...says Denzel Valentine of Big Ten Tourney favorite MSU, which is 5-7 in its last 12 games. Cumong, man.
|7 hours 17 min ago||It's funny...||
...everyone here, without exception, seems to want to avoid Florida. I think they're easily the weakest of the four 1-seeds and I'd love to land in the south.
I guess we'll find out who's right soon enough.
|1 day 20 hours ago||Horizon League||
The Horizon is who I was thinking of; they were the first to do this as far as I know. They weren't happy when Butler was upset in the first round in 2002 and they wound up with 14-loss UIC getting the autobid. They changed to the current format the next year, started sending their good teams to the NCAA every year (usually Butler, Milwaukee or Cleveland State). Nobody lower than a 3-seed has ever won the tournament under the current format.
And it worked--I think they had a team win an NCAA game in 9 of the next 10 years, and that success made it easier to get at-large teams into the tournament.
|2 days 11 min ago||Not quite.||
Big East seeded the top teams directly into the quarterfinals; MAC seeds them directly into the semifinals.
|2 days 1 hour ago||Shorting sports bets?||
That wouldn't make you a trader or a gambler...that would make you a bookie.
|2 days 1 hour ago||I remember a coworker telling me that on the elevator once.||
He was telling everyone to invest because "the stock's never been cheaper." And then
Point being, any "investment" that you think is going to earn you 10%/month probably carries a fair bit of risk.
|2 days 5 hours ago||Wisco-style pack line defense||
Bennett's dad wrote the book on that.
|2 days 5 hours ago||FWIW||
Massey estimates Michigan's odds at about 30:1. Arizona was favorite at 6:1, Wichita and Florida 8.5:1.
That was based on an earlier Lunardi bracket, though, where M was a 3-seed in a region with Kansas and Syracuse.
MSU was 65:1. His odds tend to be overly long at the long end because he's assuming independent probabilities for each individual game, no correlations.
|2 days 9 hours ago||I think there are very||
I think there are very different motivations for major conferences vs. small conferences in these tournaments. Major conferences have an incentive to want upsets--it might mean an extra team in the tournament. Small conferences like the MAC, where the regular season winner isn't likely to get an at-large and only one team is going to get in regardless, have reason to hope that one team is strong and they also hope their championship game is a good showcase. They don't particularly want early round upsets in their tournaments; they avoid them by seeding teams directly into the late rounds.
|3 days 47 min ago||Not really.||
He goes back to his day job at St. Joe's, where he's Assistant VP for Marketing Communications and teaches a course in Fundamentals of Bracketology.
He's probably pretty good at his job--he's done well with his own brand, that's for sure.
|3 days 52 min ago||I know that's true to some||
I know that's true to some extent, but it's also true that the bracketology community does a pretty good job of predicting who's going to get in and in doing so they seem to primarily use metrics that don't include scores and other performance stuff. That seems to me to hint that the committee is doing the same, that they may realize the RPI-based metrics aren't all that good but they tend to use them anyway until they get down to those last few teams.
|3 days 56 min ago||Sagarin and Massey do two||
Sagarin and Massey do two football ratings, one without margin of victory that they provide to the BCS, a second that includes margin.
In both cases the version that includes margin is better for predictive purposes. By a lot. They've both stated quite clearly that the only reason they bother with the scoreless version is that the BCS asks for it.
|3 days 2 hours ago||NBA picks||
"this year's team would still have Burke and Hardaway Jr, and ...if you brought back McGary from his injury. Now you're talking about probably 5 NBA picks which rivals the 89 team."
That's five or six picks on the current roster without Burke and Hardaway. Bring them back and you possibly have eight.
|3 days 3 hours ago||That's pretty funny, now that I've thoght about it a bit.||
Non-conference SOS was introduced into the conversation to defend lesser-conference teams like Gonzaga against the charge that they hadn't played anybody. They don't have any choice about who they play in conference, after all, so why not give them credit for scheduling good teams when they have the chance?
It's now being used as a defense of an SEC team.
And rightfully so. They don't have any choice but to play a terrible conference schedule.
|3 days 3 hours ago||True, of course. If we want||
True, of course.
If we want to get to that level of detail, Arkansas was down 20 to Alabama with six minutes to go in the first half and never got closer than 18 thereafter. They were never close enough to start fouling late against A&M, either. LSU turned an 11-point game into a 14-point game with late free throws.
In general I think this sort of thing tends to even out over the course of a season and it's not a big effect on the computers to begin with. Hopefully Burgers is right and the committee really does look at those details when they're sitting.
|3 days 4 hours ago||Didn't want to get bogged down by details, but...||
They've each won four games against teams in contention:
Utah beat UCLA by 5, Arizona St. by 23, Colorado by 9 and Cal by 4.
Arkansas beat Kentucky twice, both times in OT, and beat Minnesota by 14 and SMU by 11.
That's consistent across the ranking matrix. Systems that take scores into account prefer Utah; systems like RPI that ignore scores altogether prefer Arkansas. The bracketologists unanimously side with the systems like RPI.
I'm not so much arguing that Utah is better (I think they are, to be honest, but it's not what I'm arguing here) as: why are they incomparably worse? The only answers I can come up with inolve RPI and its clones.
|3 days 4 hours ago||Aren't you assuming...||
...that none of those teams ever beat themselves?
|3 days 5 hours ago||Green Bay will not be winning their conference.||
They lost to Milwaukee this weekend. They're 62 at Sagarin, 61 an kenpom, they're NIT bound.
And he doesn't have Southern Miss because Louisiana Tech is the #1 seed in that tournament and his rule is to use the highest remaining seed for the autobid.
I don't like Arkansas either--I actually think Utah is better, to name one among many.
|3 days 6 hours ago||Jay Bilas has been an||
Jay Bilas has been an eloquent voice of reason on the subject:
Either coaches are getting a competitive advantage with this stuff, or they aren't.
If they are, we should stop it because it's an unfair competitive advantage.
If they aren't, we should stop it because it's pointless and it looks bad.
|3 days 6 hours ago||Obligatory Paymon post...||
Paymon rankings of 67 bracketologists with three or more years under their belts:
35. Joe Lunardi
38. Jerry Palm
58. Bleacher Report
With all their advantages of committee access, Lunardi and Palm are still below average. Lunardi has never beaten Lobofan, in five years.
|3 days 7 hours ago||Massey odds||
Massey's posted probabilities for the tournament here:
As always, the odds are way too long at the long end because he's assuming independent probabilities for each game, ignoring possible correlations caused by injuries and the like. It also tacitly assumes that teams will perform like they did in the regular season, ignoring the differences in motivation and possibly coaching approach between teams that are already in the NCAA and teams that aren't.
Anyway, the odds:
Like I said, the method jumps the shark at the long end. To give Masey credit he doesn't pretend otherwise.
|3 days 21 hours ago||I defintely agree about the additional stress.||
But it never occurred to me that it might be a health issue. It seems to me there's a simpler explanation.
|3 days 21 hours ago||14 vs 15, 6 vs 7||
Since the tournament went to 64/68:
14-seeds have made the round of 32 twice as often as 15-seeds.
6-seeds have made the round of 16 slightly less than twice as often as 7-seeds.
|3 days 21 hours ago||Something else that I'm sure was on their minds||
though I've never heard them admit it: knocking two of the 16-seeds out in a preliminary round reduces by two the number of ridiculous blowouts we have to watch on Thursday and Friday. If you can't beat Florida A&M you probably weren't going to give Villanova or Arizona much of a game.
|3 days 21 hours ago||Half his team was on the bench the whole game.||
Something about the rules only allowing five on the floor at a time, the way I heard it.
|3 days 21 hours ago||Well if that's what all the fuss is over...||
...maybe they should sign an Adidas contract.
|3 days 21 hours ago||What's supposed to happen...||
...the last four at-large teams play play-in games, the weakest four AQs play play-in games.
The justification was that (1) the committee recognizes that those last few at-large selections are a bit of a coin flip--this lets the coin flip get decided on the court instead of the committee room, and (2) it gives the perennial 16-seeds, like whoever wins the SWAC, a chance to win a game in the tournament every once in a while.
|3 days 21 hours ago||Note that I was using Massey||
Note that I was using Massey to get my seeds. (They were also the last of the twos, which you can't tell from my grid.)
The computers love Louisville, which to me means there's at least some argument that they have a deserving resume. They're #8 at Massey (#5 in Power, which is a better predictor); they're #2 at Sagarin (and also #2 in Predictor); they're #2 at kenpom.
They're lower at Massey because that's the system that most heavily downgrades blowouts. As far as he's concerned, once you've won by enough that you've established clear dominance it doesn't matter any more. But Louisville absolutely slaughtered a couple of likely tournament teams--by 33 over UConn yesterday, by 31 over Southern Miss. They're SMU's only home loss (and it was by double digits), they're Cincinnati's only home loss.\
And unlike most of the schools they're lined up against on those seeds, they have no bad losses. @ Kentucky (33 at Massey) is the worst. Schools ahead of them on the matrix with worse losses:
That's everyone but Wichita, Florida and Villanova.
|3 days 22 hours ago||"Half my team was on the||
"Half my team was on the bench half the time."
