spoiler alert: i linked this
I kinda wish people would actually get enraged about this. But this will probably be the response from other media outlets. It's not like they were caught streching for too long.
I think the players deserve the money, but I don't like it when schools allow this kind of behavior and use it to gain an unfair recruiting advantage.
I wish I could get excited
They make pills for that
Wow, seems pretty thorough. I suppose we wait and see for the next 5 years while the NCAA tries to not trip over itself.
Surely this will attract as much attention as PracticeGate. Maybe Michael Rosenberg should do an exposé to burnish his already sterling credentials.
Pandora's box is a few feet lower. Not that the NCAA would do anything about it, but at least then people would know what they already assume.
By Pandora's box, are you referring to the Ok. St. hostesses?
...his next glowing write-up about Calipari and UK, because he's STILL "always selling"
And amateur comedian. Two jobs he does a terrible job at while embarrasing the profession he's currently in.
Something might actually happen.
They have banking statements for dozens of Miami football players, and here we are two years later. It is not good business for the NCAA to come down hard on programs, it does nothing for them financially. The ONLY reason PSU got hammered, is because what they did reached the everyday media, and the NCAA had no choice.
Well, lets be honest: Penn State got hammered because the crimes committed there were several orders of magnitude more atrocious and abhorrent than paying players. The visceral reaction prompted by Sandusky's actions forced the NCAA to come down hard, lest it risk losing whatever shred of credibility onto which it still clutched.
but hey were criminal and not under the perview of the NCAA (not saying PSU shouldn't have been punished)
oh purview is irrelevant.
the ncaa slammed penn state hard because it was able to do so without backlash. because seriously, who the fuck is gonna call the ncaa on beating up on child rapists? you can't fight against it without looking like an enabler for pedofiles. the ncaa had a carte blanche to 'make an example' out of penn state, and took full advantage. too bad it hasn't had the desired deterrant effect.
This is the first thing that came to mind:
USC has to be pissed at how easy the NCAA has gone on everybody, sans PSU, since they were punished.
Compared to what some of these other schools (Ohio, Oregon, Miami) have gotten, USC's punishment seems like the death penalty.
Nothing to see here. Especially if it consists of Alabama. ~ NCAA
Whatever man, I'm sick of these stories that lead to nothing happening
the SEC cheats?????????NO WAY!
I'm starting to wonder if college athletes, and SEC football players in particular, have ever received extra benefits, you guys.
Holy shit!!! The NCAA is gonna totally pull out the death penalties for this one!
Well, at least we have proof that the SEC is trying, albeit only a tiny smattering of proof. I'll start worrying when Auburn gets the hammer over Cam and Miami gets the death penalty. Oh wait, I'll never have to worry.
If Yahoo Sports can get this much detailed info, how the heck does the NCAA have such problems digging into things?
Yahoo sports is actually trying and not just dragging their feet and pretending to investigate like the NCAA.
Like three people work for the NCAA, and they all have IQs in the mid 90s.
The reporting here stands in stark contrast to the SI piece, which has jack for proof.
Not that anything will happen, obviously.
Yeah, by this point in time it's clear Charles Robinson doesn't screw around. If you see him on campus, run and hide.
that you keep waiting to hear the thud of a collapse; each new revelation sounds like it SHOULD BE the straw that broke the camel's back.
The only POSSIBLE stance for the NCAA--as an institution that has long lost any credibility itself, desperately trying to survive in a climate of near-universal scandal-- at this stage may be to ignore all of it.
Since the American people are just as cynical as the major football programs, that should work out fine.
"A defensive end for the Crimson Tide from 2007-10, Davis acted as a "concierge" between budding NFL draft picks, agents and financial advisers following his college career, five sources told Yahoo Sports."
Concierge, interior decorator, travel agent, insurance salesman and underwriter, guy who transfers money to your checking account in run down convenience stores...you can't say that Luther Davis does not run a diversified business.
