|8 hours 25 min ago||Wow...would have assumed this||
Wow...would have assumed this was busy season for you. Guess the elves have you covered!
|1 week 19 hours ago||They can absolve that play||
They can absolve that play forever in my mind by getting us in to the playoffs.
|1 week 19 hours ago||Strength of schedule||
Strength of schedule
|1 week 3 days ago||Michigan doesn't need eye||
Michigan doesn't need eye test against Penn State...there is a definitive head-to-head result.
|3 weeks 2 days ago||The spread matters because||
The spread matters because it's the closest approximation we have to "expectations". It's not about beating the spread for sake of beating it, it's a measure of how he's doing relative to how he's "supposed" to do.
|4 weeks 6 days ago||Well, it was supposed be a||
Well, it was supposed be a secret, but YOU BLEW IT!
|5 weeks 3 days ago||Someone should let Tosh Lupoi||
Someone should let Tosh Lupoi know. "Every week is like the Super Bowl in the SEC."
|5 weeks 6 days ago||I would like to direct your||
I would like to direct your attention to the Beveled Guilt box on the home page:
|6 weeks 5 hours ago||And if anyone contemplated||
And if anyone contemplated that scenario, who'd have guessed it being Penn State and not Michigan State ahead of them, in addition to Michigan, of course...
|6 weeks 2 days ago||I'm not sure that's true. The||
I'm not sure that's true. The above says that the top two will be placed at the most advantageous sites, not the top one. I think the committee would try to balance it for everyone, but let's hope we're dissecting this in great detail in about 5 weeks...
|7 weeks 16 hours ago||Fair point...wonder how that||
Fair point...wonder how that would have impacted both sides of the ball.
|7 weeks 16 hours ago||Why does that make him wrong||
Why does that make him wrong or behind? Maybe he had a good source? Wouldn't you rather someone have their own opinion if they're the outlier rather than following the crowd?
|7 weeks 16 hours ago||Another factor he could have||
Another factor he could have mentioned is that, while both Michigan and Washington were dominant against their common opponent (Rutgers), Michigan was MUCH more dominant.
|7 weeks 1 day ago||Well done. Mobile +1||
Well done. Mobile +1
|7 weeks 3 days ago||Yeah, surprised Indiana is||
Yeah, surprised Indiana is that low in the rankings and similarly surprised Maryland is that high (particularly relative to Penn State).
|8 weeks 2 days ago||That's actually a relevant||
That's actually a relevant joke...
To the crowd saying "of course that's not a uniform", I give you Exhibit A:
The lesson, don't ever underestimate the apparel industry's ability to make anything into a uniform.
|9 weeks 2 days ago||At least some of this stuff||
At least some of this stuff was on MDen on Friday immediately following the event.
|9 weeks 5 days ago||Tom Izzo is concerned these||
Tom Izzo is concerned these kids are being overworked.
|9 weeks 5 days ago||No, not hand-in-hand.||
No, not hand-in-hand. Reacharounds refer to something else in hand...
|10 weeks 5 days ago||Uh oh...why do the nameplate||
Uh oh...why do the nameplate and number look crowded up on Walton's shoulders in that picture?
|12 weeks 6 days ago||I disagree with the notion of||
I disagree with the notion of "consistently". He had a very real dry spell just prior to a perfect storm in his last class. But, it's a reasonable point. He had enough success early on to have engendered elite kids that grew up fans or at least respecting his program, and he has capitalized.
|12 weeks 6 days ago||There is "no reason" other||
There is "no reason" other than nobody does Harbaugh other than Harbaugh. He is singularly unique among all college football and basketball coaches. Could Beilein get more aggressive? Sure. But Harbaugh is on another planet.
|12 weeks 6 days ago||Michigan is not (at least||
Michigan is not (at least institutionally) and that's the issue. Glad the light bulb went on for you.
|12 weeks 6 days ago||RR made a final four and||
RR made a final four and elite eight equivalent? Won a conference championship outright and tied for another? News to me...
|12 weeks 6 days ago||Sorry to break this news to||
Sorry to break this news to you, Haze, but we were cheating then. We won't cheat now. It matters.
|13 weeks 1 day ago||I agree though he has the||
I agree though he has the best four year record in program history. So it may be an Arizona problem, and also, he's in a place that's a better fit for him.
|13 weeks 1 day ago||How in the world does||
How in the world does Michigan State outrank us on the "admirability" scale?
|13 weeks 5 days ago||"Other than McGary" pretty||
"Other than McGary" pretty much answers your own question. You can achieve any level of college or pro success at Michigan. Also, there are new assistants, so perhaps the big man coaching is different/better.
|13 weeks 5 days ago||Username checks out.||
Username checks out.
|17 weeks 2 days ago||I'd take it. I guess he||
I'd take it. I guess he doesn't much like us to win, though, from that last line.
|17 weeks 5 days ago||Nope. We'd rather have Johns||
Nope. We'd rather have Johns at that position. So Kithier was not a take for Michigan.
|18 weeks 5 days ago||(To be clear, that wasn't a||
(To be clear, that wasn't a criticism or lecture for having not seen the other comments yet...)
|18 weeks 5 days ago||I understand. Mine is just||
I understand. Mine is just one man's humble opinion.
|18 weeks 5 days ago||Correct, and you'll see that||
Correct, and you'll see that further down the thread, but that 2 is in Woodson's and Desmond's numbers...it carries some Michigan tradition with it.
|18 weeks 5 days ago||I wouldn't expect a block||
I wouldn't expect a block M...Harbaugh took those off last year. Personally, I'm disappointed we changed the number font, and the Jumpman seems too low / close to the numbers, but overall, nothing too terribly controversial.
|18 weeks 6 days ago||Seriously...because then we||
Seriously...because then we won't have tractor beams pulling us unwillingly into these clearly titled threads...
|19 weeks 15 hours ago||Agreed. I had my hopes up||
Agreed. I had my hopes up when I saw reference to another transfer. Still holding out hope there's a grad transfer that can help us at the 4 spot this upcoming year but that's likely a pipe dream and/or the ship has sailed.
