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No way the B1G leaves Cal on…

No way the B1G leaves Cal on the table for a myriad of reasons. They would be a package deal with the other CA schools. Travel/scheduling is much easier if the Pacific B1G schools have another local B1G game.

As others have mentioned, any ACC/ND schools are locked up for a minimum of 10 years before they can even start to think about leaving. 

Only way Pitt gets into the B1G is if PSU leaves for the SEC or some future Super League. And if PSU leaves for the SEC or some future Super League, Michigan will be leaving as well.

But you're not totally off base with your P12 acquisition. That is the logical next expansion move and in my view it will be 9 P12 schools and Kansas. With the ACC/ND locked up and the remaining B12 schools mostly worthless, this is the only move left on the board that provides a counterweight to the new SEC:

EAST
Maryland
Rutgers
PSU
OSU
Michigan
MSU

CENTRAL
Indiana
Purdue
Illinois
NW
Wisconsin
Minnesota

WEST
Iowa
Nebraska
Kansas
Colorado
Utah
Arizona

PACIFIC
Wash
Oregon
Cal
Stanford
USC
UCLA

Pros:
+This is a true national conference with 10 football Kings/Barons aka the schools that a casual viewer wants to watch. For reference, the New SEC has 9. From a financial perspective the SEC may still pull ahead but it keeps the B1G in the same ball park.

+Basketball is upgraded as well with the additions of Kansas and UCLA.

+B1G gets a footprint in CA for recruiting purposes

+All schools are AAU.

+By bringing in 9 P12 schools you reduce cross county trips since most games will occur against your own division. This also helps with the non-revenue sports. (I admit the WEST does stretch from Arizona to Iowa, but it is contiguous and provides a bridge from the Pacific to the Great Lakes and beyond.)

Cons:
-Loss of tradition/rivalries?

-This is the way college football is heading, so you might as well be proactive.

I believe the best course of…

I believe the best course of action is to let the next 2-3 years play out. It gives Harbaugh time to makeover his roster to better fit the spread offense Gattis has installed. It's obvious he does not have the right personnel currently. It should be enough time to determine whether Ryan Day is the true heir to the OSU throne. Right now, that is still Meyer's program. But 2-3 years from now it will be Day's program. Right now, there is no one clamoring to take the Michigan job given its current roster, recruiting limitations, and a annual game against a program that recruits at a top 3-5 level. Also, despite having a less talented roster you must win that game at least 50% of the time (if not more) to make the fans/alumni happy. If you can't beat OSU, then you aren't going to the playoff, which is the primary goal of the fanbase. Given those expectations, there is no one signing up for that. But in 2-3 years, if OSU falls off, the Michigan job becomes more attractive. If OSU does not fall off, well hey you're in the same position as you are now.

You are correct. It would…

You are correct. It would probably take 2 recruiting cycles to get the personnel needed to run an air raid or spread and shred type offense. 

However, do you see Michigan overtaking OSU in the next two years without any changes? Even if they get by OSU, do you see them having any success in the playoff where multiple OSU type teams await?

 

This is really the only…

This is really the only thing Michigan has to address moving forward. They MUST move to a modern college offense. That means dismissing whoever is the current OC and bringing in a young guy with a modern vision. I don't want to hear about how Michigan had a top 25 offense per the advanced stats or that the offense was effective against OSU. I agree, it was effective but once the defense failed to stop OSU, the offense needed to be able to keep up and it could not.

Yes, the current Harbaugh offense will get Michigan 9-10 wins a year, but that's more a product of being more talented than 9-10 of your opponents. If Michigan ever wants to go beyond the 9-10 wins a year, it needs a modern offense. Otherwise, Michigan is essentially a more talented version of Wisconsin.

I agree. If I'm a football…

I agree. If I'm a football recruit, there are 3 things that I'm looking for in a college:

1) I want to win a lot games/championships

2) I want to get to the NFL

3) Campus life since I have to spend the next 3-4 years here. This ranges from school and social life to the gameday experience.

