeff Janer), and since the UM program is in it's first year and UDM is four years old, it's kind of accurate. However, all similarities to the UM - Sparty relationship end pretty quickly. In this case little brother is going to grow up to be a lot bigger and stronger than big brother in a few years. I don't know if there was any bad blood Sunday, but if there was I have a feeling the Michigan coaches will remember.
|2 years 45 weeks ago||I can. It is their main||
I can. It is their main ride. They are known for it. Watch the tape again. They didn't use it as much against Virgina, but they used it. They had success with it against some very good D1 teams last year, and I'd be shocked if they don't use it again this year.
A couple of articles referencing it:
note: did Coach Fedorjaka piss off a few coaches with his comments in that one or what?
See quote in third paragraph "entire second half"
|2 years 45 weeks ago||I wish I could have been||
I wish I could have been there. Just followed on twitter. Reading this thread actually has me encouraged. I had no idea what to expect. I hoped this team could hang with Detroit, but I had a feeling this was going to be a very rude welcome to D1 - especially with the way Detroit was approaching this game as the "Rivalry to end all rivalries." It proves that the club roster they are playing with is at least D1 capable.
New fans to this team do need to understand that it's going to be a process. The way Michigan is doing this is unique. Most new D1 teams have some build-up time to recruit. The new women's team at Michigan, for example, is not playing a game until the 2014 season. Their coaches have two full years to build a D1 roster. The men are going in with zero D1 recruits. Despite that, they can hang with an established low-level D1 team. In most games this year they will take a beating. I hope Michigan fans will support them with the understanding that they can build something special over time. Like Weasel I think they have the right coach and the right plan to do that.
As a former player on the club team, I can't tell you how much I envy the guys on this team. What an incredible opportunity to represent Michigan as Team One.
|2 years 45 weeks ago||Bucknell runs a 10 man all||
Bucknell runs a 10 man all the time. Almost beat Virginia last year (should have beaten them) in the quarters. It can work at the D1 level. Bucknell proves it. I agree that it probably wouldn't be smart for Michigan to use it as much for now though with the athletic disadvantage they'll have this season.
|2 years 45 weeks ago||Good one yesterday too at||
Good one yesterday too at Wolverine Nation for those with ESPN insider memberships.
|2 years 45 weeks ago||Can't wait to see this||
Can't wait to see this movie.
The lacrosse team did some preseason training with a couple of SEALs last month. Mgoblue did a feature on it: http://www.mgoblue.com/allaccess/?media=293815
|2 years 46 weeks ago||Michigan won't be in||
Michigan won't be in recruiting battles with Detroit very often. If they find that they are, the program will be in trouble. They aren't going to be building the program with in-state players. If you look at the commitments they have gotten already, they are in battles with the Ivy's, Notre Dame, Lehigh, Bucknell, Ohio State and Penn State and have started breaking in to battling it out with the big boys (Hopkins, Duke, UNC, UVA). They seem to be pretty much done with their junior class recruiting. I don't see any evidence that Detroit has a single junior commitment yet.
|2 years 46 weeks ago||Well...||
some teams that put on the maize and blue may disagree. Hockey for example (until next year). Their goal is the CCHA. Lacrosse plays in the ECAC, not the Big Ten. I think Water Polo is in another conference.
Can't disagree with his premise though. Win your conference first.
|2 years 46 weeks ago||Reebok is owned by adidas.||
Reebok is owned by adidas. Probably because there's no such thing as adidas hockey, and the company wants to promote their hockey line, which is all Reebok branded.
edit: I am obviously way too slow at typing.
|2 years 48 weeks ago||I overstated. Of course they||
I overstated. Of course they are going to promote basketball more heavily. But take a gander at the tickets, for example:
"The Ultimate Rivalry Begins..." Do you think Michigan is thinking of the game this way? I wonder if Detroit is even on their schedule in a few years.
|2 years 48 weeks ago||Detroit Mercy is promoting||
Detroit Mercy is promoting this one as if it's the game of the century and the rivalry to end all rivalries. Ugh.
|2 years 49 weeks ago||Blaze - lacrosse has an 'e'||
Blaze - lacrosse has an 'e' on the end of it. You're right though. He seems to be a pretty decent lacrosse player, although 1st-Team All-State in Michigan isn't exactly the same as being 1st-Team All-State in Maryland or New York. Kinda the opposite of football in that regard.
He's wearing a lacrosse shirt in that headshot, so it may have been taken during the spring. Typically guys who play football and lacrosse bulk up in the fall and trim down a bit in the spring. Or maybe he's just lanky.
|2 years 50 weeks ago||Birth||
That is all.
|2 years 51 weeks ago||He also glosses over the||
He also glosses over the Title IX implications, which would derail his plan immediately. At the end of the article he simply states that Title IX would "probably" be a sticking point (of course it would) and leaves it to other people to figure out that major roadblock. So in other words, "Here's my great plan. It won't work because of this, but hopefully somebody will figure that part out for me."
|2 years 51 weeks ago||Yes. Regular season. I||
Yes. Regular season. I think the record is around 30,000. Set by Ohio in the Horseshoe a couple of years ago.
The Final Four record is 48.970. Set in 2008 in Gillette Stadium in Foxboro.
|2 years 51 weeks ago||I remember JP saying that||
I remember JP saying that Yealy was a HS All-American as a ball-carrying attackman. He switched to a crease role in college, where he obviously fit a need and excelled. He's a great athlete with size and good hands. There's no reason he can't be successful in a more diverse role. Of course, he won't be scoring 80 goals again. But as mlax27 says, he should be the go-to guy for this season. He'll need a lot of help from other guys though.
|2 years 51 weeks ago||Brooks - Thank you for the||
Brooks - Thank you for the coverage. Since Tim left there's been a bit of a void on lacrosse coverage here (although he's doing a GREAT job on greatlaxstate). I think lacrosse has the potential to be a big-time sport at Michigan, and exposure to new fans at the #1 blog in the country (yes, that's pandering) is helpful to spreading the word and getting people to check it out.
Most lacrosse people expect big things out of this team after they've had a few years to get facilities built and the roster loaded up with D1 caliber athletes. The first couple of years will be difficult, but from every indication so far the future could be very bright.
Every alum I know is planning to come back for the Ohio State game on April 14. The athletic department has already stated that they want to set a new NCAA attendance record that day. That would be a pretty major accomplishment for the first year.
|2 years 51 weeks ago||This brings back memories of||
This brings back memories of early morning stadium runs with the lacrosse team. They were grueling and early, but there was something very special about sharing the stadium with just your teammates as the sun came up.
|3 years 2 days ago||Yup. That was for the club||
Yup. That was for the club team. I think that might have been an older story that was rerun on whatever site that is. Plans have changed. Indoor stadium is the word now. Near soccer.
|3 years 2 days ago||I don't think the lacrosse||
I don't think the lacrosse stadium is going to be at Elbel. That was the plan a few years ago when the club team was going to build their own PDC next to Elbel, but all that has changed since DB took over and the club became the varsity. I'm hearing the plan now is for lacrosse to build an indoor stadium (yes, an indoor stadium), probably down State Street near soccer? For now they are playing in the football stadium and Oosterbaan, but neither of those are the best situation for them (Big House is too big and Oosterbaan sucks). I suppose they could use the soccer stadium as well, but this indoor stadium idea is intriguing.
