You really should change the title of the thread to something like, "7 year old shot dead by Police in Detroit". Sadly, 7 year olds getting shot dead in Detroit (athough very sad and senseless) sometimes barely raise an eyebrow as the killing in the Detroit knows no age. Sadly some people have gotten immune to hearing this type of news coming out of Detroit. But a 7 year getting shot by a Police Officer is quite alarming indeed.... and attention getting news even coming out of a city like Detroit.
My prayers go out to the little angel and her family. Truly a tragedy.
His ceiling is super high as a quarterback.... both running and passing. He is just now starting to tap into his potential as a passer. It is scary to think what he can become.
He can be a better version of Michael Vick, Pat White, Vince Young or Tim Tebow. Certainly equally as good. It is all before him.
The guy had minimal quarterback coaching before arriving at Michigan. And his progress as a passer from last year to this year is as stark as night and day. It boggles the mind to think how good he can be as Junior if he continues his arc of development.
A thing that has to be frustrating for the coaches though is how Tate continues to make the same mental mistakes that plagued him last year. I think, in the mind of the coaches, Tate had 2 turnovers today.
That ball that went straight through the defender's hands.... which should have been an easy pick.... and that ill advised pitchout that he tossed up for grabs (fumble).
When the coaches go over film.... they will count it as turning the ball over twice. And last year, turnovers killed us.
The thing that is/was so impressive about Denard today is that virtually all of his passes would have been completed if it was the first D. Passes on the numbers don't change. Passes hitting the player in stride are not necessarily predicated upon the D. Those passes, I believe, being so good.... are completed, regardless of the D that was out there.
Denard also had 4 touchdown passes if TRob rob doesn't go down at the 1 yard line.
Oddly enough it was Tate who benefitted from poor defensive play. That pass to Mike Jones went right through his hands and should have been intercepted. Against a better D, that is a definite pick.
Denard didn't have any of those today.
Kid looked great out there today. It is amazing how much Denard has improved. In all due respect, I think anyone who thinks something else is going on besides Denard simply being good enough to ascend to the #1 spot based purely on his ability as a quarterback.... has simply not been willing to believe what they have seen or heard about.
I wasn't either.... not until today. After seeing Denard today, I am a believer.
Not that anyone would like to see that happen, but if he leaves, he leaves. No man is above the team. Percieved threats (whether real or imaginary) of a possible transfer should in no way shape or form, play any role in the decision making of our football coaches.
UM football will not be held hostage to any player.
Not to take anything away from Tate but it looks like both Robinson and Gardner give us the kind of attack that Rich Rod is known for. An attack where the QB is just as deadly with his feet as with his arm.... and vice versa.
I don't think we have seen that yet. Not until now. It was fun to watch.
He did it with smoke and mirrors (and sheer will power) the first two/three rounds. But you can't take that much time off and not have it effect you. Eventually in a 4 round golf tournament - especially on a course as hard as Augusta National - the rust will show up, i.e the flaws in your game will show up.
I expect this loss to fuel him the rest of the year though. This loss will stay with him and fuel a charge that will lead Tiger to atleast 1 major this year.... maybe 2. Unfortunately, one of those won't be The Masters.
The gap is too far for Tiger to make up. As much as I would like to see him win (what a great story that would be), I believe the winner will come out of the Westwood/Phil pairing. Those guys have experience and know how to play that course. They wont come back too far. And Tiger wont make enough birdies without sprinkling in his fair share of bogies too.
It will be close but in the end, the gap will just enough for Phil or Westwood to hang-on for victory.
To whoever said that Tate will start.... thanks for giving us that little bit of information Coach Rodriguez.
Nobody knows who will start. Period. Except for the coaches. And like it or not, they have made it clear that there is, in fact, a quarterback competition.
To say otherwise is simply giving an opinion devoid of the facts as they exist today.
To make it easier for the reader. When I draft official documents I rarely, if ever, use ellipses. But on the net or while texting.... that is another matter. In short, I consider it my own unique "casual" style of writing. The Doc's own unique brand. You should try it sometime ;)
In the final analysis, when everything shakes out, in the end, I believe BOTH WILL PLAY. That said, I do find it intriguing to think what Denard may be able to do as a starter.... a role that would allow him to develop rhythm and get into a flow. Unlike last year where he had the pressure of coming in.... instantly producing.... or face the prospect of riding the bench for the rest of the half. That had to make the guy jumpy.