That'll happen, if you have ten or more players on your team.
|3 days 23 hours ago||"Also one of the play in||
"Also one of the play in games is 11 seed, not both 12."
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but I think there's no rule about that. If possible the last four at-large teams are placed in play-in games--depending on where the conference champions end up seeded those games could be 11s or 12s.
|6 days 21 hours ago||it's not even just homogenization across schools||
it's homogenization across continents and across sports. I can't find a picture that really captures how ugly these were, and for the 80% of you that don't like soccer this won't mean anything (suffice to say that they ordinarily wear red and this shade of neon is not a national color), but Spain came out in these for their friendly yesterday and my eyes said ohmygodbaylor that must be Adidas.
Many of the usual Adidas trademarks are here--two different shades of yellow-green, one more green and one more yellow. (No, three shades, because the socks didn't match either one.) Black shirts--remember Adidas outfitting schools in monochrome charcoal or black last year? (Unlike the NCAA, FIFA doesn't allow numbers the same color as the uniforms.) The only thing missing was the uniforms didn't tear every time somebody grabbed a fistful.
Which means they worked on me, I got the intended brand message, and that's very sad.
|1 week 18 hours ago||Marty Bodnar. Would have||
Would have liked to say Gary Grant but I think every team he ever played on in his life was easy to watch, at least until he got to the Clippers. Those Canton McKinley teams were something else.
|1 week 21 hours ago||Beilein during the Fab Five era||
In 1990-1991 his LeMoyne team made 198 threes on the season to their opponents' 136; in 1991-1992 it was 184-133.
That was in about 30 games each year, so it's only 20-25% fewer than Michigan's hit this year. He integrated the three into his offense pretty early.
|1 week 1 day ago||Old. Don't care. Will watch||
Old. Don't care. Will watch because it's basketball.
|1 week 1 day ago||I think they may have||
I think they may have improved their chances of not starting when it matters.
And I have no problem with that at all--these friendlies are for experimentation, especially the early ones. it's much more important to find out what works and what doesn't, than it is to win.
|1 week 1 day ago||Other friendlies today involving WC qualifiers:||
Lots of others later; those are the finals so far.
|1 week 1 day ago||ESPN2, kickoff at 2 I||
ESPN2, kickoff at 2 I believe.
Italy v. Spain is on ESPN2 following. Full slate of international friendlies today.
|1 week 2 days ago||Never said he was a bad guy.||
But that he was cocky there can be no doubt.
|1 week 2 days ago||Just looked it up||
eFG of 87%, maybe the best 50+ game ever?
|1 week 2 days ago||I'm confused.||
I said it might have been the second-best game ever, and you think I said he's a scrub?
|1 week 2 days ago||And Wilt said he'd slept with||
And Wilt said he'd slept with 20,000 women.
This stuff comes with the territory, I think. If you don't have more than your share of cocky you don't reach those heights.
|1 week 2 days ago||Will Win Shares do?||
LeBron's best was 20; he projects to about 17 this year. Only one player has ever gone over 25 in a season, Abdul-Jabbar in 72.
|1 week 2 days ago||What all the basketball||
What all the basketball Director positions have in common (well, I only know this for certain at another D1 school, but I assume it's general) is that while they each have job descriptions involving administration/support and the person is expected to fill that role, they also serve as part of the coaching staff except in their interactions with players, where coaching is prohibited.
But, again, I think that's probably something that evolved in basketball, where there's plenty of revenue to support a larger staff to do all the film and skull-session work but the rules only allow four actual coaches. The rules allow ample staff for football and other sports don't bring in the revenue to support the extra staff, would be my guess.
|1 week 2 days ago||Second most efficient high-scoring individual game ever?||
I've been going through the list of 60-point games to see how that ranks among the most efficient. Assuming they didn't get an offensive rebound on any of his shots, it looks like LeBron used 41 possessions (33 shots, 6 trips to the foul line*, 2 turnovers).
I can only find one player getting to 60 with fewer--Malone in 1990. 26 shots, 11 or fewer trips to the foul line, 2 turnovers. His eFG was .808, slightly better than LeBron's tonight. As far as I can tell those are the two best eFGs in the over-60 games, and by a country mile. I can't find a full box score for David Thompson, though. That might have been up there somewhere.
*Assuming 2 shots per trip and no overlap with the made field goals. It could have been fewer.
|1 week 2 days ago||Curious about this.||
"Director of basketball operations" is typically a title given to someone that's an assistant-coach-in-waiting. You work with the staff on game planning and in the film room; you aren't allowed to engage in coaching activities with the players. It's usually the top non-coaching position; you're next in line for an assistant job if someone leaves.
Football might be different because there are so many assistant jobs available. Basketball's very limited in terms of allowed staff.
|1 week 2 days ago||If so, he was way ahead of his time.||
That was drawn in 1949.
|1 week 2 days ago||Per Wikipedia, also...||
Alabama A&M, Bryant, Drake, Louisiana Tech, Samford, South Carolina State, Citadel, NC-Asheville
|1 week 2 days ago||And here's Willie the Wolverine...||
|1 week 3 days ago||I've even got a copy of it around here somewhere.||
Fished it out of the dollar bin at a Blockbuster bankruptcy sale.
|1 week 3 days ago||Officially, they don't.||
Officially, they don't. Unofficially, they can take any information into the selection room they see fit. I'm guessing they don't leave their laptops/smartphones at the door; they've got access to every ranking system out there.
|1 week 3 days ago||I'm not sure "sure-fire NBA||
I'm not sure "sure-fire NBA player" is really a fair description of the level of talent at the tail end of the first round. Here's the last player taken in the first round in the last ten drafts, the number of NBA games played and started, and minutes per game in their NBA career:
The jury's still out on the later guys, obviously, but so far only three of the ten have even put in a season's worth of games in the NBA. About half the time they never make an NBA rotation.
You might get a David Lee or a Josh Howard or a Jimmy Butler. You're about as likely to get Petteri Koponen or J.R. Giddens.
|1 week 3 days ago||If anybody's interested in||
If anybody's interested in seeing how the various systems stack up historically, Massey has a comparison page:
Top left is a link to "archived", where he's got this more or less weekly going back to 2003.
|1 week 3 days ago||Calipari is the greatest||
Calipari is the greatest coach Vacated ever had.
On your first point, I suspect our first clear clue will be the players that don't project to be drafted after their first year. Do they come out anyway, go play in Europe or the D-league instead of sticking around for another year? That might be a clue that they hadn't done what was necessary to stay eligible.
|1 week 3 days ago||So far, the number of people||
So far, the number of people that think this is OK is precisely zero. Got any examples?
|1 week 3 days ago||If the purpose is to project||
If the purpose is to project results for the remainder of the season, and especially if the purpose is to project results for the tournament, it makes sense to account for missing players that will return and not for missing players that are done for the year.
|1 week 3 days ago||On your last point, pretty||
On your last point, pretty much every bracket projection uses the current conference leader as the filler for the autobid until they're knoced out of the conference tournament, at which point they're replaced by the highest remaining seed. That doesn't mean they've already plugged wins from the conference tournament into their computers.
|1 week 3 days ago||Maybe it's possible to make||
Maybe it's possible to make that point and stay in the present? It's not the history that's directly relevant here, it's current conditions. Imagine these two parallel cases:
1. All the black head coaches in the FBS refuse to recruit white players.
2. All the white head coaches in the FBS refuse to recruit black players.
They're exactly, equally, offensive at a personal level. And in both cases you have players' opportunities being restricted. But in the first case the restriction is that 40% of the athletes are locked out of 12% of the available scholarships, while in the second case 60% of the athletes are locked out of 88% of the available scholarships and a whole lot of kids are going to be shut out altogether.
We're making progress: 30 years ago those numbers would have been a lot worse and case 1 would hardly have impacted anyone at all because there was only one black coach at an FBS school.
Call out individual attitudes wherever you like, in either direction. i'm with you. But globally, what matters is the attitudes of the people that control access to opportunities. And until very recently those people were just about all the same color.
|1 week 3 days ago||If there's one coach that||
If there's one coach that can't get away with throwing his players under the bus, it's Calipari. The whole spiel is based on his ability to advance the careers of his one-and-dones. If he starts negatively impacting their reputations, they'll stop being sent his way. And he doesn't have anything else, if that network ever fails him.
I can't remember him ever doing this at all before last year. I watched their game yesterday with my father (old former coach) and he said "that guy's really a hothead." Which I thought was wrong, that's never really been my impression of him at all through the years and I kind of wondered if my dad, whose memory isn't so good any more, might have confused him with someone else...but sure enough, a few minutes later he was losing his shit and getting tossed.
I think the wheels are coming off.
|1 week 3 days ago||in the 80s||
Doug Williams was too stupid to be an NFL quarterback. Haven't forgotten that either. That's about the point Switzer seems to be stuck at, somewhere between Franklin/Greene and Williams winning a super bowl. For a while black quarterbacks were good if you needed an athlete to run an option but you had to have a whilte guy if you wanted to run a pro-style attack. And, no, there weren't howls of outrage then either.