|19 weeks 15 hours ago||He grew up a fan of MSU but||
He grew up a fan of MSU but realized Michigan is a better fit for his game and it's also a better school. You have to assume he'll go green but feels like a classic heart vs head battle.
|19 weeks 20 hours ago||Well put. It's just so ironic||
Well put. It's just so ironic they want to play the victim card considering how many real victims were created by what happened.
|19 weeks 2 days ago||Because we prefer Kyle Young.||
Because we prefer Kyle Young.
|19 weeks 5 days ago||What's the difference between||
What's the difference between a Kia and a BMW? They both have four tires and get you from point A to point B...
|20 weeks 12 hours ago||I wouldn't put stock into it.||
I wouldn't put stock into it. Meyer basically said he just wanted it off Indiana. It's going to be a drawn out recruitment regardless.
|20 weeks 1 day ago||I had the same question about||
I had the same question about the source, but it looks like that's his AAU team.
|20 weeks 1 day ago||#JordanEffect?||
|20 weeks 1 day ago||Others includes Ohio State,||
Others includes Ohio State, who just offered. And of note, his childhood favorite just won the national title and he chose Michigan. Very interesting!
|20 weeks 1 day ago||For sure, and just because we||
For sure, and just because we won last year of course does not mean we'll win this year. Just saying that last year's Texas game is a more relevant data point than our non-Texas games last year. That's all...
|20 weeks 1 day ago||But the implication is that||
But the implication is that we should be particularly concerned with *this* game. About which I disagree for reasons more relevant than all of our other noncon games.
|20 weeks 1 day ago||You mean like last year, when||
You mean like last year, when we beat Texas?
|20 weeks 2 days ago||You talking about Meyer's||
You talking about Meyer's crystal ball, or something more?
|20 weeks 2 days ago||Or, simply live in other||
Or, simply live in other cities.
|23 weeks 6 days ago||Caris is represented by Jay||
Caris is represented by Jay Z's agency, right? And Jay Z has an ownership stake in the Nets? They have better information than anyone.
|24 weeks 4 days ago||A point or a reason? Because||
A point or a reason? Because there's a difference and these commitments certainly don't prove a point.
|24 weeks 5 days ago||Except in this case, it was a||
Except in this case, it was a poster (not a mod) on Rivals that brought up the WR by name, within a thread that was not about this rumor. On Scout, it was a main topic of a post made by a mod, and the name was not given.
|26 weeks 2 days ago||(...except his team||
(...except his team lost)
Don't get me wrong, I think it's funny. Just a slightly imperfect burn.
Of course, the guy Iverson stepped over isn't doing too great right now either.
|27 weeks 12 hours ago||May be right...hard to say.||
May be right...hard to say. We had a B1G champ and Elite Eight team that lost to Charlotte in the non-con. I think Beilein's teams take some time to round into form.
|27 weeks 12 hours ago||Gee, if only there were two||
Gee, if only there were two major extenuating circumstances that changed our outlook on last season. Hmmm...........
|27 weeks 12 hours ago||A 5 seed is "great"? People||
A 5 seed is "great"?
People make "excuses" for positive things?
|27 weeks 12 hours ago||Weren't tournament quality is||
Weren't tournament quality is fairly dumb thing to say considering they won a play-in game and led in the second half of the next game against a team that made the Sweet 16. They literally already proved that statement wrong.
As far as being maxed out, Irvin was clearly not 100% from his back surgery all season, Walton is a year behind in development also due to injury, and Robinson redshirted a year and only has one year at the D-1 level. So none of those guys fits the mold of being maxed out as a result of being rising seniors.
On top of that, you need to take into account that some other teams that were ahead of Michigan last year will lose enough to graduation/NBA that Michigan *can* move up even if they strictly treaded water.
You can be pessimistic...that is certainly your right...but obviously others see it differently. You probably shouldn't speak for them.
|27 weeks 13 hours ago||This is true as of August 1.||
This is true as of August 1.
|28 weeks 15 hours ago||You've done the hard part already by getting multiple offers.||
Having multiple offers is all the leverage you need to counter. What you didn't mention is which company/team you'd rather work with and how the offers compare. Here's where it gets super easy: if the company you'd rather work for has the lower offer. A counter along the lines of "I'd rather work here but the other offer is higher and I have an obligation to my family. If you could even just match this, I'm yours". If they have any ability at all to meet it, done deal, and you don't look like you're grubbing for money, you just look like you're protecting your family (and you are).
If the company you'd rather work for has the higher offer, then it's slightly less black and white, but you should 100% still go back with "I'd rather work here, but I'm fortunate enough to have a couple of offers to choose from, and I need to do what's right for my family. Is there any room here to negotiate?"
Stay humble, stay polite, but for God sakes, make the ask.
|29 weeks 2 days ago||True. He's already full of||
True. He's already full of shit.
|29 weeks 6 days ago||Dude, you of all people||
Dude, you of all people should know that shiny metal reflects other colors, and that Voltron comes up against enemies of various colors. It's the reflection. Duh.
|29 weeks 6 days ago||Re: Leonard Taylor||
It's a good thing that Michigan should have a very strong showing in the next NFL Draft to even up the score a bit in his mind about which program offers better pro opportunities. Not that Michigan will do as well (5 first rounders set or tied a record) but also, Harbaugh and staff obviously know the pro game.
|31 weeks 2 days ago||That said, Larry doesn't seem||
That said, Larry doesn't seem to care much for NCAA rules. Seemingly gets busted at every stop.
|31 weeks 5 days ago||I think he meant his German||
I think he meant his German sausage.
|32 weeks 9 hours ago||Speaking of "swing and miss",||
Speaking of "swing and miss", do you watch baseball with this same mindset? Because even elite recruiters miss on far more kids than they land.
|32 weeks 9 hours ago||"Recruiting him" is the||
"Recruiting him" is the answer to the question. That said, he's cousins with J Rich, so would be an even tougher pull than it normally would.
|32 weeks 10 hours ago||Can't? You mean like when he||
You mean like when he JUST did it for Austin Davis?
