Recruiting top players is a 2-3 year gig now. Few OL play their first year and only some their second year. And we needed a pipeline at every position on the o-line, not just one.
But good coaches like Harbaugh always have a way to convince the team they're the underdog and they are going to lose if they don't bring it to that game
I agree with you if it's about this year. We were 8-5, period. I agree with that.
When we're looking at next year, it's a factor though. Youngest team in the country was 8-5, that means we're probably on the right track. Deeper analysis gives more indication of that
We were the youngest team in the country this year. Yet we had the #3 defense. We also showed a lot of promise/ability in the run game. Even if Patterson isn't approved, Peters showed promise this year and is maturing.
Even Emil Ekiyor mentioned that when he decommitted. He said that wasn't the issue, we have such a young team and we'll be fine
Seriously? One of the top D's in the country? And the O will get at least marginally better.
If we don't get Shea approved for next year, still, people keep forgetting that Peters was playing decently and improving before the Outback Bowl. Clearly the concussion affected his development.
It would be incredibly difficult to hold your own county because you either need to go undefeated or the team that takes it from you has to lose it to someone and you have to beat them later in the year and hold it
The rating is clearly about the defense, which is awesome.
For sure you're right that our O needs to improve, but if it only gets to servicable then we would be a threat.
Particularly think about how badly our O left our D on the field and put them in bad positions. Particularly since our strength was our run game and we could burn a lot of clock.
I'm not by any means saying I'm thinking championship next year. But we are way ahead of most teams because of our D, which should be even better
Hope it wasn't serious like the death of a parent or anything, but I'm glad to hear that about him personally. I think he has a great future ahead of him
I'm thinking it's still academics? I've never heard any character issue rumors about him. He sounds like a good kid. While they aren't usually specific about injuries, they seem to generally acknowledge them.
He was a low three star. You're correct that he walked on. He did have scholarship offers from lesser schools. That happens at Michigan sometimes too that we get walk ons who have offers from lower tier schools
It's alreay way ahead of any Harbaugh class at Michigan at this point.
It's probably more about playing time than positions available for 3/4 stars. With two mega classes in a row and few upper classmen, we only lose a few players in 2017 and 2018. That means they'd be competing with starters and multi-year starters for the next few years.
With 5 stars, it's probably a combination of luck as well as wanting to see the results on the field. 2019 players may feel by the time they sign that's less of an issue because they will have the chance to see results before they actually sign.
Remember what happened to Hoke's 2015 class. It was spectacular, then we lost all the top players when we tanked that year and it was increasingly obvious he'd be canned. Of course they didn't know Harbaugh would end up coming
That just because someone is a QB guru, that means they can teach anyone to be an elite quarterback in college football.
Again being a season that was pointed to as our down year ... before Harbaugh took over ... I don't see the huge issue with 8-5.
I totally expect us to get better the next several years, it's no blank check. But it is what was realisticly expected this year. Harbaugh can't go back and re-recruit the 2013, 2014 and 2015 years before he took over
Yes, it is. I agree that eight is the right number. I always liked eight from the beginning. Sixteen would be four extra games, that's just too many. Particularly since I doubt they will cancel the conference championship games
Also, you compete with OSU and Alabama by winning and building a rep and continuing to sign better players as you win. It's not an instantaneous process
That's going to be an issue particularly for younger players who haven't spent as many years in strength and conditioning programs as the upper classmen.
I agree with you though that Harbaugh did see it as an issue of course though since as you accurately point out he changed the strength and conditioning coach after saying we need to get stronger.
We did sign Ruiz, Filiaga, Stuber and Honniford last year and Hayes and Mayfield this year. And Hudson is going to the O-line.
With Hamilton, it's really hard to hate on a kid who gets into Stanford with a free ride.
Newsome was just an unfortunate thing. We'd be a lot better off with him for sure.
It's unfortunate Bradeson was pressed into service as early as he was rather than spending a year in the weight room and practice field. He's not been all bad, hopefully he starts to turn the corner now that he's going into his junior year.
I don't think the cupboard is as bare as you do. But I do agree that overall our recruiting hasn't been as effective on the o-line as it has been at most other positions.
Also, if Ja'raymond Hall saw playing time in his future, I think he'd have stayed. He doesn't see the cupboard as bare either.
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Recruiting top players is a 2-3 year gig now. Few OL play their first year and only some their second year. And we needed a pipeline at every position on the o-line, not just one.
