I'VE HAD JUST ABOUT ENOUGH OF YOU SONNY
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- 2012 - Changes centers immediately before the season. Borges had nothing to do with this and the fact that we didn't know from Spring to Fall who should play center is concerning. And it wasn't like we promoted the back-up, we swapped guys.
- Omameh - I realize his skills reside with a diferent type of scheme, but he regressed badly through his two years with Funk.
- 2013 - Miller and Kalis are demoted, Braden gets a ton of snaps and then vanishes, Bryant makes a cameo and is bad/hurt again, Burzinski is the first choice in an emergency, Mags is trying to learn/play multiple positions as a RS-Fr., and Glasgow still can't snap consistently. Are the protection or blocking schemes his responsibility? Maybe or maybe not - but as they have been terrible you can at best say that Funk isn't helping.
- Schofield - Maybe this is unfair, but in my eyes he has regressed or at best plateaued under Funk. He went from a possible 3rd round pick to a guy who doesn't know his NFL position and will be a late-round pick-up at best.
- Tight-Ends - Perhaps our biggest failure as an offense is that our TE's can't block and thus can't be trusted in critical situations. I don't know who coaches the TE specifically, but you'd think your OL coach would be responsible for teaching blocking fundamentals and they clearly aren't improving.
- Miller/Bryant - Maybe expectations were low to begin with on these guys, but they have both only had Funk as an OL coach and neither is contributing at all. If they were starting we couldn't hear the "youth" excuse as not a single player in their 1st or 2nd year would be playing on the line. Yet these guys lost their jobs and look like career bench warmers now. Maybe they would have never been good, but clearly Funk hasn't helped them.
- Washington had a strong junior year where he occupied blockers and allowed the LB to make plays. This year his playing time has been reduced in favor for smaller guys that put more pressure on the LB to avoid blocks. Has this achieved the end result you were going for or is Washington's health preventing him from playing more often?
- It is unusual for most teams to rotate defensive backs and there also have not been many obvious instances of Jarrod Wilson making a mistake that would cost him playing time. What have you seen on game film or in practice that makes you want to rotate so often at that position?
- When you face an offense that makes frequent adjustments at the line and they catch you tipping a blitz, does anyone on the field have the authority to change the playcall? How often do you allow your players to adjust the call on the field versus you making all of the calls from the sidelines? If the players suspect they're in the wrong defense do they have the ability to call timeout or is that something only a coach should do?
- We have not seen very many jump-ball throws to Funchess as compared to Gallon, which is surprising given his size and skills. Is this by design or just something based on situation or Devin's comfort level with Jeremy?
- We have seen several instances of play-action from under center on long-yardage situations - is there an advantage of doing that in an obvious passing down or is that just a by-product of the plays that happen to be called?
- There has been a lot of discussion regarding the youth of the interior OL and how that affects execution and overall performance. Yet we are seeing multiple examples of the senior tackles missing assignments or not executing - how do you explain their struggles considering their experience and talent level? Do you feel that you and Coach Funk need to reconsider the teaching methods you're using with the OL given the consistent struggles?
- Given the way the offense regressed at Auburn from years 2-4 and the regression you've experienced this season, what can you tell the players and the fans to reassure them that things are still headed in the right direction for the future?
- Run Play - we rarely option off a first-level defender, so the line must get all of those blocks right and maybe one guy gets out on a second-level defender. If we could correctly option a DL, then maybe you handle the other three and have guys at the second level for a bigger gain. While either method CAN work, the margin for error or ability to get a huge gain is worse in our current scheme - thus putting a big burden on the OL.
- Pass Play - I feel like we run almost all of our routes deep and nothing happens quickly. We never throw long-handoff passes, we rarely use screens (bubble or otherwise), we rarely throw to backs, and I can't remember the last simple slant pass we've run. So all of our drops are deeper and the OL must sustain blocks for longer.
- Tempo - This isn't a 'solution', but our slow pace allows the defense to adjust personnel to ours and thus any schematic advantage is partially neutered by the D being able to adjust.
- RB - We lost heroic but limited Fitz and replace him with some combination of Green (getting 5 carries per game at 3.0 ypc) or someone not currently able to contribute in any way at all.
- WR - We lose Gallon and Delio, which will certainly hurt. There is a large stable of guys ready to contribute, so this is probably fine.