I can't see Yost ever going away unless it literally falls apart, which actually started happening a couple years ago when parts of the outside wall fell off. If there is any way to keep Yost, it must be preserved. The money they are spending on it now kind of indicates that's the plan.
|3 years 3 weeks ago||Win - win for football and||
Win - win for football and lacrosse. To my knowledge the spring game has never come close to filling the Big House right? So if the lacrosse game brings a few thousand more fans, that's a bonus for football that day. I know they've had as many as 5,000 at club team games against State, so 10,000 for a varsity game against Ohio is not out of the question. Of course, if all of the people there to see the spring game also watch the lacrosse game, they'll have a good shot at setting a record.
So do they play Ohio in Columbus the following season before their spring game? If so, this could be the start of a great new tradition.
|3 years 5 weeks ago||They have two Michigan kids||
They have two Michigan kids in the 2012 class. Chris Walker and Riley Kennedy from Brother Rice. Rice is definitely the top program in Michigan, by far. Are those the top two players in the state? Who are the top guys in the 2013 class, and is UM recruiting them?
I think it's possible that they have classes sometimes with zero Michigan kids just because they might be able to do that much better with out-of-state talent.
|3 years 5 weeks ago||They will have to recruit||
They will have to recruit nationally. Denver is proving you can be successful without depending only on the east coast, but there isn't enough talent in Michigan to build a top program. They are doing a good job spreading their classes out so far. You'll see a lot of east coast kids, but you're also seeing recruits from other areas filling it out.
|3 years 5 weeks ago||They have a few really good||
They have a few really good ones coming in the 2012 class. Brad Lott was ranked the #1 faceoff specialist in the country by ESPN. Kyle Jackson was just ranked #2 Canadian by Inside Lacrosse in the 2012 class. In the 2013 class they already have three top 50 kids...Ian King, Austin Shanks (Canadian, but plays at Brewster Academy - a place that every Michigan basketball fan is now familiar with) and goalie Robbie Zonino. Very exciting how their recruiting has been going so far. Should upgrade significantly by the 2014 and 2015 classes.
|3 years 7 weeks ago||Lacrosse just got a top-50||
Lacrosse just got a top-50 commit from Brewster for their 2013 class. Coincidence? Assuming Shanks and McGary are friends.
|3 years 7 weeks ago||Can't wait for the next stage||
Can't wait for the next stage of Crisler work to be done. Better entryways and actual concourses instead of the dungeon-like corridors there now.
Lax facilities are reportedly going to be incredible.
Schembechler Hall redesign is also supposedly in the works.
|3 years 7 weeks ago||Wolpherine - do you have||
Wolpherine - do you have links to athletic facilities that qualify for your architectural ideal? I tend to agree, but I also think you walk a fine line when you try to get too creative. Architects created the Halo and Schembechler Hall after all (fail), and both designs were supposed to be highly conceptual. To me, these facilities are supposed to stay classic, functional and economical. The designs used in all of the recent athletic department structures have been low-risk, but certainly designed to make an impact with recruits and the average fan (me). Lee Bollinger would disagree.
|3 years 8 weeks ago||Bacon loves Michigan. Anyone||
Bacon loves Michigan. Anyone who knows him knows that. I'm glad to see that he wrote the truth as he saw it, and not some sugar-coated version. Can't wait to read it. Ordered mine today.
|3 years 9 weeks ago||I think the plan is to play||
I think the plan is to play before the spring game every year. Ohio State does that, and it's a pretty big deal for them down there. They set the regular season attendance record in 2010 with about 31,000 according to the internets. I hope they will also play OSU in the Horseshoe every other year before their spring game. That will be a brutal atmosphere for them, especially before they get good for the first few years, but what a neat opportunity.
The word is they are building two lacrosse facilities. Both will be down near soccer. One outdoor and one indoor. They need a turf field and space for fairly large crowds, so soccer isn't really an option. Lacrosse wrecks grass fields anyway, and I'm assuming the soccer stadium was never built with the infrastructure to handle more teams. Schools that have invested in lacrosse (see Notre Dame and Denver and now Penn State) have built or are building lacrosse-only facilities.
I'm biased, but I think over time lacrosse can become a big-time sport at Michigan. Kind of at the level of hockey. That's what Brandon keeps hinting at. Dedicated facilities are a big part of that.
Two or three wins this year would be amazing considering what they are working with. This can be a top-20 program in a few years though. Especially with the right facilities.
|3 years 10 weeks ago||I miss Tim's lacrosse updates||
I miss Tim's lacrosse updates here. Love what he's doing at GreatLaxState, but for awhile there this was my one stop shop for all things Michigan.
The winged helmet isn't going to recruit lacrosse players all by its lonesome. We are competing against schools like Duke, North Carolina, Virginia, Maryland, Hopkins, Notre Dame and the Ivy's for the top blue chips, and some of those schools have lacrosse traditions that are as established as our football tradition. It's gonna take some time. But we'll get there.
|3 years 11 weeks ago||What happend in your life||
What happend in your life that would foster such a strong negative sentiment toward hockey? Hate? Really? I honestly believe that in all my 30-odd years that's the first time I've ever heard/read that.
That said...watch the football game.
|3 years 11 weeks ago||As a lacrosse alum, "phew" to||
As a lacrosse alum, "phew" to some of those responses. Thanks for throwing us a bone on the other sport promos.
As a football fan, it seems that I am generally in line with the majority in this very scientifically sound survey. I want to know who decided that "In the Big House" was a good idea.
|3 years 15 weeks ago||Not the plan now||
When lacrosse was still club the plan was to build a lacrosse building next to Elbel and tranform Elbel into a multi-use field for lacrosse, rugby, IM's, etc. That's not the plan now that lacrosse is varsity. I think what you are seeing is on the old lacrosse club team website, not on their new mgoblue.com page.
Last I heard they will be building two (count 'em, two) lacrosse stadiums out near the soccer stadium. One outdoor and one indoor. Plus all their support stuff (Player Development Center). I can't wait to see what an indoor lacrosse stadium is going to look like.
|3 years 17 weeks ago||I hope mgoblog will continue||
I hope mgoblog will continue periodic lacrosse coverage now that Tim's riding off into the sunset. Glad to hear that GreatLaxState will be continuing.
Tim - any update on the schedule? Are the rumors that the team will be playing in the stadium before the spring game, like Ohio does, true?
|3 years 24 weeks ago||I think the guy you're||
I think the guy you're talking about got fired by both MSU and Wisconsin ultimately (no names here in case I'm thinking of someone else).
Wisconsin had a good club team back in the 80s and early 90s. They just recently joined the MCLA where Michigan was playing and have struggled at the higher level of club lacrosse.