Yes, it takes time
Few freshmen QBs are ready to play no matter how talented they are
McCaffrey came in as a tooth pick
The ones who do play are way better off playing with a veteran team than the youngest team in the country as we already had without him playing
You're writing off Peters too fast
He'd want to be dead ...
It's hard to say what happened though with only one accuser and no physical proof. I'm neither condemning nor absolving him
We really made a bad hire culturally and system wise. Bringing a spread in the Big Ten was a bad idea.
I'm not saying he didn't flame out, he did. Just saying it wasn't just on him
But good coaches like Harbaugh always have a way to convince the team they're the underdog and they are going to lose if they don't bring it to that game
We were the youngest team in the country and every team loses a quarter of their team every year. How else would you decide?
Rate the teams pre-season and start the tournament!
LOL
They did my second path. They lost to Auburn who lost to Georgia who they beat to take it back
But it will impact them down the line
But he's a RS freshman and he just hasn't played that much.
He was before the concussion hitting way more open receivers than Speight or O'Korn.
He was way worse in the Bowl. I'm not saying he was still concussed, but I am thinking the concussion set him back in preparation.
I think Patterson would be great for Peters if he can play because otherwise Peters is going to have huge pressure this year
I agree with you if it's about this year. We were 8-5, period. I agree with that.
When we're looking at next year, it's a factor though. Youngest team in the country was 8-5, that means we're probably on the right track. Deeper analysis gives more indication of that
He'll do Shea, Brandon, Dylan and the freshmen and play the best one that comes out the end of the pipe
They do look also at players the team is losing to graduation, players coming back from injury and recruiting classes as well.
But mostly yeah, I agree. Still, what else would they have to go on at this point?
when Harbaugh was hired.
I don't get how it's just forgotten now.
We were the youngest team in the country this year. Yet we had the #3 defense. We also showed a lot of promise/ability in the run game. Even if Patterson isn't approved, Peters showed promise this year and is maturing.
Even Emil Ekiyor mentioned that when he decommitted. He said that wasn't the issue, we have such a young team and we'll be fine
Seriously? One of the top D's in the country? And the O will get at least marginally better.
If we don't get Shea approved for next year, still, people keep forgetting that Peters was playing decently and improving before the Outback Bowl. Clearly the concussion affected his development.
13 seems about right to me
by what ranking service you look at
...by a knockout ...
Glad everyone hasn't stopped analyzing rather than just being emotional
Some of the recruits are rated 4 star by some rating services and 3 stars by others
It would be incredibly difficult to hold your own county because you either need to go undefeated or the team that takes it from you has to lose it to someone and you have to beat them later in the year and hold it
The rating is clearly about the defense, which is awesome.
For sure you're right that our O needs to improve, but if it only gets to servicable then we would be a threat.
Particularly think about how badly our O left our D on the field and put them in bad positions. Particularly since our strength was our run game and we could burn a lot of clock.
I'm not by any means saying I'm thinking championship next year. But we are way ahead of most teams because of our D, which should be even better
It's been a while since I lived there
Hope it wasn't serious like the death of a parent or anything, but I'm glad to hear that about him personally. I think he has a great future ahead of him
They beat Toledo in their bowl game. I didn't map it back but somehow it's going to be a chain back to Eastern Michigan
I thought it would be about a graduate transfer question though. It does seem hard to think he'd leave after three years for the NFL.
I don't see any reason he'd leave. I can't imagine he won't start next year
I'm thinking it's still academics? I've never heard any character issue rumors about him. He sounds like a good kid. While they aren't usually specific about injuries, they seem to generally acknowledge them.
... Inspector Clouseau ...
1) You take every county in the country and assign it as owned by the closest FBS school. So for example, Washtenau County would be owned by Michigan
2) In week two, every team that wins takes over all the counties owned by the team they beat
3) Repeat this for every step of the season
So for Washtenau County,
Michigan's first loss was to MSU on October 7
MSU won on October 14 and October 21 and held it
On October 28, Northwestern beat MSU and took it
Northwestern won out from there so they held it at the end of the year
It's probably more based on our defense. If we just get our offense up to a B then with our offense we'd be a threat for sure to win it all.
To your point, Patterson plays into getting our offense up to decent
They beat Michigan State and then won out from there. Michigan State beat us.
