- Member for
- 3 years 5 days
|46 weeks 5 days ago||Why are fans down on Hoke,||
Why are fans down on Hoke, cuz the offense is getting worse.
|46 weeks 5 days ago||History||
One of the most common whines from other teams fans and *cough* ESPN bloggers regarding Michigan fans is our propensity to point at history. That we all know we won the first Rose Bowl and got it cancelled (temporarily). That we know we are the winningest program in history. That we all talk about our past - and these same people use it to mock us when we're down.
|48 weeks 1 day ago||It's progress||
No one is going to suggest this is anything but a team with deeply exploit(ed)(able) flaws. Still, what's the one thing you look for in a great kid? Grit. Willingness to keep going. This team has had a number of opportunities this season to fold up - and they keep fighting.
|48 weeks 6 days ago||Lets get rid of Hoke! It||
Lets get rid of Hoke! It can't be worse, right? We can't end up with a guy taking us sub-.500 instead of over .700 for 3 years, right? We can't find ourselves in an even bigger hole, right?!?
|49 weeks 1 day ago||Bo had 100 scholarships.||
Bo had 100 scholarships. Hell of a lot easier to dominate when you can take that many kids off the board.
|49 weeks 1 day ago||Lets try this again ...||
Lets try this again ... WORST. DEFENSES (plural). IN. SCHOOL. HISTORY.
|49 weeks 1 day ago||Worst team in history||
So wait, is this the lowest technological state in human history? Is this the worst economic year in US history? Is M the losingest team in FBS history?
|49 weeks 1 day ago||RichRod recruited us into the||
RichRod recruited us into the O-line debacle we see out there this season.
|49 weeks 1 day ago||Rod's best production with||
Rod's best production with Denard, 7 wins, and gave us the 3 historically worst defenses in program history while recruiting stupidly and FAR too many crappy kids (many good ones but too too many crappy ones).
|49 weeks 1 day ago||You've just pinpointed the||
You've just pinpointed the key issue - worse than Borges.
|49 weeks 1 day ago||Rod cried and begged for his||
Rod cried and begged for his job after the worst three years in program history. You may not like hearing "we failed to execute" but it's the 100% truth.
|49 weeks 5 days ago||Rod 15-22, Hoke 25-9||
Coaches are paid to win, not make excuses.
|3 years 5 days ago||Look at how MSU played||
Look at how MSU played yesterday. If they repeat that vs. Wisc + @ Neb, they lose 2 SOUNDLY. Then UMich is back in control of its own destiny to play for the B1G.
Denard has nothing to do w/ how well the running backs play, and we're not getting enough. Give him backs that can get another yard per play, so that defences can't cue all on him for running, and see if he can hit more lanes.
The loss yesterday was not all on Denard, he went back to pass and the O-line got manhandled. The passes weren't great, but give him another second or two and let's see if they were better.
"one dimensional" is a failure to respect that Denard has never been asked to be a good sound fundamental passer at this level - give him a chance. He was forced to beat ND in the air, and regardless of what ND did, he succeeded. There's a lot to hope for, and he is capable of winning the league.
|3 years 5 days ago||Just to be clear||
Just to be clear - Rod forced 3-3-5 on a coach who'd never taught it before, and didn't recruit to support any defence. It is appropriate to say neither DC made the situation better, but it's still 3 years straight of record setting bad defenses. Rod's reply was that he didn't spend time on that side of the ball, that's what he had a DC for. Thanks Rod, then why aren't you an OC and let a real head coach worry about the whole team?
|3 years 5 days ago||oh wait, it's you again,||
oh wait, it's you again, didn't read the poster... So you're capable of intelligent thought after all, huzzah!
Feel free to tag me down for being off topic... I just wanted to acknowledge that I did realize after the fact.
|3 years 5 days ago||To start off with - my issue||
To start off with - my issue w/ the OP is that he's advocating an idea that is patently stupid (running Denard 40 times for 12 games straight is not only impossible (he would be broken long before he got there) but stupid (we wouldn't win more games)).
