I was just trying to point out that the person you responded to wasn't wrong in stating that Michigan has a top 10 class in both sports. I wasn't implying anything beyond that.
We can sit here and pound our chests and say things like "this is Michigan" all we want but the fact of the matter is for the last 7 year's Michigan is not even a top 25 program. I think a better exercise would be to compare similar blue blood programs that had down periods and hired a coach that turned things around, and look at their first classes.
Nick Saban at Alabama (2007) - 9 out of 25 were 4/5 stars
Jimbo Fisher at FSU (2010) - 9 out of 30 were 4/5 stars
Charlie Strong at Texas (2015) - 14 out of 29 were 4/5 stars
Brian Kelly at ND (2010) - 5 out of 25 were 4/5 stars
I'm sure there are many more examples but these were the first to pop into my head. This is a little more apples to apples than your comparison above.
I posted this in the McKeon thread below but I also wanted to put it here. This was in response to a poster comparing this year's Michigan class with the best teams in college football from last year.
"We can sit here and pound our chests and say things like "this is Michigan" all we want but the fact of the matter is for the last 7 years Michigan is not even a top 25 program. I think a better exercise would be to compare similar blue blood programs that had down periods and hired a coach that turned things around, and look at their first classes.
Nick Saban at Alabama (2007) - 9 out of 25 were 4/5 stars
Jimbo Fisher at FSU (2010) - 9 out of 30 were 4/5 stars
Charlie Strong at Texas (2015) - 14 out of 29 were 4/5 stars
Brian Kelly at ND (2010) - 5 out of 25 were 4/5 stars
I'm sure there are many more examples but these were the first to pop into my head. This is a little more apples to apples than your comparison above."
Alarm bells should be going off about the rest of his recruiting? Michigan currently has the 15th ranked class in the country. And this is coming off the worst seven year stretch in what, 100 years? Did people really expect Harbaugh to come in and sign a class on par with FSU, OSU and Alabama in year one? If so, maybe those alarm bells should be going off for a different reason.
Didn't mean any offense. I wasn't sure if you meant from a height/weight standpoint or maybe because none of them were able to crack the rotation as true freshman.
I'll wait until I see somewhere else comfirm before I get too excited but according to the ESPN game recap Derrick Walton said he is going to play tomorrow.
17-9 Michigan. Michigan gets another defensive touchdown and an all around dominant defensive performance overcome another 3+ turnover game from the offense. Michigan holds Minnesota below 200 total yards of offense.
I'm pretty sure he was responding to you saying Utah has a better team on paper. When one says "a better team on paper", they typically are referring to talent.
I apologize in advance if that is not what you meant but I don't know what else that could possibly mean.
This year, definitely, last year...I don't know. Both conferences had 2 very good teams (MSU and OSU for B1G and Stanford and Oregon for Pac-12) but I'd say slight edge to Big Ten there. Next tier for Big Ten was Wisconsin, Nebraska and Iowa. For Pac-12 it was UCLA, Arizona State and USC. Slight edge to the Pac -12 there. Both conferences had two absolutely awful teams (B1G had Purdue and Illinois, Pac-12 had Colorado and Cal). The two conferences were very even last year, in my opinion.
Lol, yeah that would be a pretty solid team. When I said I would compare then to Rutgers I just meant overall talent level, certainly not style of play because the two are nothing alike. I am definitely worried about the game at Rutgers and I would be much more worried about this game if it were also on the road.
Well, Hoke has been Michigan's coach for 25% of their 10+ win seasons since 2000, and is also tied for the most wins in any single season since 1997. His average yearly record of 9-4 is also right on par with Michigan's average since 2000.
I completely agree with this preview. Utah will probably score on a few deep pass plays but I don't see them being able to consistently move the ball on Michigan. Don't get me wrong, Michigan is by no means a great team but Utah is not near as good as a few posters here would suggest. I would compare them to Rutgers. This game is a toss up if it is in Utah; in Ann Arbor, not so much.
