I hate Florida and I hate Duke.
This week's Thursday Recruitin' discusses Jordan Payton's upcoming decision (again), big news coming from both Josh Garnett and Zach Banner, the next great Michigan nickname, several new 2013 offers, and BREAKING Mitch McGary news. Usual request: Please let me know if you have any comments, criticism, suggestions, etc.—as always, I'll be reading the comments, and you can also reach me on Twitter or via email, where I'll also encourage you to send any recruiting articles of interest that you think I should include for the next week's edition.
With the addition of Jeremy Clark to the 2012 class (more on that later), Michigan now has 23 commitments in the current class and likely five spots to fill—probably with two receivers, and offensive lineman, a running back, and perhaps a defensive back. How will they round out the class? I guess this is a good place to start:
That's four-star CA wideout Jordan Payton, of course, who decided—after visiting Notre Dame for the USC game last weekend—to push back his planned announcement from Tuesday to some time in the next two weeks. After the visit to South Bend, Payton claims that Michigan and Notre Dame are "tied" for the lead in his recruitment ($, info in header) after he had maintained that Michigan was his clear leader heading into the weekend. While this could be cause for a meltdown, I wouldn't get too worried—Payton is taking the time to gather his thoughts after a big visit, and I still think Michigan is in great position to land him whenever he decides to make his choice.
In more encouraging news, Puyallup (WA) OL Josh Garnett has set one official visit, and, well, you see where this is going [emphasis mine]...
"I'm going to Michigan on Nov. 19 when they play Nebraska," Garnett said. "I'm also going to visit Miami at some point also. I'm thinking pretty seriously about visiting Oklahoma too."
One school is showing Garnett more attention than the others.
"Cal is recruiting me the hardest by far," he said. "Coach (Tosh) Lupoi is the lead recruiter but all of their coaches are in contact with me. They are definitely showing me a lot of love."
Garnett is working down his list of 11 programs but said he has no favorites at this time among the group. Stanford, Oregon, Washington, Auburn and Notre Dame are a few other programs on the list.
While this by no means indicates that Michigan is his leader (one look at the quote about Cal should dispel that notion), Garnett coming to Ann Arbor is certainly a good sign, and anything can happen once a recruit gets on campus. [Morning edit: Of course, just before I go to sleep last night a new Banner article pops up on Scout in which he says he "may" make it to Ann Arbor for the Nebraska game ($), so we'll have to wait and see if this one really happens. Encouraging news is slightly less encouraging, but still, I think, encouraging.]
Meanwhile, Garnett's fellow blue-chip Washingtonian lineman, Zach Banner, has been the center of attention this past week, and he named his top five schools ($, video embedded below) before heading to Notre Dame for an official visit:
For those who don't feel like clicking on the video, Michigan made his final five along with Notre Dame, Oklahoma, USC, and Washington. If you head over to Oklahoma's Rivals site, you'll see (at the moment I'm writing this, at least) a big fat headline proclaiming "Sooners On Top" linking to an article that claims Oklahoma leads for Banner ($, info in header), with extensive quotes from the recruit about how well his visit went. While I usually don't blockquote from premium articles, there's been genuine debate about how to interpret this quote, which comes off as a bit of a leading question from the interviewer but also seems to point to Oklahoma leading:
So is it fair to say that Oklahoma is currently the leader and Washington and USC will have to show him something that surpasses what he saw at Oklahoma?
"Yeah," he said plainly. "All five of them are going to be completely involved but I'm still taking my USC and (Washington) visits but if you were going to ask me who I'd bet on, Oklahoma has a good chance."
Interpret that how you will, but obviously Michigan is still in it, though they might have some ground to cover. Just as notable, IMO, is Banner saying he'll announce his decision date (note: not make his actual decision, just to be abundantly clear) this Saturday, at his Army All-American ceremony.
There are other options on the offensive line, as well. TomVH caught up with Jordan Diamond, and read his article ($) and check out the video interview (free) over at WolverineNation. Michigan is still among the schools Diamond is interested in, and he's been in contact with former Chicago Simeon teammate and current Wolverine Chris Bryant, but he says he has "no favorites" at this time and will not make a decision until signing day. After taking in the ND-USC game last weekend (along with every other top prospect on the planet, it seems), Diamond won't be making any other visits until after his season is over.
In related news, four-star OL and recent offeree Alex Kozan just picked up an offer from Ohio State ($, info in header). Michigan and OSU join a top group of Arkansas, Oklahoma State, LSU, Oregon, Colorado, Iowa, and Illinois, but Kozan is looking to pare that list of nine down to three or four in the near future.