My other issue is that he can't defend this position, he keeps coming back to me calling him names. Sticks and stones and all that, make a point, make me wrong by NOT being a whiny coaching bigot, don't worry about what a guy he thinks (and okay probably is) is an asshole idiot thinks of him.
My last issue is that he's not reading, he's just ranting. Which in and of itself is probably reason enough I should've let it drop. He's clearly overly emotional, and not going to be able to think about what I'm writing. So yeah, I should've been the bigger man there, but I wasn't, I'll have to work on that.
You make a major mistake sir in using the term "people like you" - assuming you understand anything about me as an individual by merging me with a group you assume I subscribe to based on 4 forum posts... wow.
You liked Rod's public persona, that's your opinion, and I understand why you say that, he was much more colorful than most of Michigan's coaches. Hoke's not hired to entertain me, he's hired to win football games. What would Lloyd have said after Mesko's failed fake field goal? I predict he would have said something along the lines of, 'we saw something, and it didn't work." He _NEVER_ threw a kid under the bus for a game decision. That's what I mean about classy. I don't want to get into relative skill sets of inherited player base, it's highly subjective - but let's just say Rod came in and made excuses for 3 years about empty cupboards, Hoke came in and is 6-1 so far. Neither one had the skill sets on the field they might want, but one whined, while the other won.
For Elite programs - you talk about national championships as the only thing that defines elite... That's fine. I will choose to disagree. Michigan is 7th in win % in the 30 years the OP supposedly has had to "endure" (not once helped by Rod), Michigan is 8th in that span in total wins. We've won league championships in what is (I hope even to you) without question an elite league every 2.5 seasons during that span. Teams flash and then they go away until they come back. That works for some, I'd rather know every year my team will compete. That's a pretty simple disagreement though, and I'm ok with your opinion.
I worry that chasing subjective championships leads to dirty programs. You talk about Carroll (left before his program got hammered), Jim Tressel (just quit after cheating scandal) - if it takes being dirty to win, I don't want to win, but thanks. Michigan wants to win every game, does win more than almost anybody, and pre-Rod had a legitimate chance to win every time they took the field. I don't know why you think that's not elite.
I don't want you to take your fanhood elsewhere - you make legitimate points and have worthwhile arguments. I disagree, but so what, it takes lots of opinions to make the best decisions. I want the person making a patently stupid argument who's cussing at me like I've somehow offended his honor for pointing out that his opinion is in fact patently stupid to stop being a Michigan fan. He makes this program weaker. I don't care if someone prefers Rod, I care about having fans who represent Michigan well - which they don't. I hope you don't lump yourself in with the OP again - just because you prefer the hope of what Rod was doesn't mean you're the same type of fan as them.
Last, for yesterday - Ok, OSU vs. MSU shouldn't be the only standard, but look at what MSU did to Denard last year if you want further justification. Let's be clear - I wanted a run on 4th down. I wanted more Denard runs. I think Borges blew it yesterday - and have posted that above. But assuming that running Denard 40 times would magically guarantee a win is just not good thinking.
|3 years 5 days ago||Valid - I admit I let my||
Valid - I admit I let my temper get away from me.
The kids playing now, a lot of them anyway, are Rod's recruits, and are "honest kids" - and I appreciate all of them. They're Michigan men, no argument.
What I think I was trying to get at with that comment, without successfully saying it, is that, going back over the last few decades - over the course of the 30 years that the OP has had to "endure", is that teams that have become consistent national title winners have almost all ended up in some level of NCAA heat. Me, give me a team that controls what it can control - whether or not it wins the Big 10. That will be enough. We will win some national titles, we will have our share of top 5/10 ranking finishes. Trying for subjective titles is a pipe dream that leads to decisions I am proud my team has never made.