And I do like the prospect of keeping Tate fresh.... preventing him from getting all banged up.... and seeing what he can do when fully healthy. And I think that objective is better served with him not having the bulk of the quarterbacking duties.... whether that be as a starter or subbing in as a reserve.
Well, if it wasn't an invasive procedure, the kid still had major problems with his shoulder last year. And something is obviously wrong with him because (from camp reports) he is not throwing as well as he did last year.
I assume he must still be recovering. Maybe he is not. I think it is almost better to hope that he is recovering than face the hard truth that he may have simply regressed.
Quite honestly, none of us know the answers. But I trust that the coaches do. If Denard is running with the 1s then so be it. The coaches must believe that he gives us the best chance to win. And if that is the case, then I am "all in" for that.
The latent premise of the OP's post is that Tate is the same or better than he was last year. And in theory he would be. But I don't think his injuries and surgery have been properly taken into account.
Rare is it that a running back will come off of knee surgery and not lose ground in trying to keep his starting role as running back.... especially if there is a capable back-up waiting in the wings. The same goes for a quarterback and his shoulder.
From all reports, Tate's ball does not look good this year. From those who have watched camp.... Denard is throwing the best ball.... followed by Devin. And reportedly Tate's lack of zip has lead to a number of picks. The ball just not getting where it needs to be fast enought. This, however, is understandable and should cause no major concern. Tate is coming off of surgery afterall.
We all like Tate. And I know he has alot of fans.... but even his most loyal fans.... if they truly have this kid's best interest at heart, should want to see this guy healthy. Keep running him out there without time to properly heal, and you run the risk of killing whatever future the kid may have in the game.
God forbid he take one or two more shots on that shoulder while it is still rounding into form.
Another way to look at is, do you want the most durable quarterback, 1) starting, or 2) being the reserve?
I tend to think that it is better to have the most durable quarterback starting. Keeps the continuity of the offense and gives the QB the chance to grow game by game.
Not saying that we know for sure whether Denard is more durable.... but we do know that Tate has had his injury problems.
Tate coming in for spot duty can keep him fresh and preserve him so that he can last the entire season. Moreover, as someone said already.... in looking at the film, it looks like Tate has lost something off his fastball. His ball really seems to lack zip. Coming off of surgery can do that. And coming off of surgery, maybe taking it slow his Sophmore year will be better for his overall career.... give him a chance to heal up, get better, get well.
Another way to look at is, do you want the most durable quarterback, 1) starting, or 2) being the reserve?
I tend to think that it is better to have the most durable quarterback starting. Keeps the continuity of the offense and gives the QB the chance to grow game by game.
Not saying that we know for sure whether Denard is more durable.... but we do know that Tate has had his injury problems.
Tate coming in for spot duty can keep him fresh and preserve him so that he can last the entire season. Moreover, as someone said already.... in looking at the film, it looks like Tate has lost something off his fastball. His ball really seems to lack zip. Coming off of surgery can do that. And coming off of surgery, maybe taking it slow his Sophmore year will be better for his overall career.... give him a chance to heal up, get better, get well.
The article raises some very good points. Given everything, we really didn't see the true Denard last year. And it is often between year 1 and year 2 that a player takes giant strides. If Denard is the man now, I say more power to him. The kid has worked his tail off and earned it.
Tim Tebow was not a great passer. Same with Vince Young, Pat White and Rick Leach. If Denard can be a serviceable passer.... with his ability to run.... and in this offense.... the kid can be a terror.
Conway is faster than he looked (at times) on his game film. I read somewhere that he was nursing an injury at various times during his season and based upon the disparity with how fast he has looked on the camp circuit vs. his game film, I believe that to be true.
Based on camp film, the kid looks to be a legit 4.55 guy. That is pleny fast for someone 6'3" or 6'4". That height/speed ratio is a rare blend. Combine that with long arms, big hands, a 37 inch vertical and he plays even taller.