Also, five-star OL/DE Arik Armstead has indeed opened up his recruitment, but 247's J.C. Shurburtt says this is likely a battle between Cal and USC, and with no mention of Michigan they're a fringe contender at best. Don't hold your breath for this one.
For more on wide receiver recruiting, updates on current commits, 2013 news, and MITCH MCGARY'S FINAL THREE AND IMPENDING DECISION (*cough*), hit the jump.
Whether or not Payton commits, Michigan will need to land at least one more wide receiver, and Tim Sullivan breaks down the candidates—Amara Darboh, Monty Madaris, Darius Powe, and Jehu Chesson—over at the Free Press. Here's his evaluation of Madaris, who I think is the most likely receiver to end up at Michigan after Payton and Darboh:
Like Darboh and Payton, Madaris has good size at 6-2 and 200. He also has very good speed and the quickness to play the slot -- a skill set that is rare for prospects as tall as he. The questions on Madaris primarily revolve around his polish and his hands. If he can improve his concentration to make all the catches that he should, and improve his route running, he could be an underrated prospect at just three stars.
I haven't had the opportunity to see Madaris in person, but he's certainly a solid prospect if Payton ends up in South Bend or Darboh decides to go elsewhere. Finally, TomVH notes that Michigan is still very much in the mix for Chesson ($, info in header), with coach Jeff Hecklinski visiting his school during the bye week. He's considering an official visit for either the Nebraska or Ohio State game.
To round out news on uncommitted seniors, top-ranked quarterback Gunner Kiel did open up his recruitment, and it appears Michigan is still pursuing him, though Notre Dame seems to be the favorite here.
In case you missed the news, this happened, which is why Michigan is now up to 23 commits for the 2012 class:
Cornerback Jeremy Clark, who committed to Michigan over the summer as a greyshirt, will now join the team next fall as part of the 2012-13 recruiting class.
Clark had been slated to become a Wolverine starting with the 2013-14 class.
“They sent their coach down to watch practice last week and they were so impressed with him and our team,” Weaver said. “They wanted to get him on campus right away.”
For the record, Clark is being recruited as a safety. TomVH tweeted out updated season stats for him, and you can see why the coaches probably liked his film so much: Clark has (unofficially) 53 tackles, 2 interceptions, 3 return TD's, and 5 defensive TD's this season. I'm glad Michigan decided it was worth the scholarship for this class to make sure Clark—who was getting interest from other BCS schools—made it in as part of this class.
Meanwhile, Kyle Kalis was this week's Recruit of the Week on RivalsHigh, and while there's nothing particularly groundbreaking in this video, it's always fun to watch Kalis crush people while experts discuss how he's pretty much already an NFL lineman:
Kalis isn't the only recruit being lauded this week, as both Royce Jenkins-Stone and Mario Ojemidia were named as finalists for the 2011 High School Butkus Award, honoring the nation's best linebacker. Only 15 players from around the country made the final cut, so it's pretty remarkable that Michigan landed two commits on that list—congratulations are in order for RJS and Mario.
Sam Webb has a more extensive (and free) article on Kaleb Ringer's decision to sit out the rest of the season than the quotes I got from him and posted on the message board, so here's the key quote in case you missed it:
Unfortunately the injury bug hit him again before his fifth contest, this time in the form of a sprained MCL. His absence from the lineup over the last few weeks fueled a recent rumor that he had been kicked off of his team. He put that erroneous chatter to rest this morning after completing the ACT.
“I’m not kicked off the team,” Ringer said matter-of-factly. “I sat out of one game (a few weeks ago) and then went to the doctor and got an MRI. I found out I had a sprained knee. Basically the doctor, the coaches, and my family all just decided that I was going to sit out the rest of the season because at the time it happened we were 2-5. We weren’t competing for a conference championship, we weren’t competing for a trip to the playoffs, and we only had three games left."
“There’s been a lot rumors going around because I’m missing games, but I’m on the sideline. We lost last night so now we’re 3-6. We’ve got one more game, and I’ll be on the sideline.”
MLive's Kyle Warber has a feature on 2013 commit Dymonte Thomas, who has a pretty great nickname (though the formula should be familiar to Michigan fans):
Thomas is a very compact 5-foot-11, 167 pounds, but plays bigger, garnering the nickname "D-Train" from his teammates. However, there is a good chance the "D-Train" will be even larger by his senior year -- he notes that both his father and uncle are 6-foot-3, and he has room to grow. Thomas hopes with a little more size, he can contribute at other positions for Michigan.
"If I got a bit taller I would love to play linebacker," Thomas admitted. "I like playing back there because they make the most tackles, and I love making tackles."
