"You think JJ only throwing for ~200 yards a game might have something to do with not taking a snap in the 4th quarter of 2/3 of our games?"
No.
JJ playing 4th quarters against non-ranked overmatched opponents would've had a negligible difference on his stats. He would've mostly handed the ball off to RBs just like the back-up QBs did.
JJ had 332 pass attempts over 15 games. That's 22.1 passes per game.
Even if we throw out the extreme outlier (8 passes vs PSU), the average only rises to 23 passes per game.
We can also look at his pass attempts against the 5 ranked opponents Michigan played. He played all 4 quarters in those games: #10 PSU: 7/8 #2 OSU: 16/20 #16 Iowa - 22/30 (and most of these were short checkdowns after we built a lead) #4 Alabama - 17/27 #2 Washington - 10/18
In those 5 games, he averaged 20.6 passes per game. Even if I throw out the extreme outlier (PSU), his average pass attempts against the other 4 ranked opponents was 23.75.
"JJ had more first half pass attempts than any of the other QBs in the draft."
This would surprise me A LOT considering how often Michael Penix Jr and Bo Nix threw in 2023. I need a source on this.
"The point is that nothing about his performance yesterday did anything to put those concerns to rest."
And my point is that the Michigan Spring Game isn't designed to put such concerns to rest.
As I said above, the Michigan Spring Game doesn't let any QB (even a 5 star QB like JJ) be anything more than "just fine" because it's not designed to let QBs shine.
Your reading comprehension is not impressing me. I merely compared JJ MCarthy's spring game performance to Alex Orji's spring performance. I did not extrapolate. I said that Michigan - which is decidedly run-centric - does not showcase impressive passing offenses in spring games. I implied that Alex Orji was basically "fine" because the Michigan spring game doesn't allow a QB to look anything more than "fine." Hence, not even JJ and his vaunted 5 star status mattered in a Spring Game. In other words, Michigan spring games are not indicative of anything. JJ didn't impress in the 2023 Spring Game despite being proven as a 1st year starter in 2022.
"JJ was a 5* QB with a proven arm."
Alex Orji has a very strong arm. Have you watched his HS highlights? He has 2 full years of tape. In both tapes, he demonstrates a very strong arm and an ability to hit deep passes. And true to form, Alex Orji hit a deep pass in the 2022 Spring Game. Orji's arm and arm strength isn't the issue. It's whether he has the accuracy, mental processing, and poise to play QB at a high level for a national contender.
Btw, I'll repeat what I typed above.
2023 JJ averaged 199.4 passing yards per game over 15 games. That's only 15 more yards per game than what Cade (184) averaged in 2021. This is why Brooks Austin (the equivalent of Seth for Georgia Bulldogs) couldn't figure out why Michigan wasn't asking JJ to do more. IIRC, Austin's quote was "Michigan still plays offense as if Cade is still the starting QB instead of a 5 star." So 2 star, 3 star, 4 star, 5 star, some magical bullshit 7 star - none of those star ratings matter in terms of raw nominal QB production for Michigan's current style of football. We're entering 2024 and no Michigan QB has thrown for 30+ TDs which is freaking bizarre. Many thought JJ would finally be the first to do it in 2023. Nope. To his credit, 2023 JJ McCarthy was efficient and delivered key completions when it mattered but 2019 Joe Burrow he was not. Was he capable of much more? Absolutely. But Jim Harbaugh's Michigan wasn't gonna throw the ball 40+ times.
So to summarize: a Michigan spring game isn't indicative of anything w/r/t passing offense. Ex: JJ's spotty 2023 Spring Game didn't indicate good or bad. Fans just didn't care because JJ had started in 2022 so had a season of data to calm their concerns. We don't have any regular season data on Alex Orji so fans will be nervous / concerned / worried / paranoid entering the season. And some/many fans will fixate on Alex Orji's 3 star rating - as if that matters any more. His 3 star rating does not matter. Star ratings only matter in aggregate.
JJ McCarthy was a 5 star passer based on what he did in Illinois. In his senior year at IMG (COVID season), JJ's completion percentage in 8 games was 58%. But evalutaors gave JJ a pass because he transferred into IMG and adapted quickly.
"Orji was not"
Sure. But someday people will be able to look past a HS rating that has no predictive power over production in college. That day is clearly not today.
QB rankings are notoriously unreliable. Don't think so? Look at the top 40 QBs in each of the last 10 classes. You'll laugh once you realize how many highly ranked players washed out and became forgotten.
"when teams line up 10 in the box will Orji become JJ as a thrower?"
That's literally what we want teams to do. It makes play action much easier to hit.
Btw, JJ being a 5 star didn't matter. A lot of CFB analysts pointed out that while JJ was efficient, he wasn't asked to do much.
Ex: Do you realize that JJ averaged only 199.4 passing yards per game last season over 15 games? (To put that into context, Cade McNamara averaged 184 passing yards per game in 2021 over 14 games.) So JJ being a 5 star didn't matter in terms of a MASSIVE production boost. He was simply more efficient and clutch in big moments.
No, it seems you're confused about my argument. I wrote the following below:
"I watched his throws. Orji started off shaky (0-2) and then got going. I liked his accuracy on some key throws (like the 4th down play to extend a drive). I was more focused on how he was processing reads/progressions and his pocket awareness - the stuff that can't be gleaned from looking at stats from a glorified scrimmage. The most important a QB shows is command of offense in various situations. That is the best indicator of whether a QB will or won't be productive."
^ That's why I think Alex Orji can be viable.
I included the stat line to show that his accuracy was mostly fine. A lot of people were fixated on his 50% HS completion percentage. (How many have actually watched his HS tapes?)
In the same way that I wasn't fixated about JJ's completion % in a spring game and focused on how he looked as a 2nd year starter ("Did he seem polished and poised?), I was similarly focused on how Alex Orji looked in situations.
Ex: - Could he feel the pressure and sidestep it with a slide? - Was he doing half-field reads or going through a progression? - Did he have an innate sense for when to take off and use his feet? - Did Orji have choppy irregular footwork in the pocket or were his drops smooth and controlled?
Overall, I was pleased with how Alex Orji, Davis Warren, and Jadyn Davis performed with makeshift OL and some back-ups.
Orji started off shaky (0-2) and then got going. I liked his accuracy on some key throws (like the 4th down play to extend a drive). I was more focused on how he was processing reads/progressions and his pocket awareness - the stuff that can't be gleaned from looking at stats from a glorified scrimmage. The most important a QB shows is command of offense in various situations. That is the best indicator of whether a QB will or won't be productive.
Look up JJ's spring game stats. They weren't impressive either.
Along those lines, did people forget that JJ threw an INT early in last season's spring game? I'm just glad neither Orji nor Warren threw an INT.
We're not an air raid offense. Our QBs almost never have video-game numbers. We strive for our QBs to be productive and efficient. And our Spring Games are structured to reflect that.
Also, Orji's running ability will be more of a factor than JJ's was. Orji should've finished with 2 TDs. In a game situation, that one-handed touch is not a sack.
