to play football, not to play trumpet
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- 2015 = 1 5*, 16 4*
- 2016 = 0 5*, 12 4*
- 2017 = 1 5*, 16 4*
- Leverage NFL and Stanford for CA.
- Start offsetting some of that Urban Meyer wow factor in FL with Flanagan
- Jim went to TX a ton even if it didnt result in anything, along with I believe 2 camps there (at least 1)
- We looked like we might bring Biff to UM until the Hamilton thing went down. But we did try to mine both MD (David) and VA (Hamilton, Spanellis).
- Starting a relationship in AL even if its a school without a lot of D1 prospects (Pratville doesnt have a single 4/5* in past 3 years)
- Massive push in NJ
- OH - 3
- MI - 1 (sigh)
- IN - 1
- FL - 2 (Bosa brother was one)
- MD - 2
- NJ - 1
|5 hours 29 min ago||Well from all the rumors one||
Well from all the rumors one player in the class would be a grayshirt if we got everyone we wanted. From Harbaugh's comments this stuff about Murphy not qualifying is crap as he said it was a "bruise" we did not get him, and they obviously wanted Boss to which would take us up to the 30 # some were projecting late (31 with the 1 grayshirt).
And that would mean 2 more departures than what is needed now.
|5 hours 33 min ago||Well as former walk ons you||
Well as former walk ons you have more flexibility with these 2 if you have a #s crunch.
They both "earned" it IMO but if the team can afford to give them it's another discussion. If there are only 4 more departures (post Cole & Strobel) the answer is no. If there are 6 departures the answer is yes. If there are 6 departues but then you get in 2 grad transfers the answer is once again no.
So what we'd like to do and what will be feasible are probably 2 different answers depending on who is coming and going.
|9 hours 28 min ago||Hopefully some imbecile||
Hopefully some imbecile writes a diary about this
|9 hours 31 min ago||2015 = 1 5*, 16 4* 2016 =||
Doesn't look like a down year to me. 2016 was the down year.
fwiw OSU already has 5 of the top 7 players in state committed.
|9 hours 39 min ago||Yes it was interesting to see||
Yes it was interesting to see Auburn do so well in GA this year but there was a coaching change and some kids who probably committed to Richt decided to go elsewhere. So it will be interesting to view 2017 and see how it changes. After the big 3 (CA, TX, FL) in comes GA so there is plenty to be had for everyone. GA dominated the 11-20 ranks which again - in most states - would be akin to 1-10; just loaded with high to mid 4*.
GA has 9 of the top 22 kids in GA - and all are 4* (except one 5*) ... just such an advantage.
But what GA faces brings me back to LSU. Everyone down south has to be going for those kids too - they border TX, MS (with AL a stone's throw away) and somehow Les has kept almost everyone in state. One day I might go look back at the last 5 years and see if that has been happening constantly and its somehow a "cultural thing" in LA to stay home vs other states, or if this year was just an amazing outlier.
|9 hours 49 min ago||Yeah looking at that list the||
Yeah looking at that list the only school who wasted more talent the past 10 years is Miami. Mack Brown wasted some talent but at least had the Vince Young years.
It really comes down to coaching + talent. Finally nice to have both working in synergy.
|9 hours 55 min ago||Don't want to get into an||
Don't want to get into an argument on these 2 players but you could say that for every low 3* in the country that a P5 program takes - "I'll take the coaches view over the scouting services anyday!" There are 100s of these cases each year. Some will work out big time (Willie Henry), many will be pretty true to their ratings out of HS.
I find it hard to believe Flanagan players were lightly scouted - they were state champions this year.
You can say the services screwed up these 2 but thats an opinion - lets see in 3 years. If your belief is that the 120th or 140th player has just as good of a ceiling as the 5th then there is no reason to follow recruiting rankings at all. That's akin to saying a low 3* corner in CA is just as good as David Long so no worries.
Again every year there are a lot of 3* that outplay their ranking - but who knows if its going to be these 2. We have no clue at this time. Desmond King was not a highly thought of recruit and is now All Big 10... but there are plenty of guys who bracketed Desmond King out of HS and didnt do much at all.
|10 hours 4 min ago||Nope. Far from it. CA has||
Nope. Far from it. CA has the most in absolute terms since its a huge state. I believe if CA was its own country it would be #7 or #8 in the world in population. Per capita means a massive concentration of football players relative to population. TX has same issue.