How I wish that I had confidence that something would happen with this goodly stash of information...
SC got hammered for this exact same thing taking place with Reggie Bush (which I think was total bullshit), but where do you draw the line and what do you want to see done? Michigan had a player on its last national title team busted for this exact same sort of thing (wannabe agent gives money to college kid, not because of his school choice but because he wants to get money out of the kid later on).
To me, punishing schools/programs for this sort of thing is ridiculously arbitrary (only the cases that get investigated/publicized, or where there is an axe to grind like in the Bush case, lead to sanctions). And the people paying the price are potentially guilty of zero wrongdoing.
Better policing of agents and/or letting kids accept some sort of compensation from outside the university structure seem like better solutions than punishing football programs across an entire conference because some dickhead wanted to make money of kids who are better than him at football and may go pro.
I mean Reggie's folks lived all of 2 hrs away from L.A., and you know damn well the coach knew where he was living while playing for him, and it wasn't in the slums near campus. I have no problem with much of what you are saying, especially when no member of the staff should reasonably believe illegal benefits are being doled out, and above all, participating in same, i.e., the alleged Okie St., incidents. What Reggie and family did was tantamount to that genius Pryor pulling up in another new car to see what the hoopla was about the supposed illegal benefits going on in Columbus. ^If booster, coaching staff or any representative of school has no ties, and above all, knowledge of these activities, then you are correct; nothing should be done to that particular school. If, on the other hand, like Fisher, where even former AD Don Canham could set in the seats and remark, "He (Fisher) is allowing people who have no ties to this school far too much access to these kids," then by all means school should be sanctioned. I'm not against players receiving benefits and wish they'd begin allowing it. Reminds me too much of America prior to unions evening the score somewhat. But until such time as it becomes legal, anyone who is obligated to report wrongdoing and does not, then sorry, school's AD made a bad hire and proper vetting wasn't done. Now schools like OSU, imo, that hire someone with a known track record of working outside the system should get hit harder than those who believe they conducted full investigation and were satisfied that the likelihood of wrongdoing was minimal, which is all you can ask.
I was thinking the same thing about USC but SC didn't cooperate with the NCAA investigation and they had a coach or coaches involved in the Bush fiasco.
There seems to be a lot of evidence here so I'm sure some teams are going to take a hit but it won't be anything program altering.
Speaking of evidence the OK. state story seems to be a joke and never should have been published as is.
has Rosenberg tactics written all over it. Inferences, quotes out of context, unnamed sources, disgruntled former players on the record ...
So OSU has a choice: deny, parse, and obfuscate or go on an open kimono self investigation ...
The problem with Rosenberg wasn't his tactics. The problem is that he is an intellectually dishonest, arrogant piece of shit. His report wasn't factually incorrect, but he reported "violations" that weren't actually violations -- gray areas ("voluntary" workouts, etc etc) that are both legal and commonplace. Rosenberg's story didn't even acknowledge the concept of countable hours vs non-countable hours. His sources weren't lying.
This is different in that it would have to be entirely fabricated to not be a major case of LOIC.
Ya'll just a bunch of jealous Catholic and Jewish Yankees trying to get our conference in trouble. Just because ya'll can't beat the ESSSS EEEEE SEEEE, doesn't mean ya'll gotta go up and get your noses in other peoples purses!!!
ROW TIDE/WARRR EAGEL/HOTTIE-TOTTIE...
Sadly, this would qualify as a moderate and thoughtful response from the average SEC fan.
On a somewhat relate topic, BTN is about to play a Big Ten Elite episode about the 2002 Buckeye team. I'm sure it will be about their elite run of cheating...
Every time the NCAA hires a new chief enforcement officer (or whatever the position is called), he always vows to be extra-strict with violating programs. And then the next program under investigation gets a slap on the wrist. What is keeping them from actually following through on their promise?