At one point, Alex Orji was 12/17 (70%) for 97 yards. And then he finished 12/19 (63%). (IIRC, there was at least 1 drop maybe 2 drops.)
That's pretty good considering fans were fixated on Alex Orji's 50% HS completion percentage. People don't understand that college offenses are much more efficient than ever before. OCs are great at scheming up efficient plays with multiple options.
I'm just happy that Alex Orji and Davis Warren seemed like viable starting QBs.
At one point, Alex Orji was 12/17 (70%) for 97 yards. And then he finished 12/19 (63%). (IIRC, there was at least 1 drop maybe 2 drops.)
That's pretty good considering fans couldn't look past Orji's 50% HS completion percentage. People don't understand that college offenses are much more efficient than ever before. OCs are great at scheming up efficient plays with multiple options.
I'm just happy that Alex Orji and Davis Warren seemed like viable starting QBs.
I was not trying to be first. Hence, I waited to even start the thread. In another browser I opened MGoBoard just to make sure someone else hadn't started a thread on the commitment.
Back in the early 2000s, it was UConn, Tennessee, and Stanford followed by Notre Dame plus Baylor as the dominant programs in the top 5. (I could be forgetting a program.)
In that time span, there were some new winners - like 1999 Purdue, 2006 Maryland. But the top was more or less solidified.
After Pat Summitt's retirement, Tennessee fell off. But Tennessee's spot was taken by South Carolina and Dawn Staley. And Staley is young so she can keep doing this for another 20+ years if she wants.
There is definitely a tier system. There's a top 5-6. Then a top 12-15. And then top 25 (with a lot of change near the bottom) depending on which coaches retire, which coaches are promoted/hired, and which players leave/graduate.
Michigan is currently in that fringe top 25 team zone.
KBA made us respectable. But you can see how it will be difficult for her to elevate Michigan from a fringe top 25 program to a top 12-15 program if her best player leaves after 2-3 seasons for better programs. The Transfer Portal is a good thing for a blue blood football program but a bad thing for an above average women's basketball program that is trying to improve.
The Transfer Portal has basically made the vast majority of college athletics into the minor leagues for the super established / successful programs.
Laila Phelia probably wants to play for a Final Four / National Championship caliber team for her senior season.
Your post is the equivalent of IU football fans saying "Pay AJ Barner a lot in NIL to keep him from going to Michigan" when he made clear that he wanted to go to a National Championship contender.
If Connor Essegian commits to Michigan, it won't be to play 15 mpg in Maize & Blue.
After his injury in the first game of his sophomore season, he should've redshirted. He wouldn't have wasted a season playing 7 mpg as a 2nd year player after averaging almost 27 mpg as a freshman.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong: I think they're doing that to go through the evaluation process so they know what to work on. Basically, it's a free trial run for when they do it after next season.
How is Gonzaga overrated? WTF are you talking about?
In the last 9 seasons, Gonzaga has reached:
9 Sweet 16s
5 Elite 8s
2 Final Fours
2 National Runner-Up finishes
That's a better run than the run John Beilein had from 2011 to 2019 because of Gonzaga's consistency. Yes, the West Coast Conference isn't the Big Ten but at least Mark Few is validating Gonzaga's success in the WCC with deep tournament runs.
Ndamukong Suh and Aaron Donald are the gold standard for college dominance as an interior DL.
Look up Aaron Donald's stats. They're up there with Suh's stats. The only reason more people weren't aware of Donald's stats is because he played on mediocre Pitt teams.
Graham and Grant will play on a reigning and defending National Championship Michigan team. If we keep winning, they should garner much more attention than Donald ever did.
Mason Graham would need a Ndamukong Suh level season to be a Heisman Finalist. I hope it happens.
More realistic scenario: Mason Graham and Kenneth Grant as 2024-25 unanimous all-Americans from the Michigan DL. I think each is primed to do amazing things.
-----
I'll use this opportunity to discuss the defense...
Will Johnson is Will Johnson. I wonder if he can reach Charles Woodson-esque levels of dominance this season.
I hope Derrick Moore and Josaiah Stewart take the next step and becomes monstrous pass rushers.
Rod Moore doesn't get enough credit for being the elite defender he is. I hope he finally earns that recognition this season.
/And I'm optimistic about our LBs this season in Ernest Hausmann, Jaishawn Barham, and back-ups like Jimmy Rolder.
//I'm excited to see players like Ja'Den McBurrows, Zeke Berry, and Brandyn Hillman take the next step in the secondary.
///Enow Etta is getting some Spring hype. Rayshaun Benny will be returning from injury.
"You want people to acknowledge that Shannon and Love and Hunter would have helped?"
Yes. That's basically my 2 posts in 1 sentence.
They would've helped and Juwan would likely still be employed.
In the various anti-Juwan threads I've seen, there's been a lot of venom directed at Juwan but no one mentions how he got screwed over on 2 key critical TP recruits which would've significantly altered how Juwan and Michigan program are perceived.
I did, however, make my case for how UM Admissions hindered Juwan Howard's attempts to rectify the roster and the chain of events that unfolded.
2. I did not compare Coach K's record and Juwan's record. However, I did point out that a similar scenario had played out before. And I want to clarify: by scenario I'm referring to a program that nearly reached the pinnacle being sub-.400 a few short years later.
At Michigan, Beilein went from trending toward getting fired in 2011 (pre-Sparty turnaround) to nearly winning a National Championship in 2013 to missing the NCAAT in 2015 to barely making the 2016 NCAAT as a play-in (and then losing a heartbreaker to ND) to playing for the National Championship in 2018. That's quite the roller coaster, no? Our fortunes changed dramatically within 2-3 year windows.
I was suggesting that Juwan Howard could've possibly engineered a turnaround IF he had greater institutional support/leeway. But if UM Admissions is going to hamper him in the age of the transfer portal, then the odds were low. And if UM Admissions will continue to be a problem for the next coach, then we can expect to see some more rough seasons.
3. When people were still in the honeymoon phase with Juwan Howard in 2021 and the early part of the 2021-2022 season, I said Juwan was making a mistake going after OADs because they are fool's gold. They key to sustained success in college sports is to get old and stay old. Ex: Did you know that the overwhelming majority of Final Four teams have at least 3 upperclassman starters? And multiple bench players tend to be upperclassmen too. Experienced quality talent matters. (Michigan could've had that coveted combination this season if Hunter Dickinson, Terrence Shannon Jr, and Caleb Love were all on the roster. And according to Ken Pom, each was a top 5 player in each one's respective conference this season. Brutal.)
For whatever reason, Juwan did not seem to understand the "get old and stay old" adage and it led to some poor roster management. It was a perfect maelstrom of not getting his top choices from HS (like Calipari does at Kentucky) and then not being able to clear his top choice from the transfer portal. To maintain a program, a coach has to be great at either building through HS recruiting or transfer portal recruiting. He can't fail at both. Juwan made the mistake of going for too many shiny 5 stars who ultimately ended up going elsewhere.
