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|11 hours 39 min ago||This thread disturbs me||
This thread disturbs me deeply.
Hoke "disregards player safety"; MGoBloggers write haikus about a student athlete's concussion. Seriously, what?
|12 hours 57 min ago||In what system? Borges'||
In what system? Borges' incoherent, identity-less nonsense?
|15 hours 8 min ago||You know, Al's offense didn't||
You know, Al's offense didn't permit a great support of teaching of the fundamentals. But he scored.
Nuss's offense does permit support in teaching of the fundamentals. But he hasn't scored.
If scoring is the point of offense, Borges's offense was more successful.
If development is the point of our program, Nuss's will be more successful.
|15 hours 12 min ago||This is why I want Brandon||
This is why I want Brandon gone first. Can Hoke be successful without Brandon? I want to know.
He hasn't quite been successful with Brandon.
|15 hours 14 min ago||Our best OL is a true||
Our best OL is a true freshman? Sorry, but Mason Cole has done some good things and some bad things, just like everyone else.
He'll be a good lineman. But he's pretty much par for our OL, if not subpar (in non-golf terminology).
|1 day 13 hours ago||Not Borges' staff. Hoke's||
Not Borges' staff. Hoke's staff, with some possible Borges recruits. Many have been with Hoke since Ball State.
|2 days 20 hours ago||It's a gotcha question. It's||
It's a gotcha question. It's a headliner question. He dodged it. That's PR. Love it or hate it.
|3 days 1 hour ago||No, I'm not kidding.So, given||
No, I'm not kidding.
|3 days 10 hours ago||That's fair, but unlikely||
That's fair, but unlikely unless the university finds itself or one of its protocols to have gone wrong. Which brings me back to #4, where I ask for specific symptoms of concussion that Shane exhibited.
|3 days 10 hours ago||He wasn't, though. I think we||
He wasn't, though. I think we all know he wasn't. So that brings me to question 4. What symptoms of a concussion, specifically, did he exhibit?
|3 days 10 hours ago||So, can you answer #4? What||
So, can you answer #4? What symptoms, specifically, can we point to to say that Shane was concussed? "Wobbly" and "off" are not rigorously symptomatic of concussions. They can just as well be symptomatic of pain.
|3 days 11 hours ago||Let me start by saying that I||
Let me start by saying that I was sickened watching Morris yesterday. When he got hit, it was completely dirty, and the other player shoulda been ejected. Morris should have been pulled way earlier for the leg. It shouldn't even have gotten that far. I think it was a horrible mistake by the coaches--even though Nuss clearly tried to get Morris off the field one play sooner--and watching it made my stomach turn.
|3 days 13 hours ago||Will probably more highly||
Will probably more highly attended than the next Michigan stadium home game.
|3 days 14 hours ago||Via #1, you might be right to||
Via #1, you might be right to argue that it would be in our best interests to fire Hoke.
But everyone else is arguing from some kind of feigned moral authority with limited information. I don't consider that to be worthwhile.
|3 days 14 hours ago||> this "holier-than-thou"||
> this "holier-than-thou" bullshit is supremely obnoxious.
> We're not all terrible people. We're not even mostly terrible people. You're wrong
I won't be responding to any more of your comments.
|3 days 17 hours ago||Perhaps more articulate than||
Perhaps more articulate than I have put it. But I agree completely.
That's not to say we can't jump down Hoke's throat, just that the way this is being talked about seems to be jumping to conclusions.
|3 days 18 hours ago||Because I think that if we||
Because I think that if we had won the game, all of this would be an after-thought. A moment of, "Huh, that was weird, wasn't it?" instead of a firable offense. Because we lost, we're eager to find reasons why Hoke sucks and needs to be fired.
If Hoke were to go undefeated the rest of the season (improbable), 75% of us would forget about the shit that went down yesterday. Yeah, you'd have 25% cling to hating Hoke because he made the wrong call for a player's safety, and obviously, there's no way that we go undefeated the rest of the season, but I'm just trying to inject a little bit of "correction for context" into this meltdown. That's all.
For that reason, my original post is more about what the staff can do to try and effect an ultimate turnaround, and less about Morris. That was brought up solely in the comments.
|3 days 18 hours ago||I appreciate your more||
I appreciate your more measured and thoughtful responses.
I won't defend Hoke's postgame comments, and I won't defend the idea that Hoke is always as with it as we'd like him to be. I don't disagree with you on your finer points. We only disagree in broader conclusion, it seems.
|3 days 18 hours ago||When has Hoke ever had an||
When has Hoke ever had an overarching reputation for keeping seriously injured players in to the detriment of those players?
