Henne had a problem where he played so much in college that I think he hit his ceiling at Michigan so there weren’t going to be too many areas that he could improve at in the NFL. I think that’s why you saw him drop into the 2nd round.
For all of his physical tools, Henne was very slow coupled with a poor pocket presence, struggled with accuracy on intermediate routes (his completion percentage was basically the same in college as it was the NFL: 59.6% and 59.7%) and he also had a bit of the same problem Navarre had with batted balls - in fact I think I saw that when he started for Jacksonville in 2013 he “led” the league in the category.
I’m not sure it’s fair to call him a bust but in retrospect I’m not exactly shocked he didn’t become a longtime starter in the NFL.
What other NFL head coach has been arrested 5x and was on a coaching staff that was hit by allegations of overlooking rape/sexual assault allegations? I’m having a hard time coming up with one but if there’s one I’ve forgotten (or multiple since you said ‘various’) please enlighten me.
Bieniemy has been arrested 5x and was on Colorado’s staff in the early 2000’s during their rape/recruiting scandal. Granted, most of those issues were in his younger days but that’s a lot to answer for, especially in the days of social media backlash. Add in the fact he was a non-play calling OC under an all-time great coach and QB and I don’t think you ever had a head coaching lock like so many have suggested the past few years regardless of what his personality or interview skills are these days.
I am not really a believer of "QB wins" but at the same token I agree Caleb Williams is vastly overrated. I am really hoping, as a Lions fan, the Bears move on from Fields and take him.
I don't have anything to add that Alex didn't write on, but I would like to touch on a few thoughts.
I have several family members that are close to someone that played under Beilein and Howard. The player in question really blossomed under Howard and clicked more with him on a personal level so I don't believe hands on coaching / player relationships have sunk Howard.
Simply, Howard has been undone by:
Fishing in waters of recruits/transfers that were unlikely to make it to Ann Arbor, whether it was academics or going pro
The fools gold of high 4 and 5 star recruits. Most don't do enough their freshman year to really be standouts and then they are out the door whereas an Eli Brooks isn't a standout his freshmen year but he at least sticks around 2-3 more years. Who had more overall value to Michigan - Eli Brooks or Caleb Houstan?
There are more things you could touch on (2nd half coaching, Howard's personality, etc.) but Howard has sunk himself with not figuring out a college basketball roster, and frankly that was my biggest worry when they hired him.
You’re correct that Title IX doesn’t require that everyone get the exact same thing penny for penny, but do you really think that your average football player getting (for example) $200,000 from a university while a not single women’s athlete gets a dime is really an “equal opportunity on the basis of sex”?
Whether Michigan should cut money from administrators and coaches and direct it to players is a matter of opinion but I fundamentally disagree that paying (some) male athletes and not women’s athletes or non-revenue male athletes can be done with the way Title IX is written; it screams discrimination on the basis of sex and lack of opportunity if you don’t play football or men’s basketball.
1) Why don’t you think Title IX reform is needed as it pertains to universities compensating athletes?
2) The whole purpose of Title IX was to put women’s athletics on something close to an equal footing with men’s sports and educational opportunities. Wouldn’t changing the law to prop up men’s basketball and football spit right in the face of what Title IX was intended to do?
They should be separated but Title IX doesn’t allow it. That’s my problem with this issue - people will continue to harp about the NCAA and universities involvement in this ‘problem’ without stopping and asking themselves this question: What’s the odds of finding 218 house members, 50 senators and a president that are going to change Title IX to allow male athletes in a couple of sports to make bank while all other male and female athletes get left out in the cold?
I certainly felt confident about the 2018 game, but lost in the midst of an O’Korn induced crap-storm after the 2017 game was the fact Brown got had by a cold, off the bench, Haskins. The 2017 small sample size from Haskins certainly didn’t prove to be a fluke. Why Harbaugh didn’t can Brown after the 2018 season is one of the more bewildering things from the Harbaugh era.
Since The Horror, I’m not sure if the 2017 MSU or 2018 OSU game was worse. Honorable mention to Wisconsin in 2019. I don’t really count 2015 MSU or 2016 OSU in that category since those games featured a bad moment more so than a bad overall game, if that makes sense. The first three games I listed were just train wrecks.