Follow the link at top of the story to see per capita results but #1 is LA and #2 is SC. Relatively medium to smallish populations with a ton of football being played. The only "big state" with both high absolute #s and high per capita is FL. OH is pretty decent too on both counts.
|10 hours 10 min ago||Agreed. And we need a scat||
Agreed. And we need a scat back like Gary....
|10 hours 13 min ago||So just like Freddy||
So just like Freddy Canteen?
|22 hours 51 min ago||I agree with item #1 about it||
I agree with item #1 about it being about specific players; I disagree with lack of resources. We have the same resources as Stanford and OSU - they are everywhere. That doesnt mean you need to commit resources to Idaho or Kansas or Maine. Harbaugh has shown a propensity to expand our recruiting resources far more than what it was under Hoke.
But going back to point 1 I agree - it is about players. If the top 4 safeties we want are all in Wisconsin well we go to Wisconsin to find a safety, overall trends be damned. To that end I think multiple top DTs are in NJ next year (good for us) so when we go after DTs we are going to be mining NJ because that just so happens to be where the 2017 vintage is. In 2018 it could be very different. I am just speaking bigger picture - not in any 1 year, and where to lay groundwork. And where to hurt our enemies.
To that end Maryland/DC/Va corridor makes sense not just because OSU PSU do well there but because its where population shift is happening to. IL I was taken aback how MSU dominated it like we dominated NJ. I dont want it to be easy for MSU anywhere. Its worth devoting resources there as they have 6-8 kids a year worth looking at, just like in MI and its close by and a long time Midwest footprint without a national power in it.
2016 was a unique class in UM went after every position in great number. It's a massive class size and we had needs everywhere. Other years won't be like this, I imagine the 2017 class will be mid 20s and by then we will have 55 kids devoted to 2017 and 2016. That doesnt leave much for 2018 even with Harbaugh attrition. So that year you need to have more precision and building groundwork so you can go into other states with relationships built is good to do ahead of time.
I do believe Harbaugh is doing these things - I do wonder if he will go after LA harder once Les retires or is pushed out. What I have seen so far is
These are all good things - some will take longer (TX, AL, D.C. corridor) than others (NJ, CA, FL) to develop. I think Jim is laying the groundwork.
|23 hours 1 min ago||"the coaches REALLY liked||
"the coaches REALLY liked them or showed skills at camps (Gil and Metellus)"
This was said after each low 3* we took at a camp, and eventually most were jettisoned when better players came along. Uche I get due to coach Brown wanting him and knowing him but I think the other 2 guys were sort of a package deal to get Bush and establish hopefully a pipeline.
"The coaches really liked X at camp" was said for a lot of people. If the #4 guy from MD wanted in and this was not a year we were establishing a relationship I think they would have taken their place.
Again not a big deal in 1 year and I am not being critical at all - just saying reality is the #4 player in IL or #2 player in MD has a better than even chance of having a high ceiling than the 140th player in FL. That said they have to want to come to UM too.
|1 day 1 hour ago||Can we stop with the "look at||
Can we stop with the "look at where UM was before Beilein got here" as part of any analysis go forward?
I agree with all that Beilein took us out of the darkness. There were probably 8-10 other guys who could also have done that. Beilein was ours. For that we appreciate it.
The question is what can we do go forward? Some coaches are good at getting you a base, some guys take you to the summit. Is Beilein the former or latter? If not the latter are you content with "this" for another 5-6 years. If you want more then you need to thank him and look for one of those other guys who can take the next step - cognizant you can f*** up that hire as the football program did.
We wont be dirty with Beilein so the type of recruits we get are the nice guys who are undervalued and then try to find diamonds in the rough. Apparently Izzo sent out Dwayne Stephens to do the dirty work Coach K, Coach C and the like are happy to do themselves. We wont have such a guy on staff as long as Beilein is here.
What is sad is we were told after the big run 3 years ago it takes 2-3 years to really appreciate that in the recruiting cycle since its a longer time frame than football. Here we are those years later and we are just in the same phase of losing out on top guys and hoping guards ranked in the 80s are the next Trey Burke. And getting the same type of big men we have had for years on end save Mitch.
So in short - thank you Beilein for getting here and being a very great man. I dont see Manuel doing any changes for at least 2 years since he wont rock the boat so soon and guy just signed an extension. But yeah looking at this team next year is about the same as this year, and with the type of recruits we are getting 2017-2018 looks pretty mediocre as well. I guess Manuel has a decision at that point.
|1 day 4 hours ago||Well we had an unusual year||
Well we had an unusual year with the massive NJ influx. If they continue to take 5 of the top 10 out of NJ every year than it takes away from other places I agree. Not sure if that is going to be probable long term. So maybe you get 3 of the top 8 in NJ long term.