And in the present day you've got a whole thread here of people that think Switzer's way out of line. So I'm not really sure what your point is. There probably won't be much media attention because, frankly, who really gives a damn about Barry Switzer nowadays, other than Barry Switzer? He's stuck three or four decades in the past and since he's long since retired and no longer in a position to do any harm, I guess I'm happy to let him stay there.
|1 week 3 days ago||Sometimes I get it.||
I understood why Camby wanted to play for him. I understood why D. Rose wanted to play for him.
There'll be others.
|1 week 3 days ago||That was great.||
But my favorite bit wasn't even intended to be funny:
That's Calipari's strength as a coach, right? (It sure as hell isn't knowledge of X's and O's). He gets great recruits because he won't, he can't, seriously discipline them. A slap on the wrist if somebody gets way out of line, OK, that'll be understood. But he can't start taking playing time away from his stars. His job is to showcase them for the NBA and deliver them on time as first round picks. If he stops doing that, he'll lose his worldwide recruiting appeal, if you know what I mean.
|1 week 3 days ago||I don't have to imagine it.||
I was alive in the 60s and early 70s and I remember what people said, remember what some of my friends had to say about Cornelius Greene for example. Was probably the same for Franklin in Michigan but I wasn't there so I don't know.
Don't remember any cries of outrage though.
I was actually feeling nostalgic about those times tonight, listening to some 60s music, then I saw this quote and it reminded me of stuff I'm damn glad is gone.
|1 week 5 days ago||Couple of interesting||
Couple of interesting articles that might help:
There's confirmation here, too, that they're trying to draw equal sums on both sides of the bet. That's what they say they're doing, and it's how I'd expect a financial firm like Cantor to make a market. Why take on risk when you can pull 11:10 without it?
|1 week 5 days ago||Not sure about the second||
Not sure about the second link--I can't find any description of how he determined "the Vegas line" and the website hasn't been touched in years so I doubt I'm going to find out.
But the first link specifically used the opening line, before crowdsourcing kicked in.
Combining this with your link, I think what we've got is some evidence that a candidate for a Vegas-beating system is to fade moves in the Vegas line. The paid professionals are better than the crowd.
|1 week 5 days ago||Here's another tracker...||
...a bit older, he stopped running it in 2006. The winner for best predictive method each year, using a mean-square-error method?
2006 Winner: The Vegas Line
2005 Winner: The Vegas Line
2004 Winner: The Vegas Line
2003 Winner: The Vegas Line
2002 Winner: The Vegas Line
2001 Winner: The Vegas Line
2000 Winner: The Vegas Line
1999 Winner: The Vegas Line
That's monotonous and I see why he stopped. There were 56 systems tested, not one ever beat Vegas in 8 seasons.
There was some thinking that this might be because computer methods are pretty worthless in the early part of the season, so he did the same for just the second halves. Vegas won seven years out of 8.
|1 week 5 days ago||Yes, mentioned that||
Yes, mentioned that above.
The decline in plays/game is pretty closely correlated to the increase in commercial minutes/game. They had to find ways to keep the clock running to be able to get games finished in their allotted timeslots.
I go to quite a few D3 games and it's amazing how quick games are when there aren't any media stoppages. Games never go over three hours even if both teams are throwing it all over the lot. 2 1/2 hours isn't uncommon.
|1 week 5 days ago||thepredictiontracker.com||
Unfortunately he doesn't include Massey or KenPom, but no system he tracks has a better record, straight up, than the opening Vegas line. That's been typical through the years, both basketball and football. No computer consistently beats the spread; no computer does better than Vegas straight up.
|1 week 5 days ago||In RR's first year...||
Michigan averaged 67.7 plays per game, not much different from last year.
Some of this is quality of offense, not pace. If you go three and out all the time it doesn't matter all that much how fast you run the three plays. It'd be better to look at total snaps, both offense and defense, than simply look at offensive plays, but that would take a lot more work to compile.
Here's what sport-reference.com has for total snaps in Michigan games, as far back as they go. Unfortunately, eariler years there only have individual stats, not team totals.
Michigan's been under 140 snaps/game six times in the last 14 years: 3 out of 3 under Hoke/Borges, 2 out of 3 under RR, 1 out of 8 under Carr.
Oh, for the glory days of "Hurry Up Lloyd".
|1 week 5 days ago||Timing rules have changed since then.||
The clock stopped more then than it does now, especially in the NFL.
I'm guessing that the change in the NFL has more to do with a change in the run/pass mix, and the number of clock-stopping incompletions, than with changes in the pace of play. Don't have any data to support that, just a guess.
|1 week 5 days ago||"light incremented weight the more recent a game is"||
Massey does this, if you want to see what effect it would have.
|1 week 6 days ago||This is the bit that got me.||
The inadvertent calls were not made through the recruiting software application on the coaches' phones and therefore, the coaches were unaware that the calls had occurred
"Therefore"??? The coaches' brains are hardwired to the recruiting software application so they aren't capable of being aware of anything that doesn't go through it?
|1 week 6 days ago||false claim?||
There is no evidence whatsoever that anything she said to the police was untrue. There aren't even any factual inconsistencies in the police report between her account and Gibbons's, just very very different interpretations of what was happening.
|1 week 6 days ago||One of the things that's||
One of the things that's always perplexed me is why that process took so long here. By the second year in San Diego they were going full-bore with the tempo: lots of no-huddle, including 100% of the scripted stuff as far as I can remember, but after three years here they still hadn't gotten that far. Communication issues? Lack of depth made them not want to lengthen the game? Whatever it was, I hope it's been resolved....
|1 week 6 days ago||If I were having sex with||
If I were having sex with someone who was so distraught that in the immediate aftermath she would be crying to her friends and heading to the hospital for a rape kit, I think I'd notice in time to make sure there was no such aftermath. I don't think there's any degree of drunkenness where it would be possible; there's no gap in the intoxication scale between at least that level of empathy for a partner and unconsciouness, or at least impairment to the point that sex would be impossible.
If it did happen, which I'm having trouble imagining but I'll try, I'd be mortified when I found out. Mortfied at my own behavior and callousness--how could I have gotten it THAT wrong? The only thing I'd be doing is trying to reconcile somehow, unless my lawyer told me to shut up in which case I would. My friends would not be calling her cell phone and issuing indirect threats to her; if they did they would cease to be my friends and I'd make sure I was distanced from it.
I'd venture to say that over the last four years in a university the size of Michigan there have been quite a number of sexual encounters that one or both partners regretted afterwards, and that many of those involved at least one intoxicated person, which would make it a technical violation of the student code since an intoxicated person can't give consent. This is the only one of those cases where the University has seen fit to expel. To me that's a sign that they aren't being overly broad in their interpretation of their misconduct code, and that the potentially-mitigating factors--like, say, repentence, or at least a clear understanding of the meaning of consent in this context--that could have turned up in the evidence and the interviews were very much not in Gibbons's favor.
The school does not want its students subjected to non-consensual sex, it is not OK to pick up drunk girls at parties, if you think it is they reserve the right to separate you from the student body and they have now decided to do so precisely once. Anyone seriously worried that they might be the second probably needs to change their behavior.
|1 week 6 days ago||"she remains safely anonymous||
"she remains safely anonymous and can go on with her life"
Are you suggesting there's something wrong with that? (And doing so in the safety of anonymity, I might add.) What exactly has she done, that she should be required to forfeit her anonymity and/or to not go on with her life?
|1 week 6 days ago||They can release enrollment||
They can release enrollment numbers because they don't include any identifiable information about any particular student.
They can't release information about the Gibbons case because there's no way to redact the information to protect his identity. IT CAN"T BE ANYONE ELSE.
Aggregate statistics are a different animal. They could, arguably, release information about their treatment of sexual misconduct cases generally, if they could find a way to do so without revealing any particular student's identity. But they cannot respond to questions regarding a specific case, and that's what they're being asked to do.
|2 weeks 9 min ago||I'm not sure I'm following||
I'm not sure I'm following the "knowingly" part here.
The University's interest is in maintaining an environment in which students aren't subject to nonconsensual sex. They have an expectation that their students will have a firm understanding of the meaning of "consent", they make rather a lot of information available on the subject, if anyone's confused on the matter. They're well within their rights to expel someone who had sex with someone he thought was consenting, if on investigation they determine that he should have understood that she wasn't. Ignorance isn't, and shouldn't be, a defense.
|2 weeks 3 hours ago||Looking at Massey (because he has a usable archive)||
Right now there are 32 teams within ten points of Arizona at the top. There are usually 10-15, last year at season's end there were 11.
This might be the densest pack at the top ever. I can't find another season that's close.
So, yeah, State has a legitimate shot at a final four. So do at least 30 other teams.
|2 weeks 4 hours ago||Terrell Buckley||
Buckley was on the field at Michigan last year. He was Akron's CB coach.
|2 weeks 4 hours ago||Lying about his legal status?||
Being a "person of interest" in an investigation isn't a legal status that has to be revealed. And until the warrant was issued no one would have even known he was that. Do you really expect a coach or principal to tell a visiting coach "well, there's a rumor going around that he might have knocked up his cousin"?