Hence, there was always a roster imbalance. Consider this: after Simpson graduated (following 2020 season), Juwan Howard had to rely on a series of transfer PGs: Mike Smith, DeVante Jones, Jaelin Llewellyn. Mike Smith was the best of the bunch but none of them were elite. When he finally developed a guard (i.e. combo guard Bufkin rather than a true PG, Bufkin left after 2 years (when he was expected to be a 3 year player). By the the time we finally developed a true PG in Dug McDaniel, the roster had holes elsewhere.
Juwan didn't have a consistent pipeline that proactively filled roster spots with more talent. We were always lacking somewhere and it finally caught up to him the last 2 seasons with the bottom falling out this season.
Tangent: Hunter Dickinson going to Kansas probably saved Bill Self from having an unthinkable 14-17 season. Bill Self (who is arguably the best coach in men's CBB) took Hunter Dickinson and had a 10 loss season. In 24 seasons as HC of a high major team (Illinois + Kansas), he's had only 3 different 10 loss seasons; 2024 is one of them. KU is currently 22-10. Imagine KU without Hunter Dickinson. You don't have to. Did you see how badly KU got blasted in the Big 12 Tournament by mediocre Cincinnati when KU was without Hunter Dickinson and Kevin McCullar? It's basically 2024 Michigan.
Talent acquisition is vitally important to all levels of success. I liked Juwan Howard swinging for the fences but Calipari's approach to HS recruiting shouldn't have been his approach at Michigan. And because that approach failed, he was always relying on the transfer portal to fix the deficit and it never came to fruition despite Juwan's best intentions. (Thanks, UM Admissions.)
Perhaps this should be a diary entry but I'll share it here.
My opinion: I didn't like how the Michigan fanbase quickly turned on Juwan Howard.
In retrospect, it's no surprise given that this is the same Michigan fanbase that wanted to fire Jim Harbaugh.
"What will change in 1 year?!?!" they asked.
Turns out A LOT.
And I can pull up the receipts. I already put a clownsuit on ThadMattasagoblin. I can do it for many more MGobloggers. (The Internet is truly forever thanks to sites like Archive.is or Wayback Machine.)
It's the same Michigan fanbase that was pissed at Warde Manuel for not firing Jim Harbaugh in 2020 and then was pissed at Warde Manuel for not being able to retain Jim Harbaugh in 2024 (even though it was clear that Harbaugh badly wants to win a Super Bowl). The Michigan fanbase talks out of both sides of its collective mouth. The notion that there's something special about the Michigan fanbase relative to other fanbases is horseshit. That was painfully obvious in how it talked (and still talks) about Paterno vs Schembechler. Both men failed to be leaders in things that matter infinitely more than football.
Also, all this talk from the Michigan fanbase about how Juwan Howard inherited a great team. No. He inherited a great program but not a great team. That's an important distinction. 3 starters (Charles Matthews, Jordan Poole, and Iggy) from the 2019 team left. 2 of those 3 were underclassmen.
Michigan Admissions knee-capped Juwan Howard by not letting him get 2 all-American caliber players (Terrence Shannon Jr, Caleb Love).
Timeline of events:
1. Moussa Diabate leaves because NIL can't go to foreign players. Michigan has a big hole at the PF spot because a talented international player (expected to be multi-year player) chooses to be OAD.
2. Juwan Howard tries to get Terrence Shannon Jr but is denied.
3. Michigan loses many close games, doesn't make NCAAT, and lacks someone exactly like Terrence Shannon Jr. at the hybrid SF/PF spot.
4. Hunter Dickinson leaves because he thinks Michigan doesn't have enough to win. He's not wrong.
5. Juwan Howard tries to get Caleb Love and gets screwed. Caleb Love having enough to get into Arizona but not Michigan is HORSE CRAP.
Think of all the close losses we've had the past 2 seasons. Those 2-3 players would've made a difference. Many games are decided in a 4-7 point spread. Yeah, they would've flipped many results.
In an alternate timeline, Juwan Howard gets Terrence Shannon Jr, Michigan makes the 2023 NCAAT as a 23-8/24-7 regular season team (so before BTT), Shannon returns for another season, Hunter Dickinson stays, Michigan gets Caleb Love, 2024 Michigan plays like a 1 or 2 seed (26-5/27-4) and is a Final Four contender. (Yeah, yeah..."spare me the if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle" posts.)
It's amazing how 1 transfer portal snafu had such a horrific chain of events.
FYI: Juwan isn't the first coach to take over a program 2 years removed from a National Championship runner-up finish. Coach K took over Duke in 1980-1981. Duke was 2 years removed from losing to Kentucky in 1978 NCAAT Final in St. Louis (because Jack Givens was on FIRE and scored 40+ points).
Look up Coach K's first 5 seasons at Duke (especially the first 3). And then look at year 6. (i've linked his wiki page for convenience.) It's amazing that Duke's AD Tom Butters didn't buckle to the pressure of Duke's major donors. And back then, nearly all players stayed 4 years. So Coach K inherited super talented players like Gene Banks and Jim Spanarkel from the start and struggled because they didn't fit his preferred system (attacking man-to-man defense).
I don't know if Juwan Howard would've been able to engineer a turnaround. But Michigan fans knowing that UM Admissions knee-capped Juwan Howard on 2 elite players and then acting surprised that his tenure collapsed? I find that annoying. Juwan isn't without faults but there's no doubt that he got sabotaged by UMAdmissions with its goofy graduate transfer vs upperclassman dichotomy.
And spare me the "he wasn't classy" nonsense. Our in-state rivals have that prick Tom Izzo as HC. Izzo abuses refs every game with his tirades. And there's many instances of him going overboard and chewing out (or even trying to manhandle) his own players.
Juwan shouldn't have slapped the Wisconsin dipshit. The Mark Turgeon confrontation was a nothingburger. And Sanderson was a he-said, he-said affair that didn't turn physical even if it was confrontational.
Winning cures everything. Just ask Michigan Football. And Juwan Howard didn't win enough. But he also didn't get to stock enough ammo in the arsenal to win enough.
We anticipated what the objections would be and came up with solutions.
He still wasn't convinced at the time.
But at least he came around. It's still not clear to me what led to his change of heart but better late than never. That said, it sure would've been nice to work with a proactive AD who can see around the corner, ya know?
Ravens defense under Martindale was (very) good but dipped to decent in his final season.
The problem was the high number of injuries to starters which forced Wink to rely on backups.
Also, Lamar Jackson was injured and that forced backup QB Tyler Huntley to start. And any defense will tire more easily if the offense can't sustain drives to stay on the field. Generally, fewer snaps for defense = better results.
Source: Family members who are hardcore Baltimore Ravens fans.
I graduated from Michigan in the 2000s. I used to be on 247Sports as Frank Chuck (not Chuck Frank). But I stopped posting when the board was closed. The Michigan board was one of the last open boards on the 247Sports network. That changed permanently after the merger with Scout.com. (I don't know if I can even log into that account any more.)
