what's the point of this question? he's only slightly more likely to return than bo.
Would you ever support Lloyd's return as Michigan's Head Coach?
Would you ever support Bill Clinton's return as the U.S. American's President of the U.S.A.?
Lloyd's return is not proscribed by the Constitution.
It is, however, proscribed by a shred common sense.
I wasn't drawing that correlation, simply inferring that the likelihood of repealing that amendment was the same as the likelihood of Carr gaining the HC position at Michigan again.
This argument is asking us whether or not we support something that will never happen.
I think all of my interns would enthusiastically say yes.
For now I think i'll just continue partying with the World Cup team. We'll talk about my comeback later.
all of the M coaches, but you Sir are ridiculous.
I doubt he would take inspiration from Paterno. JoePa's health continues to get worse every year he coaches.
And Llyod wouldnt want to come back. He's got the good life right now.
Assuming that it happens soon, and there are other reasonable candidates available, I would not support Lloyd's return. The game is changing. We must move forward.
I stuck up for Lloyd for years when people were calling for his head, but I'm with Togaroga. He had an amazing run and did great things for the university, but his time has passed. The game was progressing beyond him before he even left (did he ever learn to defend against a running QB?), and it wouldn't be any better if he came back.
Agreed. Plus a major shift back to Lloydball automatically puts us back into another 2-3 year rebuilding mode. Even if Lloyd had some left in the tank, I doubt we'd want to use up 2-3 of those valuable years transitioning yet again.
We needed drastic change, we got the right coach for the job. We need to finish this out.
Some people will point to the bowl game vs. FLA and say we beat Tebow ( a running qb), but really all we did was outscore them in a shootout. Michigan played and entirely different gameplan than they ever did under Carr in that game and still squeaked it out. The era of spread offense and hurry up offense would be hard for him to beat. I loved what he's done for UM, but I think he couldn't make UM a power anymore.
I appreciate everything Lloyd did for this university and football program, but he needs to enjoy retirement. End of discussion.
Real T, you've pushed the offensive button.
Lloyd Carr was a friend of ours.
Show a legend some respect.
That's 5-7-4, therefore not a haiku
Reprehensible, but syllabically correct.
really, the fact that the haiku was so offensive makes me think we can assume he talks poorly and therefore only had 4 syllables.
I sometimes chuckle at these haikus, but this just makes them all look like a stupid forced meme. For shame, sir. For shame.
I accept it; Hopefully
We've all learned something
At least you came back
Others with less fortitude
Would not have done so
Wow, I guess you're right. In my mind "Idea" is I-dea but I can see why that's wrong. Bizarre... I mean who actually pronounces all three syllables when they say it?
But that still makes me an idiot :)
I mean, if it were pronounced with a diphthong, then I think you'd be correct in saying it's only a 2 syllable word. I think it sounds very strange when pronounced with only 2 though... are you saying it like "id-ya"? And do you have an accent of some kind, southern or something?
When I try to make it 2 syllables, there is way too much stress on the "i" and it sounds like EYE-dyuh, or EYE-dee (which is wrong, but I can see where one might drop the a)
Why would you want to jeopardize a solid career by rolling the dice on a successful return to coaching? Plus, it's hard to beat going out into the sunset on your team's shoulders. What if he came back and was forced to end his coaching career with a bowl loss or other not-so-feel-good ending?
Because he felt he no longer had the desire every single day to get up and do what needed to be done to be the coach. I do not know what would make him feel he still had it but as history shows after retiring from the game a return has never been great for any player/coach.
btw, coaches/players leaving in their prime for 1 yr and coming back is not what I am talking about.
So in a word, NO, cause I absolutely feel Lloyd would get a month into the job and remember why he retired in the 1st place.
It is my understanding that he only stuck it out as long as he did out of a sense of duty. There is no way this question makes any sense.
If the situation presented itself where there was a vacancy and Lloyd decided to step up and take it, I would support it 100%. I don't think anyone would question that he is qualified. And its hard for me to imagine a scenario where a better coach and/or fit would be available. What I wouldn't want (and I don't think the OP is implying this at all) is for RR to be fired with the intention of having Lloyd replace him. I think that would be foolish.
Benedict probably doesn't, but I bet JPII did on occasion, in his younger years.
Who then would run the Ypsilanti Illuminati?
I'm not so much offended by the question as disturbed by the fact that you decided to ask it.
The only way I could see Lloyd ever coming back was if it was a temporary interim job. Kinda like when Tom Osborne came back as Nebraska's coach in 07 after Callahan was fired and before Pelini was hired.
Or if RR starts this year 0-6 and gets fired in October and they need someone to step in to finish out the season and continue recruiting duties, etc.
