in town for free camps
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|4 days 9 hours ago||I'll take it||
I like the Kings' owner, but I very much question if he knows what he's doing.
|4 days 9 hours ago||That all makes sense||
I appreciate your thoughts here - you helped me clarify what I was saying. And apologies for my jerkishness earlier. I have a bad habit of sometimes letting work stress affect my posts on the blog, which isn't an excuse. It's just a (bad) reason.
|6 days 9 hours ago||no,please feel free to respomd||
I apparently don't know where to respond to you either either (though I try a bit below), and it would be nice to know where to start.
As for your desire to talk about real-world examles rather than hypotheticals, you my want to Google "Jamel Deam Ohio State." The fact that you haven't heard of him doesn't make his situation any less illustrative of one of the quandaries this issue presents.
I will say this: I should have framed the question as "When, if ever, should a program pressure a player into a medical redshirt?" The above is written from the point of view of the school.
As for the notion that it's unethical to even consider ramifications of a medical hardship other than those directly relating to the player, that seems almost willfully myopic (it's also nothing but a conclusory statement and a value judgment, which is fine but not convincing). A great many people benefit quite a lot when Michigan has a winning football team. A program would be derelict to not at least consider the effect a medical hardship might have on a program. So, yes, I did consider that. And then, in four out of five situations, I said I at least lean toward believing the school should not press a medical hardship on a kid.
|6 days 10 hours ago||"morally bankrupt"||
That's a perfectly valid viewpoint. But you may well not be in the majority here, so saying "this is morally bankrupt" and walking away doesn't accomplish much of anything.
As for Michigan not being Alabama's competitor, they are competing with them for recruits right now. And they played them a couple of years ago. There's a pretty good case to be made that they are competitors.
|1 week 5 hours ago||Isn't it obvious that I'm talking at least in part...||
...about cutting players to make room for other players? Why else would we be talking about this? No one is arguing that Michigan's doctors (or Pipkins' outside doctors) are wrong in a medical sense (because we have no idea).
As for this:
But what seemed to be a focus of your OP was what the player could do for the team, how many receptions and yards the team can expect from the player (and these are probably WAGs), and that what the team could expect from the player would affect their decision to medical hardship him. That is your ethical problem - that particular factor should not effect the decision to medical hardship the player.
I argued after each example that the player should not be forced to take a medical hardship except in the case of the player facing a debilitating injury. Yes, I considered other factors, but then I said they were trumped by SU's duty to the player. Your self-righteous lecture is based on nothing but me thinking things through out loud.
While I take your point that every player faces a debilitating injury to some extent, some players (like Steve Young at the end of his NFL career) are much more prone to suffering such injuries b/c of preexisting conditions. Here, I addressed possible risks to players and how increased risks should change a school's approach to a medical hardship, and you are brushing this off as if the risk to a guy who's had five concussions is the same as the risk to a guy who's had none because, hey, everyone can get hurt.
Either the player can be cleared medically or not; what he can deliver on the field is ethically (for the coaching staff's decision) completely irrelevant.
This dodges the issue. Jamel Dean was not cleared by OSU's doctors, but he was medically cleared by Dr. James Andrews. The same thing seems to have happened with Pipkins. What do you do in those situations?
|1 week 6 hours ago||Does one say "retire" when a vampire...||
...begins a long sleep in its coffin?
|1 week 21 hours ago||What's the feeling that's...||
...somewhere between melancholy and congested?
|1 week 1 day ago||No||
Rigid as in not letting Eron Harris bring his friends on a visit.
|1 week 1 day ago||I don't mind this post||
I think Brown may have committed to Michigan at one point (BA's tweet and one or two other things suggested this). And we know Battle loved Michigan recently. And as much as I love Coach Beilein, I sometimes get the sense he's overly rigid when it comes to recruiting (he wouldn't let Eron Harris bring his friends on his Michgian visit, for example). It may not just be bad luck that Michigan missed on Brown like they did and that they now face the potential loss of Battle.
|1 week 1 day ago||That's not what I said||
I said the consideration that dwarfs all others is whether the risk to the player's health is worth what *he* might gain from playing. What the team might gain is a very small issue compared to that.