It is hard to disagree with everything you said but I really am tired of hearing Michigan fans say that we have no chance of beating MSU this year. Will it take a near perfect game? Yes. Does recent history suggest Michigan does not have a great chance of beating a good team on the road? Yes. MSU is not nearly as good as last year, particularly on defense and rushing offense. I am not saying Michigan will win but to say there is no chance is, well, dissapointing to hear from so many Michigan fans.
Do all fanbases put as much of an emphasis on press conferences as Michigan fans? At this point I almost want them to stop having pressers as there is more being made of those than the actual games it seems.
I agree with him/her that we have talent, it is just young, unproven talent. As far as NFL talent, I think Devin Funchess, Jake Ryan, Frank Clark, and Raymon Taylor will all get drafted next year.
I think Norfleet is certainly a threat at flanker but I have not been too impressed with either Darboh or Chesson thus far. Now, they are both only sophomores so there is plenty of time to improve, but as of now, neither is a guy opposing teams will gameplan around.
Really? Cuz when I watched the game I thought he was the most impressive OL. He is never going to be the type of player to simply manhandle DT's but in a zone blocking scheme he doesn't need to be one of those. Seems like you might be experiencing some confirmation bias here. Miller didn't play well last year so there is no chance he will ever be good, right?
As a Colts fan...exactly! Not only do we have two Trent Richardsons (Green and Smith) but we also have two Ahmad Bradshaws (Hayes and Norfleet) that we all want to get the ball more.
Don't forget Glasgow at DT. He is only a RS soph. You have Marshall, Mario O., Charlton, Poggi, Wormley/Strobel can slide back out to DE, and I think Winovich can play some DE. None of those are a Clark level player at this juncture but there is certainly talent. As long as we don't have 280 lb NT's, I think the DL will be just fine.
He's definitely much improved but he really struggled in the second half of the Oregon game, which is somewhat understandable. He has a little Devin Gardner in him in that if the pocket starts to collapse he tends to panic. But he probably has the best arm of any QB we will face the rest of the year not named Hackenberg.
I don't really get this complaint. By all accounts the DL was the most impressive unit in this game for UM. But yet you are complaining that they didn't rotate enough? In a high tempo, high defensive snaps game I expect them to rotate, but why rotate when your guys aren't tired?
With the emergence of Glasgow and Henry I think Clark is going to have a very good campaign in conference games. He should rarely see double teams and, if he can get help from the CB's, I still think he is the quickest DE in the conference.
On another note, I mentioned right after the game that I thought Glasgow looked very good and this reinforces that opinion. The future is very bright at the DT position. If the CB play can improve to where it should be, this still has a chance to be a very good defense.
All of the USC players you mentioned were elite level recruits (top 25ish overall nationally). I guess it would be more of a reflection on the lack of elite talent UM has recruited at the skill positions but comparing a kid like Canteen (top 300 player) to those USC WR's is not apples to apples. Also, I'm pretty sure Mario Manningham had a good freshman year at UM but I cannot think of anyone besides him.
Edit: Manningham had 27 receptions for 433 yards and 6 TD's as a true freshman. Not great but not too bad for a true freshman.
Yeah I would put Utah and PSU pretty much at the same level. UM should win both games with them being at home, but neither is a sure thing and both would be considered probable losses if they were on the road.
Not sure if anyone clicked on the link but Hoke's comment was in response to fans going after players (namely Jake Butt) on Twitter and addressing the kids after a loss. I have no issue with what Hoke said here.
Blake Countess, to me at least, was the most disappointing defensive player on Saturday. Hollowell was taken advantage of a bit more but Countess just did not seem to learn at all from his previous mistakes. I still think he is best suited for NB and firmly believe he will be back there within the next 3 or 4 games. My opinion is that Peppers and Taylor are the best fits for the coverage we want to run and think Lewis, too, will be good once he gains some confindence. But I thought Blake would have a big year now that he is back to 100% but he just does not look comfortable in the new look defense. The season is still very young and I certainly will not give up on Blake or this team but Saturday night was an eye opener.