You can hammer all day that he should have done it for Langford and not for Davis (I won't even disagree with you)....but saying he "can't" shows how off-base your takes on Beilein are.
|32 weeks 1 day ago||If I'm understanding his quote correctly,||
Deontre has jets flying around and fireworks exploding at his home on a regular basis.
That sounds awesome.
|32 weeks 1 day ago||Final Fours?||
Shit, how many tournaments has Amaker made?
|32 weeks 3 days ago||That sounds, um, personal.||
That sounds, um, personal.
Maybe you need a little go blue pill.
I hope the games don't go to OT, or else they might last longer than four hours.
|32 weeks 3 days ago||No, you're thinking of his||
No, you're thinking of his "hoodie pass". But only if manufactured by Nike and using that special stitching they used that one time in 1996.
|32 weeks 6 days ago||Speak for yourself. Why on||
Speak for yourself. Why on God's green earth are you chastising someone for providing information in an online forum? There is no reasonable explanation.
|34 weeks 1 day ago||Seems like the inside word is||
Seems like the inside word is that Jackson wanted to go to MSU (but lost to mom who wanted him out of state). So, it's not that crazy.
|34 weeks 1 day ago||Also profoundly, and without||
Also profoundly, and without any boundlys.
|34 weeks 6 days ago||That's absolutely not what I||
That's absolutely not what I mean. And I disagree. Some guys can relate better with kids and are better natural salesmen than others. I'm not as frustrated with Beilein's recruiting as others, but it never hurts.
|34 weeks 6 days ago||If we're hiring a "whatever,||
If we're hiring a "whatever, man" assistant, I'd like to hire someone that can recruit.
|35 weeks 14 hours ago||Yep. I'd wager a ton of $||
Yep. I'd wager a ton of $ that we'll have the best season of those three programs. If our fans appreciate that less, then that's a choice I guess.
|36 weeks 5 days ago||Uh...no. It's a travel if you||
Uh...no. It's a travel if you keep the ball without dropping/dribbling it. Sheesh.
|37 weeks 2 days ago||Stephen F Austin's coach is||
Stephen F Austin's coach is off the table as of today, but...you see this in every sport every year. Mid-major program gets hot and then suddenly their coach is in high demand. These types of coaches fail at their next stop more than they succeed. The thing is, if you're going to fire Beilein, it you need a >> 50% chance the situation is going to improve. Even someone like Shaka Smart, who made a Final Four from VCU and has not only been offered but turned down jobs like UCLA (!) has been beaten by Beilein both times we've played. I'm not sure there's an attainable candidate (e.g. Brad Stevens) that gives us a greater likelihood of success than failure, let alone much greater.
|37 weeks 2 days ago||Marshall and Archie seem like||
Marshall and Archie seem like great coaches. But the thing is...what makes you think they'd do better at Michigan than Beilein? Why do you think people would laugh at it?
|37 weeks 2 days ago||Fine...and I'd be interested||
Fine...and I'd be interested to see the adjusted numbers...but I would argue that nobody really cares about conference record...they care about conference championships (which is certainly impacted by record), they care about tournament success (which is certainly impacted by seeding, which is impacted by record) but whether we're 11-7 or 10-8 in a given year doesn't rate highly.
|37 weeks 2 days ago||So the guy got a top ten||
So the guy got a top ten class, yes?
He put 6 guys into the NBA?
I guess he *can* recruit?
Also, the advice to "do more of that" is nice. He should also just "do more winning". Hell, why not "do more winning national championships"? Done! We should have thought of this years ago!
|37 weeks 2 days ago||I find the disconnect between||
I find the disconnect between your username and the notion that we are the second best basketball program in our own state to be humorous. Not in an antagonistic way...in a 10,000 spoons when all you need is a knife kind of way.
|37 weeks 2 days ago||What is irrational from the||
What is irrational from the Beilein defenders? Genuinely curious.
As to getting bounced by Ohio...yeah, that sucked, but Ohio also made the Sweet 16, where they took a 1 seed to overtime. Sometimes you just run into a buzzsaw.
I'm also not sure why you'd want to discount the Elite Eight run. That Tennessee team was also hot, beat a 6 seed by 19 points, beat a team that beat Duke, etc.
Anyway, 2 B1G titles and 2 deep runs in 9 years is certainly on par with the peaks of our other coaches in this program historically. Strack had a three year run on the back of Cazzie. Orr won two conference titles and had three deep runs. Frieder had a few highly ranked teams but didn't do well in March. Fisher had three deep runs, but never could win the conference, and has an asterisk next to two of those three.
Point is, Beilein is NOT underperforming our "significant history of success". In fact, I'd say he's right in line from the perspective of making the tournament, winning conference championships, and making deep tourney runs. He's light on winning percentage, but I think it's fair to discount his first season and last year given the injuries.
|37 weeks 2 days ago||Jackson is the other guy||
Jackson is the other guy that's a plus athlete, but his athleticism didn't skew the game for ND either.
|37 weeks 2 days ago||This team improved a ton from||
This team improved a ton from last year...from a .500 overall club that missed the NIT to one that (technically) won a game in the NCAA Tournament (or at least made the field). Seven win differential......and, importantly, that doesn't even account for the injuries. Another seven win improvement and this team is a 2 seed.
|37 weeks 2 days ago||I actually thought Notre Dame||
I actually thought Notre Dame looked much less athletic than us (save for Auguste, but his impact on the game was not outsized). But they made a lot of shots, and played nice post defense in the second half.
|37 weeks 6 days ago||Don't be ridiculous. Elite||
Don't be ridiculous. Elite Eight.
|38 weeks 4 hours ago||You were correct at the||
You were correct at the beginning of your second paragraph. Coulda shoulda stopped there.
|38 weeks 4 hours ago||No. Ok, maybe. But that||
|38 weeks 4 hours ago||Why don't you check my posts||
Why don't you check my posts in this thread (also calm TF down)?
Yes, we've played on Monday in April 6 times (read my post above...we have a ton to be proud of), but if you think we're on a level plane with Duke, Carolina, Kansas, UCLA, Kentucky historically then you're out of your mind.
|38 weeks 5 hours ago||This post proves I'm capable||
This post proves I'm capable of agreeing with MaizeHaze.
