Would a win at PSU be Coach Hoke's biggest road win?
Neutral site, not a road game.
If Michigan had beaten Bama, would that have been given the same dismissive "neutral site" treatment?
The Sugar Bowl was a great win. It just wasn't a road win.
Yes it was.
Well, look - you might think calling it a "road win" is appropriate because Michigan won "on the road." However, Virginia Tech was also on the road (New Orleans isn't particularly close to either school). Therefore, this neutral site game didn't offer a home field advantage to either team , which is what I would consider the paramount challenge of playing on the road. So it's entirely an issue of semantics, but in my mind there's no question that beating the Hokies in this neutral site game was a different animal than beating someone on their own turf.
I see what you're saying, but my argument is that it is a road game whenever a team travels. It doesn't matter if it is a neutral site game. Playing away from a home stadium is and will always be a road game.
The RPI calculation treats home, road, and neutral site games differently.
That's fine, but they're still on the road. The games are away from home venues. They're on the road, which means they're road games.
Call it "wins at opposing team's home venues" which is what the OP is getting at. Geez...
Would playing UCLA in the Rose Bowl (the game not stadium) be a road game? Seems like the answer is yes. Playing USC there might also be a road game as they don't have to travel and could follow their home game routine.
I would posit the following:
Playing against UCLA in the Rose Bowl during the regular season would be a de jure road game.
Playing against UCLA at the Rose Bowl in the actual Rose Bowl game (on Jan. 1) would be a de facto road game.
I assume you consider The Big Chill a road game then because the Big House is not in fact our hockey team's home venue?
I see what you did there.
Every game could be considered a home or road game. All teams travel together in some form to reach whatever stadium they are playing at even when it's in the city they live in. They use roads for this. Road game.
The Earth is our home. This place is for us. If our heart lies in the place we wind up then we are home. Therefore Happy Valley is a home game.
And while we're at it, as long as both teams play by the rules and have a lot of fun, aren't both teams winners as well? As far as I'm concerned, every Michigan squad is undefeated in my heart. Yay!
to see how small the text boxes can get
Smash that broad
I hope it'll last.
is relished by the wisest men.
to be a part of my first MGoBlog Shitshow thread.
For smaller box.
our space is running out!
Nobody did one more box.
I am going to lick the first two layers of skin off of your entire body. Then I will bath you in the finest salts all the way from the black sea. You will then be treated with a ritualistic dance to remove the demon within you. An old priest and a young priest will put forth their words and I will reach within you and remove the evil through your lower basin.
Picturing Gary Busey doing that is sort of making my day
You're the best, Gary.
-1 (Ritualistic Torture)
The Michigan football team has to travel on a road to get to the Big House. Road game.
I think it's more of a "street" that they take. So maybe it's a street game?
You seem to be unable to understand the difference between the literal, dictionary definition of "road game" and how 99% of sports fans understand the term. Sports fans understand that a road game means a visit to your opponents home field. A neutral site game means travel by both teams to a site that is neither team's home field. It's why people use phrases like "away from home" when they want to encompass road games and neutral site games.
I don't know why I'm bothering to answer. It seems like you're just trying to see how long you can keep this up.
Oh no, I perfectly understand what a "road game" is, but that doesn't change the fact that neutral site games require travel and are on the road.
Home road away neutral ... defend this house... winning on the road... the road to the B1G championship . Technically VT was the Sugar Bowl home team in 2012 - they wore home jerseys and sat on the home side. They lost a home game if you want to go to that place. There is a difference between beating OSU in the shoe and in Indianapolis. Either one is sweet but I prefer the terms in Lucas Oil. Both are road games in your mind... so be it. For those who play football in reality let their be more accurate designations. Read all you want between the lines ... there is an overarching theme.
The Michigan football team has to travel on a road to get to the Big House. Road game.
"Road games" aren't just road games because you have to hop in a vroom vroom to get there. They are road games because you are entering into another team's home venue.
There's a difference between playing Alabama in Tuscaloosa (where the entire crowd is pro-Alabama and they are playing on familiar turf) and playing them in Dallas (where the crowd is 50/50 and both teams are on unfamiliar turf).
