things go poorly
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|9 hours 11 min ago||What have you seen from him||
What have you seen from him that makes you think he'll be a great coach? Not trying to be an ass, just curious.
|11 hours 49 min ago||History isn't on your side||
Also there's no shot in hell that we're losing only three games over the next three seaons combined. The only time that's happened in the recent history for Michigan was in the early 70s under Bo. We have a loooooonng way to go before we're there again and given the changes in the college football and the US in general I don't know if we'll ever get to that point again.
|11 hours 50 min ago||Until they can win on the road, I don't believe it||
The thing is, we said the exact same things about UConn last year. UConn was just as bad as Rutgers is. You can't deny that Michigan has been just awful on the road under Hoke and terrible teams always seem to get it together when they are playing Michigan. So given all of that history, I just can't see Rutgers being an easy win. Barely beating UConn surprised me. Losing to Rutgers wouldn't.
|11 hours 58 min ago||There haven't been signs though||
Look, I'm with you on the it takes time front, but when it comes to coaches success does happen overnight because you're a good coach. And if its not overnight, its in 1-2 seasons. We're in season four and its just as bad as seasons 2 and 3.
At some point you have to have some sort of indication that things are headed in the right direction to allow someone to have the opportunity to continue in that direction. And there haven't been any signs of improvement on the team. Its a different excuse every year, and I just don't see us on an upward trajectory. We look like a team that's going to be 8-4 or 9-3.
So while its nice to fantasize about a time when we're consistently winning double digit games a year, I just don't see it under Hoke. The man has had two seasons in his entire head coaching career where he's won more than 10. If you're expecting him suddenly blossom into a top level coach, I think you're going to be disappointed.
|12 hours 43 min ago||You think his job is secure?||
I would say Michigan is definitely not fine. They've been below their own standards for quite a while and this team hasn't shown any sort of "getting stronger" at any point in the last couple of seasons.
I mean goddamn people, are we really content with 8-4 being OK?
|12 hours 47 min ago||The precipice||
If he's not on the precipice of losing his job, he's certainly left his final base camp and is on the way to the summit.
|12 hours 49 min ago||I think you're underestimating this||
I think you're underestimating how high-level athletics (or any high-level job for that matter) works. If things are to the point where a coaching search needs to begin, Hoke will already know his job is in jeopardy, the players will know things are bad, and recruits will certainly know things are bad.
If we're to that point, there is no undermining the program because the program is already in jeopardy and a properly done coaching search is the best course of action to save it. What Michigan did last the last two times they had to find a coach is a perfect example of what not to do. Hopefully, they've learned from that and would actually entertain a coaching search behind the scenes so its a quick out with the old, in with the new transition.
|12 hours 59 min ago||Biggest "must win"||
I think "Biggest must win game" is probably more along the lines of what the OP was going for. Because you're right, if we win its no big deal. Business as usual. But if we lose? The blood is in the water at that point.
|13 hours 1 min ago||Depressing to think that way, but yeah...||
MSU and Ohio State are givens, but its depressing that you'd need to pencil in Rutgers as a loss as well. Given how bad this team is on the road, that game has to be a coin-flip at best.
I mean, fuck...Rutgers man. That would be a Hall of Fame level soul dong punch.
|13 hours 4 min ago||You could argue that, but you'd be wrong||
I see where the OP is coming from. Given what's happened over Hoke's tenure, yeah, you could argue this is the biggest game of his career. He's hanging on by a thread here on the ol' job security front. If he loses to a bottom tier Pac-12 team at home, then that bodes really poorly for the rest of the season, and I just don't see him recovering from it.
|4 days 7 hours ago||Doesn't even need to be a||
Doesn't even need to be a second SEC team they lose out to. Four spots for five conferences.
|4 days 7 hours ago||You think the Big Ten is the||
You think the Big Ten is the fourth best conference? May I have some of what you're drinking?
|4 days 12 hours ago||We match up even with them||
We match up even with them this year too. And they are still probably in the bottom third of the PAC-12
|4 days 13 hours ago||Especially when both teams||
Especially when both teams have a new OC. Utah is going to be a very tough game for Michigan
|5 days 2 hours ago||Utah is starting to look iffy||
This Utah game is starting to look like all sorts of problems for Michigan. They've scored 50+ in both of their games. Our offense is going to need to score and score often I think.
And watching this Rutgers game, I'm also becoming terrified of losing on the road to Rutgers. How awful would that be?
|5 days 3 hours ago||No way||
Your three contenders for the playoffs are MSU (blown out by Oregon), Ohio State (ugly loss at home to Va. Tech) and Wisconsin (loss to LSU). Of those three, only Wisconsin really has a chance unless Oregon runs the table and that's MSU's only loss. And in that scenario, Oregon is in, FSU is probably in, and an SEC team is definitely in. So you're left picking between someone like Oklahoma or Baylor and MSU. And their resume is going to look a lot better than MSU's.