But, I think all 3 points can be overcome by a school if they are located in a talent rich area. Imagine if the state of Michigan consistently produced around 40 4 and 5 star recruits every year. (For reference, there are 39 4 and 5 star recruits in the class of 2019 from Georgia). Now, the state of Michigan would be more heavily recruited but given Michigan's history and flagship status, they would probably be guaranteed to sign at least 10 of these guys each year.  Couple that with the 10 4 and 5 stars that Michigan has committed now from out of state, finish it off with 5 3 stars and you've probably got a top 3 class in the country.

 

The academic angle is…

The academic angle is overblown. Michigan does not have the same academic standards when it comes to football that Stanford has. They are recruiting the same guys who Alabama, OSU and Clemson are recruiting. If you are a 5 star recruit and are interested in Michigan, as long as you meet the NCAA's minimum standards, have no criminal history, you're getting into Michigan if that's where you want to play football.

However, Michigan does have a geographic disadvantage that will keep them from elite recruiting territory. To compensate for the lack of high level talent in Michigan and the Midwest in general, you are generally trying to get recruits from California, Texas, Florida, Georgia, to turn down local options. All things equal, recruits generally pick the local school. Michigan will lose most of these battles and never quite break into elite recruiting territory.

Which brings me to the next point. Does it make sense continuing to run Harbaugh's traditional offense that requires you to have better players at each position on the field when you know you will never have a more talented roster than OSU? Yes, Harbaugh's Michigan has come close to beating Meyer's OSU teams, but they've also gotten blown out twice. If/when Michigan does get by OSU, awaiting them in the playoff will be more OSU type programs.

So, what does Michigan do? 

There were still 18 minutes…

There were still 18 minutes left in the game when OSU went up 41-19. Michigan responded with a TD drive to make it a two score game with 14 minutes left to go. It was still possible to win the game at that point. Unlikely, yes. But possible. What Michigan needed was a defensive stop and they couldn't get it. After the Campbell TD put OSU up 48-25, Michigan responded again with a TD to make it a two score game with 9 minutes left. A victory was increasingly unlikely, but still within the realm of possibility. But they needed a stop, and once again, they couldn't get it. At that point it was over with OSU going up 55-32 with 7 minutes left.

So I would not describe the offense as "fine", but I do think it produced enough for Michigan to make it a competitive game. The defense on the other hand was awful and lost the game. There was immense pressure on DJ Durkin after the 2015 blowout loss to OSU. There should be equal if not more pressure on Don Brown after a far worse performance.

 

It was a one score loss, but…

It was a one score loss, but some context is needed.

It was a 14 point deficit with 5 minutes left in the 4th quarter before Michigan finally put together their only TD drive (the other TD came on a kickoff return). So while it was a 7 point deficit at the end of the game it felt larger. And yes, Michigan had the ball with the chance to tie at the end, but that drive fizzled out with Michigan in their own territory. They never came close to tying it. Basically, I never got the sense that Michigan was on ND's level that day. Similar to how I felt about Michigan's one score win against NW. It was a close win, but Michigan was the far better team.

I predicted a 9-3 record, so…

I predicted a 9-3 record, so a 10-2 finish exceeded my own expectations on paper. But if you look closer at the 10-2, it's disappointing. 

They beat MSU, but MSU turned out to be an above average team finishing 7-5. Wisconsin looked tough pre-season but ended up 7-5, their worst finish in recent memory. PSU was a good win, but PSU was not nearly the team they were the previous two years. Northwestern is a good win if you go by rankings, but that's a team that went 0-3 in the non-conference and likely finishes sub .500 if they played in the B1G East. Michigan also nearly lost to them. Western Michigan is the only other team that Michigan beat that finished with a winning record. Most importantly, against the only two teams on Michigan's level or at least perceived level this year (ND, OSU), Michigan lost convincingly to both. 
 

I think the issue most…

I think the issue most people are having is the offense, which looked identical to last year’s offense, i.e. bad. Patterson looked like a slight upgrade at QB, but not much better than O’Korn/Peters. I still see very little speed on offense and very few playmakers. O line looked about the same. Coaching wise the clock management was beyond awful. The play selection was also questionable.

Yes, MSU and PSU struggled against inferior competition but I think we can attribute that to overlooking the opponent. Both also have a track record of getting better as the season progresses. MSU in particular seems to struggle early before turning it on.

I actually was expecting Michigan to lose. Like you said, it is difficult to open the season against a quality opponent on the road. So no shame in losing, but I wanted to see improvement offensively and I did not see that. And that does not bode well for the rest of the season.