Barring something unforseen, imo, he should be on track for 4 star status. The guy is a rare blend of tools combined with hands like fly paper.
This is a big time add to the Michigan program.
It is now being reported that Denard is now running with the 1's.
I don't know how true that information is but that is what's being reported over on Rivals.
Just from the video.... 3 things stood out to me:
1) Denard has progressed,
2) Tate did not look very good, and
3) Devin is thinking instead of reacting right now.
All of that said, it is just a video. I am sure that there is a lot more going on with these guys than what was shown. My gut tells me that Tate will be just fine and that he has probably progressed as well. It is just that he didn't look very good on that film.
Denard, however, is the one that is going to surprise some people this year. Not just going off that film but from other reports that I have read, Denard has not only taken a step forward..... but a couple of steps forward as a quarterback.
He is sure of himself, sure of what he is doing in the offense, and is throwing the ball with both zip and accuracy. That is great to see because the kid has worked his tail off.
Terry has the potential to be a true difference maker with his size, speed and quicks. And Terrance could surprise.
But I must say, as someone who has spent a great deal of time on the UNC campus. UNC is going to make things interesting. Butch can sell with the best of them and that UNC campus is among the most beautiful and picturesque in the country. And for the kicker, UNC is academically on par with the beloved.
Hopefully these guys will see the bigger picture.... tradition essentially second to none here at Michigan, playing time and the chance to be a part of something great here.
Derrick Williams and Justin King will always enjoy unyielding loyalty from the PSU faithful for how they played key, pivotal roles in righting that program. Hopefully these players realize that they now have that same opportunity with respect to Michigan.
It may not be probable.... but it is certainly possible. With athletes, you never want to put anything past someone. Especially not someone with Denard's explosive athleticism and playmaking abilities.
I wrote this earlier:
I expect Shoelace to be a completely different QB this year. The difference should be like night and day. Having missed Spring Ball, the game was moving too fast for him last year.... causing him to make poor decisions with the ball. His arm was never the problem. He can be a very good passer. His problem was his decision making. Forcing the ball into doubles and triples and throwing off his backfoot at times when under the rush. GETTING SPRING BALL UNDER HIS BELT WILL CAUSE THE GAME TO SLOW DOWN FOR HIM, thus, greatly improving his decision making.
Expect big things from Shoelace at QB this year. With DG, Tate and Shoelace, I love our stable of quarterbacks.
Shoelace seems like such a level headed, down to earth, fun loving kid without the slightest hint of ego. This is the kind of team first player that you can build championships around. I agree.... it is good to have Shoelace here.
And I expect Shoelace to be a completely different QB this year. The difference should be like night and day. Having missed Spring Ball, the game was moving too fast for him last year.... causing him to make poor decisions with the ball. His arm was never the problem. He can be a very good passer. His problem was his decision making. Forcing the ball into doubles and triples and throwing off his backfoot at times when under the rush. GETTING SPRING BALL UNDER HIS BELT WILL CAUSE THE GAME TO SLOW DOWN FOR HIM, thus, greatly improving his decision making.
Expect big things from Shoelace at QB this year. With DG, Tate and Shoelace, I love our stable of quarterbacks.
Ray Vinopal has short little alligator arms and stubbly little legs. Stubby arms and stubby legs. Both will limit his range and effectiveness.
A defensive player's arm reach is very very important. That is why scouts often comment on the wingspan of a player. That is often the difference between a play being made and a play being missed.
Vinopal was okay as a throw-in if we were running out of committable "elite prospects" on our board. But now with Parker and Knight still on the board, Vinopal has to go. No room for career backups.
The other thing about Vinopal is he has those little, short, stubby arms. His reach is limited. And that is another severe handicap for a defender. Don't believe me? Go look at his picture. The guy is all head, neck and torso.... with stubby/stumpy arms and legs. God bless him.... he seems like a good kid.... but an athlete he is not. He is stumpy.
Good look to him and all the best to him in the future but it is time to move on from him and add better prospects.
Kid has the legs of someone 5'6". He is our lowest rated prospect on Rivals. Only a 2 Star. He will be a career backup. Time to give him the Barnes treatment and add Parker and Knight.