I'd say MSU is the only team in the top 15 when all things are said and done. OSU, UM, Wisconsin, Nebraska, and Iowa all seem to be in about the same range (somehwere between 25-40). MSU, to me at least, seems to be a clear step down from last year but also are clearly the best team in the conference. All in all, the Big Ten is pretty awful this year.
As Michigan fans we must overreact to everything. I am certainly guilty of this. We overreact to a win over a terrible App State team. We overreact to a terrible loss to a good Notre Dame team. Once Michigan was not able to score early last night and Notre Dame came right back down and scored, I knew we were in trouble. Not 31-0, but in trouble nonetheless. There were a few bright spots (interior DL, namely Glasgow and Henry, and Jake Ryan at MLB) but the most disappointing thing to me was seeing the drop off in apparent talent from our starting CBs to the backups. Lewis and Hollowell looked completely overmatched to me. I think Lewis lost all confidence after the two early PI calls but Hollowell was a glaring weak point. Our CBs were supposed to be our deepest and most talented position group but seeing that all it takes is an injury to a starter to open the flood gates was disappointing.
Regardless, I will continue to go to every home game, watch every road game and support this team. Those of you that will choose not to watch or support the team, well all I can say is I find that rather sad. Go Blue!
Hard to disagree with what you are saying. The main reason I think UM will win this one is ND's lack of playmakers at WR. There is no Michael Floyd, Golden Tate, Tyler Eifert or even a TJ Jones level receiver. I think UM will be able to effectively elimate the threat of a downfield passing game and be able to stack the box to stop the run. Turnovers obviously will be key.
Sigh. I thought maybe we could have a discussion as to why X team will win, other than just a score prediction. But if this is too redundant...please delete.
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I was just trying to point out that the person you responded to wasn't wrong in stating that Michigan has a top 10 class in both sports. I wasn't implying anything beyond that.
It's actually two 3 stars, but yes, Michigan currently has a top 10 class in both sports.
http://247sports.com/Season/2016-Basketball/CompositeTeamRankings
Recruiting seems to bother you way too much.
We can sit here and pound our chests and say things like "this is Michigan" all we want but the fact of the matter is for the last 7 year's Michigan is not even a top 25 program. I think a better exercise would be to compare similar blue blood programs that had down periods and hired a coach that turned things around, and look at their first classes.
Nick Saban at Alabama (2007) - 9 out of 25 were 4/5 stars
Jimbo Fisher at FSU (2010) - 9 out of 30 were 4/5 stars
Charlie Strong at Texas (2015) - 14 out of 29 were 4/5 stars
Brian Kelly at ND (2010) - 5 out of 25 were 4/5 stars
I'm sure there are many more examples but these were the first to pop into my head. This is a little more apples to apples than your comparison above.
I posted this in the McKeon thread below but I also wanted to put it here. This was in response to a poster comparing this year's Michigan class with the best teams in college football from last year.
"We can sit here and pound our chests and say things like "this is Michigan" all we want but the fact of the matter is for the last 7 years Michigan is not even a top 25 program. I think a better exercise would be to compare similar blue blood programs that had down periods and hired a coach that turned things around, and look at their first classes.
Nick Saban at Alabama (2007) - 9 out of 25 were 4/5 stars
Jimbo Fisher at FSU (2010) - 9 out of 30 were 4/5 stars
Charlie Strong at Texas (2015) - 14 out of 29 were 4/5 stars
Brian Kelly at ND (2010) - 5 out of 25 were 4/5 stars
I'm sure there are many more examples but these were the first to pop into my head. This is a little more apples to apples than your comparison above."
Alarm bells should be going off about the rest of his recruiting? Michigan currently has the 15th ranked class in the country. And this is coming off the worst seven year stretch in what, 100 years? Did people really expect Harbaugh to come in and sign a class on par with FSU, OSU and Alabama in year one? If so, maybe those alarm bells should be going off for a different reason.