I mean there are road games and their are nuetral site games, right? The distinction is not all that difficult to grasp I don't think. It would have been his biggest win to date, but still not a road win.
It was a road win.
so the whole crowd at the sugar bowl was almost all Hokie fans? The whole purpose of people mentioning "best road win" would be the fact that we go into a hostile environment and win... The sugar bowl didn't exactly look like it was very hostile to me period.. Quit trying to saying it was a true road win under every comment
It was on the road. Why is that hard to understand? Any game away from Michigan Stadium is a road game.
So you would also argue that there is no fundamental, qualitative difference between a tomato and an orange, since technically they're both fruits.
He said they are both road games. A better example would be every square is a rhombus, not every rhombus is a square.
Every neutral game is on the road. Every game on the road is not neutral.
Yeah but, you're an idiot if you refer to a square as a rhombus. The point of names is to identify something. If you want to identify something as a square, you call it a square. If something happens to not be a sqaure but is a rhombus, that's when you would call it a rhombus.
But they are still correct.
The Michigan football team has to travel on a road to get to the Big House. Road game. Is it really that hard to understand?
So if Michigan has more fan at the NW game in November, is that not considered a road game? The fans argument is weak. Leave that one at home.
UCONN and NW aren't real road games.
How is it "dismissive"?
A neutral-site game, with half the crowd cheering for your team and neither team playing in its home surroundings, is a very different experience from a road game. The Sugar Bowl was a great win for the program. It just wasn't a road game.
Yes it was a road game.
It was a home game. This country is our home and we can travel freely through it. Home game.
But they do designate home and road teams for the bowl games. If it was a road game for everyone then both teams would be wearing white.
When OSU plays on the road you cannot count it as a road win because they travel so well that half of the stadium, or more, are their fans. You do remember 2009 when they did the O_H_I... chant in all four corners of our stadium, right? I have not had enough counseling nor enough electroshock therapy to forget that.
That was pathetic and embarrassing. If that happens ever again (especially this year when they will likely be 11-0 coming to AA), I will be absolutely livid. I hate how their inbred fans invade pretty much every stadium they play on the road.
This country is the home to anyone who lives in it and home is wherever they want it to be. Therefore, those were home games for the Buckeyes.
Home is where the heart is
My heart is where I am
Home is where I am
I am in Happy Valley
Home is in Happy Valley
Home game tomorrow w00t!
Yes because it was a neutral site.
but still a road game
Responding to the same argument six times with a "yes it was" isn't really helpful. Why do you think the things you think?
I want to make sure everyone understands the fact that neutral site games are on the road and thus considered road games.
Games away from a home venue are on the road, correct? They're road games. Why is that hard to understand?
You're making people understand a different fact than the one you're intending.
The fact I am stating is that neutral site games require travel, are played at stadiums other than Michigan Stadium, which means they are on the road.
Yup. I also find it funny that so many people cannot understand that neutral site games are on the road since they are played away from your team's home.
... that you've tried to make the same point over and over, despite nobody giving a shit about your semantic "gotcha". Give it a rest.
OP clearly intended the question in one way (playing at the opposing team's stadium), you've made your point, people dismissed it as annoying... now get over yourself,
Yes, neutral sites require travel...but the OP already stated that he's not counting those games because it is a completely different environment with 50% Michigan fans. Do you not get how that's different? I know you're probably going to say "yea, but it's still a road game" or something along those lines, but I know deep down you get it. You're not that stupid.
That and a dollar will get you a whole lot of no one gives a shit.
a treatable medical condition?
It's not treatable for Wolverines Dominate.
You're stupid and you should feel bad. Guessing you don't have much going on today, huh?
It was NOT a road game, infinity.
Sure it was. I saw them play a game in a different stadium than the Big House, so they traveled, which made it a road game.
Yes, but there are several roads around the Big House, and the players have to cross these roads to get to the stadium. So I guess they're all road games.
With that being the case, I think Hoke's biggest road win was Ohio State 2011.
Maybe Coach Hoke has no road wins. The Wolverins have never played on a road under him. They've always played on fields.
I drove home from work today, so I guess I"m on a road trip.
Dude, you are out of line. You have more than made you point. However no one else is agreeing, you won't win anyone over by repeating the same thing over and over. That is being very childish.