The alternatives are Peters

The alternatives are Peters who looked flat out terrible in his last outing (and was average at best this past season) and McCaffery who has never played. So, yes people are rightly excited about Patterson because without him Michigan is probabaly looking at another 8-5 type season.

He's also the losingest coach

He's also the losingest coach in program history.

Why would you post a dumb

Why would you post a dumb thing like this?

#1 QB
#2 Lack of playmakers

#1 QB

#2 Lack of playmakers on offense



Michigan brought in Patterson to alleviate #1. Hopefully he is eligible next year.



Regarding #2, I'm not sure there is a quick fix. The WRs as a group are very dissapointing thus far despite all being very highly rated. The TEs are average in my opinion, no one is really a difference maker. RBs are solid, but again nowhere near what Alabama or Georgia has. Even within the B1G, Wisconsin, Iowa, OSU, PSU and MSU all had/have superior RBs.

 

Interesting that the "Peters

Interesting that the "Peters is the frontrunner" talk has completely vanished from this site.

I actually think MSU will be

I actually think MSU will be the favorite to win the East next year (or at a minimum co-favorite with OSU). They return basically everyone. They return Lewerke who is at worst a top 3 QB in the league. They get OSU and Michigan at home and they avoid Wisconsin.

Why is the fanbase toxic?

Why is the fanbase toxic? Should the fans ignore what was an extremely underwhelming season? Should the fans ignore a total meltodwn to an average at best South Carolina team? Should the fans ignore that Michigan doesn't have a QB? Should the fans ignore that Michigan's 2018 recruiting class is sub par? Should the fans ignore that Michigan's schedule figures to be much more difficult next year? Should the fans ignore that Michigan's offensive playcalling leaves much to be desired?



The fans recognize that Michigan has major problems. That's not toxic, that's viewing things without maize and blue tinted glasses.

I think we will see 8 pretty

I think we will see 8 pretty soon. The move to 4 teams began when LSU and Alabama played for the national title in 2011. It was the lowest rated title game ever because no one outside the south wanted to see those teams play. Assuming Alabama holds on, we are heading for another boring SEC final that no one outside the south wants to watch.

Look, the B1G went 7-1 in bowls. That matters. Perhaps OSU was not a top 4 team (I thought they deserved a spot over Alabama) but the league is going to finish with 3 top 7 teams, 4 top 10 teams, and 6 top 25 teams. That tells me its champ (OSU) deserved a shot at the national title via an 8 team system.

Honestly, I think Michigan

Honestly, I think Michigan does win with O'Korn and I was shocked that Peters came back in when he got his eye poked. I mean Peters was pretty terrible, would O'Korn have been worse? I also guarantee O'Korn tries to pick up that first down with a minute left instead of sliding a yard short.

No and he never was.

No and he never was.

I think people are

I think people are overthinking this.



If you are Patterson and your goal is to make it to the NFL or at the very least have a good college career, why would you relinquish a starting QB job at Ole Miss to become a backup QB at Michigan? You don't. You go Michigan to start, otherwise you stay at Ole Miss or go elsewhere.



If you're Harbaugh, and you are 100% confident in your QBs (Peters/McCaffery/incoming QB recruits) why bring in Patterson? You aren't. You bring in Patterson because Peters put up pedestrian numbers and Patterson is better than the guys on your roster.



All signs point to Patterson.











 

Not logical.
Option 1:

Not logical.



Option 1: Patterson stays at Ole Miss where he is the current starter.



Option 2: Patterson transfers to another school where he will start (UCLA for example).



Option 3: Patterson transfers to Michigan where he will be the backup.



There is no scenario where he chooses option 3 given options 1 and 2. If he chooses to go to Michigan and is eligible to play, he is going to be Michigan's starter.



Further, if Harbaugh was truly confident in Peters and/or McCaffery he would not be recruiting Patterson.

Seems like Tennessee just

Seems like Tennessee just hired the younger, southern version of Greg Schiano.

Jameis Winston.

Jameis Winston.