Didn't mean any offense. I wasn't sure if you meant from a height/weight standpoint or maybe because none of them were able to crack the rotation as true freshman.
When you say "terrible on paper" I'm guessing you are referring to recruiting stars?
Good to know that if and when Beilein retires Michigan should be able to find his replacement on MGoBlog. A lot of experts here it seems.
I'll wait until I see somewhere else comfirm before I get too excited but according to the ESPN game recap Derrick Walton said he is going to play tomorrow.
http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=400767075
Evan Turner averaged 20.4 ppg, 9.2 rpg, 6.0 apg, 1.7 spg, and 1 bpg his junior year (last year in college). Maybe a bit better of a comparison.
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/players/72805
Glad that's settled.
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Sam Cooke - A Change is Gonna Come
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbO2_077ixs
17-9 Michigan. Michigan gets another defensive touchdown and an all around dominant defensive performance overcome another 3+ turnover game from the offense. Michigan holds Minnesota below 200 total yards of offense.
One of the best comments I have read on here in a while. I'd give you all of my MGoPoints if I could.
I'm pretty sure he was responding to you saying Utah has a better team on paper. When one says "a better team on paper", they typically are referring to talent.
I apologize in advance if that is not what you meant but I don't know what else that could possibly mean.
This year, definitely, last year...I don't know. Both conferences had 2 very good teams (MSU and OSU for B1G and Stanford and Oregon for Pac-12) but I'd say slight edge to Big Ten there. Next tier for Big Ten was Wisconsin, Nebraska and Iowa. For Pac-12 it was UCLA, Arizona State and USC. Slight edge to the Pac -12 there. Both conferences had two absolutely awful teams (B1G had Purdue and Illinois, Pac-12 had Colorado and Cal). The two conferences were very even last year, in my opinion.
Lol, yeah that would be a pretty solid team. When I said I would compare then to Rutgers I just meant overall talent level, certainly not style of play because the two are nothing alike. I am definitely worried about the game at Rutgers and I would be much more worried about this game if it were also on the road.
Well, Hoke has been Michigan's coach for 25% of their 10+ win seasons since 2000, and is also tied for the most wins in any single season since 1997. His average yearly record of 9-4 is also right on par with Michigan's average since 2000.
I completely agree with this preview. Utah will probably score on a few deep pass plays but I don't see them being able to consistently move the ball on Michigan. Don't get me wrong, Michigan is by no means a great team but Utah is not near as good as a few posters here would suggest. I would compare them to Rutgers. This game is a toss up if it is in Utah; in Ann Arbor, not so much.
UM - 27
Utah - 16
It is hard to disagree with everything you said but I really am tired of hearing Michigan fans say that we have no chance of beating MSU this year. Will it take a near perfect game? Yes. Does recent history suggest Michigan does not have a great chance of beating a good team on the road? Yes. MSU is not nearly as good as last year, particularly on defense and rushing offense. I am not saying Michigan will win but to say there is no chance is, well, dissapointing to hear from so many Michigan fans.
Do all fanbases put as much of an emphasis on press conferences as Michigan fans? At this point I almost want them to stop having pressers as there is more being made of those than the actual games it seems.
I agree with him/her that we have talent, it is just young, unproven talent. As far as NFL talent, I think Devin Funchess, Jake Ryan, Frank Clark, and Raymon Taylor will all get drafted next year.
I think Norfleet is certainly a threat at flanker but I have not been too impressed with either Darboh or Chesson thus far. Now, they are both only sophomores so there is plenty of time to improve, but as of now, neither is a guy opposing teams will gameplan around.
Really? Cuz when I watched the game I thought he was the most impressive OL. He is never going to be the type of player to simply manhandle DT's but in a zone blocking scheme he doesn't need to be one of those. Seems like you might be experiencing some confirmation bias here. Miller didn't play well last year so there is no chance he will ever be good, right?