What is being childish is not acknowledging the fact that games played away from Michigan Stadium are on the road. I'm not one to back down from an argument/discussion. I'm stating a a fact that no one else can understand.
Dude, everyone acknowledges your point, but it doesn't make you right. You in fact are wrong. That is not how the games are classified. Repeating your same statements over and over is childish.
This is an instance when I miss the upvote/downvote, so all of your posts would just be downvoted and I wouldn't have to look at your idiotic responses.
Where have u been hiding?
Wolverines Dominate - please stop and politely agree to disagree with people. You have been shown that your definition does not agree with the generally accepted definition. You can still disagree with that, but to clutter the thread with insistence on this point is now trolling (as is everything of yours below this post). You will not be warned again.
I don't understand why his account still exists. This is not the first time he's done this and anyone on these boards more than once a week knows how insufferable he is. Take a look at his history, he adds nothing...but continues to add it on a daily basis.
infinity to the infinity power.
One of the biggest challenges of playing on the road is playing in a hostile environment. Neutral sites, while unfamiliar, don't quite have the same intimidating quality of the opposing team's home stadium.
It's a road game.
Wasn't played in Blacksburg so it was not a road game.
As I am still convinced that you are the Heisenberg-like alter ego to Devotee, I believe you are now playing mind games with us.
But it was not played in Michigan Stadium, which means it was on the road. Why can you not comprehend that?
Nah. I expect to see humans take the field, which happens when there is a home game. I also expect humans to take the field for road games, which includes bowl and neutral site games.
It's a HOME game.
It will be Hoke's biggest road win, but only until the first Saturday of this November.
could be the biggest, but we'll know more about that after NU plays Wisconsin this weekend.
Looking at his road wins that you posted, they weren't that impressive. But it's tough to say what kind of team PSU has.
the kind of team that loses to IU and UCF.....
have the kind of team that needed a legendary goal line stand to take out the Zips at home. Should go down to the wire.
Seriously though. It would be a mistake to be dismissive of Penn State. This is their bowl game, big ten championship game and homecoming all rolled into one shit sandwich for us to endure. I think by the time you are looking live at Beaver stadium you will see that this is going to be a dog fight.
They also have a team that i bet could easily beat us on the road tomorrow
We're a slim 2 1/2 - 3 point favorite. http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=usatoday&page=gaming/liveodds2CFOOT.aspx
Sagarin has us at #30 and PSU at #48 http://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaaf/sagarin/
Hmmmm....seems to me like PSU is a team that is short on talent with a few bright spots. Plus, a freshman QB in big games? PSU lost 14 players last year when the sanctions were announced. That a frosh QB is starting, speaks a ton. I'd bet Mattison is going to dial up all sorts of interesting play calling.
DG needs to play smart and this game is very winnable.
I think one of the goals on D should be to get Hackenberg as mentally shaken up as possible. Even though this is a home game for him, it's his first game against a big opponent with a wild crowd. If we can get in his head early, we'll be in good shape.
I said this in an earlier post - we should blitz anyone not covering Allen Robinson on almost every down. Get him happy feet in the pocket. Make him get rid of the ball before he wants to. Their OL isn't very good so we'll get a few sacks out if it as well.
Do neutral sites count as road wins? I'd rank VaTech there if so.
and neutral- site games (such as bowl games, conference championship games, and games such as U of M vs. Bama @ Dallas).
But neutral site games still require travel, so yes, it's a road game.
Man, you're stubborn. Also wrong.
I am wrong when I say neutral site games require travel and are road games?
are you a dbag.. yes
Those venues were their home for the few days they were there. Home game.
I would say the Sugar Bowl was the biggest but this would be the second IMHE. He has the opportunity to eclipse that in a few weeks though,. and let's hope he does.
All road wins are "good" road wins. It's tough to win on the road. That said, this weekend will just be the "best of the good." Winning @ PSU during these times isn't a highlight.
UCF rocked UConn on the road, they also beat PSU on the road. Let's hope we can prove we're better than the unranked Knights.
I don't think UCF has played UConn yet. UCF crushed Akron at home, which is the other common opponent so far between us and the golden knights.