Now if you dig around enough, especially if you're local, you might well run into the rumor from somebody unofficial. Then you have to decide what to do with it. There's a lot of rumors out there and sometimes there's no fire underneath the smoke.
|2 weeks 5 hours ago||"Usually coaches talk to||
"Usually coaches talk to extended family, friends, coaches, school administrators, & teachers..."
Yes, some of those people might well have become aware of the situation by the time the warrant was issued. But which of them would you expect to tell a visiting coach about it, before any charges have been brought and before there's been any public acknowledgement of the investigation by law enforcement?
|2 weeks 7 hours ago||That's really interesting.||
I was thinking the same thing, but in reverse. I was full of fast twitch fibers, really quick reflexes, fast hands and feet. But I didn't have the body mass necessary for any popular American sport. I didn't even make it to 100 pounds until my senior year of high school. I spent my childhood getting shoved around on basketball courts and trying to slap baseballs through the infield. I wonder what would have happened if I'd lived somewhere where badminton or table tennis was a serious sport?
TL;DR- It probably isn't just endurance talent we're missing out on.
|2 weeks 8 hours ago||Some of that is a matter of||
Some of that is a matter of perspective. Americans (and everyone else) tend to notice the sports that are popular in their own country and not notice sports that aren't. How many here are watching internet streams of preliminary round team handball matches? Or early rounds of the Olympic badminton tournament? Rhythmic gymnastics?
Those sports get maybe 2% of the coverage time NBC devotes to beach volleyball, and there's a general sense that they, and others, "aren't real sports." But in other parts of the world they draw the same level of passion football does here. I've been to packed-house handball matches in Europe, it's intense. Dirk Nowitzki was torn between a basketball or a handball career. Sharapova wanted to be a rhythmic gymnast as a child, had to settle for tennis.
|2 weeks 12 hours ago||He's signalling "basket||
He's signalling "basket counts", saying it beat the buzzer. It's his call because he's the referee in line to see both the shot leaving Robinson's hand and the backboard (and the red light signalling time has expired).
|2 weeks 1 day ago||Reon Dawson||
That's four numbers in four years--he was 24 and 1 his last two years at Trotwood.
Paging Dave Brandon...your services are required in the Marketing 101 classroom.
|2 weeks 1 day ago||I guess I'm not quite clear||
I guess I'm not quite clear on what you're saying. Martin wasn't just a feature of the environment. Frieder meets Martin (at Joubert's home, if memory serves) when he was recruiting Joubert, Frieder offers Joubert's coach an assistant job, Martin starts coming to Michigan games, Watson invites him to practice, gets him tickets and access to the locker room. Frieder eventually leaves (one step ahead of Bo's posse, by some accounts) and Martin begins, allegedly, cultivating a relationship with his replacement, offering him gifts.
You would have to be quite unimaginably thick not to be able to figure out what was going on, and I refuse to believe that anyone involved is that stupid. "Looking the other way" seems inadequate as a description of any of this. This isn't an out-of-control booster; this is corruption right in the heart of the program.
|2 weeks 1 day ago||Hmm.||
I mostly agree with what you've had to say on the subject, but I wonder about the uniqueness. It happens in a lot of places--Tim Floyd is a really good parallel, with Ronald Guillory in the Martin role, with free access to the locker room and lounge areas. I was at Illinois during the Mike White/Lou Henson/Jimmy Collins era and it was pretty much impossible not to know what was going on. Most schools are lucky enough not to have law enforcement get involved, and without subpoenas there's room for some smidgeon of doubt if you're a loyal enough fan to avoid the obvious.
The "it could happen anywhere" defense is bull. You don't have to let Ed Martin into your locker room and you can tell him where to stuff his gifts when he offers them (I'm talking about the ones he allegedly offered to the coaches, not the players). You can walk away from players when you find out they're for sale; you can decide you're not going to recruit high schools where the coaches want compensation for access; you can raise an eyebrow at an assistant coach with a great record of recruiting known cesspools; you don't have to give coaching jobs to Perry Watson or Jimmy Collins and you don't have to keep them when you find out what they're up to. But Michigan's far from the only school to have chosen the low road.
|2 weeks 1 day ago||Next step in the arms race?||
|2 weeks 1 day ago||"the only one who never paid||
"the only one who never paid any price whatesoever"
Really? What price did Perry Watson pay, the man directly responsible for Martin's access to the program? He went straight from Michigan assistant to head coach at Detroit. What price did Frieder pay? At least Fisher got fired and missed one year of coaching (not that he didn't deserve it, that's not what I'm saying at all).
It's the reason this crap never stops--the coaches never pay any real price no matter what they pull. Hell, even Dave Bliss found his way back into coaching eventually (if briefly, the leopard couldn't change his spots and he wound up even getting suspended from high school coaching).
|2 weeks 1 day ago||I don't disagree with you||
I don't disagree with you about the responsiblity of all the coaches at the time but the timeline, as it respects Fisher, is a bit of a coincidence. Martin's relationship with Perry Watson predated either's relationship with Michigan and his initial access to the program was through Watson.
|2 weeks 1 day ago||Yep.||
The next time they bring those back they should bring back the original style too. Short pants, long socks.
Except that it would kill recruiting for decades to come, that is.
|2 weeks 1 day ago||Looking the other way.||
Does anyone outside the program have the kind of access now, under Beilein, that Martin had under Fisher and Frieder? Does Beilein have friends that hang out with the players and have free run of the locker room? And who he met whle on a visit to a prospect's home?
I don't actually know the answer to any of that but I strongly suspect you're wrong that it could have happened just as easily under any head coach.
|2 weeks 1 day ago||Manning.||
The Manning comments don't make any sense to me at all. (Not yours, the o.p.'s.) For one thing I agree with you that there's no reason to think he can't do the job, but more importantly, it seems like it might be useful in the development of Roy Manning as a football coach, something Hoke and Michigan surely have an interest in. Isn't this the kind of move businesses routinely make with people they're tracking into upper management positions? Move them around the company a bit, outside their original comfort zone, so they'll have broader knowledge when the time comes for broader responsibilities?
If/when Roy Manning becomes head coach at Michigan in 2025 or whenever, the fact that he's had experience coaching multiple positions on both sides of the ball won't hurt, will it?
|2 weeks 1 day ago||You don't have to go back that far.||
There were posters here writing off Beilein last February. Go back and look at the threads when the B1G tournament ended.
|2 weeks 1 day ago||"Some disagree but the proof||
"Some disagree but the proof is in the season results."
And that's where random mgoblogger has an enormous advantage over the coaching staff. He never has to stand for an exam.
|3 weeks 5 hours ago||"Living in Illinois, it would||
"Living in Illinois, it would be entirely possible to take the best 100 basketball players in the state, divide them among 20 "super" teams, and fill out the rest of their rosters with local kids who largely sit on the bench."
It's called the Chicago Public League. There's a reason the tournament in Illinois has featured scores like these:
There's more but I'll stop.
In every case the loser was a Chicago public school that lost out on the rock-star lottery.
You could argue about neighborhoods and socioeconomic and ethnic factors that might impact basketball quality, but there's no reason at all for Orr to be on this list. They used to be a branch of Marshall, a traditional power that's gone to the state tournament more often than not and won it six times, and they have access to basically the same kids. On the boys side it's the opposite, for the moment, and all the ballers in the neighborhood now go to Orr.
|3 weeks 18 hours ago||The writer...||
has never watched a single college football game or done even a couple of minutes of research on the internets. That thing screams computer-generated boilerplate; I doubt any human had even seen it when it went up.
Yahoo!'s started churning out crap like this; apparently they've got a contract with an outfit called "Automated Insights" to crank out individualized commentary on stock portfolios and fantasy football teams. Doesn't surprise me in the least that Stubhub would go there too.
|3 weeks 20 hours ago||I was going to share this||
I was going to share this anyway--it's why I logged into the site tonight:
He's (well, actually they come from curlingzone.com) got stats from years of high-level matches (back to the beginning of the free-guard-zone era) for the likelihood of winning when you're x up with/without the hammer with y ends remaining. For men and women both--they're slightly different, men are more accurate throwing big weight so it's harder it men's play to get big ends.
I don't know what end it was in your example, but say it was the fifth; then you've got two choices:
1. Hit and stick, and take one point. Then you're down one without the hammer. With five ends to go your odds of winning are 22.1%.
2. Hit and roll out, blanking the end. They you're down two with the hammer. With five ends to go your odds of winning are 24.2%.
As a general rule, blanking is pretty much always slightly better than taking one with the hammer, improving your odds by 1-3% depending on score and end (there are some exceptions, like if you're way behind in the last few ends). I was surprised today when Scotland decided to take one in the 8th instead of blanking. But I suppose with such tiny differences as these the specifics of ice and the particular strengths/weaknesses of the two teams could easily flip the right play.
Mostly I just wanted to share that website. Anyone that's come to like curling and enjoys this blog will probably like the approach there.
|3 weeks 21 hours ago||They don't think it's||
They don't think it's possible to perform at the level they expect unless you're practicing one sport year round. That's not an uncommon thought at the college level; they've just taken it a step lower.