- QB - Assuming Gardner doesn't suffer PTSD this season, he'll be back.
- TE - Butt should be a little better, Williams can't be worse....but Hill will be a R-FR and Bunting seems a lock to RS.
- OL - Everyone cries "youth!" this season but it won't be better next year, will it? Our current line reads in years within the program as 5-1-3-2-5. Next year it will be 3-2-4-3-3. That is actually less experience than this year, especially considering Braden can't crack the lineup and none of the returning guys seem to be at all effective right now. Losing two 5-year players isn't a recipe for improvement.
- WDE - We get the same rotation as this year, which has been decent but not dominant.
- NT - We lose Washington and HOPE that Pipkins is healthy. If he isn't, we're looking at a new player not currently contributing.
- DT - We lose an effective player in Black but Henry seems promising.
- SDE - We get the same rotation as this year, which has been underwhelming.
- LB - They all return and could be great....if the DL can keep them clean.
- CB - I don't even know where to find room for Taylor, Countess, Stribling, Lewis, and Peppers. Nice problem to have!
- FS - Wilson seems solid
- SS - YIKES! Who plays here? Thomas can't crack the 2-deep, Clark is skinny, none of the CBs seem like obvious candidates.
- David Molk (R-Sr) - Had a good season to end his career
- Ricky Barnum (R-Jr) - Was pretty awful, did not develop
- Eliot Mealer (R-Jr) - Was pretty awful, did not develop
- Rocko Khoury (R-Jr) - Lost his job, left the team
- Patrick Omameh (R-Jr) - Was mediocre, but clearly regressed throughout career
- Mark Huyge (R-Sr) - Was mediocre his final season
- Michael Schofield (R-So) - Has been solid, though hard to say he's improved
- Taylor Lewan (R-So) - Has been mostly very good, though is he elite?
- Offense - We lose both tackles, play four of the guys currently struggling this year with one of them moving outside, and bring in someone to play the other tackle position who currently isn't good enough to help this group. It is good that there are a lot of talented young guys to pick from.....but there is little evidence that anyone on the roster will make a significant leap next season.
- Defense - We lose Washington and Black, probably the two most productive guys. Pipkins injury might mean he loses the entire season, or at least isn't as effective if he can play. So we'll have SDE and WDE with the same unproductive rotations that we have this year and Willie Henry to play one of the two interior slots. If Henry starts at DT as Brian suggests, who starts at NT if Pipkins isn't healthy? Expecting Poggi, Hurst, Mone, or some other new guy to be great seems far fetched. Maybe Taco can move to SDE and one of the SDE guys moves to 3T while Henry plays NT?
- They love to blitz up the middle.....our OL has sucked in the middle.
- They kill running plays.....we can't run yet feel the need to try it 30 times per game.
- They get quick pressure frequently.....we love long passing plays off 7 step drops.
- They get their offense thanks to turnovers from their D.....we turn the ball over a lot.
- They play field position.....our punt coverage stinks and punter is mediocre.
- They play "physical"....we have limited depth at most critical offensive positions.
- They hold/grab all the time.....the game is in their stadium and the refs are unlikely to call it tight.
- The "always surprising Calvin Bell reverse" was shown twice in one game, neither went for more than 6 yards.
- Michigan ran some sort of trick play at the end of the 3rd quarter that I can neither comprehend or understand how it was legal.
- I always though Walker's size and hands would be enough to hang around the NFL for a while. I had a picture of that "catch" on my screen saver for years.
- Iowa had a surprising amount of NFL talent on that team with Sanders, Clark, Banks, and Kaeding to name a few.
- More evidence that classic punt coverage sucks.
- Not a ton of skill-player talent for Michigan on that roster with Askew, Butler, Bell, Seymore, and Thompson getting significant playing time.
