Would Carr have recruited Dorsey?

Submitted by Dan Man on

I didn't start to follow Michigan recruiting until the last few years, so I ask this question out of curiosity and not to start any bickering. We know that Dorsey had some arrests in his past but apparently was not convicted of anything. Rich Rod talked at his presser, somewhat painfully, about "knowing all the facts," though he declined to respond to the question of whether he believed Dorsey did not commit a crime. Rich Rod also spoke about "being in the wrong place at the wrong time." I guess the gist of the whole thing is that Dorsey probably made some mistakes, which got him in trouble with the law, but probably did not attempt armed robbery or whatever else he was arrested for.

Here is my question for those who have followed Michigan recruiting for longer than I have: did Carr ever recruit kids with dismissed felony charges and whatnot? Does anyone think we are compromising our moral standards for athletic ability? Note that I'm NOT saying that kids do or don't deserve second chances. I'm just wondering whether our recruiting standards are changing and curious to hear what you think...

M-Wolverine

February 4th, 2010 at 10:05 AM ^

Brian is referring to Vance Bedford, who recruited the kid when at Florida for like a year, (Now DC at Louisville), calling Rich and recommending Dorsey. Vance was a great coach and a good guy, and if he endorses him, that's enough for me. (Not that I was particularly worried to begin with...)

dnak438

February 4th, 2010 at 11:53 AM ^

the coaches probably do an even more thorough job investigating "character" issues with players who have had run-ins with the law, so they must be pretty sure that he's a good kid. In that sense, they are probably taking less of chance on Dorsey than they are with the average recruit whose background doesn't raise any flags.

BlockM

February 3rd, 2010 at 11:32 PM ^

I wasn't following Michigan recruiting much when Carr was coaching, so I can't speak to that, or whether we've lowered our standards, but I don't think the number of incidents with current student-athletes have increased since Rodriguez has been here. There are always kids who made mistakes in the past and turn out to be upstanding men, and some who seemed to be great guys and said all the right things before getting out of control in college. You do your best. If Rodriguez is being completely transparent (or at least close to it) in his press conferences, he seems to be taking recruits' character into consideration when giving out offers. Time will tell whether these recruits end up causing trouble when they're at Michigan.

Feat of Clay

February 4th, 2010 at 2:24 PM ^

Yes, god, thank you--this needs to be said early and often.

You trust the coaches to make reasonable judgment calls about character, and then to run a program that gives their athletes ample chances to live up to high expectations of behavior and performance.

If it works, you'll know it. If it doesn't, then you hope your name is Dantonio and you're at MSU where fans & the media are very forgiving.

burntorangeblue

February 4th, 2010 at 12:52 AM ^

Yeah, maybe Carr wouldn't have taken the chance. But any reasonably informed Michigan fan will point out a ton of Carr recruits that didn't make the cut after they got to campus.

So, you're taking a risk before the fact, or you're left lamenting the past ex post. In the case with Dorsey, at least you took a chance on a kid with promise--if it turns out good, then everyone is the better for it. If it doesn't, then we part ways no one the worse for the wear. I don't see where the down side is, so long as you deal with issues on campus properly.

A Case of Blue

February 3rd, 2010 at 11:39 PM ^

This is a little bit frustrating, but I'm going to try:

Dorsey was acquitted by a jury. Which means that he was found not guilty.

Unless one has collected a considerable amount of information about inconsistencies in the trial, it's safe to assume that Dorsey was not guilty.

Moreover, it's unfair not to. Plenty of innocent people go to trial for crimes they didn't commit. It could be that he was in the wrong place at the wrong time, or even that he just knew the wrong people. Regardless, he was acquitted.

To talk about 'dismissed felony charges' is to miss the point of acquittal. Dorsey didn't, as far as the legal system is concerned, commit a crime.

If anyone has evidence to the contrary, feel free to prove me wrong.

Dan Man

February 3rd, 2010 at 11:46 PM ^

I don't think I "missed the point of the acquittal" - I don't think anyone is going out on a limb by saying that when a kid has multiple arrests for multiple felonies, he has a bit of a checkered past. I simply wanted to know whether Carr ever took players with such checkered pasts, and, according to Brian above, he did. My question was asked and answered.

A Case of Blue

February 3rd, 2010 at 11:50 PM ^

Sorry, I'm a bit snippy tonight.

Mainly I've seen this concern before elsewhere.