And it's an enormous school, graduating classes of at least 700; I get the impression they don't think there are enough extracurriculars to go around. If you're going to take up a slot on the basketball team, you'd damn well better be playing AAU ball all summer and spending every available minute the rest of the year in a gym. There's no point in complaining to the superintendent; he supports this demand for excellence.
I come from a different world. My old high school has gotten so small (I think we're graduating 120 this year) that at halftime of the football games a few of the players and cheerleaders stay on the field and march in the band, still wearing their uniforms/cheerleader outfits. One guy last year was in football, soccer and band all at the same time, and the band was being led from the podium by a drum major in a cheerleader's sweater. If kids weren't playing multiple sports they wouldn't be able to field teams at all.
I happen to think that's a better experience for the kids and that high school's supposed to be a time for experimentation, not specialization. But what do I know?
|3 weeks 22 hours ago||Is it always wrong...||
...to transfer in high school for athletic reasons?
A friend has an eighth-grade son who plays both basketball and football. He's been told by the coaches at the high school he'll be attending next year that he has to choose one or the other--they won't let him come out for both sports, they want him committed full time to just one.
Both sports are important to him and he doesn't want to give one up. They're seriously considering moving to a neighboring district where students are permitted, even encouraged, to play multiple sports if they can.
He's probably good enough to play both at the high school level, he's probably not good enough at either to ever get offered an athletic scholarship.
I don't know what they should do; at this point they don't know either. But is it obvious to you that he should stay put?
|4 weeks 3 days ago||One shot.||
One shot is what it's all about. I keep telling people that, they don't listen.
That guy's still skiing his penalty laps from Salt Lake.
|4 weeks 6 days ago||That might be a sign of a||
That might be a sign of a very poorly attended Olympics, or it might be a reflection of the level of Russian interest in SlopeStyle.
If they don't pack the house for hockey or figure skating, or if nobody shows up at the biathlon, we'll know. Until then, this isn't news.
|4 weeks 6 days ago||Another irony fail on my||
Another irony fail on my part.
I think Mr. Miggle might be on point here.
|4 weeks 6 days ago||NBC and spoilers||
Does anyone know how to navigate to NBC's online coverage of events without clicking through pages of spoilers?
Two years ago you could get to live coverage, and replays of the live coverage, of events through the calendar page. This year the calendar page links to results only, not coverage or replays. (The page is also broken, but never mind that....)
The "watch video" page has at least some coverage mixed in with previews, and reviews chock full of spoilers (not just the videos themselves, but the headers). You can get to coverage through the page for each sport, but then you've seen the headline result before you find the video. Sometimes the result is in the link to the video itself and it's simply impossible to miss.
I feel like I must be missing something--there has to be another way to get to the videos. Or maybe it's just NBC being NBC.
|5 weeks 3 hours ago||Something smells wrong here.||
I'll bet that Utah hat was an improper benefit.
|5 weeks 1 day ago||Going back a decade||
here's the Rivals top 15 for 2004:
Four first rounders, four drafted outside the first round, seven undrafted.
Maybe that was an unusual year.
|5 weeks 2 days ago||By that logic...||
Two people know if Gibbons assualted anyone, and they disagree.
(I'm not necessarily disagreeing with this, either. I just don't think "know" is a relevant standard here.)
|5 weeks 3 days ago||They might not be able to end it...||
...but if all scholarships were required to have a three-year term, and count against your scholarship limit for all three years, it would discourage the offering of scholarships to people you don't expect to stick around.
|5 weeks 3 days ago||Just so there's no confusion...||
...FERPA also has an exception for "nonforcible sex offenses" but the only offenses included in the category are statutory rape and incest.
Otherwise, the only exceptions are for "crimes of violence", which are defined to include "forcible sex offenses".
|5 weeks 3 days ago||Violation of team rules||
On your last point: earlier this year I was pretty hard on programs--OSU among them--that had "treat women with respect" as one of their Team Rules. Didn't that go without saying? Was it really necessary to make a rule about it?
I take back everything I said on the subject. I get it now.
|5 weeks 3 days ago||My takeaway is that the way||
My takeaway is that the way FERPA is currently worded, we should expect schools to invoke it in pretty much any disciplinary situation unless the particular code violation fell clearly within the definition of a violent crime (or statutory rape or incest) or the student was actually found guilty of such a crime. No school is going to make use of their right to release information in any case where there's any doubt whatsoever--why should they? They'd be opening themselves up to some pretty substantial liability. It's bad enough that the information leaked, but to do it willfully and then have a court later determine that it was a violation?
|5 weeks 3 days ago||Not in Michigan, anyway.||
The Michigan statute requires "force or coercion", then goes on to list cicrumstances where that requirement is waived, including intoxication of the victim without the victim's consent.
You spike their drink and don't tell them, it's a crime. They get drunk on their own, it's not, unless you used force or coercion.
|5 weeks 3 days ago||I'm not sure I understand the contradiction.||
It seems to me it's possible to hold both these opinions:
(1) Intoxicated people are responsible for their actions while intoxicated.
(2) Other people have an obligation not to take advantage of someone that's intoxicated by inferring their consent to something that they have good reason to believe they wouldn't have consented to if they were sober.
How does (2) negate (1)?
|5 weeks 3 days ago||"The Daily story that claims||
"The Daily story that claims that Gibbons told Hoke about his situation on Dec 19th has been since refuted by Ablauf (the Daily itself notes this)."
Well, except in their most recent editorial, where they quote this portion of tthe original story without noting the retraction they already noted elsewhere.
Confusion over the meaning of the FERPA exclusions is understandable. This is inexcusable.
|5 weeks 3 days ago||And I assume we're in||
And I assume we're in agreement that whatever this was, it wasn't "statutory rape or incest".
|5 weeks 3 days ago||"Nonforcible sex offense"||
is defined elsewhere in the statute as "statutory rape or incest."
|5 weeks 3 days ago||What you have read...||
FERPA has an exception for "forcible sex offenses". The University's finding involved consent, not force.
It's an absolutely critical difference--one that in Michigan is at the very heart of the definition of the crime of "criminal sexual assault". The University prohibits behavior that is not a crime in the state of Michigan.
|5 weeks 3 days ago||No.||
FERPA specifically doesn't exempt a Gibbons-type situation. Read the statute yourself instead of relying on the Daily's poor legal opinion.
|5 weeks 3 days ago||Here we go again.||
1. The legal opinion from Frank LoMonte quoted in the Daily is refuted by the FERPA statute itself. The exemption he cites isn't for "sexual assault", it's for "forcible sex offenses." There's no reason to believe the university reached any finding as to force; it is not implied by the university's definition of "assault', which deals only with consent or its absence.
2. It's OSCR policy not to inform any department, including the athletic department of the status or result of a proceeding until the proceeding has been completed. Gibbons's process wasn't concluded by their letter to Gibbons announcing their preliminary finding. No one "bothered" to tell the athletic department at that time because it was OSCR policy not to tell the athletic department at that time.
|5 weeks 3 days ago||At least they got the title for the piece right.||
"From the Daily: A shameful response"
|5 weeks 3 days ago||This isn't a case of someone||
This isn't a case of someone "writing something bad about the program." The Daily is printing the results of an illegal FERPA leak, possibly creating legal liability for the university.
That's their right, of course, but they shouldn't be surprised if they find their access restricted.
|5 weeks 3 days ago||I always suspected that Carr||
I always suspected that Carr and RR discussed Mallett, in particular the discipline problems Carr had had with him.
Am I the only one?
|5 weeks 3 days ago||It's exactly the same||
if someone decides to tell it that way.
We know that Carr called a meeting to discuss the hiring of a new coach, who ran a completely different offensive system than the one Carr had run. And we know that he said he would be willing to sign papers if anyone decided to transfer.
We don't know what else happened in that meeting, but we do know that he didn't sign any papers. That fact has always made it seem unlikely to me that he was actively encouraging transfers (well, except for Mallett which was kind of a unique case). That room would have had a lot of offensive players worried about the transition, wondering if they needed to get out now to save their careers. Maybe he encouraged them not to make any hasty decisions, reminding them that he'd still be around to sign if they made the decision later instead of pulling the trigger before they'd met the new coach and thought it through?
That version fits the reported story just as well as "he invited everyone to transfer." I'm not sure why the other version has become MGoGospel.
|5 weeks 3 days ago||As I recall, Lloyd Carr also||
As I recall, Lloyd Carr also suggested Ryan Mallett should consider leaving the Michigan football program while Carr was still coach.
Mallett was a classic "toss the transfer papers on the desk" situation and it's not so clear anyone could have salvaged it if they'd tried, or that they'd have been glad they did so.
|5 weeks 5 days ago||Unless you are of the opinion||
Unless you are of the opinion that sex with an intoxicated person is always rape, I don't think you need to take back the comment--consent and force are still at issue.
Gibbons's statement is at Smith's website. Whatever justified criticism there might be of Smith's editing of the report (he has lengthy excerpts that may well constitute the entire report but I don't see a link to the raw report without breaks), I don't think there's any doubt left on this particular point.
|5 weeks 5 days ago||Yep, We were doing charge drills in the 70s.||
But never falling-down drills. These were outright flops, as if that's what they were deliberately practicing .Maybe the coach asked for charge drills and, it being pre-game, the players did a half-assed walkthrough.