As far as Rod's style not working... Allow me to clarify slightly. I have nothing against the spread, or even the 3-3-5 per se. I have a problem with the way Rod put himself (his style) above the team. He came into Michigan with a team built for a pro style. Instead of adapting and figuring out how to make use of the skills around him, he alienated players and forced us into something, and gave us something we couldn't be proud of. He whined about "empty cupboards" instead of adapting to the skills at hand. Then he got to year 2, still couldn't adapt, brought in a defensive coordinator who himself couldn't adapt to the style Rod couldn't get away from, and still couldn't get us to a bowl game. He threw kids under the bus for decisions (Mesko's punt). Then last year he had little left in the way of excuses and gave us a team that got embarassed against good competition, and had to win in shoot outs against even FCS UMass.
"Michigan football" in my opinion - has nothing whatsoever to do with a given style, system or format - it has to do with playing intelligently, playing great fundamentals (fundamentals that don't change no matter what style a team uses), and being able to adapt and out think opponents in order to win football games. Jan. 1 '98. Lloyd wasn't scoring on WSU with the offense that had worked well enough all year, so we threw the 2 longest (in the air) passes all year, and got the points up. It wasn't Lloyd's instincts, but we did what we had to. My issue with Rod isn't the spread or the 3-3-5, it's that he gave us poor fundamental football, wouldn't adapt to the players or to situations, and no - those things won't work in the SEC, or in most conferences.
If you want me to admit I went too far, yeah, you're probably right, but I stand by my pleasure that Rod is gone, and my belief that we will be a better team under Hoke.
|3 years 5 days ago||yeah, shouldn't post a||
yeah, shouldn't post a second, but I just reread, and I'm still stinging on the game, so I'll lament by poking holes in your words -
"You don't know which single play is going to knock him out of the game."
That's why running him 40 times can't work. Every run has a potential to injure, and thus a 40 carry game puts those chances into the 99% range. Your plan doesn't work in any sane sensibility, and history proved it. Why else did he miss time in almost every game last year? I don't need to, "Check (my) ... memory" sexual or otherwise. He didn't make it to 40 carries because he COULDN'T. He's not superhuman, he's just very talented.
"WHY ... are we continuously putting Denard in positions that don't suit his skill set?"
Three reasons. 1. because being one-dimensional doesn't work. OSU vs. MSU proved that. 2. because Denard wants to win. Given that #1 is fact - then only running him means we lose more. 3. Just because something isn't one's specialty doesn't mean it's not within their skill set. Clearly logic isn't your specialty, and yet you keep replying.
"before he had a legit chance to win with his guys."
Whiny excuses. The cupboard wasn't empty. Good coaches win, period. Rod is a coward. Reality was there, he stood his ground on his system that was't working and whined for 3 years about getting the right kids for his system. You're being a hypocrite again, btw - you're blaming Borges for not being successful w/o giving him a "legit chance". Hoke doesn't have the right kids for his system, and is winning. OMG how could that have happened? You mean a coach doesn't need 4 years of whiny excuses before we can start expecting something out of him? We're still in a decent position to challenge for the Big Ten championship. Did Rod finish in the top half of the league any of his 3 years? Good coaches win. Everything else is excuses.
"I ... hate people like you"
That the only things you know about me is that I have better reading comprehension than you and that I don't suffer bad fans (and that I disagree with you) - I have to assume you're just trying to help me prove my point now. I said you're a coaching bigot. You're not willing to give Borges or Hoke a chance, you want Rod back after 1 loss. I called you whiny and you're throwing f-bomb strewn temper tantrums at me. Names are only inappropriate if they're inaccurate - otherwise they're just adjectives.