Marlington head coach Ed Miley also thinks Thomas could play multiple positions by the time he gets to college.
"The thing about Dymonte is that he has two more seasons of high school left," Miley told Scout.com. "If he keeps on going the way he has so far, he could end up as both the leading rusher and tackler in Stark County history. Dymonte does great in the classroom and is very popular with his teammates. I see him as a safety at the next level, but he could do about anything really. He is a very physical player and a leader on this team."
Also, the prospect of Thomas growing a couple inches should be very frightening to future opponents.
Michigan sent out several new offers this week. Wheaton (IL) St. Francis OL Kyle Bosch ($, info in header), Lemont (IL) OL Ethan Pocic, Youngstown (OH) Fitch OL/DE Billy Price, and Hylton (MD) linebacker E.J. Levenberry all received scholarship offers this past week, and all are players who seem ticketed for at least four-star status. The coaching staff put in some major work during the bye week on the recruiting trail, and a lot of it was directed towards making deeper connections with rising juniors.
Quickly: Steve Wiltfong profiles Laquon Treadwell—who recently picked up a Notre Dame offer—in a free article for 247, TomVH profiles Grand Blanc DE Luke MacLean ($), and Tom also gives an update on Murrietta (CA) safety Su'a Cravens, who has been hearing from Michigan lately ($, info in header)—wouldn't be surprised to see an offer coming soon for Cravens, who has already been offered by Stanford, USC, Oklahoma, and Notre Dame, among several other schools.
McGary updated his ESPN recruiting blog this morning with some very big news [emphasis mine]:
I’m planning to make my commitment next week sometime too.
I can honestly say that right now I don’t know where I’m going so anything you read that says I do isn’t true. I already talked to my man Jason Jordan from ESPNHS and let him know that I want to do another blog before I make my announcement just to get all of my thoughts out and clear my mind so I can make the best decision possible.
At this point, I’m focusing on Florida, Duke and Michigan.
Um, buckle up (yes, I have been waiting to say that for the last, oh, two months). This one could get interesting.
I hate Florida and I hate Duke.
Using your crystal ball, do we have a top 5 recruiting class when all is said and done?
I think so—if Michigan rounds out the class with four four-stars and a three-star—which could even be conservative at this point—they should certainly finish with a top five class. I'm guessing we see something like that, though I doubt M holds on to the top spot in the rankings on the sites where they currently hold that distinction, not with so much of the class already committed.
transposes Banner where it should read Garnett. Let's just take them both to erase all confusion.
Nice catch. Also, nice solution.
that interacting with recruits through social media is both insanely creepy and potentially a recruiting violation.
I don't think its a violation unless someone works for the university. As far as being creepy . . . well, that's like your opinion man.
NCAA rules do not allow comments about possible recruits on an institution’s social media page or a page belonging to someone affiliated with the institution.
Twitter has also become a popular recruiting tool in college athletics. Tweeting is permissible as long as coaches are not using it to contact individual prospective student-athletes and are abiding by the standard recruiting rules such as not discussing specific recruits or contacting them when it is not permissible.
as not a recruiting violation but you really think Michigan is going to get in trouble for a random fan talking of Michigan on the internet? It really is funny how paranoid this board is.
To me it's like betting over whether Barbara Walters or Rosie O'Donnel would win an oatmeal wrestling contest. We all lose for even having to think about it.
This should be a contest we win easily. We have MGoBlog to spread the word, and most of ND's fanbase it too old to use a computer.
Is he planning an official visit to Ann Arbor?
and the expectation is that he'll probably commit after that visit.
Yeah, he should be here for the Ohio State game. A post-visit commitment is very much a possibility.
Kyle Kalis' helmet looks about four sizes too small, and defensive linemen are paying for the equipment manager's oversight.
I agree. I love his highlights though in the video of him just mauling the defense.
Swear to god, I watched the clip just to make sure that wasn't a scene from some Chris Farley movie where they put the kiddie helmet on the huge grown man.
too much about where the class ends up. Look at Florida, I recall them having a couple monster classes and it isn't quite panning out all that well. It's crazy what happens to your team if you don't have a good QB/fantastic defense.
But look at Florida for the 6 years before that. And look at LSU, Alabama, Ohio State for the last 5 years, USC for most of the last decade, Oklahoma for the last decade, Texas for like the last 30 years, etc.
The teams consistently contending for national championships are also the teams consistently bringing in highly ranked recruiting classes.