I don't think the strength of the club team makes a huge difference though. That's just part of the reason DB added lacrosse. Big donors and an athletic department that makes money are more important factors.
|3 years 25 weeks ago||Brodie Merrill...||
is arguably the best LSM to ever play. Certainly he's among the best. He's Canadian. While Canada isn't loaded with field lacrosse defenders, they do exist. The field game is growing fast up north of the border. Merrill's Hill Academy teams tour the US every spring and compete with the best US high school teams. He had his teams in Michigan this spring I believe to play Brother Rice.
One important factor about Canadian players is they typically need more scholarship support to attend US schools. It's a blue collar sport up there, and the Canadian dollar doesn't help. UM will have the NCAA limit of 12.6 scholarships, with gives you just over 3 to use each year for a class of 12 or so recruits. If you bring in two Canadians in a class, that's potentially a pretty large chunk of the scholarship money you have available.
One correction to the article...a lacrosse field is 110 yards long, not 120.
Great series! Thanks for doing this.
|3 years 30 weeks ago||Practice helmets||
Those are just for practice. They wear the wings in games. I think Warrior/Brine gave them those as kind of a special mid-season present this year. More of a marketing move by Warrior probably than anything else. Love the old logo though.
What a great, great day for Michigan.
|3 years 30 weeks ago||JP has said the short term||
JP has said the short term plans are to use Michigan Stadium and Oosterbaan, with maybe one game a year in the soccer stadium. I would think there would be concern about playing lacrosse on the soccer grass field since it would tear it up. The long term plans seem to be building new lacrosse/track facilities, both indoor and outdoor, in the area where soccer and tennis are. I guess we'll see. They definitely need a dedicated facility eventually for recruiting purposes.
|3 years 30 weeks ago||Finally!||
Long time coming. Such great news for Michigan and for the lacrosse world.
|3 years 31 weeks ago||Defense||
I agree with mlax27. This is the first time I've had the chance to see the team play live this year, and they were outplayed defensively and on faceoffs, and that's what made the difference.
This has been a really amazing four years for Michigan lacrosse though. I'm excited for D1. As much as they will struggle at that level for the first few years, I think they are going to continue to be a program to be proud of. Go Blue!
|3 years 32 weeks ago||Denver||
On their way to Denver for the MCLA national championship tournament this week, I'm sure. Mulletts and foo manchus. Perfect. Your friend didn't take pictures?
Wonder if they'll be going to the Denver / Villanova game tomorrow at DU. They'll probably be playing DU next year once they are D1 and in the ECAC.
|3 years 32 weeks ago||Pannell. Then everyone else.||
Pannell. Then everyone else.
...and Go Emma!
|3 years 32 weeks ago||Lacrosse||
The lacrosse program won't be that competitive for a few years regardless of when it starts. With the top high school lacrosse players committing as juniors and even sophomores now, their first shot at a big time class is 2013, and those guys will need a couple of years to mature. Getting started next year makes sense on a few levels, including having absolutely nothing left to accomplish at the club level. Just don't expect them to tear it up for awhile.
The facility in the video that made the rounds last year was going to be built next to Elbel Field for the club team. It's my understanding that Dave Brandon told them to stop those plans, and that the athletic department would build new facilities as the program grows. Hopefully that will happen soon, as it will definitely have a big impact both on recruiting and attendance.
I'm a lacrosse guy, so I'm biased of course. But adding lacrosse is a bigger deal than I think a lot of Michigan people understand. One, adding any sport, especially a men's sport, at this time shows that Brandon has a very aggressive growth strategy. Two, lacrosse is a major sport at many of the schools that now sponsor it, and it continues to be the fastest growing sport in the country. It will take some time, but I can see lacrosse developing a hockey-like niche here at Michigan.
|3 years 32 weeks ago||Gotta figure Penn State and||
Gotta figure Penn State and Notre Dame will be on the schedule from the start just because of the natural rivalries there. UDM will probably be on as well? I'd guess Hopkins will show up at some point as well because JP and Petro seem to have a really good relationship.
I agree that the team should establish a schedule that presents themselves as an elite program, but they need to be careful not to get carried away. They need some balance. Going winless or 1-13 the first couple of years would be a tough start.
|3 years 32 weeks ago||Look for the formal||
Look for the formal announcement the week before the NCAA final four. That's my guess at this point. But I know that JP has been working behind the scenes within the athletic department and externally for at least the last few months on all things varsity.
It's kind of hard to have a bad draw in the tournament for Michigan. When you are clearly the best team, and you have beaten all of the other highly ranked teams, any draw works. But there is a TON of pressure on them this year. Everyone wants to beat them. It's everyone's last chance to do so. And it's not like they blow out every team they play. Sooner or later, if you play enough close games, it has to catch up to you.
Plus, if they are going to announce D1 after the MCLA tournament you better believe that JP and Brandon want to do that on the heels of their fourth straight national championship, rather than their second loss in four years. This whole varsity thing has to be a distraction.
|3 years 33 weeks ago||Easy one||
State has only beaten UM once in lacrosse since Sparty cut their D1 program in 1997. That was April 29, 2006. So 1,835 days.
For basketball it has been 427 days. (March 7, 2010)
|3 years 33 weeks ago||Yeah boys. Nice job. What||
Yeah boys. Nice job. What is that, something like 25-1 against Sparty?
And unless the two teams meet in the national tournament week after next this was State's last chance to steal one.
|3 years 33 weeks ago||Spring champs||
How about two spring championships this year? Softball and lacrosse both have great shots. Go Blue!
|3 years 34 weeks ago||D1 athletes||
The NCAA transfer rules don't have anything to do with coaches' agreements. The rule that requires a transfer to sit for a year only applies to football, basketball and maybe hockey and baseball? It doesn't apply to other sports.
Tim's list shows that there a lot of D1 lacrosse players in Michigan. It also shows that there aren't that many who are at an elite D1 level. Michigan will probably want to get the top one or two players from the state if they can every year, but if they are filling their roster with more in-state players than that they are not going to be competing for championships. Even now, as a top club team, the majority of the roster is from out of state. As a D1 team expect the out of state percentage to go up.
|3 years 34 weeks ago||Tim is right. They are||
Tim is right. They are probably not going to tear up the D1 world in year one or year two. Lacrosse recruiting at the elite level is two years ahead. The top programs have already filled their fall 2012 classes. The best high school sophomores are now considering where they will go and a handful have already committed. Expect Michigan to land their first elite recruits in fall 2013.
I do think they will get a lot of attention from transfers and whatever high level recruits are left for 2012. The question is, can they even get transfers in for next season? If not, they will really struggle. If the answer yes, they could be at least decent if everyone gels quickly.
My guess is they will really struggle next year, but the trend will be upwards with a huge leap in 2014 or 2015 (years three and four). New facilities will help a lot too.
|3 years 36 weeks ago||Always gotta be somebody who||
Always gotta be somebody who just can't resist being an ass. Here's to hoping he has three daughters, and they all end up being softball players. On second thought, here's to hoping he doesn't have kids at all - for the kids' sake.
UM softball is one of the teams you can count on at Michigan, year after year. To be that successful in a sport that is dominated by warm weather schools is incredible. Keep it up!
|3 years 36 weeks ago||Big game. Will probably see||
Big game. Will probably see them again May 8 in the CCLA championship.