Re: basketball bullet point

Re: basketball bullet point #2



I think this is too low a bar. The B1G has only one "blue blood" basketball program in Indiana that has institutional advantages over Michgian. But after Indiana, Michigan sits in a group of schools that is very similar in terms of past success and future ceiling. I believe this tier consists of the following schools in no particular order:



Ohio State

Michigan State

Michigan

Illinois

Maryland



In theory, if IU is operating at maximum capacity, then the schools in the above tier will never be able to surpass IU. However, there is nothing preventing Michigan from being better than the other schools in this tier. That means realistically Michigan should be finishing in the top 2 to top 6 of the B1G every year. It's also unlikely that all 5 of these schools plus Indiana are operating at maximum capacity at the same time, that's why for me Michigan should finish in the top 4 every year.



Note: if you're wondering about Wisconsin or Purdue, I think Michigan has a much higher ceiling than both.









 

FSU is at worst a top 5 job,

FSU is at worst a top 5 job, more like top 3. Oregon is more like a top 20 job.

16 teams would be the most

16 teams would be the most exciting system, since otherwise meaningless games late in the season would take on added importance as P5 teams jostle for at large bids while G5 title games would be play in games. It would however devalue the regular season and also involve some very undeserving teams.

Questions to consider:



Do you give autobids to every league? (10 autobids, 6 at large). I don't think you can. The MAC, CUSA and Sun Belt are FCS leagues playing at the FBS level. Even the American and Mountain West lag well behind the much derided SEC East and B1G West. Why should these league champions be included over middle tier P5 teams, who would likely go undefeated if they played in these leagues?



If you don't give autobids to every league (5 autobids for the P5, 11 at large), you start to include some pretty underwhelming teams when you start awarding the at large bids even if you give one bid to the highest rated G5 team (this year UCF). Washington, Stanford, and Notre Dame would all likely receive at large bids. Michigan State, LSU, Washington State and Oklahoma State, would be among the teams vying for the final at large bids. Even among the teams that would receive the first at large bids (Alabama, Wisconsin, Auburn, Penn State, Miami) there are questions.



That's why 8 teams is ideal in my view (5 auto, 2 at large, 1 for the highest rated G5 team). You make it possible but not a guarantee for a MAC, CUSA, or Sun Belt to get in. You remove the subjectivess from the decision (win a P5 league and you are in). And you maintain two spots for worthy non champion P5 teams.

Agree. His numbers were

Agree. His numbers were largely in line with Speight's 2017 numbers. No one seemed upset when Speight transferred. Peters was fine, certainly nothing special. 



Further, to those worried that it might upset the current QBs, consider this:



If Peters wins the job next season, he's the starting QB for at least 2 and probably 3 more seasons. That leaves McCaffery with only 1, maybe 2 seasons to start. Very unlikely that he sticks around. Alternatively, McCaffery could end up beating Peters for the job this offseason and seizing control of the starting job for the next 2-3 seasons. Peters is then likely transferring out.

Miles would be a bad

Miles would be a bad hire.



1. UT needs either an elite coach or someone that runs an innovative offense to make up for its disadvantages relative to Georgia and Florida. That isn't Miles.

2. Coaching is a young man's game, and Miles is old in coach years. If you hire him you are going to have teams negatively recruiting against him because of his age.

3. Given #2, he won't be there very long, so you're going to have to start thinking about another search 4-5 years after his hire.



After Hoke was fired, Miles was discussed as a potential replacement at Michigan. The consensus was overwhelmingly negative because of points 1,2, and 3. 3 years later and he would be a good hire at Tennessee?

Let's review the names that

Let's review the names that have turned UT down or taken other jobs:



Gruden - unknown if he was offered or interested in coaching again but he was laughably UT's #1 choice and he's still working for ESPN, which implies UT got turned down

Kelly - chose UCLA over Florida, did not consider UT

Frost - turned down Florida, likely headed to Nebraska (admitedly, UNL had the homecoming advantage but that's another coach UT would have wanted)

Mullen - chose Florida over UT

Cutcliffe - longtime former UT assitant, turned UT down

Gundy - there are certain jobs you just don't say no to, this is now the second time Gundy has passed on UT

Brohm - turned UT down

Moorhead - UT didn't offer him, but I'm guessing they would have taken him given who they are considering now

Doeren - current #1 target has a remarkbaly similar record (33-30 at NC State) to Schiano (68-67 at Rutgers).