But that ain't gonna happen.
First, Dr. Tom was coach only during a short period in the off-season during the Callhan-Pellini transition. It was more or less to provide athletic department oversight of the football program and to allow him to recruit per NCAA regulations.
If something was to happen between now and the end of this coming season that was to result in, hypothetically, the dismissal of Rich Rodriguez, I would absolutely support Lloyd stepping in as the interim coach.
And then I would hope that the coaching search than ensues would bring someone from within the family back home to coach. And by family I mean former player or member of a previous coaching staff.
It would such a Jay Leno move. No, he wouldn't do it . Despite the fact he hasn't shown RichRod an ounce of support or called off the the dogs still loyal to him.
The personal and the atmosphere at Michigan are now completely different in the program. To hire Lloyd back or somebody like him would not only sacrifice everything that's been worked at to modernize the last few years, but it would send us right back to the cellar doing so.
If Michigan has a coaching vacancy sometime 2-3 years down the road, we'll be getting someone who runs a similar offense to what we are now.
It appears we're entered the "ridiculous hypotheticals" portion of the off-season.
I take this as a positive sign, actually; that means we just need to get through the "how many wins does RR need to keep his job" threads and the "any word on [player name]'s progress in spring practice?" threads, and then we arrive at the actual season.
As to your question, though, I'd say that we can cross that bridge when we never, ever, ever, ever come to it.
Since the football team is responsible for its own balls during practice and the games, what if they hid a couple of small rocket motors in them? See, the center could kinda hide the ball and light it before handing back to the QB.... Of course, this would only work on passing plays, since if it were a running play, the RB's hands would get burned....
Besides who wants Debord back as OC?
John Cooper returns as the head coach at Ohio State first?
Is this a trick question?
My response is:
13 years, 122-40 record. 1 national title, 5 Big Ten titles. 1 Heisman Trophy winner. Tom Brady, Chad Henne, Braylon Edwards.
if the position were open, and he wanted it, of course I'd welcome him back.
Yes, he did some great things but you're sort of ignoring the fact that most of his success came early in his career. I love Lloyd, he'll always be my Michigan coach, but he left for a reason.
Is that you? Or an imposter?
Problem is, Carr is not the same coach he was in 1997, nor is the game the same. It's best for both parties that he remain retired.
I'm one of the fans that thinks Lloyd got too conservative in his old age and let the game pass him by. I thank him for his tenure and the way he represented the university, but as others have said, it's time to look toward the future of football.
His Capital One Bowl victory over Florida was almost bittersweet--we were huge underdogs and shocked the world with one of the biggest victories in Michigan history to send Lloyd out with a monumental win. On the other hand, it was clear that Lloyd had the "Balls to the Wall, Burn the Boats, Go Big or Go Home" mindset for his final game and look at what happened...we had one of the biggest wins of his career. What would have happened if he had that fearless mentality in '06 against OSU?
The Capital One Bowl reminded me of Lloyd in his younger, more successful days and it almost hurt to see that type of coaching in his farewell game.
I don't think Carr got more conservative as time went on. I think it's more the opposite. His 1995-97 offenses were extremely basic in design, almost never using more than two wide receivers, and our WRs ran pretty simplistic routes. In 1998 we started to move in a more sophisticated direction, and we developed a quick-strike passing game that - when we chose to utilise it - became very effective. IMO the problem was that Carr couldn't bring himself to wholeheartedly embrace this new direction, even though it was how we did most of our scoring. We usually only brought out the "scoring offense" when we fell behind. The Citrus Bowl was a rare case when we unleashed it from the outset. (There were a few other cases; 2005 Indiana, for some reason, was one.) Carr coached during a period of massive changes in college football and didn't evolve nearly as much as other successful coaches did.
And was the coach when I was in A2 . I don't want him back, I think we all forget how good of a coach he was but I do recall an opening game with a top 5 team he lost to a Team from Boone , NC.
Also this coaching change talk is just hurting Michigan everyday. If you don't support Rich Rod so be it. This has nothing to do with this post but if you're really a Michigan fan don't call him out or talk about other possible guys in the future that just hurts everyone. We need to stand as one, if Rich Rod fails ok we wish he luck and thank him for coaching Michigan. But I'm looking at the bigger picture and see us winning again and being a force under Rich.
We will all see come September when this team is far better then we have been "told" they are.
I'm not knocking your post just venting from how many post on every web site there is about who is the next guy is and how many of us keep putting our coach down.
Have Faith Wolverines
I would find it pretty ridiculous if Carr returned to coach at Michigan. I have nothing against the man. His time at Michigan was very good. But, time passes, people get older, they move on. I would be skeptical of any head coach hire that was Carr's age.