Who’s the last full time AD anyone liked anyways? No will like Warde’s replacement after a few months and everyone will return to complaining about the same things.
I don't really have a horse in this race, but I don't think the people that are defending him are any more crazy than the people that think Warde was the sole boogie man in the Bakich, Beilein and Harbaugh departures.
....Or why didn't the regents / Santa fire Warde at any point in the last 7 years?
The teeth gnashing over this all week has been comical. If Harbaugh really wanted to keep coaching at Michigan and despised Warde that much why didn't he just give a 'him or me' ultimatum? Good luck finding more than 5% of people above Warde that weren't going to side with Harbaugh in that scenario.
As a non-attending Michigan fan I’ve never understood this. Why? I mean one it’s silly because I know plenty of MSU fans that didn’t go there (and that’s fine!). Two, I went to a college in a town of 7,000 people. There were two older gents that lived in town that made it a point to tie their socializing to every single sporting event at the school. If they were both free on the day of any sporting event, they both went, sat in the same spots and were great fans. So beloved, the school paper did an article on them at one point despite the fact they had never attended the college. I never thought for one second that those two guys should have been chastised for their support but that’s effectively the argument from sparty fans since it happens with Michigan on a larger scale. I’ll never get it.
To me, it's either Washington, LA Chargers or back to Michigan unless a team in the playoffs moves on from its coach.
I think the Raiders stick with Pierce but even if they don't I am not sure this is an appealing job. Going against Herbert and Mahomes at least 4x a year for the duration of your tenure doesn't sound like much fun, especially when the QB spot is a huge question mark.
Panthers job is a joke.
The Titans look like they're headed for a total rebuild and there no guarantees Levis pans out.
I guess the Falcons could be a dark-horse. The division sucks and there is some good talent on this team and if you could get the QB spot figured out this team could be a contender quickly.
I think the Pats will try to trade the hoodie so that would swap out an opening but this doesn't look appealing for the same reason the Raiders job doesn't: poor roster talent, no QB, two good to great QB's in the division.
LA gives Harbaugh the best chance to win within 2 years, Washington probably the best chance within 5. There is no way he takes over a team (Panthers) that is going to be an extremely difficult rebuild or something close to it.
The only thing dumber then rushing 2 is having a spy when the offense needs to get 31 yards. If you aren't convinced you can bring down a QB before 31 yards with 8 people behind the spy you need your head checked.
I have been plenty wrong on things before so I hope it's not the case, but Harbaugh hearing out the NFL is the best thing for him for any type of negotiation. One, he can see if anyone is willing to offer him personnel control. Two, even if they don't, he can leverage anything offered by an NFL team for more money or better contract terms for a buyout or the dreaded show-cause with Michigan if he wants to stay. I think this one is headed for the long haul so I wouldn't get too excited at this point.
From all accounts, a contract has been offered to Harbaugh. However, there are going to be colossal sticking points:
1) How do you write up a contract fair to everyone regarding what were to happen if Harbaugh gets hit with a show-cause?
2) I subscribe to the thought that Harbaugh would jump back to the NFL only under one condition (assuming he isn't hit with a show-cause or some other odd thing happens): An NFL team offers him control of personnel. Given the Harbaugh vibe is "doesn't always play well with others" I think Harbaugh realizes that if it is going to work in the NFL for him semi-long term he needs to have almost total control. The issue is, most teams that are looking for a head coach hire a GM first and let them decide. 99.9% of GM's are not going to voluntarily turn over their power to the coach, so it presents a problem for Harbaugh if that's what he's after. But, for the sake of discussion, let's say this were to happen. How then do you write a contract in December 2023 that's fair for both parties if the Bears decide to clean house in January 2024, give Harbaugh total control and let him guide Fields (or go in another direction) and draft potentially two top 5 picks? There's no coach other than Smart or Saban that wouldn't jump at that.
Add that up, and I am not sure this gets resolved anytime soon. Also, there is the fact Harbaugh can use any smoke of an NFL job for leverage and....you're prolly going to need to check back in 6 weeks on this one.