I did take courses at U of M Ross and Law School for the combined MBA & JD dual degree program. But I took an extended hiatus to pursue an opportunity...
I won't go into all of them but 3 bigs ones were the following:
1. "Transformational, not transactional"
2. Uncertain ROI
3. Questions surrounding lack of guidelines or guardrails
Btw, Warde Manuel isn't totally in control. Some of it is also lack of clear leadership from the regents. At times, Manuel is a mouthpiece and not a leader with total agency. (And I find that very annoying. We need an adaptive pro-NIL AD who will advocate relentlessly for *his* (or her) vision of Michigan Athletics and implement it with a clear, actionable plan.)
The internet is forever. (It's funny to see some of the board regulars argued for firing Harbaugh.)
"It ain't getting any better next year." - ThadMattasagoblin
It did in fact get better - MUCH BETTER - the following year.
/I don't like Warde Manuel but some of my reasons are different than the reasons of reactionary Michigan fans looking to scapegoat someone whenever something negative happens. I had a role in pitching a NIL collective to Warde which he turned down. It was funny to see him come around less than 12 months later...
//Michigan needs an aggressive, visionary Athletic Director. Unfortunately, Warde Manuel thus far has not shown anything to indicate he fits that description.
@bo_lives: Would you like me to link more threads? The postgame threads were particularly nasty and vicious. They reeked of anti-Harbaugh sentiment. Perhaps you need to be reminded of the things that were said and repeated against Harbaugh during and after the COVID season. We can also revisit preseason threads before 2021...
"What did Warde contribute to the national championship?"
I'm not a fan of Warde Manuel but I would say Warde not firing Jim Harbaugh when most of the fanbase wanted him fired is undeniably a big feather in Warde Manuel's cap. Warde not being reactionary and not yielding to massive pressure was a major positive in the long-run. The 2nd chance he gave Harbaugh cannot be understated.
Many Michigan fans might not want to admit that they once wanted Harbaugh fired (0-5 against OSU, 3-3 vs MSU, 2-4 in COVID season) but they know who they are. Many of those posts on MGoBlog can be easily accessed with a Google search. Some of those posts are still up on Twitter/X. (The internet is forever.)
Agree. Carr should've put his foot down and advocated for someone.
Heck, Lloyd Carr's decision to hire Scott Loeffler over Jim Harbaugh for the QB coaching job was also an egregious mistake that changed trajectory of Michigan Football program.
1. Yost
2. Crisler
3. Harbaugh
4. Carr
5. Schembechler
6. Moeller (my personal favorite, his firing changed Michigan's long-term trajectory for the worse)
I value winning National Championship a lot. Hence, Schembechler is #5 behind the first 4 who won it all. If this was just modern Michigan coaches (so 1960s and on then Schembechler would be 3rd on my list.
Schembechler had many National Championship caliber teams but could never find a way to go perfect. One year a reliable kicker missed a makeable kick. Another year, a sure-handed WR dropped a (TD) pass that would've sealed the game or won the game. Another year, the beef with refs led to a phantom call. There was always something.
I want Juwan Howard to succeed so I hope you're right.
Most basketball games are decided by a few plays. After the loss to Villanova in the 2022 NCAAT Sweet 16, Juwan Howard's Michigan has struggled with winning close games.
We're not far off from being a winning program but he must figure out why his teams are having trouble finishing off teams regardless of venue.
Uh...the previous coach (Beilein) had a well-deserved and well-earned reputation for:
(1) being a poor defensive coach
(2) his teams consistently getting outrebounded on the glass
So much so that he was forced to hire a "DC" to fix the defense and rebounding.
This Michigan team blew 2 late leads at home (Long Beach State, Indiana). Win those 2 games and Michigan is 7-3 instead of 5-5. But we are what our record says we are (to echo Bill Parcells).
I'm hopeful that Juwan Howard can engineer a mid-season turnaround.
The most shocking thing about this Michigan team is that its defense is not good to put it nicely. (Michigan has 122nd ranked defense on Ken Pom and Bart Torvik but a top 20 offense on both.) Many expected defense to be this team's calling card.
Source close to the program just told Josh [Henschke] it's "all nonsense". With all the smoke seems unlikely nothing happened, but probably not physical. Which again, would explain Howard being at the game.
Recent Comments
@JonnyHintz:
"You think JJ only throwing for ~200 yards a game might have something to do with not taking a snap in the 4th quarter of 2/3 of our games?"
No.
JJ playing 4th quarters against non-ranked overmatched opponents would've had a negligible difference on his stats. He would've mostly handed the ball off to RBs just like the back-up QBs did.
JJ had 332 pass attempts over 15 games. That's 22.1 passes per game.
Even if we throw out the extreme outlier (8 passes vs PSU), the average only rises to 23 passes per game.
We can also look at his pass attempts against the 5 ranked opponents Michigan played. He played all 4 quarters in those games:
#10 PSU: 7/8
#2 OSU: 16/20
#16 Iowa - 22/30 (and most of these were short checkdowns after we built a lead)
#4 Alabama - 17/27
#2 Washington - 10/18
In those 5 games, he averaged 20.6 passes per game. Even if I throw out the extreme outlier (PSU), his average pass attempts against the other 4 ranked opponents was 23.75.
"JJ had more first half pass attempts than any of the other QBs in the draft."
This would surprise me A LOT considering how often Michael Penix Jr and Bo Nix threw in 2023. I need a source on this.
"The point is that nothing about his performance yesterday did anything to put those concerns to rest."
And my point is that the Michigan Spring Game isn't designed to put such concerns to rest.
As I said above, the Michigan Spring Game doesn't let any QB (even a 5 star QB like JJ) be anything more than "just fine" because it's not designed to let QBs shine.
@JonnyHintz
"Now quit with the JJ comparison"
Your reading comprehension is not impressing me. I merely compared JJ MCarthy's spring game performance to Alex Orji's spring performance. I did not extrapolate. I said that Michigan - which is decidedly run-centric - does not showcase impressive passing offenses in spring games. I implied that Alex Orji was basically "fine" because the Michigan spring game doesn't allow a QB to look anything more than "fine." Hence, not even JJ and his vaunted 5 star status mattered in a Spring Game. In other words, Michigan spring games are not indicative of anything. JJ didn't impress in the 2023 Spring Game despite being proven as a 1st year starter in 2022.
"JJ was a 5* QB with a proven arm."
Alex Orji has a very strong arm. Have you watched his HS highlights? He has 2 full years of tape. In both tapes, he demonstrates a very strong arm and an ability to hit deep passes. And true to form, Alex Orji hit a deep pass in the 2022 Spring Game. Orji's arm and arm strength isn't the issue. It's whether he has the accuracy, mental processing, and poise to play QB at a high level for a national contender.
Btw, I'll repeat what I typed above.