A thought regarding the 2012 OSU game: that was arguably Michigan's best road performance under Coach Hoke in light of the Buckeyes' 12-0 finish and the typical loudness of the crowd at the Shoe.
It was also only Gardner's fourth career start.
Thus far under Hoke our rivals have been at their best when we play them away and down when we play them at home. ND and OSU were 8-5 and 6-7, respectively, in 2011 while they went 12-1 and 12-0 the next year when they were on the road. MSU went 11-3 in 2011 (when we played them on the road) and then 7-6 last year (when we played them at home). Hopefully this trend doesn't continue, since we'd obviously rather play the tough teams at home.
this guy gets it...Hoke's losses are not purely because the difference home and away...that's part of it for sure, but it's harder to beat anyone on the road than at home for any coach. Hoke has had tough road losses against nat champ Bama (sort of road), #2 and 12-1 ND, #3 and 12-0 OSU, an 11-3 MSU that finished in the top 15, a 10-4 Nebraska team held to just 23 points with their super-offense by UM, and playing without our best player at QB/RB for the first time in over 2 years, a very good South Carolina team, and his lone duck of a road loss was Iowa...and we had lousy games, but wins against Akron and Uconn.
Hoke has lost to more talented, or more physical teams typically, and many happened to be on the road...those are two things he is fixing. All but Bama had a hell of a game too. Hoke has been good overall against teams with lesser talent and depth...knock on wood...Penn State overall has lesser talent and depth....Hoke should fix our road probs with time.
No. Michigan needs to win at MSU.
I think the OP meant to date, but yes, this season, clearly the MSU game is the most important.
In terms of importance, yes because it's a conference game in front of one of the largest hostile crowds in the country. The Sugar Bowl was a huge road win, too.
You mean neutral site win. Semantics aside, it was also a very ugly win.
Of course it was a neutral site win, but it also occurred on the road.
Ugly win? Eh, I guess so, but if M wins every game 2-0 for all eternity, I'm fine with that.
The Sugar Bowl was a huge home win, too.
Fixed it for you. No thanks required.
best road win was at Iowa in 2011. I am going to go ahead and give him one of the three pass interferences on the final drive or Hemingway's actual completed touchdown catch after said pass interferences were ignored and put that one in the W column.
Ugh, that loss stung a great deal and we got robbed big time. MSU was the only legitimate loss that year.
reason (or very obvious ones) I took that loss really hard. I thought it was a game they were going to pull out in the end.
Well they should have had at least one more try considering the last play was clear pass interference. It was similar to Desmond's being interfered with against MSU years ago.
Considering how meh our former road wins look, against what were lesser opponents in stadiums that are just not hostile at all, I'd say that this, undoubtedly, would be Hoke's biggest road win.
Whether or not Penn State is good in any given year, Happy Valley is a tough place to play no matter which way you slice it.
thus far for Hoke. Am I wrong?
He's not talking about the score of the games, but whether or not UM can beat a good team on the road.
NU was 6-7 that year, hardly a world-beater
I would actually argue that the Illinois game in 2011 was a bigger road W than Northwestern. Headed into that game, Illinois was 6-3 and coming off close losses OSU, Purdue, and a good Penn State team. They had been ranked in the top 25 for several weeks, and had good wins over Northwestern and a ranked Arizona State team. Michigan was coming off a bad road loss at Iowa, and in fact had dropped two of the preceding three games (the other was to MSU in East Lansing four weeks earlier). So that Illinois game was pretty pivotal in terms of how the 2011 season would go after that. In addition, Michigan played probably its best defensive game (to that point) under Mattison, and for the first time in several years looked truly in command against (what we thought at the time was) a quality opponent.
OTOH, Illinois wound up losing all their remaining regular season games that year to finish 6-6, and then beat a very mediocre UCLA team in the Kraft Fight Hunger Bowl. Illinois of course then fired Zook and bottomed-out in 2012. So, in retrospect that Illinois win doesn't look nearly as impressive. But you never know, maybe we did that to them!
Penn State homecoming? 100,000+ fans in a whiteout? An unspeakable hatred for Michigan? At "night"?
Yeah. This would be his biggest road win yet.
Why do you put "night" in quotation marks?