- Stribling - Is in perfect position, ball gets ripped away, gets a -4 (coverage +2)
- Taylor - Has a pick six that he lets go through him for a big gain, gets a -1 (coverage +1)
- Countess - He blows a coverage in the redzone where he's no where near the WR, gets a -3 (coverage -3)
- Lewis - He is step for step with a guy, doesn't get a hand on the ball, gives up a big completion. Gets a +1 (coverage +1).
|1 day 40 min ago||My thoughts - SAFETY||
I don't want to come across as knocking Schofield, but it is hard for me to defend anyone on this OL for their dismal play - including Lewan. I thought both tackles were good, but far from great. And communication issues are a HUGE part of OL play. We'll miss Schofield for sure, but I think his performance was overstated by most of you guys. On the other hand, I'm terrified of our safety play. Wilson SEEMS good, but yet he couldn't claim a consistent starting job with the coaches. Now he's the guy we're counting on and we're going to pair him with.....with......who? Either Furman, last seen picking up his jock on the field or someone that's NEVER PLAYED before. At least this year we knew that Wilson had some experience and Avery, for all his faults, was a senior with lots of PT. Asking Clark, Thomas, Furman, or Hill to be a major improvement is scary. As much as I fear this idea, I wouldn't be shocked if one of the corners (Countess/Taylor/Stribling) moves to that spot given their experience and Peppers being able to step in at a deeper position.
|1 day 9 hours ago||What do you WANT to happen versus what do you THINK will happen||
I think the best scenario would be an ugly game that OSU wins on a controversial call and then the voters put Auburn ahead of them in the NC game thus screwing both teams in the process. That would be the best case scenario as a fan without involving natural disasters that swallow the stadium whole. As for what WILL happen? I don't think MSU's offense can score enough and as great as their D is I think they'll still give up 25+ points. OSU in an ugly close game.
|4 days 40 min ago||Brian v annoying posters||
Without question I support Brian and the way he runs the site. Without his emotions as a real fan or his detailed analysis this site would never have become the awesome thing that it is today.
However, I was also disappointed in how Brian handled the last week or so. His "Fickle" piece was great, but otherwise he basically seemed to throw up his hands and say "there is no hope for this offense - spread or nothing.".
I know that wasn't what he really meant, but his comments lacked the substance that makes him great - showing us WHY this offense isn't working and how other teams have been able to make it work (Stanford, LSU, Wisconsin, etc). Without the supporting data he came across more like that punk Rosenberg....a big fan who didn't like the way the coaches ran their system and thus just trashed them.
I hope Brian takes some time to relax and rediscover his passion for this so he can give us his great content despite what Borges and some posters have done to his mental health.
|4 days 49 min ago||Wilson||
While I echo your feelings about Avery and Furman getting so much time and contributing to so many big plays, you should point out that Wilson had a cast on his arm and likely wasn't available. There really isn't anyone else left who isn't a freshman.
|4 days 19 hours ago||Thanks for all that you do!||
You have created a site here that has grown perhaps beyond anyone's initial expectations. There are many reasons for this, but two of them come immediately to mind. The first - your emotion. You've maintained your status as a fan, not a media member, and that makes your take on all thing Michigan so much more genuine and powerful. There will be times when your emotions rub people the wrong way, but that's going to happen now that your site has so many followers. Hell, OSU fans were ripping Herbie today because he shook the hand of a wounded warrier wearing Michigan clothing. As your fan base has grown, there are no doubt a few Michigan equivalents to those idiots - don't let them affect who you are or the product you produce!
The second thing that I think makes your site great is the analysis. We don't get puff pieces about what a great guy the third string fullback is or how Michigan is working on their execution this week. You illustrate to us why things work, why they don't, and what could happen in the future. Don't lose sight of that as you deal with stubborn fans or coaches who bring you down. Show us why the offense isn't working, how it could work if run correctly, and how other teams are succesful with it.
We need you Brian! Help see us through this painful time in Michigan football!!! Don't give up on us just because some morons are giving you crap!
Thanks again for all your hard work.
|5 days 2 hours ago||Corrections....||
Minor corrections, but you said Butt had 60 yards when he had over 80.
While the phantom Clark call was huge (I still wonder if the cameras missed something or the refs said the wrong number)....I was STUNNED that they upheld the Gardner fumble.
As for coaching changes....I just don't know. Does 41 points in your 5th loss to your big rival really gloss over the rest of the season?
|5 days 3 hours ago||Same play....||
You can't line up in the same formation that you showed before they took a time out. That was my problem with the call.
|1 week 3 days ago||Man down!||
Our leader has fallen! Try to find us reasons for hope next year Brian!
I don't necessarily agree with the lack of firing Borges/Funk/Jackson. Someone needs yo be accountable and I look at the improvement at places like USC and even Texas and think a change brings hope.
|1 week 4 days ago||Chant?||
Instead of booing, how does the board feel about a "fire Borges" chant?
|1 week 4 days ago||Scarier than you think...||
What worries me is just how much closer to Florida we are than a title contender. Think about it.....