If we continue to get 3 of the top 20 out of CA each year that will limit what is available elsewhere. I hope that is repeatable in the next 3 years but I don't know.
So yeah if you are going to get 5 out of NJ a year, 3 out of MI, and 3 out of CA that limits where else you will go. Not sure that is going to be a set in stone thing.
I'd take away from some of these lower end FL recruits as one spot. We have the 103rd and 140th guy out of FL. (that is probably a 1 off thing due to Flanagan this year but I just speaking in general) In future, replace that type of kid with 2 elite kids (top 10) out of the MD/DC/VA area. Go get a Josh King from IL. Get 1 of the top 10 kids out of OH eventually as OSU now does it annually in MI - its not a Michael Jordan thing - its Damon Webb, Weber, etc.
Even within FL its just a matter of moving up the food chain to higher level guys.
I think we'll do better in MI next year just because we didn't look like a friggin joke vs MSU like we did the prior 2 years.
Making inroads in NC is not for 1 year - its to establish the brand down there just like we are trying to do in AL, FL, TX. It's a comment for the long term - NC had better talent this year than AL when you go 1 thru 15. OSU is down there competing with Clemson and FSU (so is Stanford) - UM can be too.
Obviously there is no pattern from year to year that is symmetric because what kids fit you and what kids are interested in you are different.
|1 day 5 hours ago||I am thinking about doing a||
I am thinking about doing a OSU v Bama v UM comparison just for kicks and giggles as the first is the roadblock we need to get thru in the conf and the second is the ultimate standard in CFB today.
OSU's top 150 guys came from this distribution:
To your point though it's a bit misleading. For example, WR Binjimen Victor is the 99th ranked player in the country but only the 17th best in FL. That's almost identical to say Crawford for UM who is 119th overall but 17th in CA.
This is why I stated we dont need to get in the top 10 kids in FL (or TX) but we need to do better in the 15th thru 30th bracket which would still be top 150-200 kids.
|1 day 20 hours ago||But Brian didnt wax poetic||
But Brian didnt wax poetic for 30 minutes of a podcast about Walker so Hudson must be better. With skills no one has seen on the team.
|1 day 20 hours ago||Lets slow our roll on||
Lets slow our roll on adjectives.
Rashan Gary is a phenomenal athlete - so is Jabrill Peppers. So is Chesson. Hudson runs a verified 4.61. @ 205 lbs. Gary apparently runs 4.74.
Guy has a great nose for the ball and is a 'football player' - if he had the athleticism of some other guys he'd probably be a high 4 instead of a high 3*.
|1 day 20 hours ago||That won't happen IMO based||
That won't happen IMO based on Ty Kinnel. They were happy to take off his redshirt to basically play special teams and get Kinnel prepped for 2016 as a backup safety or competing for starting job.
I expect them to do the same with any guys who will be serious contendors for 2017 starting jobs. Hudson is a projected starting safety at this point in 2017 just because no one is left on the roster at the position outside Kinnel who is older. And if he is "crazy athletic" he is a good guy to put on special teams and if he gets hurt you dont risk a starting guy in 2016.
He is also at this point - or Mitchell - your 4th safety. Your 4th safety doesn't redshirt. One injury away from being "next man up".
I don't think people are grasping how thin the S position is right now and next year.
|1 day 20 hours ago||Amen. I am all aboard the||
Amen. I am all aboard the Hudson hype train but having an OP asking about a guys skill set ....who has yet to make a single observable carry at the college level is the typical cart before horse. From what everyone who follows this stuff says he played at a mediocre level of competition in HS so he will be facing a very different animal in HS - its like Gentry making the move up out of New Mexico HS scene.
Let's see his skill set in college actually running a football before theorizing. If he turns into Dalvin Cook or Nick Chubb - that's cool, but we have zero data at this point other than him running by a bunch of guys who wont play college football.
|1 day 20 hours ago||Due to needs I cannot see||
Due to needs I cannot see Hudson doing anything outside of S or the hybrid role of Peppers the next few years. Maybe when we build up reserves of safeties in a few years we can have him compete seriously at RB if that suits him but there is a thing such as team needs. The same reason you can ask "do we have a guy with the skills of Peppers at RB?" but then you look at our defense and see we need him there.
Right now your starting safeties in 2017 are Ty Kinnel* and (crickets chirping) .....
Your options are Hudson, Ahmir Mitchell, or Brad Hawkins - the latter 2 known more as WRs. All 4 of those are needed just to build a 2 deep and with the normal "guys dont pan out" we can only expect 3 of those 4 to work out in the end. Then you hope none of those guys suffer a serious injury in 2017 or you are playing a true freshman safety. At a position you don't love youth because 1 mistake = 58 yd touchdown pass.