We have a great history. The challenge with it is that so much of it was achieved under different conditions or is just really ancient history for today's recruits.
|38 weeks 5 hours ago||Ha ha ha ha.(a) False about||
Ha ha ha ha.
(a) False about my paycheck.
(b) Completely irrelevant anyway.
(c) Why don't you try arguing on the merits of the facts? Tell me where I'm wrong.
Strack had Cazzie, Orr had his Green/Hubbard/et al team, Frieder/Fisher had one Final Four team (that counted), Beilein had one Final Four team. Where am I wrong?
|38 weeks 9 hours ago||Let's just keep adding to||
Let's just keep adding to your tally of incorrect assertions.
This is a message board, friend. You have to use the words you mean to convey your point of view. There is no other mode of communication here.
|38 weeks 10 hours ago||Except that Beilein exceeded||
Except that Beilein exceeded State for a 2-3 year stretch, so I disagree that you can look on Beilein's tenure and frame it as always and forever taking a backseat in state. In other words, we have already gained more than you are claiming.
But if you are saying that the minimum expectation to keep a job is to outpace a Hall of Famer...well, that's not rational. But you agree on that given the first sentence of the last paragraph.
|38 weeks 11 hours ago||And the point is those||
And the point is those programs you've listed are not "Sweet 16 teams every year at a minimum".
I've now realized that these concepts are above your head. It's amazing that you continue to play offense on the name calling. But please, keep going. It's good entertainment.
|38 weeks 12 hours ago||Probably because our||
Probably because our basketball program, while still having a ton to be proud of historically, is a tier below the "blue blood" status that our football program enjoys.
And, perhaps more importantly, we are doing far better than "mediocrity" in years where we don't lose our best player(s) and/or co-captain(s) to injury.
|38 weeks 12 hours ago||Nah, we are definitely a top||
Nah, we are definitely a top 25 program all time, in spite of our athletic department not taking the sport seriously for most of recent history. Now they are (granted, with the stipulation we stay extremely clean so as not to embarrass the university). That said, the list of schools that meet the hurdles being discussed here is far, far smaller than 25, or 16, or even 7 (Beilein's pay rank).
|38 weeks 13 hours ago||And each of those Final Four||
And each of those Final Four decades was accomplished with one core group of players over the course of 1-2 years. Exactly the level of success that Beilein has re-established.
|38 weeks 13 hours ago||Might be true, but it's||
Might be true, but it's definitely true that we recruited Costello "first". Maybe we would have taken both in the scenario that we got him.
|38 weeks 13 hours ago||If that floats your boat, go||
If that floats your boat, go ahead. It doesn't make what I called them incorrect unlike some of your assertions. And you still have yet to rebut with any arguments of substance.
|38 weeks 13 hours ago||If that's true, it's only||
If that's true, it's only because of his injury. He was in every single mock draft as, not just a first rounder, but a mid first rounder, for two years prior to the very end of his injury streak. Even late this year, he was still a spot ahead of Valentine on Ford's board.
But now the injury has sustained and it muddies the waters. You won't be right if he doesn't end up drafted there.
|38 weeks 13 hours ago||More than are Sweet 16||
More than are Sweet 16 programs *every year*.
And you can't keep answering questions with more questions, while also shifting the burden of proof for your grand proclamations to me. You have every opportunity to bring some facts to this discussion and prove me wrong. I have an open mind, I promise.
|38 weeks 14 hours ago||I'm not accepting mediocrity.||
I'm not accepting mediocrity. Just saying we can fall short of each of those programs in their respective sports and still be top ten in the country. I'd still WANT more, but it would be dumb to EXPECT more. Just saying "blur blur we should match our rivals" sounds a lot like Dave Brandon's approach to coach firing (see tennis). And THAT GUY said "if I fired John Beilein, I'd just have to go out and find another John Beilein".
|38 weeks 14 hours ago||CONTEXT is that if you are||
CONTEXT is that if you are expecting Beilein to make Final Fours while coaching Canisius and Richmond, then you're out to lunch.
You can call those two years anomalies, but if you take away the best two years of every single coach Michigan has ever had, then we've accomplished not a lot as a basketball program.
And then to turn around and use that success that Beilein achieved to say our subsequent performance was unacceptable to you seems quite hypocritical.
Yes, I am disappointed we didn't capitalize on those runs. But you don't fire the guy for it. He made those runs in the first place.
|38 weeks 14 hours ago||http://www.umhoops.com/recrui||
In Doyle's case, perhaps there are extenuating circumstances for his lack of development this year (his sophomore year, mind you)?
As for others, you can make that argument, but then you'd have to admit that player development was elite over the prior cycle with players like Burke, Hardaway, LeVert, Albrecht.
So which is it? Because it's one or the other right now, the post I responded to said we were recruiting like a MAC school. Which is clearly untrue.
I think you don't pay much attention to schools other than Michigan and have lost the forest for the trees.
|38 weeks 14 hours ago||Exactly how many programs||
Exactly how many programs have achieved Michigan State's success over the past 10-20 years?
Sure, I love getting the better of them (and during our peak, we won 6 of 9)...but saying your minimum expectation is that we should be better than a program that has achieved top 3 (?) success nationally over the past 20 years is fairly delusional. And saying it will be "easier" with the right coach is completely bonkers. With a HOF coach, it won't be "easy".
Would you say the same about football needing to be "favorable" with Ohio State? Most people acknowledge that equal footing is a reasonable expectation for our blue blood football program.
|38 weeks 14 hours ago||I'd love to compare "smarts"||
I'd love to compare "smarts" head to head with you. The fact you even went there shows you don't have a leg to stand on here.
I literally said we should be a consistently top 25 team. NOBODY does it every SINGLE year, that's my point. 8 or 9 years out of 10, sure, let's do it.
If you think the program (and by that I mean Schlissel and Manuel) should "move on"...I won't disagree with you. But the fact is we haven't. And under those conditions, we are on the wrong end of a sloped playing field. I'm sorry you can't accept it.
|38 weeks 14 hours ago||...a MAC team that won||
...a MAC team that won another game (granted, against a low seed), but then took 1 seed Carolina to OT.