2023 JJ averaged 199.4 passing yards per game over 15 games. That's only 15 more yards per game than what Cade (184) averaged in 2021. This is why Brooks Austin (the equivalent of Seth for Georgia Bulldogs) couldn't figure out why Michigan wasn't asking JJ to do more. IIRC, Austin's quote was "Michigan still plays offense as if Cade is still the starting QB instead of a 5 star." So 2 star, 3 star, 4 star, 5 star, some magical bullshit 7 star - none of those star ratings matter in terms of raw nominal QB production for Michigan's current style of football. We're entering 2024 and no Michigan QB has thrown for 30+ TDs which is freaking bizarre. Many thought JJ would finally be the first to do it in 2023. Nope. To his credit, 2023 JJ McCarthy was efficient and delivered key completions when it mattered but 2019 Joe Burrow he was not. Was he capable of much more? Absolutely. But Jim Harbaugh's Michigan wasn't gonna throw the ball 40+ times.
So to summarize: a Michigan spring game isn't indicative of anything w/r/t passing offense. Ex: JJ's spotty 2023 Spring Game didn't indicate good or bad. Fans just didn't care because JJ had started in 2022 so had a season of data to calm their concerns. We don't have any regular season data on Alex Orji so fans will be nervous / concerned / worried / paranoid entering the season. And some/many fans will fixate on Alex Orji's 3 star rating - as if that matters any more. His 3 star rating does not matter. Star ratings only matter in aggregate.
@BOLEACH7
"JJ was a stud 5* passer coming out of IMG"
JJ McCarthy was a 5 star passer based on what he did in Illinois. In his senior year at IMG (COVID season), JJ's completion percentage in 8 games was 58%. But evalutaors gave JJ a pass because he transferred into IMG and adapted quickly.
"Orji was not"
Sure. But someday people will be able to look past a HS rating that has no predictive power over production in college. That day is clearly not today.
QB rankings are notoriously unreliable. Don't think so? Look at the top 40 QBs in each of the last 10 classes. You'll laugh once you realize how many highly ranked players washed out and became forgotten.
"when teams line up 10 in the box will Orji become JJ as a thrower?"
That's literally what we want teams to do. It makes play action much easier to hit.
Btw, JJ being a 5 star didn't matter. A lot of CFB analysts pointed out that while JJ was efficient, he wasn't asked to do much.
Ex: Do you realize that JJ averaged only 199.4 passing yards per game last season over 15 games? (To put that into context, Cade McNamara averaged 184 passing yards per game in 2021 over 14 games.) So JJ being a 5 star didn't matter in terms of a MASSIVE production boost. He was simply more efficient and clutch in big moments.
@Quailman:
No, it seems you're confused about my argument. I wrote the following below:
"I watched his throws. Orji started off shaky (0-2) and then got going. I liked his accuracy on some key throws (like the 4th down play to extend a drive). I was more focused on how he was processing reads/progressions and his pocket awareness - the stuff that can't be gleaned from looking at stats from a glorified scrimmage. The most important a QB shows is command of offense in various situations. That is the best indicator of whether a QB will or won't be productive."
^ That's why I think Alex Orji can be viable.
I included the stat line to show that his accuracy was mostly fine. A lot of people were fixated on his 50% HS completion percentage. (How many have actually watched his HS tapes?)
In the same way that I wasn't fixated about JJ's completion % in a spring game and focused on how he looked as a 2nd year starter ("Did he seem polished and poised?), I was similarly focused on how Alex Orji looked in situations.
Ex:
- Could he feel the pressure and sidestep it with a slide?
- Was he doing half-field reads or going through a progression?
- Did he have an innate sense for when to take off and use his feet?
- Did Orji have choppy irregular footwork in the pocket or were his drops smooth and controlled?
Overall, I was pleased with how Alex Orji, Davis Warren, and Jadyn Davis performed with makeshift OL and some back-ups.
@Quailman.
I watched his throws.
Orji started off shaky (0-2) and then got going. I liked his accuracy on some key throws (like the 4th down play to extend a drive). I was more focused on how he was processing reads/progressions and his pocket awareness - the stuff that can't be gleaned from looking at stats from a glorified scrimmage. The most important a QB shows is command of offense in various situations. That is the best indicator of whether a QB will or won't be productive.
@JonnyHintz:
As I said above, JJ McCarthy didn't have good stats in the 2023 Michigan Spring Game.
Michigan runs vanilla stuff on pass offense during Spring Games. That's been a common theme the last 3 Spring Games including today.
I'm fine with Orji taking what the defense gave him.
@Quailman:
Look up JJ's spring game stats. They weren't impressive either.
Along those lines, did people forget that JJ threw an INT early in last season's spring game? I'm just glad neither Orji nor Warren threw an INT.
We're not an air raid offense. Our QBs almost never have video-game numbers. We strive for our QBs to be productive and efficient. And our Spring Games are structured to reflect that.
Also, Orji's running ability will be more of a factor than JJ's was. Orji should've finished with 2 TDs. In a game situation, that one-handed touch is not a sack.
"we don't have a QB"
Wut?
At one point, Alex Orji was 12/17 (70%) for 97 yards. And then he finished 12/19 (63%). (IIRC, there was at least 1 drop maybe 2 drops.)
That's pretty good considering fans were fixated on Alex Orji's 50% HS completion percentage. People don't understand that college offenses are much more efficient than ever before. OCs are great at scheming up efficient plays with multiple options.
I'm just happy that Alex Orji and Davis Warren seemed like viable starting QBs.
Wut?
At one point, Alex Orji was 12/17 (70%) for 97 yards. And then he finished 12/19 (63%). (IIRC, there was at least 1 drop maybe 2 drops.)
That's pretty good considering fans couldn't look past Orji's 50% HS completion percentage. People don't understand that college offenses are much more efficient than ever before. OCs are great at scheming up efficient plays with multiple options.
I'm just happy that Alex Orji and Davis Warren seemed like viable starting QBs.
I was not trying to be first. Hence, I waited to even start the thread. In another browser I opened MGoBoard just to make sure someone else hadn't started a thread on the commitment.
Yep. Noted. This was a...learning experience.
Yeah, see my immediate reply. Somehow my title ended up as a tag. I don't get it man...I don't get it.
WTF?
"2024 4 star SG Justin Pippen committed to Michigan and new HC Dusty May"
How did the title end up as a tag?
Starting a thread on this site is...uh...challenging for me.
…
Yep. Your point is true.
Back in the early 2000s, it was UConn, Tennessee, and Stanford followed by Notre Dame plus Baylor as the dominant programs in the top 5. (I could be forgetting a program.)
In that time span, there were some new winners - like 1999 Purdue, 2006 Maryland. But the top was more or less solidified.
After Pat Summitt's retirement, Tennessee fell off. But Tennessee's spot was taken by South Carolina and Dawn Staley. And Staley is young so she can keep doing this for another 20+ years if she wants.
There is definitely a tier system. There's a top 5-6. Then a top 12-15. And then top 25 (with a lot of change near the bottom) depending on which coaches retire, which coaches are promoted/hired, and which players leave/graduate.
Michigan is currently in that fringe top 25 team zone.
KBA made us respectable. But you can see how it will be difficult for her to elevate Michigan from a fringe top 25 program to a top 12-15 program if her best player leaves after 2-3 seasons for better programs. The Transfer Portal is a good thing for a blue blood football program but a bad thing for an above average women's basketball program that is trying to improve.