Hearing some very interesting rumors about the varsity lacrosse announcement.
|3 years 38 weeks ago||21-0 actually last week||
21-0 actually last week against UCSB. Don't short them a goal. Yes. Absurd. Especially against the #10 team in the country.
CSU, tonight's victim, used to be the class of the MCLA. They used to wup us. Obviously they are still good if they were #2 and undefeated going into tonight, but 11-3 is a blowout. Nice job boys!
ASU tomorrow. Both wins against them last year, including the national championship, were by just one goal. I expect tomorrow will be a closer game.
|3 years 38 weeks ago||Always gonna be haters. No||
Always gonna be haters. No big deal. bcsblue's proudest personal sports moment may have been winning 6 games in a row at the CCRB (or in high school), and he's just looking for validation.
When I played the team was just starting to take things more seriously, and today's team is like night and day compared to what some people probably think of as "club." Full time coaches and staff, recruiting, admissions help, great facilities, major sponsorships, televised games. They aren't going to beat Syracuse tomorrow, but they are pretty much a varsity team in most respects and they dominate pretty much everyone else at their level. I suspect they are probably much more respected by the varsity athletes and coaches than they used to be as well. I don't know if I could have even made this team. Glad I played when I did or my proudest sports moments might have happened in the CCRB too.
|3 years 38 weeks ago||Welcome to the Boards||
Welcome to the Boards petey2846.
When have you ever heard that from the coaches? They've been clear for years that all the rumors were BS. JP was pretty clear in his alumni emails that as long as Bill Martin was AD varsity wasn't going to happen. It's only in the last year he's said it's highly likely, and Brandon is supporting that position pretty publicly.
I'm holding my breath.
|3 years 38 weeks ago||I get your point, and you're||
I get your point, and you're right...but the lax team already does own the MCLA, even without D1 recruits.
|3 years 38 weeks ago||Women's lacrosse is very hard||
Women's lacrosse can be very hard to watch at all but the highest levels. Kind of like field hockey. Too many whistles. The game is constantly stopping and resetting. Watch last year's national championship game between Maryland and Northwestern, and you'll see it at its most entertaining though. (It was an incredible game between really skilled teams.) Watch a lower level game, and it's torture.
It's a shame the two sports don't even have the same lines on the field. You build a stadium or field just for lacrosse, which I assume Michigan will do, and you still have two sets of lines.
I would have prefered if the plans called for adding women's ice hockey, but I suppose women's lacrosse is way cheaper.
|3 years 39 weeks ago||The plan is to add women's||
The plan is to add women's lacrosse along with the men. The athletic department is in final fundraising mode. If they get the $ they need, expect an announcement in the next few weeks. Varsity lacrosse will start fall of 2012 if they announce this spring. It's no coincidence the AD is attending and tweeting about club games. He's all in.
In case you missed it, MGoBlog's Tim has a lacrosse blog now. He has a write-up on the game last night, along with a lot of other stuff. Thanks, and keep it up Tim!
|3 years 39 weeks ago||hard to say||
Getting outshot doesn't mean they got outplayed. They did win 14-7 after all, which is a pretty lopsided score. First and fourth quarters were 5-1 and the second and third were pretty much even. They got outshot 17-5 (according to boxscore) in the 2nd, and only lost the quarter 3-2. I'm assuming that was because they had a string of penalties so BC had the ball most of the quarter, much of it with a man advantage.
Faceoffs were a concern going into the season. The team was at about 65% for the year, which is really good, but this is the second time this season they've been below 50% in a game (Chapman was the other). When they go against really good faceoff guys, they are going to struggle there. So far they've been able to overcome that.
|3 years 39 weeks ago||You know 1000's of people||
You know 1000's of people there. You have a whole community on this board. Maybe set up a Mgoblog group to hit Fraser's before one of next week's games and then head over to Oosterbaan. Wish I could go. Missing alumni weekend next weekend because of HS coaching obligations here at home.
|3 years 39 weeks ago||Third team for men's. Ohio||
Third team for men's. Ohio State and Penn State have D1 men's lacrosse. That's it. Michigan State used to, but cut it 1997 - just before the sport really started exploding (nice timing Sparty). You're right that Northwestern would be a great fit given the success of their women's program.
I think the only way you see Big 10 lacrosse in the near future is conference expansion into the Big East/Notre Dame. Longshot.
|3 years 40 weeks ago||Big weekend||
Huge weekend April 1 and 2 at home.
Friday, April 1 vs #3 Colorado State
Saturday, April 2 vs. #2 Arizona State (rematch of last year's national championship game)
Both games at 7pm at Oosterbaan.
If you pick one weekend to go out to see this team play, that's the one.
|3 years 43 weeks ago||I love it!||
I never thought I'd see the day people on mgoblog would be arguing about Virginia and Syracuse lacrosse results. This makes me happy.
Now hopefully we can get Michigan lacrosse in a serious discussion about competing with Cuse and UVA in the not-too-distant future.
|3 years 43 weeks ago||Correct, basketball||
Lacrosse is definitely more like basketball than any other sport, as douggoblue said. Tactically very similar. Much more physical of course. (AeonBlue, I'm a little insulted you called it a cross between field hockey and soccer. I'll get over it, but it may take awhile.) The indoor version of the game (think arena football) is much more like hockey, and is also the more popular version in Canada, while the American field version is played around the world (38 countries in the world championships last summer, won by USA over Canada). Women's lacrosse is very, very different than men's lacrosse. No helmets. Different rules and equipment. Less physical. More differences than baseball and softball, by comparison.
It is a shame lacrosse isn't more appreciated in the midwest given it's growth. 110 high school teams in Michigan now, and more every year. The same story in most of the country. It's relatively high scoring, physical and creative. I think it can become a major sport at Michigan, similar to hockey, given the time to build up a varsity tradition.
Lacrosse is a spring sport. Most of the top lacrosse players in the country were also very good high school football players in the fall (some played soccer, but football is a better match), and many play hockey or basketball in the winter. Jim Brown is the most famous football/lacrosse player. Evan Royster at Penn State was a great high school lacrosse player. Former UM football players who were good high school lacrosse players include Jumbo Elliot, Steve Morrison, Gannon Dudlar, among others.
As the sport grows and more high schools add it, you're defintely starting to see an impact on baseball, as its main spring competition for athletes. The two sports couldn't be more different. You can see its appeal to kids who want a fast-paced contact sport in the spring. Fortunately, baseball has plenty of athletes to spare since it has pretty much monopolized spring high school sports for 100+ years. (I like baseball. Not hating.)
|3 years 45 weeks ago||Interesting that the varsity||
Interesting that the varsity question never even comes up in this. JP mentions D1 coaching at the end, but the interviewer never asks about the plans. Maybe he can't really talk about it right now. There was an article about lacrosse in the Daily the other day, and his answer about the varsity question was positive but non-commital.
I played for JP closer to the start of his college coaching career. I consider him a friend now. It's amazing for those of us who played to watch how far he's taken the program, and it's obvious how much he's grown as a coach. I'm very proud of him and the team, and I'm excited for the future.
|3 years 47 weeks ago||Hot Jacket||
It's called a hot jacket, and it's a pretty standard piece of coaching apparel. Our UM lacrosse coaches all had them when I was there too. I think both Nike and adidas make them, as I remember our coaches wearing them through the transition. They are kind of like golf pullovers. They are most popular in baseball I think. They come in either short sleeve or long sleeve or convertable (removable long sleeves).