"being an elite program"
We ARE an elite program sir. It's fans like you that don't understand what that term means that brought Rod in, and cost us the bowl streak, and got us penalized by the NCAA, and made me lose faith in my team. During my time as a fan I never once went into a game expecting to lose. Under Rich I didn't start out that way, but especially after the first year, and as things continued decending, what did Rod give me to expect besides to assume every 3rd and short against us would convert, and be surprised when they didn't. To expect that I would be embarassed by our tackling and fundamentals. To expect to lose, embarassingly at times, including his only bowl - if you went into that game thinking anything besides "please don't let it be lopsided" you weren't watching that season. Rod made us a joke sir - and if that's what you want, then I repeat my other post - go elsewhere, you don't deserve to be a Wolverine.
|3 years 5 days ago||all the amazing ignorance||
all the amazing ignorance spewed forth, and it all comes down to one thing. Rod will never coach for this school again, so go pick a different school to root for, Michigan will be better off for it. There's lots of schools that love Rod's style, and play in leagues where they don't play defense so it could even work. Good luck to you,
You endured? You endured 30 of the greatest years of college football ever with the greatest program in college football. How awful that you had to endure conference championships in 82, 86, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 97, 98, 00, 03 and 04 - one every 2.5 years, HOW AWFUL. How terrible that you had to suffer through those 26 straight bowl appearances, part of the second longest streak ever. Such pain that you had to watch Michigan be able to compete with anyone, anytime - there was never an assumed loss. SHAME on Blue for only giving you two Heisman's and kids you could be proud of, and a program beyond reproach.
Then in came Rod. Who drove off a Heisman caliber quarterback because he wouldn't even try to adapt. Who gave us the three worst defenses in school history because he wouldn't consider anything but his own system. Who put himself above, "The team, the team, the team." Who failed us sir, FAILED US, the fans. He whined too, and made excuses, and didn't deserve to be here. But at least he was clearly your coach - he thought just by wanting something to be true he could make it so.
If that's what you want sir, then go be a fan elsewhere. I'll sit and watch my team play honest ball, with honest kids the right way. It's impossible to prove, and so what, but I'll tell you now, Michigan will win a national championship again playing Michigan football before it ever would have with Rod at the helm.
If you've really "endured" 30 years of Blue, then it implies you're what in your 40's? 50's? whatever, you're old enough to know better, and to have a little more self-respect, that last post was really quite difficult to endure reading.
You do get the fact that Denard was out of almost every game last season for injury, yes? That he couldn't endure the pounding he took with the carries he got, yes? So I'm going to ask again - in what reality could we win when we'd have to have the fullback literally throwing his broken body forward towards the line of scrimmage to make it to 40?
But hey, what do I know, I think winning more conference championships than anybody, more consistently, more victorys than anybody, more national championships than anybody, 6th most NFL players, gives the Blue a certain amount of right to make up its own mind about the best course to accomplish our goals.
|3 years 5 days ago||"Commenting about something||
"Commenting about something you don't like is the purpose of having a forum." Well, you're wrong again, its purpose is for intelligent discussion - if you just want to vent your spleen without anyone commenting, go outside and vent to the universe. But on that one we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Most of your reply here is whining about me disagreeing with you, and calling me a name (bully). Hypocrite much? Defend your opinion, I'm willing to listen - hell maybe you're seeing something I don't. I'm not always right, but at least I have a reason for my opinion before I put it out there - you're mad because I asked you to understand forum implies comment AND reply.
Our offense was anemic last year against anything resembling a quality defense, as it would have been this year. Our defense was unforgivable last year, and (opinion) gave me no reason to hope it would have gotten any better with another year. So what you're saying is that you'd like more of last year? Defend that, please.
Here's my opinion - Borges blew it today, he had a bad game. He's also a better offensive mind than Rod, and gives us a better chance in the future against EVERY team, when we have more kids to suit. Play today's game 5 times - we're going to come out on top 2 of them - Sparty this year is a more complete team (even if, probably because they include dirty criminals) - but they did try to hand us the game. Play it under Rod's staff, we come out 0. Play it 20 times and we might win once w/ Rod. Thanks, I'll stick w/ Hoke.
Let's get back to your initial opinion - you'd like to become a one-dimensional offense where we expose our best weapon to 40+ potentially devastating hits every game for a whole season... In what black hole universe do you exist where you think this could possibly win us more games?!?
So thanks, I'll opt not to take up that last suggestion of yours.
|3 years 5 days ago||Coaching Bigot||
"trying to keep an open mind...".