This link is to the results from a national camp this summer. Wile didn't participate, but look at Hagerup's numbers compared to a bunch of other B10 punters (and everybody else). Also, Sypniewski did great, too, expecially considering he hasnt played a down yet. I'm feeling pretty good about STs this fall.
Regarding your question of whether Hagerup is back to full punting. Take a look at the following link. This comes from this summer's Kohls's National College/NFL Free Agent competition, the biggest such event in the country.
Over the course of charting, Hagerup averaged -- averaged -- 61+ yds and 4.7 hang time, blowing away more than 50 other punters. Note where everyone's favorite, MSU's Mike Sadler is on these charts. I'd say Hagerup is ready to go.
Regarding our net punting, I posted the following in a thread about BH's Monday presser. There are a few references to previous things in the thread, but it still makes sense and supports my claim that our net punting is just fine.
_____________________
"Well, I'm lazy, too, so I resent that your response required me to research facts to support my thesis, namely, that our net punting is just fine.
Hagerup's gross punt average is 49.0. His net punting by game has been 37.1 (Bama -- average return 8 yds.), 45 (Air Force -- 0 returns), and 53 (UMass -- negative 7 yards per return).
Wile's two punts were gross 28 yards. Neither one was returned, so his net is also 28 yds.
So, after doing the math (the details of which I'll omit unless questioned further), we find that Hagerup's net punt average on 11 punts is 44.7 yards. Only four punts have been returned for positive average. I haven't checked, but I would guess the 44.7 net that exceeds all but a dozen or two NCAA FBS teams' GROSS punting.
If you include Wile's two punts, neither of which was returned, our net team punt average is 42.2.
So, reporters, please reconsider the premises of your questions. "
Well, I'm lazy, too, so I resent that your response required me to research facts to support my thesis, namely, that our net punting is just fine.
Hagerup's gross punt average is 49.0. His net punting by game has been 37.1 (Bama -- average return 8 yds.), 45 (Air Force -- 0 returns), and 53 (UMass -- negative 7 yards per return).
Wile's two punts were gross 28 yards. Neither one was returned, so his net is also 28 yds.
So, after doing the math (the details of which I'll omit unless questioned further), we find that Hagerup's net punt average on 11 punts is 44.7 yards. Only four punts have been returned for positive average. I haven't checked, but I would guess the 44.7 net that exceeds all but a dozen or two NCAA FBS teams' GROSS punting.
If you include Wile's two punts, neither of which was returned, our net team punt average is 42.2.
So, reporters, please reconsider the premises of your questions.
Well, I'm lazy, too, so I resent that your response required me to research facts to support my thesis, namely, that our net punting is just fine.
Hagerup's gross punt average is 49.0. His net punting by game has been 37.1 (Bama -- average return 8 yds.), 45 (Air Force -- 0 returns), and 53 (UMass -- negative 7 yards per return).
Wile's two punts were gross 28 yards. Neither one was returned, so his net is also 28 yds.
So, after doing the math (the details of which I'll omit unless questioned further), we find that Hagerup's net punt average on 11 punts is 44.7 yards. Only four punts have been returned for positive average. I haven't checked, but I would guess the 44.7 net that exceeds all but a dozen or two NCAA FBS teams' GROSS punting.
If you include Wile's two punts, neither of which was returned, our net team punt average is 42.2.
So, reporters, please reconsider the premises of your questions.
Can someone please explain to me why a punt coverage question was even asked today?
Hagerup's first punt was a 32 yard wobbler, which was fumbled in a crowd of Michigan players and recovered by Gyarmati. His second punt was 60 yards gross, but 74 yards net, and our gunner was right there and almost recovered that one. So, his net puinting was 53 yards per punt.
Why are you asking about alleged problems with punt coverage?
I think reporters are often lazy and maintain assumptions that someone else might have raised or that might have been true at some point, but aren't anymore. For example, a RB that fumbles three in a game will always be thought of as fumble prone, even if he doesn't fumble much otherwise DR throws off his back foot and throws balls too high? Really? Does he really do this often?
Someone gets the idea that Hagerup "outkicks his coverage" and every time there's a presser someone has to ask BH about it. If he punts it 50-60+ yards, so what if there's a 10 yard return? The returner has to do a great, great job for the net punt to be in the less than adequate range, and that just hasn't happened.
Our net punting nuimbers aren't great because we've had to do a few pooch punts that aren't going to be more than 25 or 30 yards net. That throws off full punt averages. I don't know what our full punt net punting is, but I would guess it's over 40, which is excellent.
What is the questioner even looking for? Is he even thinking, or just asking a lazy question?