The NCAA permanently lost all credibility when they allowed Auburn to buy Cam Newton and a National Title for 6-figures. After that, why does any team really try to play by the rules, other than because they want to do things the right way? .
Alabama State is gonna get hammered!
I'm so numb to all this kind of stuff -- it just furthers me thinking, it's time for a sea-change. Stop calling them student-athletes, just junk the mantra. Make them employees of the schools, let them get stipends, let them do their own thing on the side (autographs, speaking engagements, etc.), and -- srsly -- don't require them to attend classes, if they don't want to. Just drop the "student" thing. If a guy wants to get a degree, good for him, let him do it. If some booster wants to give them sham jobs or no-show jobs, or pay $1000 for a handshake, wtf, whatever. Who cares anymore -- it's so rampant, let's just admit, this is what goes on, and everyone compete on an 'equal' basis. It'll be like the NFL -- the rich will get the best players and win, and in a capitalist society, gee, that's what's supposed to happen.
And what will eventually come of this? Schools that want to compete by shelling out bucks, will end up creating (in fact or in structure) some kind of conference or division for the very top players (sort of the SEC + whomever wants to join them). Schools taht want to pretend academics are most important (Stanford, Vandy, NU, etc. -- even UM?) will maybe shy away from that "minor league" division, and compete ona lesser field. Schools that can't pay at all (Indiana State) will remain in an NCAA-like division. By choice.
Market economics should that this over, people (players) should make what they're worth -- an 18 yr old soccer player, or 18 yr old tennis player, or 18 yr old golfer, can do it, so why not football. Because the current system is leaking like the Titanic, and it's time to admit it doesn't work. And if it's so fraking important to Alabama and Auburn boosters to have the best minor league team in the country, well, let them -- why are we fighting for a system that rewards cheaters?
Tired of it.
Well, the problem with that approach is that universities are nonprofit entities, so they'd have a tough time justifying turning one of their branches into what is essentially a for-profit system.
The NFL, by the way, is nothing like a capitalistic system where the richest team wins. Otherwise the Redskins would have won 10 Super Bowls in the last decade. Nobody really wants that anyway. Sports are built on the idea that every team ought to have at least a reasonable shot at winning, not the richest. There's a reason everyone despises the Yankees. Baseball was killing itself with pure capitalism. To survive it had to de-capitalize, because nobody was going to the games in 2/3 of the cities.
I'd argue that what the NCAA needs to do is simply stop policing this stuff. Stipends, etc are not necessary. Just fire all of the compliance guys and erase all of the sections of the rulebook related to player benefits.
I live in SEC country, and the most common refrain tha I hear, even before this came out, is that everyone pays players and everyone cheats. Shoot, I even heard one Tennessee fan say the problem under Dooley was that they might not have been paying players, so they couldn't get the talent to compete (that plushis terrible coaching, of course). So my question is: what are the general thoughts of fellow Michigan fans regarding the likelihood of us cheating? I mean, have I just been drinking the koolaid in adamently defending Michigan's program as a clean one that does not cheat? They claim that I am being naive in my insisting that the culture at Michigan is different than in the SEC, and cheating would not be tolerated. However, I just wanted to make sure that I am not just a homer (by asking a bunch of other homers) in my refusal to believe that we pay our players.
My response would be 134 years and the only violation was for stretching to much.
There have been allegations.
CWood comes to mind.
Granted, I'm old, but I lived in Squad freshman year and interacted/partied with several players that had NFL careers...
They had lots of Michigan athletic clothing.
They had some pizza coupons and blimpy coupons.
If they were getting cash payments, they were cheap fu*kers because they kept coming over and eating our Gumby pizza and Touchdown 15 cent wings without pitching in most times. Also, they kept hanging out in our rooms to play Sega, Nintendo, and watch TV.
By no means were they rolling around in $
At the same time as Woodson, he actually got caught and had to sit out the first chunk of the 1998 season for taking money from a wannabe agent (the same stuff as is going on here, which to me is much different from SMU or the Miami/Ok.State allegations where the school itself and boosters are the ones providing benefits).