So, yes, a disappointing result in that one game sample (vs. season long), but also possible they simply ran into a buzzsaw that year.
Context is your friend.
|38 weeks 14 hours ago||EVERY program not named Duke,||
EVERY program not named Duke, Kansas, or Kentucky has a small handful of players with mid-major offers.
Wilson and Doyle were 4-stars (thanks for reminding me, I left them off my list by mistake).
Walton was third team all B1G and Irvin was Honorable Mention. Sounds like a real benchwarmers to me.
Look, there are some issues, no question. But you are way off the pessimistic end of the spectrum.
|38 weeks 14 hours ago||You're right, it wasn't||
You're right, it wasn't Brian's percentages. Mea culpa. He did agree with it.
But, to your point... Now you're moving the bar...first you said 16, now you're saying 25.
I hope we can be consistently top 25 too (every *single* year is STILL too high a bar, even Duke fell out during this season), and I think, given the injuries, it's premature to say that Beilein can't do that. I'd want to see our chances over the past two years with our intended lineups.
The one thing I would say that is an anchor is playing by NCAA rules. Chalk that up to an "excuse" if you want, but for as long as this athletic department would rather we abide by the rules as written rather than as followed by the types of teams that are top 25 every single year, then that will be a limiter on our performance. You can deny that, but it's naive.
|38 weeks 14 hours ago||Well, we won a conference||
Well, we won a conference championship with Novak there.
|38 weeks 14 hours ago||You just named three Hall of||
You just named three Hall of Fame coaches, only two of which even still coach. Sounds like Brian's percentages hold.
|38 weeks 14 hours ago||Can you tell me one mid-major||
Can you tell me one mid-major that rolls out a starting lineup with:
...and brings off the bench:
...and that's not even counting the first round draft pick that sat out most of the year injured.
Yes, he's missed on plenty of Plan A's, but guess what...Hardaway was a Plan C (behind Prather and Ziegler), Burke was a Plan B (behind Pangos), McGary was a Plan B (behind Costello, though certainly there were considerations other than talent for that order).
Point is, his current guys haven't developed the same way as their predecessors, but the problem isn't "recruiting like a mid-major".
|38 weeks 14 hours ago||Can you please tell me how||
Can you please tell me how many programs are "solid sweet 16 teams at minimum every year"?
I know it's not Kentucky (missed the tournament three years ago), North Carolina (lost in second round as 8 seed four years ago), Indiana, even State was a 7 seed last year (yes, they overperformed in the tournament). Maybe Duke and Kansas, though both are prone to upsets in March. Curious which and how many schools hit that bar.
|38 weeks 14 hours ago||And then what happened? They||
And then what happened? They both got hurt. So us being in this situation again doesn't mean it was wrong before. Bad luck happened and circumstances changed. Let's try again this year and hope for better injury luck for the first time in three years.
|38 weeks 15 hours ago||Clearly true, but change 30||
Clearly true, but change 30 to 25 (not a meaningful change) and the point stands.
|38 weeks 2 days ago||Well, I didn't say "most" end||
Well, I didn't say "most" end up disconnecting HDMI, I said "a lot" and my evidence is mainly anecdotal. I don't know the overall stats, I just think it's a personal preference thing that doesn't *necessarily* add value to the overall entertainment options for everyone. DVR feature does sound pretty cool. Overall, on utility for "non-game" entertainment, I'd look to the actual features rather than the marketing. I guarantee if MSFT had to do it over again, they'd downplay the entertainment features as a central value proposition for their box until later in the console cycle. That hurt them with their core audience out of the gate.
Interesting point about sales on Gold. Something to consider.
|38 weeks 2 days ago||Just to be sure this is||
Just to be sure this is clear, I agree that #1 is the most important criteria along with "has the exclusive games you want to play most". Xbox has Halo and Gears of War. PlayStation has games like Uncharted, Gran Turismo, and MLB The Show. Those should be the biggest drivers.
But I wanted to address a couple other points...
(1) The PS4 is the technically superior box, and while Xbox will have some games in 1080p, they will have fewer of them overall, with worse performance.
(2) You are saying Xbox is the choiec if "entertainment outside of the game system matters" in a thread where the topic is PS Vue. Thus, the comment is overly simplistic. Obviously PS Vue is a platform exclusive. In terms of other streaming services, the two boxes are on par. Yes, Xbox has HDMI through, but that doesn't necessarily add value to your experience, a lot of people end up disconnecting it. So, it's a simplistic way to think about the choice. It may be that's preferable for you, or maybe PS Vue or other PS features are preferable.
(3) Both machines require subscription services (Plus and Gold) to play online multiplayer games, and PlayStation's is cheaper. Another consideration.
Good luck with your choice and enjoy it.
|38 weeks 3 days ago||Prob true against any||
Prob true against any non-local team except Notre Dame.
|38 weeks 4 days ago||Because there's a magic spell||
Because there's a magic spell that coaches in year 9 don't lose an NBA draft pick (and senior captain) and also their senior co-captain 6th man?
Your "9th year" rant would make more sense if the team on the court was the team Beilein should have expected to have on the court.
|38 weeks 4 days ago||So does Beilein. And everyone||
So does Beilein.
And everyone in this thread seems to be underrating the slope of the playing field. It's not level for Michigan. If Michigan wants to play it clean, they need a developer.
|38 weeks 4 days ago||You mean underrated 3 star||
You mean underrated 3 star kid and Plan C recruit (Hardaway), borderline 3/4 star kid (Burke), low 4 star kid (Stauskas), underrated 3 star kid (Levert), and low 4 star kid (Morris). McGary is the one real exception. GRob ended up high in the rankings but committed to Beilein as a three star.