I don’t think this game was particularly well played by Michigan compared to others that could be picked, but to me the answer is easily Penn State 2021. Why? Michigan had already lost to (redacted). One more conference loss and it’s a repeat of 15, 17, 19, and 20 where Michigan would have entered the OSU game in a situation where regardless of what they did they couldn’t go to Indy whereas OSU would (again) be entering the game with everything to play for.
With 8 minutes left in the 4th, Michigan was up 8. 2 minutes and 5 seconds later they were down by 3 after a touchdown, a 2 point conversion, an immediate turnover and a field goal. It dawned on me, after Penn State kicked the field goal, I was probably watching the final 5:55 of what would turn into the beginning of the end of Harbaugh’s tenure at Michigan.
Of course, All happened and Michigan won. But, I sincerely doubt Michigan beats OSU in 21 and has unprecedented success the next two years if Michigan doesn’t come back to win that game.
Looking back on the PSU game, I am reminded by something Al Fracassa told our group at a QB camp when I was 15, “One game, hell, one play, cannot only change an entire season, but an entire program.” To me, the All TD against PSU was the Stu Douglass 3 against Sparty in 2011.
Recent Comments
Ugh.
Howard Schnellenberger and Johnny Majors both left for different jobs immediately after winning a national championship, so Michigan has company.
Also, John McKay and Nick Saban both left jobs for the NFL only a year after winning it all.
We want muppets!
It is sad it came to this, but it had to be done. Time to start the CC threads.
You are correct. To the left of that is Hillsdale College, where I went. I think it looks pretty snazzy.
Henne had a problem where he played so much in college that I think he hit his ceiling at Michigan so there weren’t going to be too many areas that he could improve at in the NFL. I think that’s why you saw him drop into the 2nd round.
For all of his physical tools, Henne was very slow coupled with a poor pocket presence, struggled with accuracy on intermediate routes (his completion percentage was basically the same in college as it was the NFL: 59.6% and 59.7%) and he also had a bit of the same problem Navarre had with batted balls - in fact I think I saw that when he started for Jacksonville in 2013 he “led” the league in the category.
I’m not sure it’s fair to call him a bust but in retrospect I’m not exactly shocked he didn’t become a longtime starter in the NFL.
What other NFL head coach has been arrested 5x and was on a coaching staff that was hit by allegations of overlooking rape/sexual assault allegations? I’m having a hard time coming up with one but if there’s one I’ve forgotten (or multiple since you said ‘various’) please enlighten me.
Bieniemy has been arrested 5x and was on Colorado’s staff in the early 2000’s during their rape/recruiting scandal. Granted, most of those issues were in his younger days but that’s a lot to answer for, especially in the days of social media backlash. Add in the fact he was a non-play calling OC under an all-time great coach and QB and I don’t think you ever had a head coaching lock like so many have suggested the past few years regardless of what his personality or interview skills are these days.
I am not really a believer of "QB wins" but at the same token I agree Caleb Williams is vastly overrated. I am really hoping, as a Lions fan, the Bears move on from Fields and take him.
I don't have anything to add that Alex didn't write on, but I would like to touch on a few thoughts.
I have several family members that are close to someone that played under Beilein and Howard. The player in question really blossomed under Howard and clicked more with him on a personal level so I don't believe hands on coaching / player relationships have sunk Howard.
Simply, Howard has been undone by:
There are more things you could touch on (2nd half coaching, Howard's personality, etc.) but Howard has sunk himself with not figuring out a college basketball roster, and frankly that was my biggest worry when they hired him.
When has Izzo ever been 2-9 coming off a crap season?
Just like the football team.
You’re correct that Title IX doesn’t require that everyone get the exact same thing penny for penny, but do you really think that your average football player getting (for example) $200,000 from a university while a not single women’s athlete gets a dime is really an “equal opportunity on the basis of sex”?
Whether Michigan should cut money from administrators and coaches and direct it to players is a matter of opinion but I fundamentally disagree that paying (some) male athletes and not women’s athletes or non-revenue male athletes can be done with the way Title IX is written; it screams discrimination on the basis of sex and lack of opportunity if you don’t play football or men’s basketball.