A couple of weeks ago we were talking about the fluke loss to PSU that could have been a win so many times. Now think about how easily we could have lost to Akron, UConn, Northwestern, and Indiana. We have a stunning three "comfortable" wins all season. Our performance is closer to that of a 5-7 team than 7-5.
Oh, and next year we play OSU, MSU, and ND on the road and all three feel like sure losses right now.
|2 weeks 1 hour ago||2014 DL||
I think Henry's size gives them some positional flexibility, as we've seen with Black the last two seasons. If Pipkins is healthy, you have two big guys in the middle. If he's not, you play undersized with Henry at the nose and whoever does well of the new guys like Poggi/Strobel. I doubt Mone will be ready as a true freshman at that position. But given Henry's performance this year, maybe Hurst is going to be a vaible rotation player.
|2 weeks 2 days ago||Funk apologist....||
While I agree that the ability of a casual though educated fan to judge OL coaching is nearly impossible and that Funk may be hung out to dry by Borges or Hoke.....I still can't understand why he escapes more scrutiny from you. Here are the facts that concern me:
You say that you want to see Funk perform with returning players.....but who? Mags will have to move outside to tackle and it is entirely possible that Glasgow moves to guard or tackle as well. So you're left with Bosch as the only guy likely to return in his current position.
If Borges is 95% to stay, I think Jackson & Funk are the most likely fall guys this offseason if the next two games play out like Vegas thinks they will - whether fair or unfair.
|2 weeks 2 days ago||The future.....better? Same?||
Perhaps what worries me most about this analysis is the near future. I'm sure the coaches hoped Funchess and Williams would be better at blocking by now, but they aren't. They are both pretty terrible. It seems like the best case scenario for next year is minimal improvement. Butt is the most likely to show significant improvement as he gains size and experience, but he will always be a receiver first. Compounding matters, Delio graduates and for some unknown reason his logical back-up (Norfleet) has yet to see the field. On top of that, we are redshirting an H-back in Khalid Hill that is an unknown commodity but not really an in-line blocking TE. We also have an incoming freshman in Ian Bunting who is a converted and skinny WR coming off an injury plagued (and unproductive) season. We seem light years away from the day when we can be like Stanford and trot out three TE and destroy people even when they know what's coming. Our only hope seems to be that Borges/Hoke realize this and we see a healthy dose of Norfleet/Jones/Canteen in the slot next year along with Funchess/Chesson/Darboh on the outside.
|2 weeks 2 days ago||Philosophy....||
I like what you've tried to summarize here. It would be interesting to know what the YPC and YPA are with Delio on the field versus Williams/Kerrige/etc. I think the data will be skewed for YPP in general since we pass more with him out there and generally suck at running. But do we actually get more yards per carry with him on the field? Now THAT would be interesting to ask of Borges in a press conference.
|2 weeks 3 days ago||Questions for Mattison....||
As expected and warranted, this thread has focused on Borges. Let's throw some legit questions out there for Mattison:
I remain perplexed by the fact that neither our offense or defense seem to make play-call changes based on what they see in front of them nearly as often as our opponents do.
|2 weeks 3 days ago||Questions for Borges....||
As much as I would love to hear Heiko ask some of the pointed, abusive, or negative questions of Borges - it won't happen, and it shouldn't. Heiko gets to ask one legitimate question each week amid all of the inane "talk about _____ " questions from the MSM and we don't want to lose that opportunity.
So here are some more normal questions that would still be informative:
And I loved the idea of trying to come up with an intelligent way to ask about the parallel between Auburn and Michigan without sounding like a dick and getting the press pass revoked. Here's one attempt:
|2 weeks 6 days ago||OSU line.....||
Is there a sports book somewhere that posts a betting line for Michigan Rushing Yards against OSU? If so, that line will be -50 and I'll take the under.
I can't believe I'm more apathetic in Year #3 of Brady Hoke than I have been since Year #2 of RichRod. Even in RR's final season I kept hoping for that big victory late in the year to see if it was worth caring.....
|3 weeks 1 day ago||two post||
I don't understand why the OP and Ace talked about the two post lineup. It is already dead without McGary. They didn't use it for a single minute Friday and I can't remember more than a token appearance tonight.