"I know nothing about which I'm going to speak..."
Most of you should have employed the same header . . . then left it at there.
I won't go into all my bona fides, but trust me that I know a lot about the specialists' portion of football, and I also have some direct contacts on the UM Coaching staff. With that background, here's what I think about Will Hagerup's performance in the first two games.
First, if you've watched him in pregame and halftime punting, you will see that he is an extraordinarily gifted punter. Watch how the ball jumps off his foot faster than other punters and, thus, goes higher and farther. Before the UConn game, he was punting beautiful punts, with probably 5 seconds of hang time, that were travelling well over 55 yards (sometimes 70 or more yards) from the line of scrimmage. You can't coach that -- that is shear ability. You CAN coach proper techniques, and he'd be considered very very solid even if he were a senior. That fact that he is punting like this already is remarkable, and I haven't ever seen a guy this young punt this well, with technique this strong. Assuming he stays healthy and keeps working at improving and becoming more consistent, I will be shocked if he isn't the first punter drafted in his class or if he doesn't have a long and profitable NFL career. He is that good.
Turning to his game performance, in the UConn game, he intentionally punted a rugby-style punt. For those of you complaining about that, do you even understand what that is? It is (1) a design punt, (2) kicked low and mostly end over end, (3) that is intentionally kicked away from coverage, and (4) that properly is not fielded and rolls forward to a dead ball. Based on those criteria, what didn't he accomplish? The air time is not an issue on these punts. It isn't supposed to look like what he was doing in warmups. It was 100% efficient for how it's designed. I am very impressed that a true freshman even knows how to produce that kind of a punt, since it is an entirely different technique from a regular punt.
This brings me to the ND game. As RR said, I'm sure Will is more disappointed than anyone at some (not all, by any means) of his punts. He did have a true near whiff from our half of the field and a couple others that weren't good (even though none were returnable). But, you need to look at things other than his average to figure out how he really did. IIRC that he missed one out of bounds on a short field (the spiral that went into the third row). That was actually well-executed, except for the fact that it was about 10 yards to the right of where he wanted it. Also, I think it followed a very good 46-47 yarder, that took two hops into the EZ (and that should have been covered inside the 5YL). So, he probably got some flack after the first one for getting a TB, and he overcompensated on the next one.
In all honesty, despite what some of you say, there are very few college punters who are proficient at angle punts. That is one of the biggest gripe NFL Scouts have about new punters and why a guy like Matt Turk and Brad Maynard hang around for 15 years even though their legs aren’t’ nearly as big as new guys. I’m a little surprised that they even tried that kind of a punt with a true freshman, but it indicates RR has a lot of confidence in him.
Even though this wasn't a good stats game, he did come through in the 4th Q when it really mattered. He had at least two that |I recall that were downed inside the 15 (or maybe even 10) and one for sure inside the 10. Those were probably only 30 yard punts (which hurts his average) but they were exactly what was called for.
If this was Will's worst day ever -- and it might be in view of the fact it's his first away game (AT ND!) with wet footballs that don't travel as far even if they are struck cleanly -- then I am very happy about our punting the next four years. The kid's a stud and will only get better. |I expect some breakout punts the next two weeks. Those games should have a much higher comfort level for hm.
P.S. Jimmy Leonhard from WI is another great example of an unde-rrecruited guy who could fat out play, especially on punt returns. Drew reminds me of him more than a little.
This is the first time I've watched his film, and he looks great. Some of it is less than superb competition, of course, but that is true with all high school film. There were reports on other sites that shall not be named that he was at the indoor facility returning Hagerup punts a few weeks ago. Most of the report was on the punting, so I don't know how Drew looked. I think he's a diamond in the rough get for us.
I would admit that, while our K and P game was excellent last year, we are eally starting over this year.
The punting in the Spring game was atrocious, but, assuming Will-Verine Hagerup has college-level maturity, he should be a great punter for us for the next four years.
The fact that Gibbons couldn't beat out a walk-on last year, and hasn't separated himself this spring is disturbing. I wasnt at the SG, but from what I could see on the BTN and posted pix, our kickers are not at a B10 level in technique right now. Converted soccer players almost never have the right FG technique without a lot of work. The motion is close, but not close enough that you can just kick it like a soccer ball. It's not an easy transition. Gibbons looks very inflexible, which is why it appears he hits lots of low balls.
My sources indicate that Will-Verine is being encouraged (pressured) by the coaching staff to prepare to compete for kicking dutes in addtion to punting when he arrives. From his youtube stuff, he looks like he could be a big time kicker, too, and unlik the others, his technique looks extremely sound right now.