 

I think bronxblue is mostly

I think bronxblue is mostly correct. In a vacuum, UT is a much better job than Purdue. More tradition, more resources, better recruiting base, etc. In theory, you can win a national title at UT and you probably won't at Purdue.



However, UT plays in the SEC East with Georgia and Florida so a national title while possible, is not likely since the path runs through them. Both have just as much if not more resources. They have far better recruiting bases (state lines matter in recruiting). And they have also had more recent success. (Since UT's last SEC East title, UGA has won it 3 times, UF has won it 4 times.) Things do ebb and flow but right now Georgia is on the verge of a playoff bid under Smart. (UT last contended for a title in 2001).  I think they are trending up. Likewise, Florida just hired the best available coach not named Kelly or Frost so I think it's safe to say they will be winning 9+ games a year from now on under Mullen.



And therein lies the problem for UT. If UGA and UF are handling their business (hiring a good coach, recruiting well enough in Georgia and Florida respectively), it doesn't matter what UT does since both will have more talent to work with. Even during the Fulmer era, UT had a losing record against UF. And UT's record against UGA was inflated because UGA was mediocre for much of that stretch. That series changed when UGA hired Richt.



On the other hand, you can make the case that Purdue can be the #3 team in the B1G West. Perhaps not yet, but eventually. So if UT is the #3 school in the SEC East and Purdue is the #3 team in the B1G West, is UT really that much of a step up from Purdue? 



Now if UT was content on being the #3 team in the SEC East, the job would be much more attractive. However, they turned on Jones after 4 years, two years owhich featured two straight 9 win seasons in years 3 and 4. They essentially vetoed the Schiano hire and it appears that they are now doing the same as UT is looking at Doeren. This is a fanbase that has warped expectations.



I mean, if UT was really that great of a job, coaches wouldn't be turning it down.

Nebraska has been figured

Nebraska has been figured out. It's Frost.

He is. Could be a nice

He is. Could be a nice rebound for Purdue too. Would he take it over ASU? Ceiling at ASU is higher than at Purdue, but I would not underestimate the "when mama calls" factor.

Not only that, but latest

Not only that, but latest reports have Gundy remaining at Oklahoma State.



I mean, clearly, UT offered Schiano because there wasn't much interest in the job.

So dealing with two schools

So dealing with two schools with superior resources is easier than dealing with one?



My advice to Gundy would be the cautionary tale of Bret Bielema. He left the B1G West's #1 job for the SEC West's #6 job. He could have likely retired in Madison seeing that Wisconsin wins 10+ games every year no matter who coaches the team. Instead, he'll be lucky to find another power 5 job in the near future. Oklahoma State is the Big 12's #3 job. Tennessee is the SEC's #7 job.



Don't go chasing waterfalls.

Yesterday, he was saying

Yesterday, he was saying Jason Witten (LOL) was going to be the next Tennessee coach. I think that tells you enough about Clay Travis.

Who talks like that

Who talks like that (MEEECHIGAN)?



A guy by the name of Fielding Yost.

Question. If you grew up in

Question. If you grew up in Pontiac and were a Pistons fan, what made you switch to the Cavs?

That largely depends on

That largely depends on Georgia and Florida. To win 9-10 games a year UT must:



Beat whoever they play in the non conference, which is sometimes a high level opponent.



They also much beat one of Alabama, UGA, or UF every year. 



They also must beat their other SEC West opponent every year no matter who it is.



They have to beat South Carolina every year.



They must never be upset by the likes of Missouri, Vanderbilt, and Kentucky.



That's hard to do when you are not on the Georgia, Florida, Alabama level and South Carolina is on your level. Remember, before this year Georgia hasn't been overly dominant the past decade and Florida has been mediocre. UT still couldn't beat either of them with any consistency. Now consider that Georgia is trending up under Smart. UF just hired the best coach available not named Kelly or Frost, and Saban will probably be at Alabama for the next 4-5 years.



Given all that, I don't think it's realistic to win 9-10 games a year. Quite frankly, the Butch Jones era is probably what the next 5 years will look like under the next coach, winning 7-8 games a year most years with the occasional 9-10 game season. UT has massive resources so they will never completely fade away, but winning the SEC and getting into the playoff isn't happening unless you hire a Chip Kelly/transformational coach. I think UT fans are delusional and the response to the Schiano hire was an examploe of it but I also think they recognized that Schiano or a Schiano level hire isn't going to propel UT to the top of the SEC East. Hence the delusions of grandeur in the form of Gruden.