I always wanted one, but the coaches hoarded them for themselves. So now that I'm coaching high school I was sure to order one.
|3 years 47 weeks ago||Tonight's scrimmage||
Just got a tweet that a bunch of guys, including Freid, aren't dressing tonight. I'm assuming they are all nursing injuries. Hopefully Freid is back soon. He is a huge part of what they do defensively and in their ride, and he's physical as hell.
As for McGee, I doubt very much he'll push for serious playing time at Virginia. He was the third goalie at Michigan, and while we are pretty good here - we ain't the Hoos (yet).
I agree with M&BWahoo that the ECAC would be a good fit for Michigan, and I hear that's what they are considering for the D1 team. The ECAC has a pretty wide range of teams, from Bellarmine and Hobart up to Loyola and Denver. Plus Ohio State plays there. It's better than the MAAC, but it's not the ACC by any means. Making the tournament in their first four years would be an achievable goal, especially if they build the right facilities.
|3 years 47 weeks ago||other sports||
Barwis was not responsible for other sports at Michigan. He and his staff were only responsible for football, although he choose to help out directly with hockey, men's soccer, hockey and some with men's lacrosse (which is how I know this). There is a guy there named Mike Favre who is responsible for strength and conditioning for all sports other than football, and I get the sense that he and his staff don't really coordinate what they are doing with the football strength staff at all.
|3 years 47 weeks ago||Also, scrimmage tonight is||
Also, scrimmage tonight is against Bellarmine. You have it as Wittenberg in the last paragraph. And Healy plays midfield, not defense. (sorry to nitpick)
Thanks for the continued lacrosse coverage Tim!
To answer the one comment about success rate against varsity opposition, Michigan typically fares very well, depending on the time of year and caliber of competition. They almost always lose varsity scrimmages in the fall, but they almost always win them in the spring preseason. Last year they beat Bellarmine (bottom 25% of D1) pretty handily, and also beat Wittenberg and Ohio Wesleyan (both middle of the pack NCAA D3). But keep in mind that these are just scrimmages, so although they are played like real games both teams are approaching these more as a way to prepare for the season rather than as a full game. They rest injured players who might have played in a real game. They don't scout or gameplan. They don't have all of their systems in. They go deeper in the roster to evaluate players.
As Coach Paul always says, it doesn't really matter how they do in varsity scrimmages. Their task is to be successful in the MCLA, which they are doing better than anyone else ever has. When Brandon makes varsity lacrosse a reality, then the program will start to be judged on NCAA results, and I have no doubt that if the right support is provided (facilities, staff, scholarships) Michigan could develop into an NCAA powerhouse in a few years.
|4 years 2 weeks ago||No way JP would take an||
No way JP would take an assistant job at Michigan. Can't see it. The guy has been the head coach there for like 15 years. It's his program. He's a proud guy. I bet he would turn that down if it happened. I can't imagine Brandon would do that to him, especially since (internally) it seems like they are leaning on him so heavily to help plan for the varsity program. He built the club program into national relevance. He brought in the donors they are leaning on to get this done. And he's been working at the university, in other capacities before he was the coach, for years. I imagine he's pretty networked at that place. Plus, as you say, he's qualified. Look what Steve Burns is doing with the men's soccer team. He was the club coach previously.
Of course, who knows what Brandon is thinking when it comes to coach hire decisions. All speculation.
|4 years 2 weeks ago||I doubt very much JP would||
I doubt very much JP would just "step aside" no matter who else is available. He's put too much of his life into building this program, and he's very qualified to lead it as it moves up to D1. Michigan would not be better served hiring some outside non-Michigan man (sound familiar?) just because they have a history elsewhere. He also seems pretty well connected in the D1 lacrosse world. I'd guess most of the coaches out there assume this is his job for the taking, and are probably already starting to make plans for scheduling and conference affiliation with him.
I have no idea what Brandon is thinking (does anyone?), but I'm very confident in assuming JP wants this job no matter what.
If what you're saying that this is a done deal is true, then I'm ecstatic. However I get the sense, both from Brandon's interview and from JP, that there are still a few things that have to get hammered out before it's officially green-lighted.
|4 years 12 weeks ago||CCLA||
EMU was kicked out. They'll probably still have a team, just not in the MCLA. Miami, WVU and Buffalo all went to different conferences.
|4 years 13 weeks ago||O'Leary||
As the bio said, Mike O'Leary is a UM lacrosse alum. He does videos for them every year that are a lot like this one that you can see on the lacrosse team website, and he did a lot of stuff for the Canes when he was living down in Miami. Hopefully football will find more ways to use him. He's good.
I know for the lacrosse videos he usually gets one of the voices from NFL films to do the narration. The guy on this one sounds like he may be one of those too.
|4 years 13 weeks ago||I made that exact same||
I made that exact same comment many times when I was in college.
|4 years 13 weeks ago||I think only Eastern Michigan||
I think only Eastern Michigan was kicked out. The other three defected to other conferences. Miami to the GRLC. Buffalo to the PCLL. West Virginia to the SELC. A couple years ago it was Indiana and Purdue going to the GRLC. I can't say I blame any of them. None of them are ever going to get by Michigan, and Michigan State now a tough out too. They are probably choosing easier paths to the national tournament.
Interesting that Michigan was put in the East while Michigan State is in the West. So their annual game won't count as a conference game?
Hopefully lacrosse will be varsity in the next couple of years and all of this won't matter any more.
|4 years 29 weeks ago||Michigan||
To bring this back to Michigan...would a ND national championship help the Michigan case for varsity lacrosse at all? I'm sure it would at least open some eyes, even if temporarily. And it certainly indicates that it's possible to compete at the highest levels of the sport outside of the traditional powers.
It pains me to say this, but Go Irish!
|4 years 30 weeks ago||Congrats||
Great job men's rowing! From a lacrosse alum to everyone associated with Michigan men's rowing, congratulations!
Men's lacrosse and men's crew were the first two varsity club programs, and I know from a lacrosse perspective we always considered the rowing team to be kind of a kindred spirit - a very serious team that operates as if it's varsity.
|4 years 31 weeks ago||good discussion||
It is growing that fast. Nationally, not just in Michigan. I don't have to time to post links to the actual statistics here, but I know US Lacrosse recently ran another one of their annual reports on that subject. I'm sure they are available at their website. www.lacrosse.org
Since Hobart report you linked, the sport has been added at the D1 level at Jacksonville and Detroit Mercy. There is no doubt it is not growing at the men's D1 level at nearly the rate it is everywhere else. Lacrosse is exploding at the youth, high school, men's D2 and D3 and women's D1, D2 and D3 levels. This growth is happening despite the current economy. If this trend continues, as it has for the past 10-12 years (I believe it's something like 10% a year, which is pretty impressive), then D1 men's growth is coming. As the self-described "Leaders and Best" Michigan should find a way to get in on that now, not 10 or 20 years from now when everyone else has already done it (as we did with soccer).