There's no question we need pros to win big. But to say it needs to come from elite recruits completely ignores Beilein's track record.
|39 weeks 19 hours ago||You forgot the quotation||
You forgot the quotation marks. "Improved training"
|39 weeks 3 days ago||For one, we lost McGary that||
For one, we lost McGary that year and still won. For two, those guys were back before the tournaments of which you speak. So, irrelevant compared to this season for Caris and Spike.
|39 weeks 3 days ago||This is only true if his||
This is only true if his injury lingers. If healthy (which is the premise of this argument), he was consistently in the top half of everyone's mock drafts. So pardon me if I take their opinion instead of yours.
|39 weeks 3 days ago||Speaking of Izzo and||
Speaking of Izzo and injuries, MSU was 4-4 in the games Valentine missed and directly following. And one of those wins was against Oakland in OT. So, you tell me...does taking an NBA player out of the lineup make a big difference?
|40 weeks 18 hours ago||And in fact may be a problem||
And in fact may be a problem if Allen outkicks the coverage.
|40 weeks 1 day ago||Thing is...from a Southerner,||
Thing is...from a Southerner, I think that's an unfettered compliment. Not positive on that, but that's my translation.
|40 weeks 1 day ago||Except he didn't completely||
Except he didn't completely shut down this year, he tried to give it a go. And he looked gimpy. And had a setback. I can understand (I think it's awfully cynical but I understand) having that opinion if he never played. But he did. So it makes no gott damn sense.
|40 weeks 3 days ago||Seems reasonable. Appreciate||
Seems reasonable. Appreciate the work.
|40 weeks 6 days ago||Florida is presumed to be a||
Florida is presumed to be a favorite. In fact, he's quoted as being fans of Harvin and other Urban Meyer players at Florida, which may also say things about OSU's chances.
|41 weeks 1 day ago||Just imagine a beatdown of||
Just imagine a beatdown of Sparty or Ohio State on the television...then it's this scene basically:
|41 weeks 3 days ago||I'm sorry, Mr Swenson.||
I'm sorry, Mr Swenson. Despite the fact that it was much much more than "a few days before NSD", that was definitely unfortunate and the vast majority of us, including Mr. Harbaugh, hope to have better communication in future instances. I know this doesn't help your son, but really, Oklahoma is not quite so bad as to call it being "fucked over".
|41 weeks 5 days ago||HOLY SHIT...you were joking,||
HOLY SHIT...you were joking, but that would actually be brilliant. It would be the "fine, you don't like satellite camps, well guess what, you're all invited to our camp on our campus" moment for the spring break practice issue. Of course, substitute any cause that is actually for the students (health insurance? CTE research?) for bagmen for maximum effect.
Sincerely Yours in Football.
|41 weeks 5 days ago||Even Chris Webber was deemed||
Even Chris Webber was deemed by the NCAA to have not received recruiting incentives to come to Michigan, but rather received illegal benefits that thus rendered him ineligible.
|41 weeks 5 days ago||Man, I wish I was OP's boss.||
Man, I wish I was OP's boss. He/she would be fired so effing hard for others' mistakes that are completely unrelated to him.
|41 weeks 5 days ago||This year's team has a real||
This year's team has a real knack for getting blown out, that's true. And it's effing awful. But that's not been a consistent theme for Beilein teams. I don't think it's fair to call it a trait of his teams....just this one.
One other difference between Hoke and Beilein on the topic of integrity, though...for as bad as college football is and is becoming, college basketball is still a far dirtier sport. So there's a matter of degree there. Plus, individual recruits mean a lot more in basketball.
|41 weeks 5 days ago||Solid post with a lot of...||
...comments that I think most Michigan fans would agree with. A few additional thoughts:
1) I don't think it's reasonable to talk about the past two years without mentioning the very real impact of the injuries. MSU went 4-4 without Valentine and while he worked his way back into the rotation (with one of those wins against Oakland in OT). Meanwhile, we've missed Caris all calendary year, and Caris is STILL one spot AHEAD of Valentine on Chad Ford's board in spite of his lingering injury. Think that would make a difference? Then you add in Spike, which at a minimum would give Walton the rest he needs, but Spike's better than just that anyway. Anyway, it's a very real factor in viewing the last two years as a downward trend.
2) I know this board likes to poo-poo the issue, but we are operating at a tangible disadvantage on the recruiting trail. College basketball is a dirty sport and we are not playing it that way. Will Warde Manuel change that and essentially give the program "permission" to level the playing field? We'll see. But, while I along with most fans are definitely dissapointed that we did not capitalize on our Final Four run, it's just one of those issues that I have a really hard time holding against Beilein.
|41 weeks 6 days ago||For one, we don't have to be||
For one, we don't have to be the worst offender about something for it to be an issue. For two, my advice is don't take it personally. Does everything everyone says about our fan base annoy you? To be clear, I said it's the worst thing about our fanbase, but I didn't trash our fan base. What if I said the worst thing about Harbaugh is he chews tobacco. You still think I don't have a huge man crush for Jim Harbaugh?
|42 weeks 2 hours ago||We outrebounded OSU and||
We outrebounded OSU and Donnal went for 17 and 7 (vs OSU's center, who went for 12 and 1). I don't like Donnal's game, but that loss was not on our bigs.
|42 weeks 4 hours ago||I'd further say that I even||
I'd further say that I even believe that football and basketball players *should* get paid, but for as long as Michigan is going to stick to the rules as they currently stand, it's not an even playing field.
I was also going to note that Fisher wasn't doing himself any favors with allegations of impropriety at San Diego State, but I just found out that he was cleared. Good for him (genuinely).
|42 weeks 4 hours ago||I am willing...||
...to concede that our dynamic is not fully unique (I frankly don't really know), but it feels "football school"y to me, so I'd at least argue to limit to that cohort.
And what I mean by that is there's a perspective that many primarily-football fans bring to basketball that is really aggravating, that stems from (a) automatically expecting that Michigan's football standards (true blue blood) are Michigan's basketball standards (a lot to be proud of, but not top tier), and (b) thinking that every regular season loss is catastrophic (basketball has much more variability during a 30-40 game season).
Further, there are parallels between Michigan football fan's love for manball and throwing quarterbacks and their related disdain for spread offense and running quarterbacks with their love for two post offenses and related disdain for a four out three-point-shot based offense.
|42 weeks 6 hours ago||This. It's the worst thing||
This. It's the worst thing about the Michigan fan base and is probably why karma keeps kicking the program in the nuts for the past 25 years.
|42 weeks 15 hours ago||Thanks for latching on to a||
Thanks for latching on to a tertiary point of mine.