Maybe he played Funchess once or twice when he shouldn't have. Probably Gardner should have sat OSU.
But overall, the reputation this staff has with injuries in the Hoke tenure has been to be exceedingly cautious. I recall multiple press conferences when Hoke used to discuss injuries where he'd say that a player had been cleared by the doctors, but they were gonna keep holding him out to make sure he'd be 100%.
One begins to wonder if it is indeed the fact that we as fans put too much pressure on Hoke to do #2 that causes him to be less sensitive to #1.
|3 days 19 hours ago||The one possible confounding||
The one possible confounding variable that I see here is that the refs would then have to admit their failure to make the appropriate targeting call.
|3 days 19 hours ago||Hell, if I'm wrong about||
Hell, if I'm wrong about Denard, doesn't that do more to go against the narrative that Hoke "doesn't give a damn about his player's health"? Has Hoke ever had a broad reputation to keep players in through really bad and obvious injuries?
So, fine, I may have been wrong about Denard. I think I was mentally conflating different events in the past few years.
But suggesting that the experts on the sideline wouldn't have seen concussed symptoms or wouldn't have reported them to Hoke or that Hoke would've ignored those reports seems silly.
|3 days 19 hours ago||That's fair enough. I'll||
That's fair enough. I'll state it unequivocally: Morris should've been taken out long before the targeting hit, and definitely after the targeting hit, too. There were many problems involved in the decision to leave him in, and it should make us angry and disgusted. It makes me angry and disgusted.
But if people on this forum believe that their vantage points in their living rooms and their expertise are superior to the vantage points and expertise on the sideline, then I think that they're completely foolish. I do not, with the information I currently have as an outsider to the football program, see it as tantamount to a firable offense.
|3 days 19 hours ago||I have never tried to "excuse||
I have never tried to "excuse shit."
In essence, I just maintained the position that the decisions made were not tantamount to firing in the way that other people have suggested.
|3 days 19 hours ago||I wish to add to this comment||
I wish to add to this comment to reflect that I am not defending the handling of this situation. I simply don't see it as tantamount to a firing in the same way that others see it. I don't believe Hoke+staff had evidence that his player may have had a concussion; I don't think we have enough evidence to do anything but speculate on that either. I wanted Morris out when his leg/ankle steadily became more of a bother.
|3 days 19 hours ago||"What the fuck is wrong with||
"What the fuck is wrong with you?"
I did say that Hoke made the wrong choice, didn't I?
|3 days 19 hours ago||Look, I'm not somehow trying||
Look, I'm not somehow trying to minimize the significance of a concussion.
I was not in any way pleased with the handling of that outfit, but I also saw Morris waive off the possibility of being seen by trainers. And I am not seeing the clear-as-day evidence that everyone else is seeing of a concussion. The confounding variable was the leg, which was also hurting him and had been all game. I wanted him taken out for that long before the targeting hit.
This is not to say it was handled well, and as I indicated above, I don't really think that it was, but I'd trust the guts of trainers, coaches, people trained to spot symptoms of concussions who are up close and in person before I'd trust the guts of a bunch of people who watched something on TV and felt sure about something that happened.
As a coach, what do you do to a player who waives examination? Do you force him to come off the field? Burn a timeout to get him off the field? Or do you trust that player and hope that the player's gut is gonna give you the best chance to win?
Hoke chose the latter; although almost certainly the wrong decision in this case, I don't think it's as clear-cut a decision as we're making it out to be.
|3 days 20 hours ago||I saw that diary; the problem||
I saw that diary; the problem for me is that our offensive style is emulating more of a Wisconsin style of play than of any other unit on that list. Without closer-to Wisco sized OL, we may not be able to succeed with that style of offense.
|3 days 20 hours ago||Last year Gardner had the||
Last year Gardner had the game of his life with a broken foot, and no one questioned Hoke for that. Why? Because the guy played well. Denard was also questionably-possibly-concussed on multiple occasions, under both Hoke and RR. We're scapegoating now.
What I saw was that Morris wanted to stay in. Should have/shouldn't have is it's own question. Hoke takes him out if he wants to come out. Shane needs to know when not to be the hero; Hoke needs to know when to enforce that Shane should not be a hero; and while a weird and grotesque moment in yesterday's game, I'm less interested in it as a reason to fire Hoke than as a reason to reexamine a coaching philosophy that has always seemed centered around heroes (Denard, Devin, Funch, etc.).
|5 days 21 hours ago||No.||
|6 days 13 hours ago||Don't forget: If Hoke goes,||
If Hoke goes, near certain that Mattison does, too.