It looked awful, though, and it's kind of an odd thing to do in front of the referees right before a game.
And that old adage about "you play the way you practice" was borne out, too.
|5 weeks 5 days ago||Warmups.||
Gotta share this but it doesn't deserve its own thread so I'll put it here.
You know that drill where players pair off and practice one-on-one dribbling/on-ball defense? One guy dribble-advances against the other, then they flip sides?
I was at a high school game last night and before the game one of the schools ran that drill with a twist. One guy dribble-advances against the other...who falls down on first contact. The dribbler then helps him to his feet.
They were practicing flopping, during pre-game warmups.
WTF. Has anybody else seen this anywhere?
|5 weeks 5 days ago||Have you read the police report?||
Both parties, in their accounts, acknowledged penetration and it was confirmed by physical evidence. I know a police report is just a police report but when Gibbons's own account includes, in his mind consensual, sex, i don't know why anyone would doubt that sex occurred.
There's dispute as to consent, there's a question as to force or coercion. The particular item you've chosen to cast as doubtful, isn't.
|5 weeks 5 days ago||"guy's.. i totally just got laid"||
Probably true. And that might be the saddest component of this entire sorry incident. It's why this shit never stops.
|5 weeks 5 days ago||I obviously think that's a||
I obviously think that's a good point because I've made it myself several times here. But it's possible to make the point without choosing an example that minimizes the incident in question.
|5 weeks 5 days ago||"Does "unwanted or unwelcome||
"Does "unwanted or unwelcome touching" necessarily involve force?"
No. Unwanted or unwelcome penetration doesn't even necessarily involve force (except in those states where there's case law that penetration in and of itself involves force--Michigan isn't one of them as far as I know). If it did, the Michigan statute wouldn't need to include certain situations in which unwelcome penetration was a crime even if it didn't involve force, because there would be no such situation.
It was pretty clear to me that it's not just the University's definition of "sexual misconduct" that doesn't fit the FERPA exception list but "sexual assault" as well, because the definition hinges entirely on consent and not force.
I think the Daily's expert got it wrong--I had a pretty clear sense, reading the piece, that he hadn't done a careful analysis at all. I'm not even sure he had the University's policy in front of him--he seemed to be making a general argument regarding "violent crimes" without bothering to notice if the case in question involved one. It was pretty unimpressive.
One thing's for damn sure--if there's any doubt at all, there's no reason for the University to make use of their dubious right to release the information. Why risk the potential civil liability if you don't have to?
|5 weeks 5 days ago||I'm confused, Erik.||
I get the directory exception, but not your second point about releasing the violation that led to the expulsion. What I see in the FERPA statute is a list of "crimes of violence and non-forcible sex offenses" that doesn't include sexual misconduct as defined by the University.
Basically, the only non-forcible sex offenses that are exceptions under FERPA are statutory rape and incest (obviously not what we're talking about here) and sexual misconduct as definied by the University isn't necessaily forcible, which is required to meet the FERPA definition of "crime of violence".
What am I missing?
|5 weeks 5 days ago||His knowledge of the law isn't so good either.||
He says that disclosure is allowed "when a student has been found guilty or responsible as a perpetrator of a crime of violence, including sex offenses."
That sounds like it includes all sex offenses. It doesn't. The offenses for which disclosure is allowed are detailed in the statute and they do not include "sexual misconduct" as defined by the University.
|5 weeks 5 days ago||I'm OK with "rape", which in||
I'm OK with "rape", which in Michigan isn't a criminal term. I'm uncomfortable with anything that seems to imply that there was a finding of a criminal act (with a lower standard of proof). The act they determined he probably committed wasn't necessarily a crime.
|5 weeks 5 days ago||To me it's extremely||
To me it's extremely far-fetched to propose that the University's finding involved "groping and kissing" and not the events described in considerable detail in the extant police report.
I agree that even with the lowered standard of proof there was no finding of rape, because the University's definition of misconduct deals only with the absence of consent and the state of Michigan (rather famously, sexual assault laws like this are referred to as the "Michigan model") requires force or coercion.
But let's not pretend to ignorance we don't have.
|5 weeks 5 days ago||No, Erik, I think you were||
No, Erik, I think you were right. The claim that the University can release the cause of the expulsion was based on a misreading of FERPA. It's only true in the case of a violent crime (or statutory rape or incest, which obviously isn't the issue here), and the University's definition of "sexual misconduct" doesn't meet the FERPA definition of a violent crime. (It's basically the same issue discussed many times on various threads--the University looks at lack of consent, but to meet the FERPA definition there would need to be force involved.)
|5 weeks 5 days ago||Read the whole subthread.||
I was responding to comments on what RR should have done back in '09.
I have no problem with how Hoke has handled the situation, or at least what I know about it. I've never been comfortable with RR's lack of visible response at the time, as respects both Gibbons and Lewan.
|5 weeks 6 days ago||Rodriguez has been contacted...||
...and is not available for comment. (I don't remember which article I saw that in, but I know I saw it in the last day or two.)
Maybe the man learned something at Michigan after all.
|5 weeks 6 days ago||I suspect he'll have some||
I suspect he'll have some tough interview questions to answer if he pursues a career in social work. Or, for that matter, if he tries to enroll in another school of social work to finish the degree.
|5 weeks 6 days ago||So Meyer was wrong to suspend||
So Meyer was wrong to suspend Carlos Hyde?
It's not really all that uncommon to suspend a player on the basis of an accusation, even if the accuser eventually chooses not to cooperate with the investigation.
|5 weeks 6 days ago||"Finally, Brian did||
"Finally, Brian did specifically point out that FERPA states that universities are allowed to discuss the dismissal of students for charges of sexual misconduct."
This was dealt with elsewhere in the thread but those posts seem to have disappeared.
Universities are allowed to dicuss the dismissal of students for "forcible sex offenses" or "acts that, if proven, would have constituted statutory rape or incest."
From what we know, Gibbons was not dismissed for a forcible sex offense. Force or coercion are not a component of the University's definition of sexual misconduct; the University would not have made any determination as to whether the offense was forcible.
|5 weeks 6 days ago||It didn't even get a mention||
It didn't even get a mention in the local paper here (the Enquirer). I thought there'd at least be a paragraph in the back of the sports section when the fact of the expulsion leaked, but nothing. Nothing on line, either.
If I didn't read this blog I'm not sure I'd ever have known about it.
|5 weeks 6 days ago||Do you honestly think the||
Do you honestly think the victim would be better off if the University provoked a civil lawsuit by violating Gibbons's FERPA rights?
|5 weeks 6 days ago||Maybe I'm misreading this||
But I don't see anything there that prohibits the University from acknowledging that a non-student is not a student. Non-disclosure can only be requested by currently enrolled students.
What I think people are missing is that in late December classes weren't in session. No one was enrolled at that time. Come January and the resumption of classes, the school could state that an individual was not enrolled for the winter semester, but not before that semester started.
|5 weeks 6 days ago||White lies told to impede an||
White lies told to impede an NCAA investigation are a little different than white lies (a characterization I don't agree with but never mind that) told under instruction of counsel to avoid a FERPA violation, don't you think?
|5 weeks 6 days ago||I don't see a shitstorm of||
I don't see a shitstorm of any kind. Apparently it has a pretty small radius.
I live in Ohio, surrounded by OSU fans who spare no opportunity to give me shit about Michigan when they have the chance. I expected to spend a good chunk of this week on explanations, but instead...
Silence. It isn't news. To the extent anyone's even aware of it, they don't seem to see anything scandalous in the way it's been handled.
Of course, none of them read mgoblog.
|5 weeks 6 days ago||Can't we be pretty sure that||
Can't we be pretty sure that letter was sent to Gibbons only? Why would OSCR violate its own policy by copying anyone else?
|5 weeks 6 days ago||Don't know the kid, don't know his parents...||
...but there's one thing I'm absolutely sure of: Brendan Gibbons spent that latter part of December in Florida dealing with a family matter.
He'd just come home from school and told his parents he'd been expelled for sexual misconduct. If that's isn't a "family matter he needs to deal with," I don't know what is.
|5 weeks 6 days ago||Follow the Wells v. Xavier case||
and you'll understand why they didn't. The facts are a little different in that case of course and Wells probably has a better case than Gibbons would, but it's been critical to X's defense that they didn't make the disclosure you wish Michigan had made.
|5 weeks 6 days ago||Also...||
...the university's definition of "sexual misconduct" as it relates to an assault differs from Michigan's criminal sexual assault statute. They reached no finding as to "rape" or the equivalent because they made no finding as to force or coercion. All the university cares about is consent or the lack thereof.
|5 weeks 6 days ago||You monitor outbound||
You monitor outbound communications. You check your phone records for calls to the Daily, you look for outbound e-mails to the Daily, you check the fax records. You watch, you listen.
Maybe you find out, maybe you don't...but you sure as hell try.
I worked at a firm where each copy of a document handed out at a meeting had an unobtrusive unique mark on it, so if a copy ever found its way to the outside world we'd know whose copy it was. (Maybe that's common, and that's the only company I ever reached a high enough position to know about it.)