But as long as we agree that we were not "supremely" buttsexed, whatever you want to imagine last night's game was is cool with me.
|42 weeks 17 hours ago||I'm just saying what you||
I'm just saying what you described is called "losing".
"Supremely buttsexed" is what happened against Xavier, SMU, Indiana, and Michigan State.
|42 weeks 17 hours ago||And to reiterate, we are||
And to reiterate, we are talking about Josh Jackson, not any random top recruit.
|42 weeks 17 hours ago||Points are points, man.||
Points are points, man. Doesn't matter how you score them. For instance, we scored fewer points in the paint than Purdue. But we won.
We also outrebounded both teams.
|42 weeks 18 hours ago||First of all, Grady wasn't a||
First of all, Grady wasn't a Beilein recruit, so the denominator is 13. Of those, 5 played in the NBA. So your stat is bullshit. 5/13 4 stars to the League is actually not close to turrible. And you still have to account for the fact that a full 5 of them are still playing, so you can't measure their ceiling yet. Then on top of that, he put 3 stars like Trey Burke to NPOY and the lottery. Caris is also a pro if injuries don't derail him. So eyeing talent and development is not an issue either. You could argue that he should get more high 4s and 5 stars. But then again, the number of coaches that have both put as many guys into the NBA *and* achieved the same level of conference championship and tournament success over the past 4-5 years is extremely small. So again, I'm not saying there aren't reasons for concern, but you guys are just flat wrong in your assessment of what the concern is.
|42 weeks 18 hours ago||10 points on the road is||
10 points on the road is supremely buttsexed?
Look, I don't like losing to Ohio State (or anyone) either, but exaggerate much?
|42 weeks 1 day ago||Jesus, man. That might be a||
Jesus, man. That might be a reasonable take if we were talking about, I dunno, Tyus Battle to Syracuse or something. Jackson is in another stratosphere. It would be like wondering why we didn't recruit Cam Newton. My point stands...clearly you don't know this specific situation very well.
Beyond that, you're lumping in all kinds of other arguments that don't relate here.
|42 weeks 1 day ago||Is that the full extent of||
Is that the full extent of his opinion of Beilein?
Also, do you expect Warde to be more aggressive in building the program than his predecessors? Will he loosen the rules around what the program can do to recruit?
Appreciate the insight.
|42 weeks 1 day ago||You clearly know nothing||
You clearly know nothing about Josh Jackson. Either that, or about the way that Michigan approaches its basketball program.
Unless Warde decides it's time to change the "culture" of the program (and to be clear, by that I mean our willingness to wade into gray areas or outright rule-restricted areas), then we're NEVER going to get a Josh Jackson.
|42 weeks 1 day ago||Neglect? Apparently you've||
Neglect? Apparently you've "neglected" to notice that we have a Final Four and multiple conference championships in Beilein's tenure. The latter is something that Fisher (who directly contributed to said scandal) can't even claim.
|42 weeks 1 day ago||And you have the same number||
And you have the same number of brains (1) as Albert Einstein, but nobody will ever confuse the two of you.
Don't hate the data. Don't hate the messenger.
|42 weeks 4 days ago||Sarah actually wasn't||
Sarah actually wasn't caddying yesterday, not sure why and not sure if she's back today or not.
|43 weeks 18 hours ago||It also makes sense for more||
It also makes sense for more popular celebs to get paired with less well known pros and vice versa, to balance the crowds. That said, per below, it sounds like Jim is friends with his paired pro.
|43 weeks 18 hours ago||In case anyone's going - I'm||
In case anyone's going - I'm reading the linked article to say that these are the Round 2 tee times, so Friday, rather than Thursday as stated by OP.
|43 weeks 1 day ago||Agree. Exhibit A is Lloyd's||
Agree. Exhibit A is Lloyd's post-championship class.
|43 weeks 2 days ago||While I don't think it||
While I don't think it explains everything, I do think it's at least fair to mention, if you're going to call Fisher our best coach historically, that his best accomplishments have been erased from the record books. It at least deserves the asterisk.
Also, I'd quibble that you should throw out Beilein's first year as a program rebuild for sake of win %, but whatever.
|43 weeks 4 days ago||What's the alternative? Is||
What's the alternative? Is Warde going to decide the basketball program can get more aggressive in recruiting?
If Warde is going to allow a culture change, then maybe not, but if he keeps the status quo that the bball program needs to be squeaky clean, then yes I am.
|43 weeks 4 days ago||I hope he does. And if it's||
I hope he does. And if it's not Beilein, I hope he's right. Though I think it's only fair to note that Calhoun was a cheater and Ollie was already on staff. I hope Warde deserves credit in there that will foretell good things about what will be done at Michigan, but I don't think it's a slam dunk.
|43 weeks 4 days ago||And Harvard is 184 in KenPom.||
And Harvard is 184 in KenPom.
|43 weeks 4 days ago||The program already knows the||
The program already knows the answer to that question. Michigan has no desire for the basketball program to wade into gray areas, let alone cheat. Frankly I'm surprised you think that's unclear.
|43 weeks 4 days ago||In addition to being||
In addition to being staggeringly idiotic, as articulated by rob f, your post is also wrong about his recruiting whether by rankings OR results. Higher ranked recruits, more NBA players, you name it.
|43 weeks 4 days ago||Because Beilein. That guy you||
Because Beilein. That guy you want to fire.
|43 weeks 4 days ago||It's also stupid to evaluate||
It's also stupid to evaluate a coach with as much tenure as Beilein has at Michigan by anything that happened prior to his arrival at Michigan. And what Beilein has achieved at Michigan is better than Michigan's had in 20 years.
|43 weeks 4 days ago||I'm in the "talk that Beilein||
I'm in the "talk that Beilein is on the hot seat is idiotic" camp but that class, while good on paper, has underperformed to date.