When I think of night games I typically think of an 8pm start, or somewhere around there. This game starts at 5pm.
Well, kickoff is at 5, well before it gets dark.
is actually a pretty cool time for a game to start. You will get that night-closing-in feeling around the start of the second quarter.
Maybe because more than half the game will be played before it's "night."
It will be dark around 6:30. The lights will be on. It will be night time.
Wow, you are annoying. So obviviously annoying that it borders on entertainment.
No it doesn't, there is nothing funny about his behavior.
Aside from the fact that there is still visible ambient light even after the sun has set—normal people call that "twilight"—nobody with a lick of sense would declare that any part of the day before sunset is "night."
Kickoff is at 5pm, so at least half the game will be played before the sun has set. The fact that the lights will be on doesn't automatically make it "night" any more than putting on your car headlights during a dark afternoon thunderstorm makes it "night."
5:00 is not night. Half the game will be played before it is completely dark enough to require external lighting.
So because the lights are on at 3:30 games does that make them night games? The lights are on. The games end when it's night time. So, night game, right?
Just because it is dark doesn't mean it's night. There could be an eclipse.
You could have your sunglasses on.
Of course, you could also wear your sunglasses at night.
Wait... what were we talking about?
I'm going to black out all of the windows in my house, turn on the lights, and it will be night time. Am I doing this right?
Are you my wife? You have to argue with any point. I am with you on the non-home/raod game issue, but holy shit, I usually don't hear "argumentative bitching" about anything and everything unless I at home. WOW. It is a 5:00 start, would "evening" be more appropriate? It will be dark for a large portion of the game, hence the "quotes".
And yes, I used the words argumentative bitching in qoutes to add a bamboo shoot to the others that reside under your nail beds.
I'm just being technical. I'm sorry if some people have a problem with that. My points about the night game tomorrow and road games (neutral site games) stand true.
You're being contrarian.
Making the argument once is being technical/picky. Adding a comment in to each stream that says, "I know you are but what am I" is being difficult and argumentative.
Say I have three colors: yellow, orange, and red. Orange is clearly a combination of yellow and red. Would you call orange red because it has red? No, you would call it orange to differentiate it from two other dissimilar things.
Sorry that I have to keep educating you. If there is light then it is not night. When the lights are on it is day. Michigan will be playing a road and a home game this weekend. I hope that through lengthy study you can come to this realization on your own.
It won't be night when the game starts. May not even be night at half time.
So from the Japanese perspective, it is a day game.
good road wins, and we need to start showing we can win strong there.
If Michigan wears their blue jerseys in the Rose Bowl, they're the "home team", ergo Rose Bowl win = home win. See how that works? Location could be Mars. Still not a road game.
Go ahead, You want to say it. You're glad a dbag like me comes around to tell you these things. :)
However, we should remember that Michigan has never played in a bowl game, because it has never played it a bowl. How would the players fit?
That Northwestern team was pretty good. Came from behind too. I should have been at that game *shakesfistatwife*.
But to your greater point: there isn't any glaring information that Michigan is any worse at playing on the road than any other team. It's easier to win at home. For everyone. That's why Michigan is undefeated there.
this site is populated by so many argumentative assholes! I love it.
is it a road game if they play it out of state?
no its a bowl game?
why couldn't the op just say biggest regular season road win... but then I wouldn't have laughed so hard just now.
...We're not here to be lectured by an Ewok that just got done watching Deliverance.
that for the first time in a long time on AMC a few nights ago. I have no idea what that movie is trying to say but whatever it is it says it profoundly. That is one of the strangest, most disorienting movies ever made.
That movie is burned into my brain like few others.
...but a film!
No it's not!
Yes it is!
No it's not!
Yes it is!
NO IT'S NOT!!
(The above both a reenactment and a preview of any discussion involving Wolverine Dominatrix. Subject to argument, that is.)
I believe WD is now prepared. But, to be technical he should also prepare his rectum. He is all yours.
Time to do what I do!
Run, Wolverines Dominate. Run as fast as you can!
when a rape ewok heads your way you are done; you have a better chance of outrunning Jason Vohrees than a rape ewok. (notice I said 'a' rape ewok, not 'the' ewok)...
are you sure you want to go there with Wolverine DOMINATRIX?