He was a low three star. You're correct that he walked on. He did have scholarship offers from lesser schools. That happens at Michigan sometimes too that we get walk ons who have offers from lower tier schools
But I'd feel sorrier for them if they'd played a better out of conference schedule
It's alreay way ahead of any Harbaugh class at Michigan at this point.
It's probably more about playing time than positions available for 3/4 stars. With two mega classes in a row and few upper classmen, we only lose a few players in 2017 and 2018. That means they'd be competing with starters and multi-year starters for the next few years.
With 5 stars, it's probably a combination of luck as well as wanting to see the results on the field. 2019 players may feel by the time they sign that's less of an issue because they will have the chance to see results before they actually sign.
Remember what happened to Hoke's 2015 class. It was spectacular, then we lost all the top players when we tanked that year and it was increasingly obvious he'd be canned. Of course they didn't know Harbaugh would end up coming
I was thinking about that too.
The objection will be that the good conferences will feel their top two teams get a harder playoff game into the final eight than other teams do.
I'm not saying that is a veto, just it's the objection that will come up FWIW
That just because someone is a QB guru, that means they can teach anyone to be an elite quarterback in college football.
Again being a season that was pointed to as our down year ... before Harbaugh took over ... I don't see the huge issue with 8-5.
I totally expect us to get better the next several years, it's no blank check. But it is what was realisticly expected this year. Harbaugh can't go back and re-recruit the 2013, 2014 and 2015 years before he took over
We may not again under Harbaugh.
I still don't get how with everyone pointing to this season when Harbaugh was hired, it's a disaster now as if it came out of the blue
... Troy is better than LSU?
Hmm ... me either ...
Wisconsin as well.
Not that we don't want 4/5 star, but there's a lot of 3 star talent out there for one year after two big hauls.
Also, I was looking back at our 2016 and 2017 classes and a lot of 3 stars seem to be in the wings for playing time. Our coaches can evaluate talent.
Anyone who's knocking a 3* D pickup right now with Don Brown's record really isn't paying attention
While I like eight, the thing for me is that if we stay at four, conference championships should be rated a lot higher than they are now
LOL.
Yes, it is. I agree that eight is the right number. I always liked eight from the beginning. Sixteen would be four extra games, that's just too many. Particularly since I doubt they will cancel the conference championship games
I think the "National Champion" should be the team that earned it on the field, not in the selection committee meeting room
Because he thinks he'll be in the final 4 every year anyway
... the southern teams would ever agree to that?
I'd love to get Bama up here in January, LOL
Half our team are 4 and 5 stars, right?
Also, you compete with OSU and Alabama by winning and building a rep and continuing to sign better players as you win. It's not an instantaneous process
That's going to be an issue particularly for younger players who haven't spent as many years in strength and conditioning programs as the upper classmen.
I agree with you though that Harbaugh did see it as an issue of course though since as you accurately point out he changed the strength and conditioning coach after saying we need to get stronger.
Just saying there are multiple factors
We did sign Ruiz, Filiaga, Stuber and Honniford last year and Hayes and Mayfield this year. And Hudson is going to the O-line.
With Hamilton, it's really hard to hate on a kid who gets into Stanford with a free ride.
Newsome was just an unfortunate thing. We'd be a lot better off with him for sure.
It's unfortunate Bradeson was pressed into service as early as he was rather than spending a year in the weight room and practice field. He's not been all bad, hopefully he starts to turn the corner now that he's going into his junior year.
I don't think the cupboard is as bare as you do. But I do agree that overall our recruiting hasn't been as effective on the o-line as it has been at most other positions.
Also, if Ja'raymond Hall saw playing time in his future, I think he'd have stayed. He doesn't see the cupboard as bare either.
Yes, our passing game sucked. You accurately pointed that out, but also said it was "play calling."
Why would we keep calling plays that we know are likely to fail? How do you fix that with "play calling?"
We're still finalizing the class.
Also, he has two very differnet choices since GT is recruiting him at QB. If he wants to be a QB, that's the type of offense he should be in.
I hope he decides if we do have the slot that being a swiss army knife for us is a better long term opportunity
I agree with your analysis on skill versus Big Ten teams.
But size is where I disagree. They would get beat up week after week paying a Big Ten schedule.
Auburn is a good team and they deserved the win, but it was one game once, not week after week of battling guys 30 pounds bigger week after week
OK. But there wasn't a ton of starting experience on either side of the ball, I'm not sure that really means anything.
The O was particularly hurt by O-line, QB and WR inexperience.
Also, D's gel in general faster than O's. That's evident every year in camp