I'm telling you, the Big Ten is going to be left out of the playoffs more than any other Power 5. They are that bad right now.
|5 days 3 hours ago||Big Ten is always going to be #5||
Unless they have an undefeated team, the Big Ten is always going to be the 5th team on the outside looking in when it comes to the playoffs. The stregth (or lack thereof) of schedule is going to kill every good team.
And your mid-tier ACC teams are a lot better than your mid-tier Big Ten teams. Did you already forget that Va. Tech beat Ohio State at home last week?
|5 days 3 hours ago||Takes both doesn't it?||
For Michigan to truely be elite, they need the rest of the Big Ten to be good. Look at Ohio State, they've rolled through their schedule (last 5 or so games excluded of course) the last couple of seasons, but I don't know if many would call them truly elite on the national stage. The knock is always that they beat up on shitty Big Ten teams.
This is one of the things that pisses me off about Michigan and Big Ten fans. They are way too short sighted when it comes to the conference. You should never, ever want the rest of the conference to "burn to the ground." The conference needs respect in the worst way possible, so you should root for the Wisconsins and MSUs to beat LSU and Oregon. What's good for them is good for Michigan. Because if the conference keeps going down the road its going, Michigan -- or any other Big Ten program for that matter -- can't build an elite program on a foundation of ashes.
|5 days 5 hours ago||Instead of ingesting them,||
Instead of ingesting them, you should sell those drugs you're taking. They seem like good stuff.
|5 days 9 hours ago||Do we need an advantage||
Do we need an advantage against Miami of Ohio?
|5 days 12 hours ago||If its cyclical, it won't be 1-2 years||
Here's where it get depressing, if you're relying on the cyclical nature of things to return the Big Ten to its past glory, you're going to be waiting a lot longer than 1-2 years. Think more along the lines of 10-20 years. These cycles tend to last for about a decade. The Big Ten had theirs in the 1980s, the 90s probably belonged to the Big 12, and the 2000s have been the SECs. Like I said elsewhere, I think the Pac-12 is positioned to be next. Lots of good QBs, lots of good talent and coaches...the pieces are there.
The Big Ten meanwhile is firmly #5 out of the five power 5 conferences, and the CFB landscape for the next decade only has room for 4 playoff teams. So I'd say for the better part of that next decade the Big Ten is going to be on the outside looking in more than any other conference when it comes to the playoffs. And that's really bad for the conference and recruiting.
And given the way they've pissed away the financial advantage they had with the BTN (they had more money than anyone for a while and could have bought every top coach in CFB...but did jack shit with that money) and the geographical disadvatage they now have working against them (people are leaving the midwest and going south), I think its really, really doubtful the Big Ten returns to relevance any time in the next 10-15 years if ever. Its that bleak.
|5 days 13 hours ago||Meant to say it was the Big||
Meant to say it was the Big 12 before it was the SEC. Can't edit from my phone.
|5 days 13 hours ago||It's all cyclical. Before||
It's all cyclical. Before everyone was big on the SEC it was the Big Ten. And if the SEC doesn't do well this year you might see it switch to the Pac12
|5 days 13 hours ago||You're out of your mind. Kids||
You're out of your mind. Kids didn't start going to the SEC because ESPN was talking about them. They went there because there's more talent in the south, it's warm, and they all dedicate themselves to football from top to bottom. Most of the Big Ten still treats their football programs like hobbies.
|5 days 14 hours ago||OK isn't good enough. The||
OK isn't good enough. The meet fact were claiming moral victory by saying we played "OK" tells you all you need to know about how bad things have gotten.
|5 days 14 hours ago||Deep threat doesn't matter if||
Deep threat doesn't matter if he doesn't have time to get deep. We need an OL that can give WRs time to get open first. And then possibly a QB that doesn't melt down and make bad decisions.
|5 days 14 hours ago||What bias? Honestly what do||
What bias? Honestly what do you want them to say about the Big Ten? It's been a shitty conference for the better part of a decade. Meanwhile the SEC has won 7 titles and the other conferences at least field teams that are competitive with top teams. If it wasn't for a massive alumni base that drives ratings the Big Ten wouldn't be talked about at all.
|5 days 14 hours ago||Well when it comes to being||
Well when it comes to being past their prime at least Corso has something in common with the Big Ten.
|5 days 14 hours ago||"Winner" Hoke is not. Corso||
"Winner" Hoke is not. Corso was off on that too. He was a .500 coach at SDSU and Ball State. That's not exactly a winner.
|1 week 1 day ago||But it hasn't really happened before||
There's never been a stretch of this many mediocre seasons in Michigan history since like maybe Bump Elliot in the 60's. So since Bo came on board and Michigan really became the Michigan everyone remembers, there's never really been a stretch like this.