Woodson was tied to a super shady agent (who had loads of SEC clients as well, including Stephen Davis from Auburn/Redskins) that he signed with immediately after the Rose Bowl. He and others ended up taking the dude to court a few years later, since it turns out agents who will buy your signature while risking your college eligibility don't often have your best financial interests at heart.
Whenever I hear of these improprieties I picture Rick James grinding his muddy boots on the suede couch of the NCAA and laughing manically. Not sure why but its funny.
The distinguishing difference between this and Oklahoma State is that in OSU's case, at least one coach, and however many school employees (re: the grades and tutoring) were involved in the alleged violations.
Here, you have outside agents paying athletes, according to what's alleged, and there isn't evidence at this point that the school was directly involved or had the dreaded "lack of institutional control."
This is sure looking like some very dirty business is going to come out. It should be obvious that we are seeing a tiny part of the tip of a very ugly iceberg.
Tyler Bray - still screwing with UT even when he's no longer on the field.
But seriously, this will lead to absolutely nothing. Unless Nick Saban and Les Miles are on video giving bags of cash to players while hookers pleasure underage recruits, I'm doubting the NCAA even bats an eye. And yeah this is pretty graphic, but at this point the NCAA has shown itself to be one of the most spineless "oversight" organizations in America.
It'll be some minor, 1 game suspension-type stuff. Maybe you'll see a scholarship reduction of 1 or 2 for a year and some lower-level admin or coach will get canned. But I'm not suspecting we'll see any widespread sanction like we saw with PSU or even OSU.
The NCAA isn't spineless, they don't have subpoena power. This is the reason Manziel got .5 game punishment.
Everyone says they don't have subpeona power as if they have to bring sanctions before a court of law. Yes, some players and former associates don't want to talk; so be it. They can still put pressure on institutions to punish coaches and players, and what we saw with Manziel was as much the NCAA settling because they didn't have the resources or desire to truly dig that much deeper. The institutions punished can obviously appeal both internally as well as, I suspect, outside arbiters one federal frounds like anti-trust, but just because people aren't willing to talk doesn't mean the NCAA can't punish people based on evidence that would not meet proper evidentiary thresholds in a court of law.
It's a shame they don't simply have a policy that says if you don't speak, we'll just believe everything we hear. But I doubt the heavyweight member schools would sign off on such a policy.
When all of the Div 1 (yeah, I still call it D1) schools are being investigated at the same time, I guess the NCAA will finally change what they are doing. Until then, I'm watching D3 football, there's no cheating...wait, what's that? Mount Union. Wisconsin Whitewater. Crap. Well, then I'm watching D2 football from now on, wait, what's that? Youngstown State? Really. Crap. I'm watching high school footall from now on, they certainly wouldn't cheat in high school where they teach integrity, honor...what? Seriously? There too? Crap.
Meanwhile at the NCAA:
Cotton, I'm shocked.
And that's fine. The NCAA always looks foolish when it tries to retroactively strip championships – in this case, Alabama's. D.J. Fluker won championships at Alabama the previous two seasons.
It's(sic) looks even worse when it argues that something horrible occurred if a kid such as D.J. Fluker, who grew up poor even before Hurricane Katrina left him homeless and sleeping in a car with four others, actually accepted some of the money that just about everyone was willing to throw at him because they've defined his worth as far greater than just tuition, room and board.
It starts to have a different feel when you see that. I don't know the whole story, so if that's made up well color me fooled.
So, was it against the rules what he did? Sure. Is it morally right that these guys can be homeless while the people making money of them are living like kings and queens, I'm not so sure. Would most of us do the same thing in the same situation? I don't know. I'm lucky enough to never have faced anything like this. But I would hazard a guess that we would be accepting that cash immediately.
...ND 2012 National Champs