The Transfer Portal has basically made the vast majority of college athletics into the minor leagues for the super established / successful programs.
Laila Phelia probably wants to play for a Final Four / National Championship caliber team for her senior season.
Your post is the equivalent of IU football fans saying "Pay AJ Barner a lot in NIL to keep him from going to Michigan" when he made clear that he wanted to go to a National Championship contender.
Laila Phelia probably wants to play for a Final Four / National Championship caliber team for her senior season.
Unfortunately, Michigan Basketball is not that. We have 2 Sweet 16 appearances (2021, 2022) and 1 Elite 8 appearance (2022) in our entire history.
Because Michigan is not a top 10 caliber *program* in women's college basketball, we're likely to lose players who aspire for more...
KBA has done a great job of making Michigan Women's Basketball respectable but we're still a long way from being elite much less dominant.
If Connor Essegian commits to Michigan, it won't be to play 15 mpg in Maize & Blue.
After his injury in the first game of his sophomore season, he should've redshirted. He wouldn't have wasted a season playing 7 mpg as a 2nd year player after averaging almost 27 mpg as a freshman.
I want to see UConn vs Purdue in the National Championship Game because I want to see 7'2" / 280 pound Donovan Clingan vs 7'4" / 300 pound Zach Edey.
One Kaiju versus Another Kaiju...
Someone correct me if I'm wrong: I think they're doing that to go through the evaluation process so they know what to work on. Basically, it's a free trial run for when they do it after next season.
Yeah, how is…
@HouseHarbaugh
How is Gonzaga overrated? WTF are you talking about?
In the last 9 seasons, Gonzaga has reached:
9 Sweet 16s
5 Elite 8s
2 Final Fours
2 National Runner-Up finishes
That's a better run than the run John Beilein had from 2011 to 2019 because of Gonzaga's consistency. Yes, the West Coast Conference isn't the Big Ten but at least Mark Few is validating Gonzaga's success in the WCC with deep tournament runs.
Another…
"The Grahamdaddy"
Another nickname I like. I'm committing that one to memory.
I...like this one.
Yep. I wouldn't mind seeing Michigan use Graham and Grant as FBs on offense in goal line or short yardage situations.
Imagine if we use either like William Perry The Fridge.
Ndamukong Suh and Aaron Donald are the gold standard for college dominance as an interior DL.
Look up Aaron Donald's stats. They're up there with Suh's stats. The only reason more people weren't aware of Donald's stats is because he played on mediocre Pitt teams.
Graham and Grant will play on a reigning and defending National Championship Michigan team. If we keep winning, they should garner much more attention than Donald ever did.
Mason Graham would need a Ndamukong Suh level season to be a Heisman Finalist. I hope it happens.
More realistic scenario: Mason Graham and Kenneth Grant as 2024-25 unanimous all-Americans from the Michigan DL. I think each is primed to do amazing things.
-----
I'll use this opportunity to discuss the defense...
Will Johnson is Will Johnson. I wonder if he can reach Charles Woodson-esque levels of dominance this season.
I hope Derrick Moore and Josaiah Stewart take the next step and becomes monstrous pass rushers.
Rod Moore doesn't get enough credit for being the elite defender he is. I hope he finally earns that recognition this season.
/And I'm optimistic about our LBs this season in Ernest Hausmann, Jaishawn Barham, and back-ups like Jimmy Rolder.
//I'm excited to see players like Ja'Den McBurrows, Zeke Berry, and Brandyn Hillman take the next step in the secondary.
///Enow Etta is getting some Spring hype. Rayshaun Benny will be returning from injury.
"You want people to acknowledge that Shannon and Love and Hunter would have helped?"
Yes. That's basically my 2 posts in 1 sentence.
They would've helped and Juwan would likely still be employed.
In the various anti-Juwan threads I've seen, there's been a lot of venom directed at Juwan but no one mentions how he got screwed over on 2 key critical TP recruits which would've significantly altered how Juwan and Michigan program are perceived.
Thank your for…
@BlueDad22
Thank your for the details. I appreciate you providing context to the story.
You misinterpreted parts of my post. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough so I want to clarify.
1. I did not mean to suggest or indicate Juwan's firing was unwarranted. After 2021, the Michigan Basketball program was undeniably getting worse season after season. And an 8-24 record is unconscionably awful. If Juwan Howard had managed to go 15-17 this season then perhaps he deserved 1 more season to see if he could right the program. (Tangent: After a very successful start to his Purdue career, Matt Painter had a 16-18 season followed by a 15-17 season in 2013 and 2014. Purdue chose to be patient and it worked out for the Boilermakers. Juwan needed to show that he could keep the program afloat this season. He did not. Hence, he wasn't retained.)
I did, however, make my case for how UM Admissions hindered Juwan Howard's attempts to rectify the roster and the chain of events that unfolded.
2. I did not compare Coach K's record and Juwan's record. However, I did point out that a similar scenario had played out before. And I want to clarify: by scenario I'm referring to a program that nearly reached the pinnacle being sub-.400 a few short years later.
At Michigan, Beilein went from trending toward getting fired in 2011 (pre-Sparty turnaround) to nearly winning a National Championship in 2013 to missing the NCAAT in 2015 to barely making the 2016 NCAAT as a play-in (and then losing a heartbreaker to ND) to playing for the National Championship in 2018. That's quite the roller coaster, no? Our fortunes changed dramatically within 2-3 year windows.
I was suggesting that Juwan Howard could've possibly engineered a turnaround IF he had greater institutional support/leeway. But if UM Admissions is going to hamper him in the age of the transfer portal, then the odds were low. And if UM Admissions will continue to be a problem for the next coach, then we can expect to see some more rough seasons.
3. When people were still in the honeymoon phase with Juwan Howard in 2021 and the early part of the 2021-2022 season, I said Juwan was making a mistake going after OADs because they are fool's gold. They key to sustained success in college sports is to get old and stay old. Ex: Did you know that the overwhelming majority of Final Four teams have at least 3 upperclassman starters? And multiple bench players tend to be upperclassmen too. Experienced quality talent matters. (Michigan could've had that coveted combination this season if Hunter Dickinson, Terrence Shannon Jr, and Caleb Love were all on the roster. And according to Ken Pom, each was a top 5 player in each one's respective conference this season. Brutal.)
For whatever reason, Juwan did not seem to understand the "get old and stay old" adage and it led to some poor roster management. It was a perfect maelstrom of not getting his top choices from HS (like Calipari does at Kentucky) and then not being able to clear his top choice from the transfer portal. To maintain a program, a coach has to be great at either building through HS recruiting or transfer portal recruiting. He can't fail at both. Juwan made the mistake of going for too many shiny 5 stars who ultimately ended up going elsewhere.