Regarding his legs.... they don't look like stumps at all.... unlike Vinopal. I actually like this pickup. Well done RR. Kid has a frame that you build muscle around without losing speed. He looks athletic. And yes, the kid looks proportioned. Lol. Like an athlete.
Welcome aboard Jake!
We need to grey shirt or give the Barnes treatment to Vinopal. This guy and his stumpy little legs will always be a career back-up at best. He looks like Fred Flintstone with that big torso and stubby little legs.
Decent straigtline speed does not make a person an athlete. His 5'10" or 5'11" body with legs that belong to a person who is 5'6" will always limit what he can do athletically. We can do better. We have to make room for big time prospects and playmakers. Vinopal doesn't fit the bill. Stiff hips and stumpy legs limit athleticismm. That is why is his only offers are from Kent State and Bowling Green.
I say bring in Knight, Parker and whoever else we have room for. And get rid of Vinopal.
Ray is a 2 Star on Rivals. He has little stubby legs. He may be 5'10" or 5'11", but he has the legs of someone 5'7".
His short legs will limit his mobility and athleticism. That is why if you look at this film, he looks very stiff. Very tight hips and stubby legs.
It is his frame.... not necessarily his height... that is the problem. He is not proportioned properly. And his strange body proportions limit his athletic ability.
I am going to start calling him, "stubby". Lol.
His only offers were from Kent State and Bowling Green. Hardly football powers. There is reason why rivals is sooo low on this guy. He deserves it. He is bound to be a situational role player AT BEST for his entire career at UM.
He is the guy to gray shirt or give the Barnes treatment to.
........
No need to go back and forth about this. I personally like Avery as a commit. And I think Vinopal is a player that can possibly be developed.... so I am not all down on him. I just think he is more of a project.
I just happen to think Avery is clearly the better prospect.... he has both Big 10 and Pac 10 offers.... and clearly impressed the coaches at camp. Vinopal only has offers from Kent State and Bowling Green. But he could be a sleeper. Reasonable minds can differ.
Moreover, Vinopal has those short, stubby legs. So it is his frame as much as his lack of height that will pose a problem for him. I just don't see Vinopal being anything more than a situational role player for us throughout his entire career here.
And apparently Rivals feels the same way.
And Rivals rates Vinopal a 2 star prospect.... our lowest rated prospect. And Rivals says that Vinopal is only 5'10".
Moreover, it is not so much that Vinopal is somewhat short for a safety.... it is his frame. He has short, stubby legs. Those limit athleticism. Thus, that is one of the reasons why he looks so stiff on film.... those short, stubby legs. He really has the legs of someone who is 5'7".
Vinopal is our lowest rated recruit on Rivals. Avery is a 3 star.
Vinopal is short, stiff and light in weight. He has offers from the those super powers of football.... Kent State and Bowling Green. That's it!
Avery was committed to Stanford of the Pac 10. Are you idiot enough to tell me that Avery should be grey shirted in favor of Vinopal?
I hear Avery is very good corner. I think that Vinopal has to be the logical choice for odd man out if anyone is. Quite possibly our lowest rated recruit. Rather short (5'10"), light in weight and stiff for a safety. I think Vinopal has to be a prime candidate for a grey shirt.
Competition makes everyone better. This can only help our overall quarterbacking.
Moreover, the kid earned it.... and deserved it. Glad Inkster got their act together and put this kid first before stagnating him in administrative bureaucracy. Kudos to both Gardner and Inkster on this one.
Until further notice, Denard is a quarterback. I really expect Denard to make tremendous strides at the quarterback position. With Spring practice under his belt, the game will finally slow down for him.
Denard is physically gifted. The mistakes he made at the quarterback position are things that are correctable with training and repetition. I fully expect Denard to blossom as a quarterback. Moreover, I think this coaching staff expects Denard to blossom as a quarterback.
When I saw that word, I tried to correct it but this site wouldn't let me edit for some reason. I guess you only have so much time.... or until someone responds to your post. Smart arse.... you know the word is "inevitably". Lol. But it's all good Magnus.... I had that one coming.
Magnus.... it sounds like you are buying the hype AGAINST our own players.... instead of FOR them.