I don't doubt that Dorsey has probably made some poor choices in his past, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I was just passing through his hometown the other day, and it's the sort of place where kids get into trouble because they don't have anything else to do.

Hopefully RichRod is confident in Dorsey's character and his ability to make better choices once he's at Michigan.

Dan Man

February 4th, 2010 at 12:04 AM ^

No problem. I've never met Dorsey and give him and RichRod the benefit of the doubt, too. I think people are negging me because they think I'm trying to start a fight. I'm really not trying to, though I think I'll refrain from defending myself further because the more I post, the more people neg me.

Dan Man

February 4th, 2010 at 12:08 AM ^

No problem. I always tend to give anyone who grew up in a rough environment the benefit of the doubt that they can make better choices in a better place. I really wasn't trying to start a fight here, though I'll refrain from trying to defend myself further because people keep negging me.

kriegers

February 4th, 2010 at 2:53 PM ^

To me, the whole point of this board to hear reasonable opposing opinions and engage in reasonable discussion. I suppose some come for the comfort of knowing others share their same views, but most don't mind opposition.

People sometimes neg b/c they disagree and forget how to use their words (instead of negging for inappropropriate troll-like use). Ignore those people. Eventually, enough people will see the thread and realize you're being reasonable in your defense, even if they disagree, and they'll bump you back to even or better.

kriegers

February 3rd, 2010 at 11:57 PM ^

If you had literally just fell in love with Michigan football and started following michigan football this week, then maybe. But, you've been a member here since June 2008. I didn't neg you or anything, but you should know that a question like that is going to cause trouble b/c it suggests that RR is a lesser and worse coach than Carr and that M is worse off with RR - which is stupid and wrong.

Instead, try to focus on the fact that we got a DB with some serious swagger and skills to back it up.

BlockM

February 4th, 2010 at 12:01 AM ^

The moment we stop questioning is the moment we become sheep. Yeah, it stirs things up a bit, but I think it's valid. People shouldn't avoid asking questions because the answers might be contrary to what the general population thinks.

We have yet to see what RR can do at Michigan with his recruits and enough time. Once we've seen more, we'll be able to answer these questions a little better.

kriegers

February 4th, 2010 at 12:42 AM ^

I don't even mind thoughtless questions. However, I do have a problem with loaded questions. Dorsey is a national recruit with over a dozen offers. It's a bit silly to suggest that Carr wouldn't have recruited him and that RR has a lesser moral compass.

The same logic that says the moment we stop asking questions we become sheep also says that we're stronger when united behind a common goal.

Also, sorry for the snippiness of my original reply - I should have found a nicer way to convey my message.

gujd

February 3rd, 2010 at 11:55 PM ^

anyone else feel like Dorsey is going to be scrutinized like RROD has been for 2 and half years. The kid can't even enjoy his commitment to a great school without having to hear about this all day. It really makes me sick (not so much this, but I just listened to Sharp's podcast) that people will not let this go.

Giving Dorsey this scholarship is not even giving him a second chance. He hasn't done anything yet that would warrant needing a second chance. He is still on #1.

Jon Benke

February 4th, 2010 at 12:01 AM ^

How much would we hear this if Dorsey went to USC, Florida, FSU, MSU, Ohio State, or any other school for that matter? Come on, at least give the kid his day!

HHW

February 4th, 2010 at 7:42 AM ^

Lloyd took a chance on Kelly Baraka who had one or two drug convictions prior to signing. Of course he had two following his arrival that led to his dismissal. Let's hope that is not the outcome here.
I have no problem with RR taking him, but I assume he'll be on a much shorter leash than other players. Overall it seems like we have less off the field issues than we did in the Carr era, but I have no data to back that feeling up.

Frank Drebin

February 4th, 2010 at 7:48 AM ^

Lloyd recruited Marques Slocum. Try reading his famous interview and tell me that everyone Lloyd recruited was a great guy without a checkered past. Also, like HHW said, he gave Baraka 3 chances, and Kelly still blew it. There are many more, including players who were already enrolled such as Carson Butler, Adrian Arrington, and Johnny Sears. It happens everywhere, and everyone thinks they can help a young, troubled athlete turn the corner.