As for taking potential production into account, I do argue that it is easier to justify pushing out a guy with little potential (this is undeniable from a utilitarian perspective). But I also say that, despite this, I don't want teams to cut guys unless they're facing the risk of debilitating injury (I argued that teams are only free to force a medical on the player in Situation No.5). I say above that the teams's ethical duty to the player - as far as his scholarship goes - trumps all other considerations.
|1 week 1 day ago||"Nick Saban thinking"||
Isn't asking whether someone is healthy enough to contribute a form of asking about his ability to produce? What's the difference between contribution and production?
|1 week 2 days ago||yes||
I meant medical hardship.
As for the medical staff, they're going to tell you if a guy can play and maybe even give you a sense of how well he can play. But that doesn't tell you what you should do.
|1 week 2 days ago||yeah - good point||
I think someone in Coach Harbaugh's position ulltimately has to trust his judgment and the judgment of team doctors. But it's easy to imagine hard feelings in these situations. Even badly hurt boxers usually don't ask to stop a fight. Their corner has to throw in the towel.
|1 week 2 days ago||Hmmm...||
That sounds like the sort of thing a Hitler-loving communist Muslim fanatic would say, so I don't know if I can agree.
|1 week 2 days ago||No apology necessary!||
This may be the most valuable post in the thread.
|1 week 3 days ago||Ah - gotcha||
I didn't follow at first. That strikes me as a plausible explanation, although I have to question whether Harbaugh would essentially cut a version of Pipkins who's, say, 60% of his former self so that a walk-on could attend camp. Does Michigan really need a 14th receiver (or whatever the number is) that badly?
|1 week 3 days ago||I said this above, but....||
...I wonder if the "not being fair to your teammates" line was about Michigan not having a scholarship for Kerridge or one of the Glasgows if Pipkins didn't take a medical.
And I think it's fall camp when you have to be at 85 scholarships. I think you can have more than 85 prior to fall camp during a certain window of time.
|1 week 3 days ago||I wouldn't look down on the points||
My understanding is that Brian gives you a new car if you hit 20,000. At least I hope that's true, because I've budgeted as if it is.
|1 week 3 days ago||right||
Pipkins never could have made room for Williams by himself, because Williams is going to be at his new school for at least two years in all likelihood. Pipkins's scholarship + an unused scholarship in '16 could have made room for Williams.
|1 week 3 days ago||This is a very fair, reasonable, and honest post||
I'm bothering to say this because I assume you'll be negged just for being an OSU fan.
|1 week 3 days ago||good point||
That could even explain why Michigan thought it might be worth it to recruit Williams at one point.
EDIT: Having thought more about it, I don't believe that does explain anything. Michigan told Williams they didn't have room this week and told Pipkins this week he was cleared to transfer to a given set of schools. Pipkins alone couldn't have been the reason there wasn't room for Williams, because Pipkins is already leaving.
|1 week 3 days ago||back-dating||
I think that's only relevant to bringing on more than 25 guys in a given class. I don't think it helps with the 85 scholarship limit. I do not think you are absolutely prohibited from having 85 guys at all times - I believe you have some time between February and fall camp to sort that out.
|1 week 3 days ago||"not fair to your teammates"||
I wonder if Kerridge or one of the Glasgows wouldn't have a scholarship without Pipkins taking a medical There seems to be some debate (see above) over the scholarship count.
|1 week 3 days ago||I wondered about the concussions||
Michigan isn't going to be able to release the medical info they have re: Pipkins, so we don't know what their doctors said about it. I'm not saying Pipkins is lying about it, but we may not have the full story.
|1 week 3 days ago||I'd be inclined to assume the worst if Jhonny Williams...||
...hadn't just been told there's no room at the inn. Given that he was told that, I don't know what to think. As Brian says, why push a guy out so that you have an unused scholarship?
|1 week 4 days ago||Alabama can take guys from Michigan||
But they can't beat the Wolverines for New Jersey guys!
|1 week 4 days ago||This reinforces my hope that...||
...Peppers can get the ball a couple of times a game. I realize that's not as easy as it sounds, but who else is going to scare a defense?
|1 week 4 days ago||I think it dates back to...||
...breaking that arm in the middle of the 1984 season, but I suppose I don't know that he didn't injure it another time too.
|1 week 4 days ago||Yeah||
Michigan has seemingly been dangerous at WR since at least the early '90s - and maybe that dates all the way back to AC. But it's hard to imagine that being the case this year. I think the best we can realistically hope for this year is 17-14 games, because I don't see the Michigan offense scoring 28 points on many decent teams.
|1 week 4 days ago||He can also presumably...||
...afford to go back to Michigan and get his degree if he wants to.