Let's say that we don't end up with any of the OL recruits mentioned here (which seems very possible / likely). Given the quality of the kids we're bringing in, part of me thinks that we're better off keeping it to five this year, since this would enable us to sell 2013 O-linemen on a relatively open depth chart with opportunities for early playing time. With a seemingly deep supply of elite 2013 linemen in the Midwest, that could pay off in the long run.
Personally, I'd still love to see that spot - or another spot - go to a quarterback, even if he's a more middling 3-star type.
If we don't get a 6th OL commit - what about Wormley at OT? A few people have mentioned that he'd be a better fit on OL than DL, and the recent reports of his height is 6'6" or 6'7" giving him an ideal OT body type. He has huge hands, long arms, quick feet and size.
Since the other DL guys we're bringing in such as Strobel, Godin, Pipkins and Ojemudia sound like they're all exceeding expectations, Wormley might be a better fit and a bigger need on the OL.
Depends who pans out. The need on both sides of the line is severe. If all the OL pan out the DL guys will stay on D. If all the DL guys pan out, then you can talk about moving to offense. Godin would be another potential candidate if that was the case.
The problem is, the longer you wait, the less chance the guy catches on at his new spot. Move Wormley immediately, let him learn the spot, and work Godin, Pipkins and Strobel into the rotation right off the bat. That way, even if Brown moves to TE, we still have a solid freshman at each DL spot in addition to the guys who will be around a couple more years (Brink, Black, Q, Ash, Clark, Heitzman, etc.). That doesn't make for a crazy DL in 2012, but it wasn't going to be with Wormley either. But 2013 would have plenty of depth and the OL would be helped out a lot.
This all hinges on us not getting a sixth OL commit, which could very well still happen.
It also hinges on whether or not Wormley has interest in playing OL. I haven't heard one way or the other.
OTOH there is no doubt about Dymonte Thomas and what side of the ball he prefers. I love it, here's hoping he sprouts to 6'5'' and keeps his 40 time the same.
that Godin, Pipkins, AND Strobel are all in next year's rotation. I won't guess which isn't ready/qualified/enrolled/eligible/healthy, but it's probable that at least one isn't.
2013 is a long way off for projecting positional depth. Think of how things looked 2 years ago, or 2 years before that - very different than how it turned out.
Assuming every guy pans out is foolish. I think/hope they take at least one more lineman.
I'm not assuming every guys pans out in that they'll be stars, but there are guys you can more easily predict will be able to go in there and play, and at the very least Strobel and Pipkins are those guys. Godin, like Strobel, already has D1 size, plays on a very good team against other very good talent and excels.
My point was more about Wormley's ability to play OL vs. DL, and the fact that we have other good DLs in this class and a greater need at OL only makes the case stronger. I'm not the only person (and certainly not the first) to say this. When Wormley was 6'4" 225, people were saying he's a college DE. Now that he's 6'6" or 6'7" and 270+ and not yet showing a true defensive line mindset, people are thinking his physical tools might make for a tremendous OT, and I agree.
Would Will Campbell be one of those guys who "you can more easily predict will be able to go in there and play"? Dann O'Neil? How about Tate Forcier? Cullen Christian? Justin Turner? Pearlie Graves? The list goes on...
I think some guys are safer than others but 'easily predict' is a huge stretch.
I'm not saying Wormley or Godin won't be better fits at OT, I'm just saying we already have a bunch of oL recruits and none of them are being mentioned for DL. The DL situation needs to be addressed before you start moving people. the incoming recruits (who haven't even signed LOIs yet) can't be considered sure-things.
No, I would not put Dann O'Niell or Will Campbell in that category. BWC was rated highly based on potential, not because people saw him play games against a high level of competition and thought he was a polished and college ready player. RJS is highly rated, but I don't think he's as ready to contribute as others. His ceiling might be higher though, which is reflected in his rankings.
Point is, some guys are ranked high because of their potential, and they might never reach it. But some guys don't have the same high ceiling, but can step in and contribute right away. I'm not saying one is better than the other either, just that they're different. I think Strobel and Pipkins are those kinds who can be contributors right away.
Excited about Pipkins and Strobel. Don't get me wrong, I like our recruits, especially those 2, but you can't count them as rotation players until they prove it. I know the prospect of Pipkins NOT being a ready-to-go player is kinda scary, but that doesn't make it impossible.
Recruiting rankings for OL are notoriously unreliable. They probably do a decent job identifiying star power and NFL potential (because those are often dependant on physical measurables), but in terms who will become a reliable college linemen, I'm not sure they mean much. (i.e. player's propensity to bust, transfer, flunk out or get hurt.) Overall, Michigan's success rate (under both Carr AND Rodriguez) was around 50-60% for linemen...so you're looking at probably 3 contributers from this class. Is that enough?