The season needs to start now! We are now scraping the bottom of the OT thread barrel. Excuse me while I hop in my DeLorean.
Michigan football is so OT.
I'm not calling you out as a troll or anything, but your whole setup is just way too anti-MSU. I mean, your name, your avatar, your signiture... I say settle a bit with the anti-Sparty campaign and focus on Michigan.
Also, this is not a reflection of your 10+ posts in the last 16 hours, and I haven't negged you, just saying that maybe the whole MSUcks type thing is a bit overbearing and could easily be interpreted as an overcompensation
Edit: I secretly hope I'm not a mini-mgoblog version of Samuel Mudd.
would be better.
Lloyd Carr is going to be 65 at the end of this month. Even a 2-year transition would put him at 67. Quite frankly, that's well past his prime. I've read somewhere that there is a significant drop in coaches' win percentage once they pass age 60. None of us want to see that.
Lloyd had his time. I'm not about to take anything away from that. But his time has passed, much like Yost, Crisler and Schembechler. It's time to move on.
Lloyd would not support Lloyd coming back to coach.
What about Les Miles...or Knute Rockne?
I can't see either of these two becoming Michigan's next football coach.
Really? Bobby Bowden and Joe Paterno have been dead for at least a decade. With Rockne, it's all about the acceptable level of decomposition.
Edit: How do you embed Youtube videos again?
Well the embedding is disabled for that one, so I'd say you got it right. Otherwise just paste the embed link into the plain text editor.
I didn't see the above reply because of the comment page break. Nevermind.
"Why would you ask a dumb question like that?"
Yes, with the right assistants. However, like others have posted above, he's living the good life right now.
What I loved about Lloyd outside of his outstanding successes at Michigan was that he still to this stay was a care taker of the program. He never acted as if he was the face of Michigan, or more important than anyone else in Michigan football. Lloyd Carr deserves a happy retirement as much as anyone else.
Saying that a coach can succeed "with the right assistants" is basically a polite way of saying he isn't very good. The assistants don't run the show.
The assistants don't run the show.
Ask Penn State about that. They have been doing just fine.
First, what Penn State went through in the first half of the decade and second is virtually unprecedented - going from very good to incredibly bad to very good, all under the same coach. That's an outlier, not an example to follow.
But at any rate, they certainly didn't do fine from 2000-04, when they posted four losing seasons out of five. Only then was JoePa finally compelled to loosen the reins. And even before then, he'd shown an adaptability that Lloyd really hadn't. (Note, for example, the different types of QBs he used over the course of his career.)
Michigan Athletic Director Don Canham contacted Paterno in 1969 to see if Paterno (whom Canham respected and knew personally) would accept the vacant Michigan job. Paterno turned down the offer and Michigan went on to hire Bo Schembechler.
Paterno has also turned down the Pittsburgh Steelers (1969) and the New England Patriots (1972). But maybe the OP should consider JoPa; I think he would be a more likely choice than Lloyd at this point.
Reason 1: There is no going back now. We are going to be a new-fangled spread team or die trying. If we die trying, that means finding giant white gorilla quarterbacks and spending 4 years overhauling the overhaul of the team.
Reason 2: Lloyd is a great guy, but he made some frustrating decisions. He is past his prime and almost assuredly would not bring much success to us, especially in light of (1).
Reason 3: I don't think Lloyd would even want to. He seems content to enjoy retirement, drink Arnold Palmers, and look like the coolest grandpa in the world.
Definitely not. He was a great mentor for the players, a great coach in his early years, and a good coach in his later years, but it would be a bad thing if he came back, IME.
Robinson went 67-14-2 in his first run at USC from '76 to '82 and but only 37-21-2 in his second run from '93 to '97. He started out the second run with three straight bowl wins but finished 6-6 and 6-5 in his last two years at USC.
In Lloyd's case, at a minimum I suspect he'd find it more difficult to recruit in a second run at Michigan. He turns 65 at the end of the month, and recruits would be concerned that he'd be there for more than a few years. I could also see him starting out well, with a lot of energy and enthusiasm, but having it peter out after a couple of years.
If bringing back a 65+ year old Lloyd Carr is ever considered a good option for UM, then UM football is in a far more dire condition than I can imagine. Carr was a good coach and a great recruiter in his heyday, but you could see the chinks in the armor during those last few seasons, and I honestly do not think that he would have the energy and drive to grind through the non-stop cycle required of big-time college coaches.
Coach Carr. I have always supported Rich Rodriguez as well. I beilieve this is a question about integrity which in many facets of his career LC has exemplified. So, I do not think Lloyd would come back if asked or begged.
This is a classic Sports Radio question where you change the context and indirectly ask. "Whom do you like better Rich or LC." without asking that question verbatim which would induce groans and booing.