If we win, thats by far the toughest road environment we'll have won at. That Northwestern team was good but it was basically a bowl game with the crowd being 50-50 Michigan and Northwestern fans
Michigan has never played a road game. Michigan has played away games before, but even those away games are played in a stadium, not the road.
Oh wait, that doesn't work because neutral-site games would also be considered away games. I think the best designation is VISITING games, where Michigan visits their opponents' venue to play the game.
/s, to continue theme of Wolverines Dominate
Of Michigan's visiting victories, it may be the best win so far, but that depends largely on how Penn State finishes; their loss to Indiana may suggest they're really bad.
My feeling is this team is focused on the B1G Championship. This is my explanation for the scary non-conference schedule (save Central). I will be watching Ross III, Black and Avery on defense, who I expect to play very well tomorrow.
On offense, I'd like to see more FUNchess and Gallon. Hopefully the Penn State's defense allows as many rushing yards as they did against Indiana, and Fitz will gain 100+ yards.
Perhaps,toughest enviroment (sofar) this season,tho.
Wolverine Dominates sure is getting his posts in saying the same thing over and over again while not understanding anything. I can't wait to see his reply to this!!!! /popcorns popping
If Michigan wins big, this would arguably be Hoke's biggest road win as it would help wash away the veil of gloom of some of our other lackluster games. If Michigan limps by, then not so much.
I grieve for this thread, btw. Erik's question is a good one, but the rampant pedantry in the thread has made it really difficult to pick through the comments. It is an instance where I miss the ability to moderate comments into their proper gray space. (And I half expect someone to reply to correct me and say that the preferred spelling is grey, not gray.)
Is a road game is absurd and the person arguing it is a clown and is the last person I would want to have a beer with.
You are not authorized to access this page.
Discussion about blocking assignments when Michigan runs power = good.
This = bad.
It was the day time of the night.
I don't think I've ever called out another poster or said anything negative / inflamnatory but... wtf??? Grow up dude, we all get the concept you're selling but no one agrees with your interpretation.
Too bad, the original question was actually interesting but I can't believe I devoted 8 minutes of my life to scrolling thru this nonsense.
"Our biggest road win, against a mediocre PSU team? No, stuuuupid!"
But then I looked at your list of Brady's road wins and was all, "Oh yeah, word."
Short answer - there has not been an impressive road win in Hoke's tenure thus far. Most of those teams were also rans or worse at the time. The Sugar Bowl was a neutral site game. Even that win was one of those "how did we win that?" sort of affairs.
The PSU game, I expect, we will look back at, and place it no different than a lot of games that Hoke won on the road - a very average team was beaten... although the venue would be the most hostile of the ones listed.
There are 2 chances for signature road wins this year - @NW and @MSU. That is all. @Iowa will be "impressive" in the fact Kinnick is not an easy place to play but the talent of the Iowa is akin to PSU.
around a tree and the squirrel is circling around the tree's trunk to avoid the dog, does the dog ever circumvent the squirrel? Think about THAT one.
Unfortunately, yes it would. The one thing missing from Brady Hoke's resume is that signature road win.
but I think Hoke's first real "signature" win in an opponent's own stadium would be up in EL in a few weeks. MSU should be 7-1 coming into the game and ranked in the top 15 or so.
Going from unranked to top 15 after facing Indiana, Purdue, and Illinois seems highly unlikely.
On Oct 2, 2011, MSU was unranked in the AP poll. By October 23, they were 6-1 and ranked #11 in the AP.
Other teams ahead of them in the polls are going to lose, which helps open things up.
it takes 3-5 weeks to halve your ranking by attrition.
we're all better off now, if not smarter---it appears that the Dominatrix has been banned.
A big THANK YOU to whomever it was that pulled his/her plug!
that's it on the road? This would definitely be the biggest until nov 2 2013
...but it's certainly safe to say it would be his most recent.
We just have to goto happy valley and take care of business..
at least not for this thread alone. I'm not sure being disagreeable and irritatingly argumentative is sufficient grounds, but maybe there's preceding stuff. I understand the reasons why we don't have it now, but in the olden days this is something that would have been handled by the community via an old-fashioned negbang.