His injury, assuming he returns healthy soon, may have been a blessing in disguise since it revealed that having Walton, Levert, Stauskas, and GR3 on the floor together is our best lineup.
|3 weeks 2 days ago||Further problems....||
I'd love a more educated take on this, but I think Borges complicates all of the issues above in an additional way - his playbook puts MORE stress on the OL as compared to alternates. Here's what I mean:
Am I wrong? Seth or Space Coyote or Magnus?
I don't know man....while the interior is a mess the poster who said we have Lewan, Schofield, Gardner, Fitz, Funchess, and Gallon yet can't field a functioning offense sure paints a bleak picture. This isn't the 2008 offense that lacked functioning warm bodies to run it. If nothing else, maybe a change just for the sake of change is needed on the staff.
|3 weeks 3 days ago||Stanford....||
The issue is that the offense we stive to be (aka Stanford) doesn't really care if you know what's coming. Did you watch them against Oregon? They lined up with 8+ guys in the box and said "here it comes" and were still able to dominate Oregon. The issue we have is that we know certain plays won't work, yet we continue to use them not just occassionally, but as the focal point of our offense.
|4 weeks 35 min ago||I agree, Space Coyote||
I am far from educated at all things RPS, but I was confused at the paragraph talking about how we didn't have a PA for when Devin is in the shotgun....and then there's a clip of a token (somewhat crappy) PA from the shotgun. It is obvious that our offense lacks an obvious "plan" or "this is what we do well" . I also hate watching MSU exploit most of our plays and play their safeties 8 yards deep like a one-armed Denard is at QB. So clearly there are problems. But when your OL gets destroyed, that has to be the #1 issue (both for coaches and players). At this point the RPS completely confuses me - I know we stink, but the RPS doesn't align with my understanding of the metric.
|4 weeks 1 day ago||The worst part is.....2014 might not be better?||
Honestly what worries me most is that 2014 might not be better. I predicted/expected 9-3 this year and while that is not a certainty, there's a decent chance we finish with that record (even if it includes blowouts to our two biggest rivals).
What worries me more is that next year might not be better. Don't believe me? Here's why:
The O frightens me except at WR. The D should get better, but isn't going to be elite since the DL is stiil going to lack playmakers. Combine those things with the scary road schedule and what do you have?
|4 weeks 2 days ago||Funk can't take credit for Molk||
Sorry Mgoagogo, you can't give Funk credit for Molk since he was a senior upon their arrival. Certainly he didn't hurt Molk's career trajectory, but you can't really use that as an example of success.
If you do, then you have to look at the rest of the guys he inherited too. A common refrain is that we only had 8 scholarship linemen when Hoke arrived. That is totally the fault of RichRod and continues to plague our OL today - I would not disagree with that. However, let's look at what Funk & Co. (nice band name, right?) have done with those 8 guys.
Here was the roster in 2011 upon Hoke's arrival.
So Funk inherited 8 linemen, only one of whom (Lewan) has actually shown significant improvement in the last three years. Perhaps the rest were just not as talented and combined with another coaching change were never able to improve. But it is hard to give Funk/Borges/Hoke credit for any of those guys aside from maybe Lewan.
On top of that, Hoke brought in Miller and Bryant that year and those two guys have only known this coaching staff. Both have been unable to help the team at a glaring position of weakness now in their third year with the program. So in the first 10 linemen they've had, it is hard to use any of them to defend the coaches. That's concerning.
I'm not saying Funk should be fired, especially since the OP pointed out some obvious signs of success that he should get credit with at BSU and SDSU. But I am saying that we have no evidence at Michigan in his favor and we're left to hope we see massive improvement from the last two recruiting classes in order to fix the OL problems.
My prediction is that Funk and Borges are tied to the next four games. If we finish 3-1, they're both fine. If we finish 2-2 or 1-3 with a humiliating defeat to OSU at home then something will have to change. Maybe it is a simple demotion of Funk to co-OL coach like what happened at BSU. Or maybe they clean house. But something would have to change.......right?
|4 weeks 3 days ago||Scary thoughts.....||
I didn't realize how bad the season is next year for road games. We're looking at 2015 before we compete it seems. I say that also because it is clear that our problem on both sides of the ball is in the trenches. While experience and new faces will certainly bring the promise of hope, young players rarely contribute on either line early in their career.