 

I'm pretty sure next year's

I'm pretty sure next year's MSU game will be a night game.

The PSU prediction (Michigan

The PSU prediction (Michigan won by 39 in 2016 so they should easily dominate PSU in 2017)was really one of the most bizarre predictions I have even seen. It wasn't just a fringe prediction either, that seemed to be the consensus here.

He turned them down.

He turned them down.

Additionally, back when

Additionally, back when Tennessee was rolling, they could go also into North Carolina or South Carolina and get whoever they wanted since Clemson (just 3 hours away from Knoxville) was mediocre, South Carolina was a joke, and UNC and NC State were basketball focused.



Flash forward to today and Clemson is one of the best programs in the country, better than Tenn ever was. Today, if you're a top recruit in NC or SC, you're probably going to Clemson. South Carolina has been down post Spurrier but it now has the same ceiling as Tennessee. And while NC State and UNC are still basketball schools, they are far more competitive than they used to be and offer in state talent a viable option relative to going out of state.





 

From a pure football

From a pure football standpoint, I would not have hired Schiano.



But more fascinating is the disconnect between Tennessee's perception and more specifically the fans' perception of UT's football program and the perception of the program by the coaching industry. Does anyone really think Schiano was their first choice? Let's look at the top candidates this offseason:



Jon Gruden? LOL



Chip Kelly? Chose UCLA over Florida, didn't consider UT



Frost? Likely choosing Nebraska over Florida, didn't consider UT



Mullen? Chose Florida over UT



Campbell? Reportedly turned down UT



Taggart? Unsure if offered, but Oregon is a better job



Norvell? Could probably wait for a better job since he's destined to become the next hottest Group of 5 coach with Frost likely heading to Nebraska.



Some other candidates:



Petrino? Probably wouldn't voluntarily leave Lousivlle considering they gave him a second chance. And if you're going to say no to Schiano on moral grounds then you're going to look pretty hypocritical hiring one of the sleaziest coaches in college football.



Sumlin? Could actually be a good hire, but UT just fired a coach who won 9 games in back to back seasons (the first time it has been done since the Fulmer era) after one bad season. Do you really think Sumlin who couldn't consitently do it a a school with far more resources is going to exceed that? It also appears he's head to Arizona State, which means yet another coach turning down UT.



Kiffin? Pretty much caused the beginning of UT's slide into irrelevance following his one year train wreck at UT, and then flamed out at one of the top 3 jobs in college football. Considering the list of candidates that have probably turned UT down, I could actually see UT hiring him.



Strong? Similar to Kiffin in that he flamed out at a school with far more rersources. If he couldn't do it at Texas, why would be be able to do it at Tennessee? 



Again, Schiano was an uninspiring hire but Tenneessee fans are delusional if they think there are significantly better candidates out there that UT hasn't already offered.

It's a done deal. Mullen to

It's a done deal. Mullen to Florida confirms it.

Frost is heading to Nebraska.

Frost is heading to Nebraska.

The decision to schedule ND

The decision to schedule ND (and literally pay money to do so) is even more baffling because Michigan would have had Arkansas at home. Considering Arkansas will be undergoing a coaching transition, Michigan would have likely pummeled them and gotten major credit for beating an SEC opponent. And while Michigan's SOS would have likely taken a hit with Arkansas on the schedule, the overall impact would be negligible with MSU, PSU, OSU and Wisconsin (all figure to be top 25 teams next year) still on the schedule. I sincerely hope that this is the end of playing ND. 

Yes, and it is widely mocked

Yes, and it is widely mocked as one of the worst contracts ever.



Harbaugh is a great coach and the best Michigan could get in the next 5 years, but what's wrong with his current contract?

Michigan also hosts Nebraska,

Michigan also hosts Nebraska, which may be coached by Scott Frost. That could be yet another tough game.

Re: #2
So far, it's either

Re: #2



So far, it's either Purdue or Indiana. Considering Michigan went to OT against Indiana, I would say Purdue was Michigan's best overall performance relative to the competition played.