Magnus

February 4th, 2010 at 8:04 AM ^

a) The OP asked a question. He didn't point fingers. Since when do students and alumni of Michigan look down on an innocent inquiry? I thought U of M was a place where people went to ask questions and explore independent thought. I didn't realize this was Bob Jones University.

b) Dorsey would face this kind of scrutiny wherever he went. We might never hear about it because all we care about is Michigan, but I'm sure if he went to FSU, the Tallahassee newspapers/blogs would bring it up. If he went to USC, the same thing would happen in Los Angeles. Etc.

c) Rodriguez even hinted in his press conference that this might have been a situation of Dorsey being "in the wrong place at the wrong time." It's a legitimate concern to have about recruits, because sometimes "wrong place, wrong time" ends up being a trend. I'm not saying it will be with Dorsey, but you can't expect Michigan fans to revel in his physical talents and ignore his checkered past.

Aequitas

February 4th, 2010 at 10:58 AM ^

What's with the irrelevant shot at Bob Jones?

I'm going to call utter BS on your second comment. Players don't get the same Drew Sharp type scrutiny at an FSU or USC. That's the dumbest thing I've read on here all week. Just look inside this state if you're still unsure about how the media can have a double standard in their coverage of different programs.

I'm personally sick and tired of people coming on here, taking shots at, or questioning the character of, coaches, players or recruits and then hiding behind the "it's my right to ask whatever questions I want, but don't question why I'm asking this".

Sure it is. But getting your panties all in a bunch and bemoaning the death of "independent thought" because a posters' motives are second-guessed for second-guessing coaches is pretty freaking lame.

If you can dish out the questions, you have to be able to handle some yourself.

bacon

February 4th, 2010 at 8:12 AM ^

It's not like he spent 180 days in jail between his freshman and sophomore seasons. There are plenty of programs that recruit guys with shadier records than this. If Dorsey had actually been convicted of something, then there'd be a problem. But as it stands, you can't deny someone of an opportunity in America just because they were accused of a crime and acquitted.

I think that the biggest double standard here is that members of the Freep have been accused of Dolphin punching, have never been acquitted, and yet still have jobs there.

Magnus

February 4th, 2010 at 10:52 AM ^

I'll let you figure it out for yourself about the BJU comment.

Drew Sharp is a giant tool, and I'm not saying every school/city has a columnist or two or three who's devoted to the hometown team's demise. But to pretend that Michigan players get scrutinezed but that it doesn't happen anywhere else is ignorant.

The difference between the OP's comments and some of the respondents' comments is that the OP was ASKING. He wasn't making accusations or passing judgment, and he wasn't trying to "stir things up" or ruin the kid's day in the sun, like he's been accused of doing in this thread. Why can't a guy ask a question about something that's being addressed in the mainstream media without being accused of somehow undermining the success of the program?

Aequitas

February 4th, 2010 at 11:24 AM ^

and still can't figure out the "Reply" feature?

Drew Sharp "ASKS" questions. Jim Carty "ASKS" questions. To suggest that asking a loaded question can't "stir things up" or "ruin the kid's day" is asinine.

"But to pretend that Michigan players get scrutinezed but that it doesn't happen anywhere else is ignorant."

This is an exaggeration and you know it. Read what I said again. For the record, I've never seen one person post on here that Michigan is the only school that get's scrutinized. But they do get more scrutiny than most schools, and it seems to most of us, that a lot of it is undo. This thread doesn't do much to disprove that.

You toss in little insinuations and OT-opinions in much of what you post on here and if someone disagrees, they're trying to squelch "independent thought".

Come on, Magnus. The OP was stirring the pot just like Sharp, Carty and the AA News folks used to when they were "simply asking a question".

Magnus

February 4th, 2010 at 12:20 PM ^

You're welcome to your opinion.

For the record, my work computer gets messed up for some reason when I use the REPLY button.

Have a nice day.

LostFrost00

February 4th, 2010 at 2:21 PM ^

Maybe Dorsey heard about this also... Either way, nice timing on the switch.

"Profootballtalk.com's Mike Florio reports the Bills will hire University of Florida defensive coordinator George Edwards for the same position in Buffalo. The Bills have confirmed the report. It was just under three weeks ago that Edwards left his post as Dolphins linebackers coach to head up the Gators' defense. Since 1998, Edwards has also served as a successful linebackers coach with the Cowboys, Redskins, and Browns. It was in Dallas that he worked with head coach Chan Gailey. In his first experience as a coordinator, Edwards indicated that he will start out with a "3-4" scheme."