I'm biased obviously. I played lacrosse at Michigan. But as a current East Coast high school coach, I can tell you that Michigan would compete for top talent in recruiting. They already get a lot of mid-range D1 level players as a non-scholarship club team! Could they compete for national championships with Virginia, Syracuse and Hopkins right away? No. But I do believe they could have a tournament level team fairly quickly.
That's not the reason to add the sport though. Coach Paul stresses the real reasons all the time. It's about branding and fundraising. Varsity lacrosse could have a major impact on Michigan in a lot of ways off the field, in addition to being a very popular and successful sport on the field. I know for a fact that the powers that be at Michigan (from the AD all the way up to vice presidents and regents) are already very aware of this. I don't know how far along this agenda is toward actual implementation, but winning another championship certainly doesn't hurt.
And no, rugby is not an NCAA sport. There are varsity teams, yes. According to USA Rugby, there are currently 5 women's varsity teams. One of them is at a D1 school. They do not list any men's varsity teams, but I have always thought Cal was the only one. This doesn't mean it's an NCAA sport though. There has to be an NCAA champiohship for that. There are number of varsity men's crew teams, but no NCAA championship. Thus no NCAA men's crew (there is NCAA women's crew).
|4 years 31 weeks ago||You have some facts wrong||
Hobart did not drop to D3. They are still D1 in lacrosse.
The GWLL didn't really disband. The teams involved shifted to other conferences. This move was made mostly because the Big East started sponsoring lacrosse as a conference sport, thus moving Notre Dame out of the GWLL and into their natural conference. This was more a sign of the strength of the sport (that the Big East picked it up) than a weakness (the GWLL going away). The other GWLL teams joined the ECAC.
As many are stating, the time is perfect to add lacrosse at Michigan as a varsity sport. It continues to be the fastest growing sport in the US (and among the fastest growing internationally). It has exploded across the midwest and west, including Michigan (where there are now more HS lacrosse players than HS hockey players).
Lacrosse also fits the Michigan image and brand. Michigan is as much of an east coast private school as any midwest public school could ever be, if that makes any sense at all. I would suspect that plays heavily into the administration's interest in the sport - as does the potential donors that sport could bring to the athletic department and the university as a whole. I think this is much less about how successful the club team is, and much more about what lacrosse could do for the university. If the end result benefits the university, then the sport should be added. From what I'm hearing Dave Brandon and many of the top administrators of the university understand this and are very serious about the possibility.
Don't compare lacrosse to rugby. Rugby is a club sport. Period. There is no NCAA rugby, so there is nothing else to aspire to. Lacrosse has a proud and old NCAA tradition, and aside from men's D1 it is one of the fastest growing NCAA sports (I assume men's D1 is held back mostly because of Title IX). The NCAA final four, which is weekend after next, is the best attended NCAA championship event of any sport aside from men's basketball.
Adding lacrosse at Michigan makes perfect sense.
|4 years 32 weeks ago||It would make sense||
for a lot of reasons other than just the fact that the club team is good. There are economic and marketing reasons that the university is taking a hard look at adding lacrosse.
The new building the team is about to build has to play in a role in all of that as well.
|4 years 34 weeks ago||budget||
Thanks UMman. You seem to have more inside info than me. Post more often.
You're right about the budget. I recall JP saying that the actual operating budget is around $500,000 a year, but if you add in what they get through their sponsors it is closer to the $1 million mark.
|4 years 34 weeks ago||I'm not sure||
As a player, I was never really clear on a lot of the administrative stuff that was going on, so I don't really know how the varsity club thing helped. I can tell you that the team is still nearly 100% self-funded, and the budget, according to JP, is nearly $1 million a year. I don't think varsity club meant that the university kicked any more financial support. Plus, as has been mentioned, the team in building its own version of Schembechler Hall for several million dollars - all from private funds.
As players we took most of the behind the scenes stuff for granted, and it's just in hindsight that I started to realize how good we had it. What's scary is the current team is light years ahead, in terms of support, facilities, coaching, equipment, travel, of what we had when I played. I don't think there are more than a handful of D1 teams that have the resources the Michigan team has. The fact that they (JP) have done all of this themselves is mindboggling.
I do know the team has been running camps and clinics, both in the summer and winter, for years. I have worked them. They are really well attended, and they get kids from all of the over the country. The Michigan name is a big draw, club or not. Their camps are listed on the camp page at mgoblue.com, so I assume that's one of the ways the varsity club thing has helped. I have no idea what they pay to use facilities for camp.
|4 years 34 weeks ago||Little Brother||
From friends who were there it sounds like MSU is really much improved this year, but that after a shaky start UM dominated for the most part. Not sure why the scoring was down. They put up 21 the last two times they played Sparty. They will probably see each other again next weekend in the CCLA championship in Saline, barring another MSU meltdown like last year.
Sounds like the weather was kind of crappy this weekend in Michigan, which may have kep the crowd down a bit, but over 2000 is pretty good for a cold, wet game.
Michigan is now 20-1 against State over the past 13 years.
|4 years 35 weeks ago||Go Blue!||
Wish I could be there. Will be there in spirit. Nothing better than singing the Victors after a win over Sparty. Go Blue boys!
|4 years 35 weeks ago||music||
Well, to be fair, they don't play the music DURING actual game play like they did / do? at NLL games. Cheesy. It's just during breaks and pre-game. I like it personally. I'd be a little bored if they didn't. Although, as I said, I would much prefer the hockey pep band.
Saw a Virginia game on TV a couple of weeks ago with packed stands (what an incredible atmosphere they have) and a very good pep band. I think they still had piped in music for warmups though.
Agree 100% on the Cornell band. Also on the Hopkins "band." No offense, as I see JHU in your screen name, but I don't know how even a Bluejay can enjoy that.
|4 years 35 weeks ago||Dude||
Took me literally 2 minutes to go to the Syracuse athletic site, click on their media guide, and find out their results against MSU. Last time they played was 1994 in the final regular season game. It was at Syracuse. Score was 26-10. A blowout, but not exactly 33-0. Cuse also beat Cornell that season 22-5.
I can't find archives of MSU records, but the Spartans were not very good until their last couple of years. In 1996 they were a top 20 team. Then they got cut. Keep in mind this was before anyone off the east coast was good at lacrosse. Things have changed a lot since then.
Michigan's club team has an overall winning record against Michigan State's D1 team, by the way.
|4 years 35 weeks ago||they do already||
They scrimmage top-20 D3 teams all the time (which are generally better than high D2 teams in lacrosse). They generally do well against them, for what it's worth. They have also scrimmaged many lower level D1 teams like the ones you mentioned, including Bellarmine this spring (slightly above Detroit and Wagner). They smoked Bellarmine.
Nobody would expect them to compete with the top half of D1 right now, but I would bet you'd be surprised at how well they could hold up against them. Two years ago they scrimmaged Ohio State just before the season in Columbus. Preseason scrimmages like this are usually a much better gauge of competitive ability than fall scrimmages since the teams are fine-tuning to get ready for real games. This was Ohio State's best team ever. They spanked Cornell that year in Ithaca in the first round of the NCAA tourney. Michigan held their own.