The point is there are things you can do.
|5 weeks 6 days ago||Oops, I misunderstood.||
I thought that's who he meant by "the only other party". It hadn't occurred to me he might be referring to the other party to the dispute, because it seems extremely unlikely she would have had access to the particular letters that have been leaked.
It was lifted from Gibbons or it was lifted from the University. i don't see any other possiblities.
|5 weeks 6 days ago||No, they're much more vague||
No, they're much more vague on the latter, because there's legal liability in play.
There are plenty of these cases around--pick one at another school, follow it, see if it plays out any differently.
|5 weeks 6 days ago||There's a problem if a friend||
There's a problem if a friend or teammate is leaking stuff, too...just a different kind of problem. The leak's more damaging to Gibbons than the finding was. If it's coming from a friend...ouch.
|5 weeks 6 days ago||"It could be that Gibbons||
"It could be that Gibbons returned a letter of finding with a no contest and then a letter of expulsion was sent the same day. "
That sounds exactly right to me. Fits everything we've seen and been told.
|5 weeks 6 days ago||The only other possibility is||
The only other possibility is that someone could have taken it from Gibbons (if only for long enough to make a copy). Doesn't seem at all likely but maybe not entirely impossible.
|5 weeks 6 days ago||Re (2):||
The issue with internal communications isn't FERPA, it's that OSCR proceedings are confidential. The department wouldn't be informed until the proceedings were over, unless Gibbons told them prior. Which he apparently did, if only by a few minutes, because the proceedings weren't over until they received his fax waiving his right to appeal.
|6 weeks 51 min ago||Definitions||
(i) "Mentally incapable" means that a person suffers from a mental disease or defect that renders that person temporarily or permanently incapable of appraising the nature of his or her conduct.
(j) "Mentally incapacitated" means that a person is rendered temporarily incapable of appraising or controlling his or her conduct due to the influence of a narcotic, anesthetic, or other substance administered to that person without his or her consent, or due to any other act committed upon that person without his or her consent.
(m) "Physically helpless" means that a person is unconscious, asleep, or for any other reason is physically unable to communicate unwillingness to an act.
They've carefully carved out the situation where a person is mentally incapacitated due to the influence of a substance they've intentionally consumed unless the person is "unconscious, asleep or physically unable to communicate unwillingness to an act."
There may be some case law that impacts this. Maybe somebody's been able to get a broad interpretation of "physically unable to communicate unwillingness." But as it stands it doesn't seem that intoxication necessarily implies rape.
|6 weeks 1 hour ago||It's a legal matter now...||
...which means semantics are everything. They're parsing every word; they have no choice. Anything you can do, when phrasing a question, to make that process easier for them will probably get you a better answer. (It'll probably be appreciated, too.) And the most important thing they're needing to avoid is giving any information on this one particular case.
I wish you luck--I think your diagnosis of the bigger problem is spot on.
|6 weeks 5 hours ago||They would be notified at the||
They would be notified at the time the player was expelled; they would not be kept informed of the status of the proceedings until they were completed.
That's the policy, anyway.
|6 weeks 5 hours ago||No, I think we disagree on||
No, I think we disagree on whether "need" should come into play at all.
When you're talking to your attorney or your psychologist they make no determination of your need for confidentiality. Except for certain explicit legal exceptions, your guarantee of confidentiality is absolute. And any lawyer or therapist with any ethical sense will alert you if you get close to one of those legal exceptions, so you can make an informed choice on whether you want to go there.
Participants in an OSCR proceeding get confidentiality because OSCR guaranteed it to them. It's part of the contract, it's not something OSCR can waive at its own whim because it determines one of the parties doesn't need confidentiality, or that there's an overriding institutional imperative that outweights that need.
|6 weeks 5 hours ago||That is the confidentiality breach.||
OSCR assures the partipants that their confidentiality will be protected until the proceedings have concluded. It doesn't say "we won't tell anyone, except we might tell your coach/professor/department chair."
I'm really, really hoping you aren't in a profession where confidentiality ever comes into play.
|6 weeks 6 hours ago||It's not a question of what I||
It's not a question of what I think--it is explicit OSCR policy not to inform a departrment within the university. It keeps those departments from trying to influence the proceedings; it also protects the confidentiality of the proceedings.
If you have a problem with that, there's no point in arguing with me. Take it up with OSCR.
|6 weeks 6 hours ago||Due Process in Formal Conflict Resolution Pathways|
|6 weeks 6 hours ago||"Preponderance of the||
"Preponderance of the evidence" is a standard with a long legal history. It's no more ambiguous than "beyond a reasonable doubt." And while I'm weary of the same two or three anecdotes being trotted out everytime there's a sexual assault case in the news, there's no actual evidence that a tribunal like OSCR wouldn't have cleared the Duke lacrosse team once they had an opportunity to assess the evidence.
But there's a more important point here than your confusion about the standards of evidence involved. The university doesn't want to be an environment in which female students are subjected to non-consensual sex. Period. If consent is in question, to the point where you have to worry about the preponderance of evidence possibly being against consent, then STOP.. Ask the fucking question, get a clear answer. Either you know it's consensual, or you don't do it.
You got so drunk you couldn't make that decision? Well, maybe there's an important life lesson coming your way. I've got no more sympathy for a man in that position.than I'd have for someone that shot somebody in a drunken haze.
|6 weeks 6 hours ago||It's naive...||
...to expect OSCR to abide by its own guidelines?
I've worked in places where confidentiality was treated with such low regard; I didn't like it much. And I'm hoping Michigan isn't such a place. Absent evidence to the contrary I think I'll choose to remain naive.
|6 weeks 6 hours ago||"That interpretation is also||
"That interpretation is also consistent with the fact that Gibbons played in the Iowa game after he and the Athletic Department had been notified that he was under investigation for sexual misconduct."
There's no evidence that the athletic department was informed, and OSCR policy would prohibit such a notification utnil the hearing and appeal were completed. If the firewall happened to leak and Hoke was somehow informed, it's understandable to me that he wouldn't act on that knowledge, since one of the purposes of the firewall is to prevent such an action.
|6 weeks 7 hours ago||That lack of commnication is deliberate.||
It's been pointed out several times on these threads that there's a firewall between the disciplinary tribunal and the athletic department (also true of academic departments). In part it's in place to protect the student from any disciplinary action before it's been determined whether there's any merit to the complaint; it's also in place to prevent the possiblity, or even the appearance of the possiblity, that the athletic department might try to influence the disciplinary proceeding.
|6 weeks 7 hours ago||Perhaps they might be able to||
Perhaps they might be able to confirm that he was expelled for a violation of the student code of conduct. Xavier went that far (and they're now getting sued). What they absolutely can't do is say which portion of the code was violated.
|6 weeks 7 hours ago||Then, if you have an||
Then, if you have an opportunity to pursue this line of questioning, don't mention Gibbons at all. Don't trigger the inevitable and necessary stonewall, since that's not really what you're after anyway.
Intoxicated young men with a shaky understanding of consent is a problem with students generally; there's no reason to think it isn't potentially an issue in the football program as well. Is he concerned? Are they doing anything to educate their players in this regard? You used to have SAPAC come to talk to your pledges. Does SAPAC come to talk to the football team?
He can't talk about a specific case; don't go there. But if you seem to be showing concern instead of anger/aggression something might come from it. You might even trigger some action on their part, which to me is far more important than getting an answer.
|6 weeks 7 hours ago||Sort of a quibble but it||
Sort of a quibble but it might actually be relevant: it's not just the standard of proof that's different. All the University had to concern itself with was consent or the lack thereof. For a crime to have been committed there also has to be coercion or force. In a situation where the victim has been drinking there's the possiblity that no overt force or coercion was necessary to overcome her lack of consent.
In some other states--I know it's true in Ohio, see the recent Steubenville case for an example--there's case law that makes successful prosecution possible under those circumstances, but I'm not sure about Michigan. The statute itself seems to address the situation by stipulating that coercion can be inferred if the victim was intoxicated without her consent.
|6 weeks 7 hours ago||To make the situation truly parallel...||
...imagine that Sandusky had been a student instead of an employee. Maybe, to make it even more closely parallel, imagine that one of his victims had been a student, maybe someone that was admitted to the university at a young age.
I would have absolutely no problem with the Penn State equivalent of the OSCR taking action to suspend or expel him prior to the conclusion of legal proceedings if said student had brought a complaint, and the evidence supported it.
|6 weeks 8 hours ago||Well, yes, it's the largest||
Well, yes, it's the largest punishment the University can possibly impose, and they do so very rarely.
But if you're arguing that the University shouldn't be allowed to create a tribunal empowered to impose such a penalty for gross violations of the student code, I don't know where you're coming from.
|6 weeks 9 hours ago||"Young men will now have to||
"Young men will now have to prove their innocence beyond a reasonable doubt."