I'm pretty sure Bryan Wright is finished. I read soewhere else that Hagerup is the only punter set for the roster next year. I assume we'll have some walk-on competition.
Recent Comments
This link is to the results from a national camp this summer. Wile didn't participate, but look at Hagerup's numbers compared to a bunch of other B10 punters (and everybody else). Also, Sypniewski did great, too, expecially considering he hasnt played a down yet. I'm feeling pretty good about STs this fall.
http://kohlskicking.com/sites/default/files/camp-results/Elite%202014%2…
Regarding your question of whether Hagerup is back to full punting. Take a look at the following link. This comes from this summer's Kohls's National College/NFL Free Agent competition, the biggest such event in the country.
Over the course of charting, Hagerup averaged -- averaged -- 61+ yds and 4.7 hang time, blowing away more than 50 other punters. Note where everyone's favorite, MSU's Mike Sadler is on these charts. I'd say Hagerup is ready to go.
http://kohlskicking.com/sites/default/files/camp-results/Updated%20Elite%202014%20Camp.htm
Does anyone read my posts? HAGERUP IS AVERAGING 44.7 NET. This is not a problem, folks.
College coverage rules are entirely different than the pros. Anyone can go downfield in college.
My view is that the spread IS more likely to result in blocks. I don't have any empirical evidence for that, but see the attached article: http://host.madison.com/sports/college/football/article_8e6e8932-02c1-11e1-94dd-001cc4c002e0.html
Regarding our net punting, I posted the following in a thread about BH's Monday presser. There are a few references to previous things in the thread, but it still makes sense and supports my claim that our net punting is just fine.
_____________________
"Well, I'm lazy, too, so I resent that your response required me to research facts to support my thesis, namely, that our net punting is just fine.
Hagerup's gross punt average is 49.0. His net punting by game has been 37.1 (Bama -- average return 8 yds.), 45 (Air Force -- 0 returns), and 53 (UMass -- negative 7 yards per return).
Wile's two punts were gross 28 yards. Neither one was returned, so his net is also 28 yds.
So, after doing the math (the details of which I'll omit unless questioned further), we find that Hagerup's net punt average on 11 punts is 44.7 yards. Only four punts have been returned for positive average. I haven't checked, but I would guess the 44.7 net that exceeds all but a dozen or two NCAA FBS teams' GROSS punting.
If you include Wile's two punts, neither of which was returned, our net team punt average is 42.2.
So, reporters, please reconsider the premises of your questions. "
Well, I'm lazy, too, so I resent that your response required me to research facts to support my thesis, namely, that our net punting is just fine.
Hagerup's gross punt average is 49.0. His net punting by game has been 37.1 (Bama -- average return 8 yds.), 45 (Air Force -- 0 returns), and 53 (UMass -- negative 7 yards per return).
Wile's two punts were gross 28 yards. Neither one was returned, so his net is also 28 yds.
So, after doing the math (the details of which I'll omit unless questioned further), we find that Hagerup's net punt average on 11 punts is 44.7 yards. Only four punts have been returned for positive average. I haven't checked, but I would guess the 44.7 net that exceeds all but a dozen or two NCAA FBS teams' GROSS punting.
If you include Wile's two punts, neither of which was returned, our net team punt average is 42.2.
So, reporters, please reconsider the premises of your questions.
Well, I'm lazy, too, so I resent that your response required me to research facts to support my thesis, namely, that our net punting is just fine.
Hagerup's gross punt average is 49.0. His net punting by game has been 37.1 (Bama -- average return 8 yds.), 45 (Air Force -- 0 returns), and 53 (UMass -- negative 7 yards per return).
Wile's two punts were gross 28 yards. Neither one was returned, so his net is also 28 yds.
So, after doing the math (the details of which I'll omit unless questioned further), we find that Hagerup's net punt average on 11 punts is 44.7 yards. Only four punts have been returned for positive average. I haven't checked, but I would guess the 44.7 net that exceeds all but a dozen or two NCAA FBS teams' GROSS punting.
If you include Wile's two punts, neither of which was returned, our net team punt average is 42.2.
So, reporters, please reconsider the premises of your questions.
Can someone please explain to me why a punt coverage question was even asked today?
Hagerup's first punt was a 32 yard wobbler, which was fumbled in a crowd of Michigan players and recovered by Gyarmati. His second punt was 60 yards gross, but 74 yards net, and our gunner was right there and almost recovered that one. So, his net puinting was 53 yards per punt.
Why are you asking about alleged problems with punt coverage?