As a Colts fan...exactly! Not only do we have two Trent Richardsons (Green and Smith) but we also have two Ahmad Bradshaws (Hayes and Norfleet) that we all want to get the ball more.
Don't forget Glasgow at DT. He is only a RS soph. You have Marshall, Mario O., Charlton, Poggi, Wormley/Strobel can slide back out to DE, and I think Winovich can play some DE. None of those are a Clark level player at this juncture but there is certainly talent. As long as we don't have 280 lb NT's, I think the DL will be just fine.
I believe I read somewhere (maybe in a board post here?) that he should be back for the PSU game, and if not then definitely by the MSU game.
He's definitely much improved but he really struggled in the second half of the Oregon game, which is somewhat understandable. He has a little Devin Gardner in him in that if the pocket starts to collapse he tends to panic. But he probably has the best arm of any QB we will face the rest of the year not named Hackenberg.
I don't really get this complaint. By all accounts the DL was the most impressive unit in this game for UM. But yet you are complaining that they didn't rotate enough? In a high tempo, high defensive snaps game I expect them to rotate, but why rotate when your guys aren't tired?
With the emergence of Glasgow and Henry I think Clark is going to have a very good campaign in conference games. He should rarely see double teams and, if he can get help from the CB's, I still think he is the quickest DE in the conference.
On another note, I mentioned right after the game that I thought Glasgow looked very good and this reinforces that opinion. The future is very bright at the DT position. If the CB play can improve to where it should be, this still has a chance to be a very good defense.
Yeah I didn't include Breaston because he redshirted his first year on campus. I was just looking at true freshman.
PurpleStuff beat me to the punch.
All of the USC players you mentioned were elite level recruits (top 25ish overall nationally). I guess it would be more of a reflection on the lack of elite talent UM has recruited at the skill positions but comparing a kid like Canteen (top 300 player) to those USC WR's is not apples to apples. Also, I'm pretty sure Mario Manningham had a good freshman year at UM but I cannot think of anyone besides him.
Edit: Manningham had 27 receptions for 433 yards and 6 TD's as a true freshman. Not great but not too bad for a true freshman.
Yeah I would put Utah and PSU pretty much at the same level. UM should win both games with them being at home, but neither is a sure thing and both would be considered probable losses if they were on the road.
Either that or they don't like talking to the media.
Don't be crazy. We must all panic and overreact.
All 3 of the scholarship fifth year seniors can be considered men. Fair enough?
Not sure if anyone clicked on the link but Hoke's comment was in response to fans going after players (namely Jake Butt) on Twitter and addressing the kids after a loss. I have no issue with what Hoke said here.
Blake Countess, to me at least, was the most disappointing defensive player on Saturday. Hollowell was taken advantage of a bit more but Countess just did not seem to learn at all from his previous mistakes. I still think he is best suited for NB and firmly believe he will be back there within the next 3 or 4 games. My opinion is that Peppers and Taylor are the best fits for the coverage we want to run and think Lewis, too, will be good once he gains some confindence. But I thought Blake would have a big year now that he is back to 100% but he just does not look comfortable in the new look defense. The season is still very young and I certainly will not give up on Blake or this team but Saturday night was an eye opener.
I'd say MSU is the only team in the top 15 when all things are said and done. OSU, UM, Wisconsin, Nebraska, and Iowa all seem to be in about the same range (somehwere between 25-40). MSU, to me at least, seems to be a clear step down from last year but also are clearly the best team in the conference. All in all, the Big Ten is pretty awful this year.
Hard to disagree with what you are saying. The main reason I think UM will win this one is ND's lack of playmakers at WR. There is no Michael Floyd, Golden Tate, Tyler Eifert or even a TJ Jones level receiver. I think UM will be able to effectively elimate the threat of a downfield passing game and be able to stack the box to stop the run. Turnovers obviously will be key.
Sigh. I thought maybe we could have a discussion as to why X team will win, other than just a score prediction. But if this is too redundant...please delete.