Preponderance of the evidence means preponderance of the evidence. It doesn't mean that you can be disciplined based on the slightest reasonable suspicion that you might possibly have done something.
|6 weeks 9 hours ago||That would be great, but||
That would be great, but University counsel would never permit it. To link the expulsion to any particular accusation, even in a veiled manner like this, would come perilously close to acknowledging which particular portion of the student code of conduct was violated. In the Wells/Xavier case a focus of X's defense has been that they did not ever do this. It's bad enough that the information leaked, but at least that was (presumably) without authorization.
You'll note that the one place the Univeristy did acknowledge the 1999 accusations, the "statement on sexual misconduct policy", they never mention Gibbons.
I don't know if this would work either--they're probably prepared to stonewall any line of questioning at all--but if you want anything like a response to any of these issues, the questions need to be phrased generally, with no reference to any particular case.
|6 weeks 17 hours ago||No, I would say that's not the same.||
Expelling a student for peacefully protesting a school's decision to build parking garages is not the same as expelling a student for having sex with a woman without her consent. (Which, you'll note, is not the definition of criminal sexual assault in Michigan, so despite your claims he was not expelled for a crime.)
|6 weeks 17 hours ago||The higher standard in this case...||
...isn't just for student-athletes, but students generally. The university's definition of "sexual misconduct" is broader than the state's legal definition of criminal sexual assault. Most schools' are--Michigan's isn't particularly unusual.
|6 weeks 17 hours ago||Carlos Hyde?||
That's the closer parallel--the police dropped charges when the victim declined to cooperate, he got a suspension anyway.
|6 weeks 17 hours ago||Or an individual leaked the||
Or an individual leaked the information without the blessing of the University. To me that actually seems the most likely possibility here.
|6 weeks 18 hours ago||Can you provide an example?||
Can you provide an example? I've looked through the FIRE website and I can't find a single case where they've even attempted to challenge the dismissal of a student on the grounds that he had not been convicted of a crime, much less succeeded in having the dismissal overturned. The closest I can find is the Brandeis case, which they lost, but the issue there was whether the school had breached promises made in its student handbook, an issue I haven't heard raised at Michigan. Attempts to claim lack of due process because the procedure didn't allow the accused to face his accuser failed.
There's also a situation at Harvard where the student in question was acquitted (not the case here), but that case is 12 years old now and they seem to have made no progress beyond some media posturing. They never even filed, as far as I can tell.
There's nothing here that makes me think they could help Gibbons win a civil case. To be honest, there's nothing here that even makes me think they would want to try.
|6 weeks 18 hours ago||"If the law doesn't punish||
"If the law doesn't punish the player, should the coach?"
That's pretty obviously not the standard, anywhere. Coaches punish players for being late, for skipping a class, for texting their friends during team meetings. The law didn't punish Carlos Hyde.
|6 weeks 19 hours ago||In this context it's maybe||
In this context it's maybe worth pointing out an important difference between Michigan law and University policy: Michigan law requires coercion or force as an element of criminal sexual assault, but the University's definition of sexual misconduct merely requires lack of consent.
|6 weeks 19 hours ago||Ex post facto||
applies to changes in the elements of a crime (or the creation of a new crime), or increases in the penalty to be assessed. It does not, generally, apply to changes in procedure.
Whether any of this even applies to a university administrative proceeding is a separate issue, but there's certainly no reason to expect the rules regarding ex post facto changes to be more strict in an administrative proceeding than they would be in a court of law.
|6 weeks 19 hours ago||"no penalty associated with releasing the name of the accused"||
How could you know that? Do you know who released the information? Do you know that the University knows? Do you know that the University will undertake no investigation of the matter if they do know, or later find out? Are you certain that the results of such an investigation, and the penalty imposed, would be released to the public?
You're reading an awful lot into the fact that as of now we aren't aware of any penalty being levelled against a leaker.
|6 weeks 21 hours ago||This is why I am opposed to the banning of posters.||
I think it's important that opinions like this be expressed openly, so that no one can deny the existence of people that hold them.
|6 weeks 21 hours ago||I'm surprised you were privy||
I'm surprised you were privy to the hearings at Xavier--I wouldn't have expected that level of expertise on the case here.
My point, which I thought was pretty obvious but apparently I have to actually say it, is that for legal reasons the University will say absolutely nothing further. There will be no comments on the proceeding itself, there will never be any statement making it clear precisely what Gibbons's violation of the code of conduct consisted of. University counsel will not permit it. This is how it has been handled elsewhere; this is how it will be handled at Michigan. If you want to draw conclusions from their silence, feel free, but it means nothing because the silence is inevitable.
|6 weeks 22 hours ago||I concluded it was probably||
I concluded it was probably something embarrassing, which isn't necessarily the same as that he'd done something bad...though this incident did come to mind as a possibility.
It's what "family matter" means--the aunt with a drinking problem, the infidelity rumors about Uncle Joe, the nephew that got kicked out of school. It could be an illness or death, too, if it's something you'd rather not talk about. It's a polite way of telling someone to shut up, you're not answering questions. I don't feel sympathy when I hear it, but I do typically respect the request.
STW P. Brabbs apparently drew the same conclusion--he said on the main board thread that he had suspected it was a drinking problem. I seem to recall some veiled, similar comments from others here when Hoke first made the statement. It's not the kind of thing you talk about on the board because it's speculating about a student-athlete, something that's strongly discouraged here. I just assumed other people saw it the same way and, like me, were keeping their mouths shut.
|6 weeks 22 hours ago||Get used to statements like the following:||
“We have read the complaint and the allegations of wrongdoing are unfounded and cannot be supported. The process used by the Xavier University Conduct Board applies to all of our students and is the standard used in American universities. After members of the Conduct Board reached their decision, the matter was considered and upheld in an appeal. The sanction for the offense was expulsion. The University has never revealed the specific charge against Dez Wells other than to say he was found responsible for a violation of the Student Code of Conduct. The university will vigorously defend the process and the decision.”
|6 weeks 1 day ago||The moral of the story, then...||
...if you're going to do something that might get you kicked out of the university, make sure it's a felony offense.
|6 weeks 1 day ago||When you put it that way, I see your point.||
"In a scenario where Hoke learns that Gibbons was likely guilty of rape a little over a year ago"
I just don't see that as a likely scenario. His contact would have been with people on the other side of the divide. He's told that no charges were pressed and no complaint had been filed with the university, and he talks to the players that were there. What would he have learned that would make him think guilt was likely? I doubt a copy of the unredacted police report found its way to his desk.
|6 weeks 1 day ago||The waiver you cite allows||
The waiver you cite allows certain disclosures by the NCAA. This is not an infractions case and the NCAA is not involved in any way.
|6 weeks 1 day ago||So you're suggesting that the||
So you're suggesting that the NCAA should disclose information about Gibbons's disciplinary hearing, in order to "correct inaccurate statements reported by the media"?
That'd be strange, but it's the only way I can even imagine how this waiver might be relevant.
|6 weeks 1 day ago||Evidence of physical trauma||
Evidence of physical trauma could be a component of proving coercion.
|6 weeks 1 day ago||"So no judge, no jail, but a||
"So no judge, no jail, but a person like this gets to decide whether you need to report yourself as a sexual predator to any prospective empolyer for the rest of your natural life:"
Bull. He has no obligation to make such a report, nor did the person you mention have any authority to impose such an obligation.
|6 weeks 1 day ago||I don't think I'm understanding the Jan 2011 entry.||
Can you think of a case in which a newly hired football coach reopened a year-old disciplinary case in which no new information had come to light, telling a player that the discipline handed out under the prior staff was too light and he was imposing a new penalty?
I'm having trouble imagining a head coach doing this, anywhere.
|6 weeks 1 day ago||That's fair.||
It might well impact a jury's decision as to whether the threat was credible. What I'm trying to say is that it's quite possible to issue a credible threat through a third party.
|6 weeks 1 day ago||I'm not entirely sure that's||
I'm not entirely sure that's a bad thing. I'm certainly not going to lose any sleep over the prospect that he'll have to successfully respond to interview questions on the subject if he ever wants to be a social worker.
|6 weeks 1 day ago||He can be tried once.||
So far, he hasn't been tried at all.
Why is this hard to understand? Do people really think that a decision not to pursue charges means that decision can't be revisited in the future if new information comes in? Or that the absence of a criminal conviction prohibits a civil case? Or that someone can only be expelled from a university for a felony conviction?
And as for "restrictive changes to the law", the relevant changes here are procedural. The alleged acts were a violation of the student code of conduct in 2009 just as much as they are in 2013. The standard of proof has changed, not the definition of the "banned act".
|6 weeks 1 day ago||What was misleading about it?||
I drew the correct conclusion (well, to the extent that it was possible for them to disclose anything whatsoever) immediately and I wasn't the only one. I wouldn't have done, if he'd used any of the alternatives that have been proposed on these various threads.
"No comment" is the only proposal that I would have found less misleading, and that would have opened a hornets nest.
|6 weeks 1 day ago||I don't know if there would||
I don't know if there would be any potential ramifications of suspending him but you can always sit a player for any reason whatsoever. Playing time is entirely at the discretion of the coaching staff and they don't need to give reasons to anyone for their decisions.
|6 weeks 1 day ago||That's not really all that surprising.||
Both teams played their last regular season game on November 21, 2009.