I think reporters are often lazy and maintain assumptions that someone else might have raised or that might have been true at some point, but aren't anymore. For example, a RB that fumbles three in a game will always be thought of as fumble prone, even if he doesn't fumble much otherwise DR throws off his back foot and throws balls too high? Really? Does he really do this often?
Someone gets the idea that Hagerup "outkicks his coverage" and every time there's a presser someone has to ask BH about it. If he punts it 50-60+ yards, so what if there's a 10 yard return? The returner has to do a great, great job for the net punt to be in the less than adequate range, and that just hasn't happened.
Our net punting nuimbers aren't great because we've had to do a few pooch punts that aren't going to be more than 25 or 30 yards net. That throws off full punt averages. I don't know what our full punt net punting is, but I would guess it's over 40, which is excellent.
What is the questioner even looking for? Is he even thinking, or just asking a lazy question?
"I know nothing about which I'm going to speak..."
Most of you should have employed the same header . . . then left it at there.
I won't go into all my bona fides, but trust me that I know a lot about the specialists' portion of football, and I also have some direct contacts on the UM Coaching staff. With that background, here's what I think about Will Hagerup's performance in the first two games.
First, if you've watched him in pregame and halftime punting, you will see that he is an extraordinarily gifted punter. Watch how the ball jumps off his foot faster than other punters and, thus, goes higher and farther. Before the UConn game, he was punting beautiful punts, with probably 5 seconds of hang time, that were travelling well over 55 yards (sometimes 70 or more yards) from the line of scrimmage. You can't coach that -- that is shear ability. You CAN coach proper techniques, and he'd be considered very very solid even if he were a senior. That fact that he is punting like this already is remarkable, and I haven't ever seen a guy this young punt this well, with technique this strong. Assuming he stays healthy and keeps working at improving and becoming more consistent, I will be shocked if he isn't the first punter drafted in his class or if he doesn't have a long and profitable NFL career. He is that good.
Turning to his game performance, in the UConn game, he intentionally punted a rugby-style punt. For those of you complaining about that, do you even understand what that is? It is (1) a design punt, (2) kicked low and mostly end over end, (3) that is intentionally kicked away from coverage, and (4) that properly is not fielded and rolls forward to a dead ball. Based on those criteria, what didn't he accomplish? The air time is not an issue on these punts. It isn't supposed to look like what he was doing in warmups. It was 100% efficient for how it's designed. I am very impressed that a true freshman even knows how to produce that kind of a punt, since it is an entirely different technique from a regular punt.
This brings me to the ND game. As RR said, I'm sure Will is more disappointed than anyone at some (not all, by any means) of his punts. He did have a true near whiff from our half of the field and a couple others that weren't good (even though none were returnable). But, you need to look at things other than his average to figure out how he really did. IIRC that he missed one out of bounds on a short field (the spiral that went into the third row). That was actually well-executed, except for the fact that it was about 10 yards to the right of where he wanted it. Also, I think it followed a very good 46-47 yarder, that took two hops into the EZ (and that should have been covered inside the 5YL). So, he probably got some flack after the first one for getting a TB, and he overcompensated on the next one.
In all honesty, despite what some of you say, there are very few college punters who are proficient at angle punts. That is one of the biggest gripe NFL Scouts have about new punters and why a guy like Matt Turk and Brad Maynard hang around for 15 years even though their legs aren’t’ nearly as big as new guys. I’m a little surprised that they even tried that kind of a punt with a true freshman, but it indicates RR has a lot of confidence in him.
Even though this wasn't a good stats game, he did come through in the 4th Q when it really mattered. He had at least two that |I recall that were downed inside the 15 (or maybe even 10) and one for sure inside the 10. Those were probably only 30 yard punts (which hurts his average) but they were exactly what was called for.
If this was Will's worst day ever -- and it might be in view of the fact it's his first away game (AT ND!) with wet footballs that don't travel as far even if they are struck cleanly -- then I am very happy about our punting the next four years. The kid's a stud and will only get better. |I expect some breakout punts the next two weeks. Those games should have a much higher comfort level for hm.
The other thing to note is that his film is all from his SO and JR years! Does anyone have a link to his 2009 season?
No one will call Jibreel Black white.
P.S. Jimmy Leonhard from WI is another great example of an unde-rrecruited guy who could fat out play, especially on punt returns. Drew reminds me of him more than a little.
This is the first time I've watched his film, and he looks great. Some of it is less than superb competition, of course, but that is true with all high school film. There were reports on other sites that shall not be named that he was at the indoor facility returning Hagerup punts a few weeks ago. Most of the report was on the punting, so I don't know how Drew looked. I think he's a diamond in the rough get for us.