Question some friends and I were debating:
Would you be willing to have the most corrupt program in college football if it meant multiple national championships and becoming the most dominant program in the nation?
We almost did that in basketball. It's taken us 20 years to get over it... and we're still not.
1) Got caught
2) Hired a terrible replacement coach.
We did not have the most corrupt program in college basketball because we gave a shit and stopped doing it once caught.
weren't the MOST corrupt. There are other programs that would have (and did) hide those type of violations, and we didn't.
IS this even up for debate?
No I would rather wait longer and do it the right way.
And not just in football. In any field I would rather fail working hard and doing things the right way than cheat in order to succeed.
you guys are crazy....... rings on rings on rings!!
trolling? so my opinion doesn't deserve to be visible simply because it differs from the majority's opinion? What a shame...
Did you even state an opinion? Your post was labeled trolling because it's nonsensical.
What the hell are you talking about? It's december and I have not been trolling the great lakes since September. It's cold out fergodsakes.
Nope. Glory is fleeting when it is stolen. It is eternal when it is won. Just ask Jim Tressel.
Here is the problem with bringing Jim Tressel into this: He doesn't give a fuck. It doesn't even register with him that he ever did anything wrong. This "glory is fleeting when stolen" stuff is for people with a conscience. When we're talking about "most corrupt program" we're talking about having (and being) people that, when caught, convince themselves that we're not the problem, it's those people trying to tear us down that are the problem.
Ask Jim Tressel, or the average Buckeye, and he'll say, "Corrupt? We weren't corrupt. The glory was stolen from us."
If I could upvote this I would. Exactly the right response. We remember Bo fondly because of what he built out of honesty and hard work. In 10 years, no one will remember the Vest as anything but a crook (except for the most dyed-in-wool fans of Ohio).
If you still have doubts, go watch the Fab Five documentary again. Were you sadder when you watched C Webb call the timeout, or when you saw the banners sitting on a shelf? It was definitely the latter for me.
EDIT: my response is to the "ask Jim Tressel" post, not the response below it. Not sure if that was clear given the sequence of how these comments popped up.
This is Michigan Forgodsakes.
missed it by... that much
Let's put it this way: Knowing what I know right now about the two men, I'd rather have had Jerry Kill's 2011 season than Jim Tressel's 2002 season.
No. (Then I'd be just like tOSU fans.)
It never works out for "long term" for those types of programs. And it goes against our "tradition" Were Michigan Fergodsakes.
This isn't Nam or C-Bus/Tuscaloosa.
Is this a serious question?
Halfway. Obviously Ohio State sold their soul after Cooper. And you see Auburn, Alabama, and the SEC cheating, but how far in this landscape of college football would you have Michigan go to be a national title contender every year?
It's not like kids go to Stillwater and Tuscaloosa because they love the city...
....flay myself with a paring knife while whistling Steven Sondheim tunes.
I thought the movie was pretty good.
.....I suppose I would have to flay myself while whistling "Putting It Together" from "Sunday In The Park With George".
Auburn says yes.
If say I was a small school like EMU or something, I'd ball out. You're never going to compete with the big boys (look at Boise, all those years of work and they best they can manage is some Zombie Big East action). Also it takes the NCAA at least a half decade to notice improper benefits. So I'd do whatever it took to score the recruits and pay whatever it cost. Better to be Miami and live briefly in glory than suffer through the long depressing life of Akron.
So as a small school, yeah I'd go for all the style points and go down later in flames. At least my fans would get to see some awesome games before my entire coaching staff ran for the NFL and I got the death penalty.
(I'd actually kind of respect any MAC school that had the guts to do this.)
Speaking as a fan of EMU also, I would not want to see EMU go this road. In fact one of the things I like about English is that he seems to be doing this the right way. EMU will never be a power on the scale of Boise but it might end up a power in the MAC.
If you could alter Michigan's football history by either undoing the practicegate scandal or the App St loss, which would you undo?
My answer would be consistent.
than win without them.
This is Michigan, fergodsakes.
... it did turn out so well for SMU.
I think the pretense of your question is a little wack. If you have the most corrupt program in the country and win national championships, the NCAA will take notice. If you are as corrupt as you lay out, then the NCAA will take you to task and make you vacate said wins. So, in the end, not only have you not won anything (by virtue of vacating), but you've just blown up your program.
Even if that wasn't the case, I think we Michigan folks hold ourselves to high standards, both academically and professionally. It's why we are so arrogant (and AWESOME!). It would work quite counter to our image to act in a way inconsident and unbecoming with our ideals.
So... fuck no.
Of course they'll notice, but the question is, will they do anything about it?
I wouldn't do it at Michigan, but I think for most of 1-A, I think you'd find more people willing to than not.
I have to believe this was posted somewhere here but I follow this site pretty closely and I never saw anything about this. www.ozone.net had a post from Dec 1 saying the NCAA granted OSU a waiver to have more coaches than allowed during the transition period. But don't worry, it's totally fair because Meyer and the new folks will only be recruiting whiel Fickell and the old staff do most of the coaching for teh bowl game. This is an effing joke. First, because why would the NCAA do anything to reward OSU in terms of how they handle a mess created by their own violation of NCAA rules. Second, wouldn't all schools like to have extra coaches for recruiting? This is NCAA enabling cheaters, in fact rewarding them.
I'm pretty sure that's standard practice. RR was recruiting while LC was still the "interim" coach.
You are probably right. I guess most of my beef with it is that OSU's coaching change was a direct result of OSU violating the NCAA's own rules. And now OSU has gone to the NCAA, saying, "We've had to make this coaching change it is causing us some problems, can we have a waiver."
Although them firing Bollman in order to have Meyer recruit might actually make Ohio fans happier, so at least we've got that going for us.
No...short term is never the answer
"Question some friends and I were debating"
I hope you were on the "No, fergodsake" side.
I think it's interesting to ask since obviously cheating works.
I guess my answer would be hookers and abortions for MNCs = HELL NO. Booster money to stars who "don't know about it" and no consequences for NCs, I could probably get behind that. I don't see any point in getting all high and mighty unless somebody is being legitimately victimized. There's a certain gamesmanship to the harmless cheating. Something about "then you ain't trying."
were these friends Buckeyes by any chance?
No, they can read.
He said they were debating, and that takes some sort of brain power to form legitimate arguments. When have you ever heard of a tsio fan with brain power. That's an oxymoron in itself.
It's still happening in columbus as we type and despite this season seems to be working for them. The NCAA will be completely powerless to stop it after they let osu off the hook and I won't be surprised to see a USC lawsuit pop up. Cheating is now the rule, not the isolated exception. It's play by the new rules or become ND.
Eventually the SEC and other schools will be caught if they are indeed cheating (they probably are but who knows fo sure?) and it will just validate all of the programs that stayed straight throughout all the years. So..... No
Auburn, osu, and Oregon all were caught and although we don't know everything about Oregon yet, signs point to all 3 being let off. Getting "caught" is now a minor inconvenience rather than a reason for true concern. A little plausible deniability as they call it, maybe a scapegoat goes down and the school uses the millions from all the cheating to hire another big money coach and nothing really changes. If you believe the SEC is headed for a collective downfall, you're in for a huge disappointing surprise.
That was the problem, the only had a Miss St guy. OSU still is awaiting punishment, and who knows about Oregon.