I always describe them as a top level D3 team, which in lacrosse is much more of a compliment than it is in most other sports. I think it's pretty accurate. The team has a handful of legit D1 players and a lot of solid D3 players, and they run things as if they are varsity, not club.
|4 years 35 weeks ago||Sparty||
MSU did not play Syracuse a few years back. I don't know where that post came from, but it didn't happen. State hasn't played Syracuse since the mid-90s. And in the mid-90s State was NCAA D1 in lacrosse and pretty darn good at that. They were cut in 1997 for Title 9 reasons. Too bad, as this was just before the sport became the fastest growing sport in America, as it has been for the past 10 years or so, and continues to be. Bad timing for Sparty.
Most of the top D1 coaches that I know (if I leave out names is it still name dropping?) believe that Michigan could be a very competitive D1 team very quickly. It's important to remember that the current team, as good as it is, isn't all that relevant to how the team would be as a D1 team 4 or 5 years down the road. I'm not saying they would suddenly become Syracuse or Virginia, but Michigan could definitely become a team that expects to make the tournament every year.
As a club team, the Michigan team and coaches are highly respected by their varsity counterparts. I don't think that's the case with any other club team in the country. That's why they scrimmage so many varsity teams, and it's why Hopkins and Army came out two years ago. Coach Paul has said that they are asked about similar fall events every year by top-20 D1 teams, but until they get suitable facilities done (Elbel Field conversion) to host events like that, they won't do it.
|4 years 36 weeks ago||Thanks||
for the shout out Tim. phjhu89 brings a lot of knowledge as well. I just think it's awesome to even have this forum to talk about Michigan lacrosse. Nobody was covering the team a couple of years ago. Now they are all over the place.
I wish I could be there Saturday. Coaching HS lacrosse makes it tough to ever get out to see my boys play live. Thank God the MCLA final four is on TV.
|4 years 36 weeks ago||10 Man continued||
I see your concern, but I think you are approaching this from a high level D1 perspective. Michigan is a D1 caliber team, but they aren't a high level D1 caliber team. They are the clear cream of the crop in the MCLA. They don't have to strategize like an elite D1 team. In some ways they do, but in many ways that might even be counter-productive. Their record and the stats show that their riding philosophy continues to dominate even the best MCLA teams. If that ends, I'm sure they will adjust. For now, why change? They do something that sets them apart and wins big games. For the record, I do think the 10-man is an integral part of their success. I don't think they are 50-1 without it. Lacrosse is all about possessions. Michigan puts more emphasis on the ride, faceoffs and ground balls than most other teams, and those are the three main ways to alter the number of possessions (aside from pressure defense). There are other teams that emphasize faceoffs and ground balls at a high level, but I really think the thing that has set Michigan apart on the field the past three years is the ride. Again, even the best MCLA teams cannot handle it. If you watch Michigan in spring scrimmages against NCAA teams, it's the same thing. They can't clear.
I also don't think what they are doing tactically now is in any way relevant to a future D1 team. These are good coaches. If D1 happens, and JP (and KB) get the jobs - if they need to adjust, they will adjust.
JP's alumni email came out about an hour ago. As I suspected, the Colorado loss was more about the team being flat than anything else. He painted a pretty grim picture of their mental state leading up to the game. He blamed the loss mostly on focus breakdowns, especially on defense. He didn't talk about the ride much, which leads me to believe that it wasn't a major deciding factor. He did say the CU goalie stood on his head, which can be an upset factor even when a great team has everything clicking.
As for the penalties, I don't see a trend with this team on taking too many of them. They are way, way behind their opponents on total penalties, which makes sense because they have the ball a lot more thanks to the ride (see what I did there?). In MCLA land, where officials are often one step away from sideline parents in lacrosse knowledge, the number of penalties in a game is often a crapshoot. Michigan had 2 penalties against CU and only 1 for 30 seconds against CSU. If it was an issue for a game or two, it's not anymore.
|4 years 36 weeks ago||10 Man Ride||
I played at Michigan and coach HS lacrosse now, and I posted my thoughts on the use of the 10 man ride in detail on another thread that I can't find right now. Coach Paul goes into a lot of detail on this stuff in his alumni emails. (I'm hoping this week's email comes out today. I can't wait to read his candid thoughts on what happened this weekend.)
The bullet point version is:
The team has won 50 of 51 since 2007 with the 10 man as their main ride. They've done this against what is consistently one of the toughest strength of schedules in the MCLA, often on the road. They practice it in everything they do. Almost every drill ends in a ride/clear situation. It's part of their core culture and lexicon.
The team has multiple rides that they use in various situations. The 10 man is their base ride, but they do switch to completely different rides at times. The 10 man they run also has some pretty significant variations to counter adjustments other teams make in their clear.
Michigan runs the 10 man differently than any team in the country, except maybe NY Tech (NCAA D2 - not sure if NYT is still using it the same way this year since Jack Kaley retired). Asst. Coach Broschart brought it with him. (He was an AA at NY Tech and coached there as well.) For one, they use it off of saves and turnovers. NOBODY else does this. It takes a total commitment to practice to do this. Also, they have some technique things they do that are very different than the typical 10 man ride. It's a complex system. I have heard JP say that it's a big reason the team always struggles in fall scrimmages (against NCAA teams), but typically dominates NCAA teams in spring scrimmages. In the fall they are not yet running the ride effectively. I have picked JP's brain pretty extensively on their system, but I can't replicate it at the HS level because we don't have enough practice time in the off-season to get good at it.
Every team they play in the MCLA is terrified of the UM ride. They have to prepare for it, and like any unique system there is no way they can really replicate it in practice.
Do teams sometimes get cheap goals or good chances off it? Sure. It's like playing press coverage in football. For Michigan, the risk/reward has obviously been worth it. For every opportunity they give up, they get multiple scoring chances in return.
Michigan typically dominates even the best MCLA teams with the 10 man. It's not just the weak teams. The stats back this up. For video evidence, take a look at last year's semifinal against Colorado and two years ago in the semis and finals against BYU and Chapman. In last year's final, Chapman had to completely alter their strategy and personnel to gameplan for UM's ride. They took their best athlete and one of their top offensive middies effectively off the field for offense in order to use him on D to shut Yealy and to clear. It worked in a sense, but it definitely hurt them offensively. They cleared more often using him than most teams do against Michigan, but the strategy they came up with basically to run this player up the field like a punt returner, which does not expose the ride to fast breaks.
In order to win as many games as they have, the Michigan coaching staff has to be pretty good at making in-game adjustments. I'm sure they do this with the ride as well.