1) Why don’t you think Title IX reform is needed as it pertains to universities compensating athletes?
2) The whole purpose of Title IX was to put women’s athletics on something close to an equal footing with men’s sports and educational opportunities. Wouldn’t changing the law to prop up men’s basketball and football spit right in the face of what Title IX was intended to do?
They should be separated but Title IX doesn’t allow it. That’s my problem with this issue - people will continue to harp about the NCAA and universities involvement in this ‘problem’ without stopping and asking themselves this question: What’s the odds of finding 218 house members, 50 senators and a president that are going to change Title IX to allow male athletes in a couple of sports to make bank while all other male and female athletes get left out in the cold?
I certainly felt confident about the 2018 game, but lost in the midst of an O’Korn induced crap-storm after the 2017 game was the fact Brown got had by a cold, off the bench, Haskins. The 2017 small sample size from Haskins certainly didn’t prove to be a fluke. Why Harbaugh didn’t can Brown after the 2018 season is one of the more bewildering things from the Harbaugh era.
Since The Horror, I’m not sure if the 2017 MSU or 2018 OSU game was worse. Honorable mention to Wisconsin in 2019. I don’t really count 2015 MSU or 2016 OSU in that category since those games featured a bad moment more so than a bad overall game, if that makes sense. The first three games I listed were just train wrecks.
Who’s the last full time AD anyone liked anyways? No will like Warde’s replacement after a few months and everyone will return to complaining about the same things.
Honest question: I have never heard of animosity between Beilein and Warde and I feel like I am on this board 5x a day. When did that happen?
I don't really have a horse in this race, but I don't think the people that are defending him are any more crazy than the people that think Warde was the sole boogie man in the Bakich, Beilein and Harbaugh departures.
....Or why didn't the regents / Santa fire Warde at any point in the last 7 years?
The teeth gnashing over this all week has been comical. If Harbaugh really wanted to keep coaching at Michigan and despised Warde that much why didn't he just give a 'him or me' ultimatum? Good luck finding more than 5% of people above Warde that weren't going to side with Harbaugh in that scenario.
Same as any post-game loss thread on here: it’s the officials or luck to blame every time. People never want to blame someone they ‘like’.
Do you really think that if Harbaugh went into to Santa’s office and said “me or him” that Warde wouldn’t have been on the first bus out of town?
Lions bills sounds like a Super Bowl I can get behind.
ONE WIN FROM THE SUPER BOWL.
I cannot believe I just typed that. I’ll go bite a knee cap now.
Well, Joe Buck just said Jim would be back in the NFL.
Justin Tucker never misses. 3-0 ravens.
Bah I was beaten by 10 seconds 🤦🏻♂️
I’m not trying to be snarky, but how do you know what’s definitively “hiding money” versus required spending to be compliant with Title IX?
…
Another lions victory!! 🦁
Can this week get any better?
Forward down the field!
As a non-attending Michigan fan I’ve never understood this. Why? I mean one it’s silly because I know plenty of MSU fans that didn’t go there (and that’s fine!). Two, I went to a college in a town of 7,000 people. There were two older gents that lived in town that made it a point to tie their socializing to every single sporting event at the school. If they were both free on the day of any sporting event, they both went, sat in the same spots and were great fans. So beloved, the school paper did an article on them at one point despite the fact they had never attended the college. I never thought for one second that those two guys should have been chastised for their support but that’s effectively the argument from sparty fans since it happens with Michigan on a larger scale. I’ll never get it.
To me, it's either Washington, LA Chargers or back to Michigan unless a team in the playoffs moves on from its coach.
I think the Raiders stick with Pierce but even if they don't I am not sure this is an appealing job. Going against Herbert and Mahomes at least 4x a year for the duration of your tenure doesn't sound like much fun, especially when the QB spot is a huge question mark.
Panthers job is a joke.
The Titans look like they're headed for a total rebuild and there no guarantees Levis pans out.
I guess the Falcons could be a dark-horse. The division sucks and there is some good talent on this team and if you could get the QB spot figured out this team could be a contender quickly.