This post/question is just a poorly veiled attempt to start a fresh round of RR bashing. The point will be completely moot by October when it becomes apparent that RR's system has taken hold and we're back to winning.
To his credit no one knows this better than Tressel. He has been distinctly quiet on the subject of RR - he knows what is coming and, unlike Hope, Dantonio and their likes doesn't want to fan the flames and have to eat a bunch of idiotic words down the road.
Even though I was "scolded" I appreciate what you said.
The man has done enough, leave him alone.
For a long time. This really isn't any surprise he's just trying to stir up the pot and is (I think) a Spartan fan.
Is that you?
I don't remember any of Lloyd's players wearing it in 2005, 2006 or 2007.
To the sidelines of the Alumni Flag Football Game at the Spring Game? Absolutely.
Let the man enjoy his retirement.
Who opened the doors to the "pants around the ankles while pissing" crowd lately? The user content has been MLive-esque over the last month or so and it makes me want to burn into a thousand deathly burn deaths.
Who opened the doors to the "pants around the ankles while pissing" crowd lately?
I lol'd... then I realized I'm technically in that crowd. Oops.
There aren't any BAD ideas, but let's keep trying...
Uh... if RR pulls a Damon Evans midseason, Lloyd would be the logical coach, since he'd still retain the coordinators, etc. This would be strictly temporary for one season. Other than that, it would make no sense.
I really don't think the premise of this post made any sense. Lloyd wanted to retire in '06, stuck around for '07, and that's that.
the AppyOr era? He did leave the cupboard bare! Hammerhead would have done as well at M as he's done at R Kansas. For cryin out loud, let the old guy go back to sleep.
And the winner for "Pointless Thread of the Day" goes to......
That's just not going to happen. He cares too much about this program to pull something like that.
He should coach the Alumni Flag Football game each Spring and that is all.
He barely liked recruiting the last 3 years of his career. Why the fuck would his old ass want to go around sucking up to teenage boys at this stage in his life?
The Big Ten Commercial would be pretty funny though. I picture Joe Pa shitting himself and Schiano cleaning it up waiting for his chance, Dantonio putting electronic dog collars on his players and setting up electric fencing around the nerd dorms, Hope being an all around douchnozzle, Brewster yelling, GO FIGHT WIN VICTORY RECRUIT DERRRRRP, Tressel standing there in his gay friendly sweater vest pointing to Big Ten Championship rings, Fitzgerald just standing there like a bad ass in Purple, Ferentz bailing his kid out of jail and taking him to the bar to celebrate, Zook water skiing shirtless, Lynch throwing his gum at the camera and having a seizure, Bielema getting his Iowa tattoo removed and then Lloyd goes all Michael J Fox up in that bitch.
Just say NO! Why not hire CoachBT? It's just about as smart.
In retrospect, you probably could have just posted a "<-------" in this thread
Why did you register in February 2009 with the nickname "Terminate Carr"? A little dated, don't you think?
How do you delete a comment?
Give in to your anger.
It is unavoidable. It is.. your destiny.
I would have been happy if he would have been canned after Michigan gave up over 50 to NW.
I threw up in my mouth a little when I read this for a number of reasons.
I guess that I don't get the Lloyd Carr hate on the board!
The guy won games...point blank. When he was the coach, we won! Did we lose some games that we should of won...yes! But we were one of the best times in the country every single year! Always competing for a Big Ten championship and frequently in the top 10!
Only 1 (once) did the team lose more than 4 games in a season, while he was coach. And every year except that one we finished in the top 20 with 6 times in the top 10.
Now we are stuck with Rich Rod. I would bring Lloyd back at any time. I would bring him in as an AD to consult the program on the direction it should be going.
Give up the Lloyd hate!
A word of advice, since you seem new. . .you're not going to find many supporters for the whole "stuck with Rich Rod" argument here. It might be in your best interests to go find a place that is more into that sort of thing. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Just that you'll probably be immediately ostracized if you continue to advocate your viewpoint in such a manner.
I would bring him in as an AD to consult the program on the direction it should be going.
So . . . you want David Brandon gone, in addition to RR?
For the record, Lloyd is already our assistant AD.
Nope...didn't say that. And while he is listed as an assistant AD, he has not really been visible and I am not exactly sure what his role has been or what he has done.
For the record, I do not want Rich Rod gone (unless this season is another mess) or David Brandon.
"Now we are stuck with Rich Rod"
But you don't want him gone?
You might want to work on making a little more sense, or at least being consistent
Someone has been hanging out with JaMarcus Russell a little too much. Sippin' on that purple drank.
Lloyd wanting to come back would probably be an early sign of dementia, so I would vote no.