*Unless you believe Peppers is turning down a first round grade to come and play school again.
So unless Hudson is Reggie Bush he needs to be on D. Just like Peppers does.
It sort of goes to the "drop off effect" - Hudson needs to not only be better but a significant bit better than a horde of scholarship RBs to make the cost-benefit analysis make any sense. If he is 5% better than our 2nd best RB it doesn't matter, we need him on D.
|2 days 2 hours ago||This seems quite different||
This seems quite different than Hoke apologizing at every turn...
|2 days 5 hours ago||Setting over under at 5 on #||
Setting over under at 5 on # of recruits we land on offense who are not on this list because #Harbaugh.
Will also be interesting to see which of current commits make it thru Hunger Games to indeed sign in Feb 17.
|2 days 7 hours ago||You still have Brandon Watson||
You still have Brandon Watson as a CB candidate and I guess if Freddy Canteen is still on the team at that time he could be another one. Obviously we wanted Antwaine Richardson so that was one miss we have to monitor - some good size even if lower rated.
Safety actually scares me more because right now with Cole jettisoned its Ty Kinnel and .... 2016 guys. Even this year safety scares me - people are overlooking the loss of Wilson and the fact injuries happen. One injury to safety and you probably are talking Ty Kinnel and Hill/Thomas. 2 injuries and it could be Ty Kinnel and Hudson. I mean we lack depth badly there. Young safeties are usually not ideal as one mental error and you have a TD given up.
Same issue with DT in 2017. I assume Gary goes inside in 2017 and we have 3 but Pallante might be a FB or a "break in case of fire" type option and you want your DTs to have some age on them if they are not Gary or McDowell level. But 1 injury to Mone, Hurst, or Gary and you are rolling out RS FR Dwumfour or true freshman in 2017.
2017 is going to be a year I just chalk up to development and double digit wins to me would be a bonus. Then 2018 hopefully we push for a playoff spot again. But we have to make hay in 2016 - and where the injuries hit are very very important. We actually had most of injuries in 2015 exactly where we had depth - RB and DL. So that was fortunate until we had like 3 DL injuries piled up.
Yeah some guy has been warning about the young defense since 13 months ago ;)
|2 days 7 hours ago||So this opens up a night game||
So this opens up a night game vs our top rival Illinois to open the season down the road circa 2020, 2021?
|2 days 7 hours ago||I wouldn't want to place my||
I wouldn't want to place my helmet 6 inches in front of that
Proud of myself from refraining posting the litany of jokes that remark elicited in my head.
|2 days 7 hours ago||My thought too. One of the||
My thought too. One of the few albums I can listen end to end. (for those guys under 30 "albums" are what we used to buy when you didnt buy songs individually on mp3)
Also never listen to "Black" around sharp objects - incredible song but damn.
|2 days 20 hours ago||Yeah I don't think you have||
Yeah I don't think you have too much to worry about - I looked at your class about a month ago and it's pretty ridiculous already. If it's a "small class" of say 20 you already are half full, and you have the #3 and #12 players in the country already locked down and then another 3 of the top 100. I mean 5 of the top 100 before 2017 recruiting even gets serious... that's pretty ridiculous. 2 of those from OH of course incl Josh Myers.
The only guy of your 10 that is not in the top 250 nationally is a kicker. I think you guys will be ok.
/plays sad violin song
p.s. did your QB really commit in 2013? That's boggling for a 2017 player.
|2 days 22 hours ago||Webb will. /softball||
|2 days 22 hours ago||Oh we have plenty more offers||
Oh we have plenty more offers out to OH kids. This list just culls it down to guys the 247 staff thinks have a reciprocal interest of some sort - even modest - to UM.
For me it is sort of sad growing up in an era we got Desmond Woodson et al from OH to see it so barren. Even ND got 2 of their top 8 last year. And with Urban coming up here and taking 1-2 of MI's top 5 almost annually now I'd like to return the damn favor.
We just have some mindshare to change in OH - every kid who is 16-17 know only knows massive success for OSU and UM basically being Minnesota since 2007 other than 2011. That is their whole childhood and teenage years.
I think it was smart not to focus too much on OH for the 2016 kids since these relationships are often 2 years in the making and we were way behind but 2017 forward is time to start making inroads again.
|2 days 22 hours ago||Yes please do that. I am||
Yes please do that.
I am just a vessel - this info is from 247 so they determine who goes on this list as a "potential interest".