I have yet to see a recruiting expert say that Devin is raw.... not one. Devin is a proven passer who throws the ball with great accuracy and touch.... according to Ex.NFL coach Sam Wyche and other scouts who have watched him play.
Moreover, I trust our coaches. They have shown that they are great evaluators of talent. Ricardo was a stud before who was not stiff before he committed to Michigan.... I don't see why that should change after his commitment.
MRob was injured part of the year but when he did play his play was exceptional. Didn't he have something like 22 tackles in a single game? Moreover, he performed very well on the camp circuit. Lastly, his junior year was good.
Devin is a 5 star on Scout. And Devin is a very good passer.... very accurate according to the reports coming out of the allstar practices. Combine that with 6'4" frame and excellent speed, and Devin has every bit the change of being a 1st round draft pick when he graduates.
Follow the trend. A player commits to Michigan and evitably drops in the rankings. That is not by happenstance.
Gardner had a touchdown pass in the all-star game, averaged over 4 yards per carry, and completed somewhere around 50% of his passes (from what I recall). Not an exceptional showing but certainly solid.
Additionally, because of the straw vote on starters, he had limited opportunities in the game. But did almost as well as can be expected considering limited snaps and poor blocking. HE CERTAINLY DID NOTHING THAT SHOULD CAUSE HIM TO DROP.
Moreover, from all reports, he was extremely impressive in the practices. Drawing raves from those who saw him play.
What I think is happening is a decided Michigan bias by Rivals. More than a Michigan bias..... a Rich Rod bias. I surmise and suspect that someone there does not want him to succeed.
Ricardo = should be a 4 star
MRob = should be a top 100 player or just on the cusp
Devin = should be a top 50 player if not higher
Cullen = should have maintained his position
JRob = should have maintained his position as a 4 star
Furman = should get a bump up to 4 star status because of his exceptional play in the playoffs and off the chart measurables.... but I'd be willing to bet he won't get that bump
And on it goes....
He could just "fall forward" from the line of scrimmage....that would be 2.0 yards. He doesn't even have to run.... just fall.... that would be 2.0 yards. That is his average per rush.
Even big, tall, pocket passers like Tom Brady average more than 2.0 yards per rush. Averaging 2.0 yards per rush in a running quarterback driven offense is just horrible! Horrible!
Combine that with his weak arm, inaccurate passing, and poor decision making, and it is just a matter of time before this little guy transfers.
He could just "fall forward" from the line of scrimmage....that would be 2.0 yards. He doesn't even have to run.... just fall.... that would be 2.0 yards. That is his average per rush.
Even big, tall, pocket passers like Tom Brady average more than 2.0 yards per rush. Averaging 2.0 yards per rush in a running quarterback driven offense is just horrible! Horrible!
Combine that with his weak arm, inaccurate passing, and poor decision making, and it is just a matter of time before this little guy transfers.
I backed him for about the first 3 or 4 games. And if, and when, he plays next year, I will back him then too. But I must say, after watching him play, I see nothing special about the guy.
2.0 yards per carry won't cut it in this offense. And if you put a hand on the guy.... not an arm but a hand.... he collapses like a house of cards. His arm is weak. He is short.... has to run to one side of the fied or the other to see downfield and throw the ball. Not very accurate except in the dink and dunk short game. And he makes poor decisions.
Count me as not impressed.
I wish him well.... but I think we can do much much better.
Moreover, his ceiling is not very high. I just don't see him getting much better. His limited physical and mental skills will prohibit him from growing substantially as a quarterback.
And he is bratty. Like many of my neighbor's kids here. I just don't care for the Adam James/Tate Forcier type behavior.
Rich kids are important to the University of Michigan. They tend to make great alums. Not that money is everything but it certainly helps. But one of the things I teach my son is remain grounded and to not feel entitled because of the station or status of his parents. I don't see that with Tate. He strikes me as a spoiled, bratty, entitled rich kid.
And his family conducts themselves consistent with this perception. Demanding what they want.... and if they don't get it.... transferring, i.e. taking their ball and running home. And Tate's web site did nothing to mitigate against this perception.... and his sideline antics last year certainly don't work to mitigate against this perception. We don't need prima donnas like this guy as our quarterback. We can do better.