I think it isn't, in fact, I'd advocate for taking 7 OL to increase the liklihood that you get at least 4 productive players from this class. While you don't want to assume attrition for any individuals, you have to plan for it when you're talking about a sizeable group of players.
The need on the offensive line is dire. Not for next year, necessarily, but for 2013 and 2014. I don't think we can afford to take only five. If we take any number other than six, I would guess it to be seven.
I am not overly concerned with 2013 2014 because numbers wise we will be in better shape than we are this year. This season, with only 10 scholarship OL's could really have been catastrophic. We will be younger in 2013 than now, with more unknowns from this vantage point, but we will also be deeper and hopefully more talented.
This is a huge assumption. As is the talent. It is only a given if you assume no attrition.
Regardless, experience-wise we won't be. So you have to hope that 2012 guys are ready to play early. Even if they aren't total busts, not every guy is ready-to-go as a red-shirt freshman, even those that eventually turn into decent players.
Numbers wise, I don't think it is a huge assumption that we will have more than 10 scholarship players in 2013. We are losing two scholarship players this season and replacing them with 5 or 6 scholarship players. 2012 we lose 4 scholarship players and will probably replace them with at least 5 recruits
15*.2 attrition= 3
12 is about 20% greater than 10
Not claiming this is an ideal situation, but it is at least on par with this season and this season has been fine so far
Assumptions above that may not be true:
1. 11 recruits. If the coaches are fine with 5 in the class this year, I'd be surprised if they think they need to take 6 the following year. Usually you don't take big classes like that in bunches unless there is trouble because kids don't want to sit behind people who just got there. Furthermore, it will be hard to recruit a big class if the '12 guys are as good as everyone hopes.
2. 3 attrition. Seems low considering all the attrition we see in college these days, especially for incoming recruits. Plus, Lewan looks like a strong candidate for early NFL entry.
3. True freshman usually redshirt on OL. As emergency-only players, they don't count as functional depth. So, in 2010 you have 8 guys (The 5 starters, Schofield, Khoury, Mealer). In 2013 you have the 4 returning players (at most - Lewan, Schofield, Bryant, Miller), plus 5 or 6 recruits from the 2012 class. Given attrition of 2 or 3, you're right back to 8 guys.
4. Depth vs functional depth. Given that 13 of the 15 you assume have never played a down for Michigan, they are essentially recruits/unknowns. Historically these types of players are a 60/40 proposition to be quality players. So let's remove true freshman and take the 2011 and 2012 guys, all 7 of them, and assume historical consistency. Result: 4 serviceable players. [Note: This doesn't even account for how often RS Freshman aren't ready] Add that to Schofield and Lewan (who, again, might be a pro by then) and you have 6 non-freshman that can actually play...2 fewer than we have now.
So yes, there will probably be more scholarship OL on the roster in 2013, technically, especially if any of the 'preferred' walk-ons get put on scholarship. But with Schofield being the only proven commodity that looks like a lock to stick around...assuming we'll have more depth in '13 is a leap.
I guess we will see in 2013
I can't see how the '12 class will adversly affect the '13 class as you suggest. We won't see most of these guys on the field next season and then probably only sparingly, with the possible exception of Kalis. If Kalis is really so good as to play well as a true freshman, he probably won't be around for 4 years anyway.
Furthermore, it will be hard to recruit a big class if the '12 guys are as good as everyone hopes.
While D-Train works, how could it be anything other than Dynamite? I thought his name was Dynamite up until a couple weeks ago, haha. Hell, selling Dynamite jerseys would be a good start.
Zach Banner looks 9 feet tall!!!
I want to get this down somewhere: Tosh Lupoi is Trooper Taylor 2.0 and I don't mean that in a complimentary way.
Everything I read about him says shady. Whether it's his connections with Will Lyles-type characters, his dealings with families of former recruits, his unprecedented success at recruiting Cal...
Maybe I'm wrong, maybe he's a great young recruiter that connects with teenagers. But it looks and smells dirty. There's a reason every single recruiting service was surprised by his 'abilities' the past couple years.
Any news on Yuri Wright?
He's frequently mentioned by people on the board as someone likely to end up in this class, yet, I never see anything substantial that lends credence to such optimism.
If there's anything out there, it'd be cool if you could include an update on him next week.
Ok not sure if I have ever seen this question asked here but... Can we put athletes who are eligible on academic scholarship so it does not count towards our athletic scholarship cap thus increasing the number of athletes we can take this year and overall? We can just say they are "walk-ons." just think, a 35 player class this year with no one being told sorry no scholy for you. Oh I am drooling at the thought.