I think the Pats will try to trade the hoodie so that would swap out an opening but this doesn't look appealing for the same reason the Raiders job doesn't: poor roster talent, no QB, two good to great QB's in the division.
LA gives Harbaugh the best chance to win within 2 years, Washington probably the best chance within 5. There is no way he takes over a team (Panthers) that is going to be an extremely difficult rebuild or something close to it.
From 2020 to this. I would have never dreamed it. Congratulations to Jim and every member of the program! Go Blue!!
I love this team and I love all of you!! NATIONAL CHAMPIONS
I WANT EVERY MUPPET
Packers*
Can’t wait for his crying tomorrow.
I want all of the muppets!!!
Offense needs to follow the D’s lead!
Nothing warms my heart more than a 4 yard hook route on 3rd and 8.
Florida State is getting 🤡’d.
I love you Brad Holmes and Dan Campbell!!
Forward down the field!
The only thing dumber then rushing 2 is having a spy when the offense needs to get 31 yards. If you aren't convinced you can bring down a QB before 31 yards with 8 people behind the spy you need your head checked.
Yes, 3 man crew along with Howard Cosell and John Madden.
I’m going all 2021, since I’m confident 2022 and 2023 don’t happen if Michigan doesn’t have the season that they did.
I have been plenty wrong on things before so I hope it's not the case, but Harbaugh hearing out the NFL is the best thing for him for any type of negotiation. One, he can see if anyone is willing to offer him personnel control. Two, even if they don't, he can leverage anything offered by an NFL team for more money or better contract terms for a buyout or the dreaded show-cause with Michigan if he wants to stay. I think this one is headed for the long haul so I wouldn't get too excited at this point.
From all accounts, a contract has been offered to Harbaugh. However, there are going to be colossal sticking points:
1) How do you write up a contract fair to everyone regarding what were to happen if Harbaugh gets hit with a show-cause?
2) I subscribe to the thought that Harbaugh would jump back to the NFL only under one condition (assuming he isn't hit with a show-cause or some other odd thing happens): An NFL team offers him control of personnel. Given the Harbaugh vibe is "doesn't always play well with others" I think Harbaugh realizes that if it is going to work in the NFL for him semi-long term he needs to have almost total control. The issue is, most teams that are looking for a head coach hire a GM first and let them decide. 99.9% of GM's are not going to voluntarily turn over their power to the coach, so it presents a problem for Harbaugh if that's what he's after. But, for the sake of discussion, let's say this were to happen. How then do you write a contract in December 2023 that's fair for both parties if the Bears decide to clean house in January 2024, give Harbaugh total control and let him guide Fields (or go in another direction) and draft potentially two top 5 picks? There's no coach other than Smart or Saban that wouldn't jump at that.
Add that up, and I am not sure this gets resolved anytime soon. Also, there is the fact Harbaugh can use any smoke of an NFL job for leverage and....you're prolly going to need to check back in 6 weeks on this one.
I don’t think this game was particularly well played by Michigan compared to others that could be picked, but to me the answer is easily Penn State 2021. Why? Michigan had already lost to (redacted). One more conference loss and it’s a repeat of 15, 17, 19, and 20 where Michigan would have entered the OSU game in a situation where regardless of what they did they couldn’t go to Indy whereas OSU would (again) be entering the game with everything to play for.
With 8 minutes left in the 4th, Michigan was up 8. 2 minutes and 5 seconds later they were down by 3 after a touchdown, a 2 point conversion, an immediate turnover and a field goal. It dawned on me, after Penn State kicked the field goal, I was probably watching the final 5:55 of what would turn into the beginning of the end of Harbaugh’s tenure at Michigan.
Of course, All happened and Michigan won. But, I sincerely doubt Michigan beats OSU in 21 and has unprecedented success the next two years if Michigan doesn’t come back to win that game.
Looking back on the PSU game, I am reminded by something Al Fracassa told our group at a QB camp when I was 15, “One game, hell, one play, cannot only change an entire season, but an entire program.” To me, the All TD against PSU was the Stu Douglass 3 against Sparty in 2011.
Forward down the field!!