Look, the guy is short. Short and relatively slow. He is so short that he can't see to the second level of receivers UNLESS he runs to one side of the field or the other. That is a huge limitation for any offense. And his limited height and visibility.... combined with him having a weak arm..... causes him to constantly miss receivers at the second level. He missed them all season long. And he missed them badly! Missed them by 5 yards or more. Wasn't even close on his intermediate or deep passes.
The guy is accurate ONLY within the dink and dunk offense that we have to play with him at quarterback. Dink and dunk! Anything downfield and the guy is way off target. HE IS NOT ACCURATE AT ALL. Just about all his touchdown passes were quick, short passes with the receiver having to make plays to get the ball into the endzone.
TATE HAS ALLEGEDLY ALREADY THREATENED TO TRANSFER. And based upon the actions of his parents and brothers, I believe the report. This guy and has family have a history of demanding what they want, and if they dont get it, taking their ball and running home.
Can you say, Craig James??!!
There is a reason why Rich Rod leaked it out that Tate wasn't getting it done in the classroom. A very strange move for a head coach. Even the commentators stated that they thought that was strange.
And there is a reason why Rich Rod calls Tate, "Hollywood". And last time I checked, Hollywood is not in San Diego. It is because of Tate's drama, acting out, bratty behavior and histrionics.... vis a vis Hollywood.
It is obvious to me that Rich Rod doesn't really respect him. And who would if you had to deal with this guy, his family and his sense of entitlement.
Rich kids are always welcome at Michigan. Afterall, they do make great alums. But we don't need spoiled, bratty, entitled rich kids playing quarterback for UM. We need men! Michigan "Men"!
As soon as the cold weather hit, this little guy was bundled up as if he were playing football in the North Pole or something. This little guy can't cut it in the midwest or the Big 10. Time for "Little Man Tate" to do what he and his family do best.... take their ball and run home.
Look, the guy is short. Short and slow. He is so short that he can't see to the second level of receivers UNLESS he runs to one side of the field or the other. That is a huge limitation for any offense. And his limited height and visibility.... combined with him having a weak arm..... causes him to constantly miss receivers at the second level. He missed them all season long. And he missed them badly! Missed them by 5 yards or more. Wasn't even close on his intermediate or deep passes.
The guy is accurate ONLY within the dink and dunk offense that we have to play with him at quarterback. Dink and dunk! Anything downfield and the guy is way off target. HE IS NOT ACCURATE AT ALL. Just about all his touchdown passes were quick, short passes with the receiver having to make plays to get the ball into the endzone.
TATE HAS ALLEGEDLY ALREADY THREATENED TO TRANSFER. And based upon the actions of his parents and brothers, I believe the report. This guy and has family have a history of demanding what they want, and if they dont get it, taking their ball and running home.
Can you say, Craig James??!!
There is a reason why Rich Rod leaked it out that Tate wasn't getting it done in the classroom. A very strange move for a head coach. Even the commentators stated that they thought that was strange.
And there is a reason why Rich Rod calls Tate, "Hollywood". And last time I checked, Hollywood is not in San Diego. It is because of Tate's drama, acting out, bratty behavior and histrionics.... vis a vis Hollywood.
It is obvious to me that Rich Rod doesn't really respect him. And who would if you had to deal with this guy, his family and his sense of entitlement.
We don't need spoiled, bratty, rich kids playing quarterback for UM. We need men! Michigan "Men"!
As soon as the cold weather hit, this little guy was bundled up as if he were playing football in the North Pole or something. This little guy can't cut it in the midwest or the Big 10. Time for "Little Man Tate" to do what he and his family do best.... take their ball and run home.
Recent Comments
You really should change the title of the thread to something like, "7 year old shot dead by Police in Detroit". Sadly, 7 year olds getting shot dead in Detroit (athough very sad and senseless) sometimes barely raise an eyebrow as the killing in the Detroit knows no age. Sadly some people have gotten immune to hearing this type of news coming out of Detroit. But a 7 year getting shot by a Police Officer is quite alarming indeed.... and attention getting news even coming out of a city like Detroit.
My prayers go out to the little angel and her family. Truly a tragedy.