Hence, there was always a roster imbalance. Consider this: after Simpson graduated (following 2020 season), Juwan Howard had to rely on a series of transfer PGs: Mike Smith, DeVante Jones, Jaelin Llewellyn. Mike Smith was the best of the bunch but none of them were elite. When he finally developed a guard (i.e. combo guard Bufkin rather than a true PG, Bufkin left after 2 years (when he was expected to be a 3 year player). By the the time we finally developed a true PG in Dug McDaniel, the roster had holes elsewhere.
Juwan didn't have a consistent pipeline that proactively filled roster spots with more talent. We were always lacking somewhere and it finally caught up to him the last 2 seasons with the bottom falling out this season.
Tangent: Hunter Dickinson going to Kansas probably saved Bill Self from having an unthinkable 14-17 season. Bill Self (who is arguably the best coach in men's CBB) took Hunter Dickinson and had a 10 loss season. In 24 seasons as HC of a high major team (Illinois + Kansas), he's had only 3 different 10 loss seasons; 2024 is one of them. KU is currently 22-10. Imagine KU without Hunter Dickinson. You don't have to. Did you see how badly KU got blasted in the Big 12 Tournament by mediocre Cincinnati when KU was without Hunter Dickinson and Kevin McCullar? It's basically 2024 Michigan.
Talent acquisition is vitally important to all levels of success. I liked Juwan Howard swinging for the fences but Calipari's approach to HS recruiting shouldn't have been his approach at Michigan. And because that approach failed, he was always relying on the transfer portal to fix the deficit and it never came to fruition despite Juwan's best intentions. (Thanks, UM Admissions.)
Perhaps this should be a diary entry but I'll share it here.
My opinion: I didn't like how the Michigan fanbase quickly turned on Juwan Howard.
In retrospect, it's no surprise given that this is the same Michigan fanbase that wanted to fire Jim Harbaugh.
"What will change in 1 year?!?!" they asked.
Turns out A LOT.
And I can pull up the receipts. I already put a clownsuit on ThadMattasagoblin. I can do it for many more MGobloggers. (The Internet is truly forever thanks to sites like Archive.is or Wayback Machine.)
It's the same Michigan fanbase that was pissed at Warde Manuel for not firing Jim Harbaugh in 2020 and then was pissed at Warde Manuel for not being able to retain Jim Harbaugh in 2024 (even though it was clear that Harbaugh badly wants to win a Super Bowl). The Michigan fanbase talks out of both sides of its collective mouth. The notion that there's something special about the Michigan fanbase relative to other fanbases is horseshit. That was painfully obvious in how it talked (and still talks) about Paterno vs Schembechler. Both men failed to be leaders in things that matter infinitely more than football.
Also, all this talk from the Michigan fanbase about how Juwan Howard inherited a great team. No. He inherited a great program but not a great team. That's an important distinction. 3 starters (Charles Matthews, Jordan Poole, and Iggy) from the 2019 team left. 2 of those 3 were underclassmen.
Michigan Admissions knee-capped Juwan Howard by not letting him get 2 all-American caliber players (Terrence Shannon Jr, Caleb Love).
Timeline of events:
1. Moussa Diabate leaves because NIL can't go to foreign players. Michigan has a big hole at the PF spot because a talented international player (expected to be multi-year player) chooses to be OAD.
2. Juwan Howard tries to get Terrence Shannon Jr but is denied.
3. Michigan loses many close games, doesn't make NCAAT, and lacks someone exactly like Terrence Shannon Jr. at the hybrid SF/PF spot.
4. Hunter Dickinson leaves because he thinks Michigan doesn't have enough to win. He's not wrong.
5. Juwan Howard tries to get Caleb Love and gets screwed. Caleb Love having enough to get into Arizona but not Michigan is HORSE CRAP.
Think of all the close losses we've had the past 2 seasons. Those 2-3 players would've made a difference. Many games are decided in a 4-7 point spread. Yeah, they would've flipped many results.
In an alternate timeline, Juwan Howard gets Terrence Shannon Jr, Michigan makes the 2023 NCAAT as a 23-8/24-7 regular season team (so before BTT), Shannon returns for another season, Hunter Dickinson stays, Michigan gets Caleb Love, 2024 Michigan plays like a 1 or 2 seed (26-5/27-4) and is a Final Four contender. (Yeah, yeah..."spare me the if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle" posts.)
It's amazing how 1 transfer portal snafu had such a horrific chain of events.
FYI: Juwan isn't the first coach to take over a program 2 years removed from a National Championship runner-up finish. Coach K took over Duke in 1980-1981. Duke was 2 years removed from losing to Kentucky in 1978 NCAAT Final in St. Louis (because Jack Givens was on FIRE and scored 40+ points).
Look up Coach K's first 5 seasons at Duke (especially the first 3). And then look at year 6. (i've linked his wiki page for convenience.) It's amazing that Duke's AD Tom Butters didn't buckle to the pressure of Duke's major donors. And back then, nearly all players stayed 4 years. So Coach K inherited super talented players like Gene Banks and Jim Spanarkel from the start and struggled because they didn't fit his preferred system (attacking man-to-man defense).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Krzyzewski#College
I don't know if Juwan Howard would've been able to engineer a turnaround. But Michigan fans knowing that UM Admissions knee-capped Juwan Howard on 2 elite players and then acting surprised that his tenure collapsed? I find that annoying. Juwan isn't without faults but there's no doubt that he got sabotaged by UMAdmissions with its goofy graduate transfer vs upperclassman dichotomy.
And spare me the "he wasn't classy" nonsense. Our in-state rivals have that prick Tom Izzo as HC. Izzo abuses refs every game with his tirades. And there's many instances of him going overboard and chewing out (or even trying to manhandle) his own players.
Juwan shouldn't have slapped the Wisconsin dipshit. The Mark Turgeon confrontation was a nothingburger. And Sanderson was a he-said, he-said affair that didn't turn physical even if it was confrontational.
Winning cures everything. Just ask Michigan Football. And Juwan Howard didn't win enough. But he also didn't get to stock enough ammo in the arsenal to win enough.
UNREAL comeback by Michigan WBB to beat ranked Indiana WBB.
If we hadn't already, this win should've earned us a spot in the WNCAAT.
I wonder: do our own fans know or remember that Steve Fisher had a brutal 1991 season?
Michigan went 14-15 season that season and was 8th out of 10 teams in the conference (back when the Big 10 was actually 10 teams).
Fab Five class led to success the next 3 seasons. We lost to the (eventual) National Champions each of those 3 seasons...dammit.
We anticipated what the…
Yes!
We anticipated what the objections would be and came up with solutions.
He still wasn't convinced at the time.
But at least he came around. It's still not clear to me what led to his change of heart but better late than never. That said, it sure would've been nice to work with a proactive AD who can see around the corner, ya know?
The DC doesn't need to be an elite recruiter if the position coaches recruit very well and sign the right players for the system.
Yep. I would like to know where the notion Don Martindale isn't a good DC originated. He's smart, demanding, experienced, and no-nonsense.
Ravens defense under Martindale was (very) good but dipped to decent in his final season.
The problem was the high number of injuries to starters which forced Wink to rely on backups.