So tell me how to be optimistic next year in the trenches when this is happening:
As for coaching changes, I think we have 4 games to determine whether changes will be made or not. If we finish 3-1 and thus 9-3 then nothing changes. If we go 1-3 and finish 7-5 again? I think SOMETHING would have to change. I don't think Brandon is a patient person and the fan discomfort is going to grow to a point where someone will need to be the fall guy.
But regardless, we're looking at 2015 (with a nice schedule to lower the degree of difficulty) to be the year the OL/DL mature and we hope Shane Morris or someone else is a capable gun slinger.
|4 weeks 6 days ago||Where can we draw confidence from?||
I honestly believe that Michigan is a better team than MSU top to bottom. But I think thanks to veteran experience, consistent coaching, a plan that fits their personnel, and a burning desire to build their season around this one game that I think MSU has the edge.
I struggle with finding a reason to be confident in Michigan in this game. What is our strength? I suppose it is our talented WR corp and maybe if you squint it is our secondary considering the number of interceptions and near interceptions. You used to say that we are a big-play offense with defense that never gives them up, but after PSU & IU I'm not sure we can say either anymore.
What worries me most is that MSU's strengths are designed to attack our weaknesses:
Our best chance seems to be to create some turnovers with our defense and have Gardner drop back on nearly every play, with plenty of scrambles and big passes mixed in. I worry about a game like 2011 where we could have scored a bunch of times but had critical mistakes at critical times.
|5 weeks 4 hours ago||Engineering||
This engineering thing seems like an easy "fix" for Michigan. Obviously the only reason Hand likes Alabama's engineering program is because it is easy to get into and easier to balance with football. Kudos to Bama for highlighting that fact. Now Michigan calls him up and says "we know you like engineering and it just so happens that Alabama engineers aren't qualified to clean toilets on our engineering campus.....let us introduce you to some of our esteemed professors and they can talk about the proram. We can help you with tutors too and can talk to you about Omameh or Hugye or even Jordan Morgan - all of whom have pulled off the engineering+athlete combination."
|5 weeks 6 hours ago||Observations from that 2001 Iowa video....||
Thank goodness Wolverine Historian got his content back. How else was I going to entertain myself for 10 minutes over lunch today?
|5 weeks 1 day ago||Della Valle||
I'm pretty sure he played last year and is thus not a redshirt freshman but a true sophomore. I'm still thrilled to have Levert and Spike instead of him.
|5 weeks 1 day ago||Behind expectations =/= behind schedule||
I agree with most of the names here but I think there's a difference in expectations and just being on/behind schedule. RJS and Richardson had lower expectations coming into the program and thus it is hard to say when you combine that with the competition at their position whether they're behind schedule or just less likely to ever contribute in a meaningful way.
In my opinion, the two freshmen that have been the most surprisingly below expectations (which says more about our expectations than their future trendline) are Thomas and Braden. Thomas was a major recruit who saw a ton of action in the spring and now can't sniff the field on D and apparently is poor in coverage to the point where several other freshmen are seeing more time than he is. Considering he was expected to start next year, he has to be considered behind expectations.
Braden was also getting a lot of playing time and hype as Brian mentioned and now hasn't even been one of the TEN offensive linemen to get a start this season, which includes two walk-ons, two other redshirt freshmen, and a true freshman. He's also in line to start next year and that is concerning as he hasn't been able to get meaningful playing time.
The other player I had hoped to see more is Deveon Smith. Honestly I am surprised we haven't heard about a "mysterious back injury" ala Devin Gardner considering he hasn't played since very early this season. It makes sense for him to get an injury red-shirt like Gardner did since he's unlikely to play any more this season.
Finally, I think the biggest negative impact of the Akron and UConn games was our inability to give the younger players meaningful snaps. I suspect the coaches would have played Thomas, Smith, Gedeon, and a host of WR/DB players a lot had those games been the blowouts they were intended to be. Even Shane Morris could have used significant playing time in those games.
|5 weeks 6 days ago||DB Scoring confusion?||
I'm confused about your DB scoring a little, which centers around Stribling phasing out I guess. Each of four DBs gave up a big completion and here's how they were scored:
It seems that the -4 is pretty harsh compared to the others, despite result-based charting.