|43 weeks 4 days ago||I don't think that's a||
I don't think that's a relevant criteria. Flag late in the regular season but then make the title game? Fine. Get beat by Charlotte but then win the conference by three games and make the Elite Eight? Fine. Not many teams ever are consistently dominant all year. Basketball isn't like football.
|43 weeks 4 days ago||I don't disagree with the||
I don't disagree with the limited assertion that he's one great class, but if you pull in a Burke or a Hardaway's every year, then I don't think you Fire Beilein for it. Certainly recent recruiting trends are troubling but it's hard to evaluate, as guys like X are similarly rated as guys like Burke and Stauskas. I'm willing to give it time based on past success and the fact that the administration favors being clean over being elite.
|43 weeks 4 days ago||Then why did you list||
Then why did you list Hardaway's separately in your original post? Your logic is inconsistent.
|43 weeks 4 days ago||Since you made the comment||
Since you made the comment that blowouts matter. Just pointing out that the basis was inaccurate.
|43 weeks 4 days ago||If you don't care about the||
If you don't care about the conference, only the tourney, then how about we at least wait for this year's tourney performance?
|43 weeks 4 days ago||When did Hoke win the||
When did Hoke win the conference twice and play for a national championship?
|43 weeks 4 days ago||And even if it was one, that||
And even if it was one, that guy is a first round draft pick and player of the year candidate.
|43 weeks 4 days ago||He's having such a tough time||
He's having such a tough time competing in the conference. Except for the couple of times he's won it, neither with McGary playing.
|43 weeks 4 days ago||Burke wasn't part of the||
Burke wasn't part of the class you're thinking of, nor Hardaway's. So...false.
|43 weeks 4 days ago||This might be the dumbest||
This might be the dumbest comment I've read today, and that's a high bar.
|43 weeks 6 days ago||As with most things, you're||
As with most things, you're welcome to your own opinion. Why do you care what others think?
|44 weeks 3 days ago||Kind of. You're thinking of||
Kind of. You're thinking of the issue of oversigning. This isnt awesome, but it's also still not oversigning. Oversigning is running guys off the team prior to their graduation that are already on it because you want to bring in new recruits.
|45 weeks 4 hours ago||Don't be ridiculous...you||
Don't be ridiculous...you don't subtract 100%. Otherwise Hawkins would be zero.
No....it's that, since Elliott committed four times, the denominator is 400%. So he was only a shade over 25% committed.
|45 weeks 15 hours ago||I give that 40 time TBD||
I give that 40 time TBD fakes. Congrats, Brian and family!
|45 weeks 1 day ago||Hello One of Worst Posts EVAR||
Hello One of Worst Posts EVAR
|45 weeks 2 days ago||In spite of that, it's harder||
In spite of that, it's harder to get into than Michigan. Dat California stat (grades, test scores) inflation.
|46 weeks 2 days ago||I'm not saying I'm against||
I'm not saying I'm against the change, but these are bad analogies. The NFL doesn't require ANY players to be two way players, why would it require kickers to play middle linebacker? And in hockey, every player plays both offense and defense. Having a DH isn't like asking the goalie to play right wing...it's like subbing the goalie for a better skater on change of possession.
|46 weeks 3 days ago||Then it really is the||
Then it really is the #HokeEffect. Thank you, Brady.
|46 weeks 3 days ago||In a relationship. Oh no,||
In a relationship.
|46 weeks 5 days ago||The fundamental issue that I||
The fundamental issue that I think you misunderstand is that "playing time transfer" implies it's the kid's decision. If it's the coach's decision (for non-fifth years), then yes, that's oversigning.
|46 weeks 5 days ago||If Onwenu is 360 tall, then||
If Onwenu is 360 tall, then he should definitely play WR. Tacopants, anyone?
|47 weeks 1 day ago||Is history the degree||
Is history the degree Harbaugh wanted and was talked out of?
|47 weeks 6 days ago||Yeah. Frankly I think this is||
Yeah. Frankly I think this is the right call. As if players are going to have their mind on class if the decision had gone the other way.
|48 weeks 7 hours ago||Voltron Blue||
That would make sense if the most important output was to measure the predictors.
The most important output is to measure where a recruit is going. In that sense, you want only the "latest and greatest" point of view, which incorporates all available information, and stays up to date with the inevitable twists and turns.
For instance...does it really tell you anything that someone put in a crystal ball for a pro style QB that committed to a coach that was fired and replaced with a running spread guy? Obviously not.
|48 weeks 13 hours ago||Voltron Blue||
Completely get where you're coming from but slightly disagree. He definitely stayed the course on Bush and Walker once peeps started getting scared about FSU. It's fair that he's often vague enough so as not to be held accountable, but on the flip side, I also understand about protecting sources and recruits' own announcements, so my expectations on that stuff is low. That part about protecting sources also applies to non-recruiting stuff. Of course he can't be that specific without burning his source, so to require it to give him credibility is expecting too much, IMHO.
|48 weeks 13 hours ago||Voltron Blue||
There's a fair chance you're right. But let's say on 1/11 or 1/12 Michigan announces a permanent athletic director that is not one of the widely believed front-running candidates (let's say it's Joe Parker or whatever). Would that satisfy you that he has genuine connections? Because these claims are a bit more specific and therefore can be measured.
|48 weeks 2 days ago||Voltron Blue||
Clock management? How about not going for two after the last TD? I still don't understand that decision, unless his primary concern was to cover the spread rather than win the game.
|48 weeks 2 days ago||Voltron Blue||
The irony here is that the OP did not say anything about multiple national championships. In fact, he invokes Jesus Christ himself. Now, obviously it was tongue in cheek, but if anything the strawman was bigger than multiple national championships.
|48 weeks 3 days ago||Voltron Blue||
I'm confused by the "very unlikely as written" part. What's written is simply about an offer, not that Pagano would take it. What's "very unlikely" about that? You pretty much say what it likely is in your post.
|48 weeks 4 days ago||You're mad at Penn State for||
You're mad at Penn State for laying an egg in a conference with Northwestern, MSU, and Iowa? At least Penn State made a game of it, with a backup QB, and is a shitty team that shouldn't have had any expectations to begin with.
|48 weeks 5 days ago||Or...||
Or outside the manor, on the football field.