Also, Lamar Jackson was injured and that forced backup QB Tyler Huntley to start. And any defense will tire more easily if the offense can't sustain drives to stay on the field. Generally, fewer snaps for defense = better results.
Source: Family members who are hardcore Baltimore Ravens fans.
Yeah, isn't it hilarious that some Michigan fans hated Warde for not firing Jim Harbaugh after the irregular COVID 2020 season?
Now they want him fired for not finding a way to retain Jim Harbaugh at Michigan.
/Like I said above, I don't like Warde Manuel but I have principled reasons.
I graduated from Michigan in the 2000s. I used to be on 247Sports as Frank Chuck (not Chuck Frank). But I stopped posting when the board was closed. The Michigan board was one of the last open boards on the 247Sports network. That changed permanently after the merger with Scout.com. (I don't know if I can even log into that account any more.)
I did take courses at U of M Ross and Law School for the combined MBA & JD dual degree program. But I took an extended hiatus to pursue an opportunity...
I won't go into all of them but 3 bigs ones were the following:
1. "Transformational, not transactional"
2. Uncertain ROI
3. Questions surrounding lack of guidelines or guardrails
Btw, Warde Manuel isn't totally in control. Some of it is also lack of clear leadership from the regents. At times, Manuel is a mouthpiece and not a leader with total agency. (And I find that very annoying. We need an adaptive pro-NIL AD who will advocate relentlessly for *his* (or her) vision of Michigan Athletics and implement it with a clear, actionable plan.)
Hilariously, ThadMattasagoblin is the same user who started the Fire Harbaugh thread on November 28th, 2020.
https://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/fire-harbaugh-10
The internet is forever. (It's funny to see some of the board regulars argued for firing Harbaugh.)
"It ain't getting any better next year." - ThadMattasagoblin
It did in fact get better - MUCH BETTER - the following year.
/I don't like Warde Manuel but some of my reasons are different than the reasons of reactionary Michigan fans looking to scapegoat someone whenever something negative happens. I had a role in pitching a NIL collective to Warde which he turned down. It was funny to see him come around less than 12 months later...
//Michigan needs an aggressive, visionary Athletic Director. Unfortunately, Warde Manuel thus far has not shown anything to indicate he fits that description.
I hope things…
Hey Blue@LSU,
I hope things are well.
Please send me an email to [email protected]. There are some questions I want to ask about prior diary entries you've done.
(I'll ask a few questions on other topics to check if it's you or an impostor emailing me.)
Regards,
Frank
"The idea that MOST Michigan fans wanted the Prodigal Son fired is absurd, bullshit revisionist history."
That's definitely not how I remember it.
I remember having serious, protracted arguments here with many know-it-all fans.
We can revisit some threads on MGoBlog. Here's a thread that popped up right away.
Oh...would you look at that...some very frequent well known MGoBlog posters on that thread. Interesting...
https://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/fire-harbaugh-10
@bo_lives: Would you like me to link more threads? The postgame threads were particularly nasty and vicious. They reeked of anti-Harbaugh sentiment. Perhaps you need to be reminded of the things that were said and repeated against Harbaugh during and after the COVID season. We can also revisit preseason threads before 2021...
"What did Warde contribute to the national championship?"
I'm not a fan of Warde Manuel but I would say Warde not firing Jim Harbaugh when most of the fanbase wanted him fired is undeniably a big feather in Warde Manuel's cap. Warde not being reactionary and not yielding to massive pressure was a major positive in the long-run. The 2nd chance he gave Harbaugh cannot be understated.
Many Michigan fans might not want to admit that they once wanted Harbaugh fired (0-5 against OSU, 3-3 vs MSU, 2-4 in COVID season) but they know who they are. Many of those posts on MGoBlog can be easily accessed with a Google search. Some of those posts are still up on Twitter/X. (The internet is forever.)
I didn't understand why Kirk Campbell was fired by ODU. He significantly improved ODU's offense based on the numbers. Can someone shed some light?
Also, Jesse Minter was DC at Vandy and Vandy had a terrible defense. That didn't end up mattering. We need to look at fit...
Agree. Carr should've put his foot down and advocated for someone.
Heck, Lloyd Carr's decision to hire Scott Loeffler over Jim Harbaugh for the QB coaching job was also an egregious mistake that changed trajectory of Michigan Football program.
2. Crisler
3…
1. Yost
2. Crisler
3. Harbaugh
4. Carr
5. Schembechler
6. Moeller (my personal favorite, his firing changed Michigan's long-term trajectory for the worse)
I value winning National Championship a lot. Hence, Schembechler is #5 behind the first 4 who won it all. If this was just modern Michigan coaches (so 1960s and on then Schembechler would be 3rd on my list.
Schembechler had many National Championship caliber teams but could never find a way to go perfect. One year a reliable kicker missed a makeable kick. Another year, a sure-handed WR dropped a (TD) pass that would've sealed the game or won the game. Another year, the beef with refs led to a phantom call. There was always something.
I want Juwan Howard to succeed so I hope you're right.
Most basketball games are decided by a few plays. After the loss to Villanova in the 2022 NCAAT Sweet 16, Juwan Howard's Michigan has struggled with winning close games.
We're not far off from being a winning program but he must figure out why his teams are having trouble finishing off teams regardless of venue.
Uh...the previous coach (Beilein) had a well-deserved and well-earned reputation for:
(1) being a poor defensive coach
(2) his teams consistently getting outrebounded on the glass
So much so that he was forced to hire a "DC" to fix the defense and rebounding.
Not sure how our fans forgot this...
From skimming the comments below, it's kinda obvious who did and who didn't read Josh Henschke's post.
So I'm copying and posting the relevant part here because it seems some posters can't be bothered to read.
M&BR can confirm through multiple sources that a physical altercation between Howard and an assistant DID NOT occur on Thursday as originally rumored.
- Howard is NOT set to step down or be fired, which has been confirmed through multiple sources.
Sources have used the words 'unequivocally false' and 'all nonsense' when asked about the rumors surrounding Howard.
And yet a bunch of pearl-clutching idiots are running wild with speculation. It seems this was quite the hitjob on Juwan Howard.
It seems many Michigan…
Yep.
It seems many Michigan fans have forgotten about the many midseason turnarounds we had under John Beilein to make the NCAAT:
2011 (11-9)
2014 (6-4)
2016 (6-3)
2017 (12-7)
2018 (7-3)
This Michigan team blew 2 late leads at home (Long Beach State, Indiana). Win those 2 games and Michigan is 7-3 instead of 5-5. But we are what our record says we are (to echo Bill Parcells).
I'm hopeful that Juwan Howard can engineer a mid-season turnaround.
The most shocking thing about this Michigan team is that its defense is not good to put it nicely. (Michigan has 122nd ranked defense on Ken Pom and Bart Torvik but a top 20 offense on both.) Many expected defense to be this team's calling card.
Source close to the program just told Josh [Henschke] it's "all nonsense". With all the smoke seems unlikely nothing happened, but probably not physical. Which again, would explain Howard being at the game.