Reading between the lines it seems like Michigan was simply not mentally ready on Friday. I'm sure CU did some things to beat the ride, but if the team isn't playing well, they aren't playing well. They definitely rebounded pretty well from the loss. I'm hoping it was more of a fluke loss that will help them in the stretch run. I can't imaging trying to keep a team motivated for every single game when they haven't lost in almost 3 years. Even tougher when you're playing a pretty solid team (national semifinalist last year) you've never lost to (they were 7-0) that you destroyed twice the year before and with the #2 team in the country coming up two days later.
phjhu, it's obvious you know lacrosse. I really respect your opinion on here. I hope my viewpoint from the inside (kind of) helps explain the UM philosophy on this. When I get JP's email, I'll pass along his general thoughts on what happened.
|4 years 36 weeks ago||I should add||
that they have won 50 of their last 51 games using the 10-man. Nobody else is even close to that. And from the report, it doesn't sound like the ride was the main culprit in the Colorado loss. I'm expectantly awaiting this week's alumni email from JP to hear exactly what happened. He tends to be pretty open in them. None of the media speak.
|4 years 36 weeks ago||Are you talking about Petro's version?||
Or Scotts? Where did the quote come from? Regardless, I agreed with you. Elite D1 teams don't 10-man ride for obvious reasons. I would assume that the UM staff would adjust their strategy if they were coaching an elite D1 team. There is probably a lot they would adjust. If the team was truly elite, they would be coaching a completely different level of player/athlete.
I disagree with your assertion about MCLA teams learning to beat Michigan's ride. It's been three years. Nobody has really figured it out yet. In fact, their riding percentages have gotten better. They are holding teams to UNDER 50% ON THE YEAR! That's rediculous. This is not all coming against the cupcakes they have to play in conference games. All but three of their games this year have been against solid teams.
The top ranked teams they've played this year were BYU, ASU and CSU (all top 5). All three games were on the road, where the 10-man should be less effective (regulation size field versus the slightly narrower field and ceiling in Oosterbaan). ASU was 18-36 clearing. 50% is abysmal. They don't show their season stats on their website, but I assume they usually clear at a much higher rate. BYU was 13 of 21. Slightly better, but still way below the level they must usually clear at. I'll be interested to see CSU numbers from today, but I'd be willing to bet Michigan's ride played a huge role in their win.
As long as they can keep quality opponents under 65%, I wouldn't bet on seeing them go away from the 10-man. You're right that breakdowns occasionally result in fast breaks, but they usually don't. The trade off is they get turnovers in their opponents' offensive zone, often resulting in empty net goals or 1 on the goalie chances. I'm shocked that more MCLA teams, and more D2 and D3 teams for that matter, don't commit to the 10 man as their base ride. If you teach it right and get your team to buy in, it's a game changer.
|4 years 36 weeks ago||10 man ride||
The Michigan 10 man ride is very effective against even the best MCLA teams. Top MCLA lacrosse is on par with top D2 lacrosse, and Coach Kaley made his career, and won several national championships, based on the same ride. Ken Broschart, who was an All-American at NY Tech and coached there briefly, brought the ride with him when JP hired him three years ago. Look at the stats. Michigan is holding everyone, including the top MCLA teams, to under 50% clearing. Even if you give up a cheap goal or two, if you're keeping teams from clearing at that rate you're coming out way ahead in number of possessions.
Michigan's 10-man ride is unique in a lot of ways. I've never seen another team use one out of saves and turnovers, but Michigan does. It has also has several variations and adjustments, based on what the other team is doing. It's also important to note that Michigan does not use the 10 man ride all the time. They use two other rides that are much more standard, but also aggressive, again depending on the situation.
If you're quoting the Bob Scott of Technique and Tradition, then you're quoting some pretty out-dated material. The fundamentals and character stuff he outlines in that book are rock solid no matter the era, but the game has changed dramatically since it was written. Calling it the bible of lax is probably appropriate. Just like the actual bible describes things the way they were thousands of years ago.
There are current D1 tams that use 10 man rides. A couple of them use them a lot. I agree you can't make it your bread and butter at the elite D1 level, but Michigan has won two national championships using it. Watch last year's semifinal against Colorado and the year before against BYU. They absolutely destroyed those teams with it. The coaches are getting the most out of their personnel at the level they currently play at. I'm sure they understand that the same things they are doing now aren't the same things they'd be doing if they were playing Virginia and Syracuse.
On topic, I'm upset about the loss, but I do get the sense, being fairly close to the program still, that they have a hard time getting motivated on gameday sometimes after winning every game for almost three years. Hopefully this is the kick in the ass they need.
|4 years 37 weeks ago||Definitely||
JP could definitely coach at the D1 level. He should keep Ken Broschart on staff too. I'm sure there are things they would have to do differently (not as much 10-man ride?) and recruiting would be very different (going after sophomores and juniors from the hotbeds), but they have proven they can motivate a team, keep it motivated, make in-game adjustments (watch last year's championship game) and do all the little things that it takes to win. JP is obviously respected in the lacrosse world. It seems like he's pretty tight with a lot of D1 coaches already. He knows the university and the athletic department because of his professional background. He's a Michigan Man.
Hell, even if all that wasn't true, he should be hired just based on what he's done to build the program. I'm biased of course since I played at UM and know him, but I hope that if and when varsity happens they keep him there.
|4 years 37 weeks ago||well...||
Not sure that Rich Rod is actually into lacrosse. I seem to remember that he and coach Paul are both close to someone who is, and that same person is also close with Tressel and a bunch of other BCS football coaches. Agent or financial guy maybe? Whoever it is, he loves lacrosse and has influence with a lot of these football coaches.
|4 years 37 weeks ago||Yes||
According to JP (Coach Paul), Rich Rod himself suggested this last year when the two of them met. I get the sense that Martin was the biggest roadblock. And yes, they would paint lacrosse lines on the Big House field. If Ohio State will do it in the Horseshoe...
The Ohio State athletic department markets their lacrosse game before the spring game very heavily, and Tressel is very involved in that marketing. 90% of the people in the stands may not be die-hard lacrosse fans, but playing a regular season game in front of 40,000 or more is great for the sport.
|4 years 37 weeks ago||I'm alum of the team and I||
I'm alum of the team and I can understand your viewpoint. I kind of relate. I'm really proud of what the team is doing now, and I'm a little jealous that it's happening after I graduated. But I also think it's high time lacrosse was D1. They have proven all they can prove in the MCLA. Lacrosse would be a great varsity sport at Michigan. It fits.
But I do hope you go out and support the team now. If you want varsity lacrosse, then Brandon needs to see how much support there is for lacrosse. Big crowds and lots of fans are part of that. I also hope you respect the team for doing what they are doing. They can't help that they aren't D1. They are dominating at the level they are allowed to compete at. 200 other club teams can't say that. 90% of varsity teams can't say that. They are respected enough that varsity teams schedule them and Hopkins and Army even traveled out to Ann Arbor to scrimmage them and has offered to come back. That says a lot about both the current club program and the potential at Michigan.
And I disagree about Michigan becoming a top D1 program. I'm from Long Island. I went to a high school that is often ranked nationally. I think Michigan could build a competitive D1 program very quickly.
|4 years 37 weeks ago||Sunday||
CSU game is Sunday at noon.
|4 years 38 weeks ago||going for 50||
Last night was Michigan's 49th win in a row, going back to the start of the 2008 season. They go for 50 this Saturday against a struggling but talented Colorado team in Boulder, and then on Sunday they play a very good, undefeated Colorado State team in Fort Collins. With Chapman losing to Oregon this weekend, CSU will probably move up to #2 this week. #1 vs #2. What's better than that?