Would Ann Arbor accept Todd Graham?
With the rumors of the Brandon's impending removal starting to get downright frothy, the CC talk becomes even more likely.
One candidate that's getting a lot of attention is Todd Graham. He's got a great track record, though some question his loyalty after a one-year stint at Pitt. But my question has a lot more to do with culture...could a guy who sounds like Graham and says things like this in the locker room (following the hail mary win over USC):
The good Lord blessed us. Let me tell you something: Give the glory where it should be. There's no doubt in my mind.
A bad haircut, a thick southern accent, and giving the glory to God after a win...would Michigan embrace this man? I am not passing judgment on him--I'm in favor of Graham being considered. I'm just curious to read what the board thinks.
Video in comments.
October 15th, 2014 at 3:15 PM ^
You can't honestly be arguing that ASU is a better job than Michigan. That's just no rational.
October 15th, 2014 at 4:42 PM ^
Our last two coaching searches indicate that the J. Ira and Nicki Harris Family Head Football Coach at the University of Michigan is a less desirable job than we want it to be.
October 16th, 2014 at 3:05 AM ^
tell me how they indicate that
because we hired a coach from a BCS bound team that was a field goal away from playing for the national championship... after the coach from Rutgers waffled a half dozen times and ended up begging for the job before we politely turned him down?
because the coach of Stanford decided to take a once in a lifetime shot at the NFL without even having to buy a new house?
because we didn't cave to pressure and hire scumbag Les Miles just so we could all say WOOO LOOK AT US WE HIRED AN ESSEEESEE NATTY CHAMP WINNER?
because we limited our candidate pool by firing our coach in January after hot names like Al Golden, Randy Edsall and Will Muschamp were off the table and intentionally limited our pool to guys with Michigan ties?
And oh, btw, what caliber of coach SHOULD a job like Michigan command? Nebraska hired an NFL flameout and replaced him with a coordinator. Before lucking into Saban, Alabama was turned down by Rich Rod and their previous coach had been an NFL position coach. Ohio State lucked into Urban Meyer and before that had been turned down by a pre-Joey Harrington Mike Bellotti and settled for an FCS coach. USC hired Paul Hackett, a flameout at Pitt, replaced him with NFL burnout Pete Carroll, replaced him with walking punchline Lane Kiffin and replaced him Steve Sarkisian, a man whose tenure at Washington was best described as "bowl eligable". Notre Dame hired an NFL coordinator to replace a coach who'd had two top 25 seasons before coming to South Bend.
Our fanbase isn't just delusional about the desirability of the Michigan job, they're delusional about what kind of people actually get head coaching positions at traditional powers. It's not Nick Saban, Urban Meyer or bust, that's for damn sure.
October 15th, 2014 at 7:31 PM ^
The M job is more prestegious and has probably (but arguably) a higher ceiling. The ASU job is significantly easier.
Each pro in M's favor is offset by con. Advantage M: prestige, tradition, stadium size, national recruiting appeal. Advantage ASU: weather, supportive media/fans, local recruiting base, academic obstacles, better conference
I don't think an M coach would jump ship to ASU (though Bill Freider did, it was a while ago) and I don't think an ASU coach would jump ship to UM. The jobs are on par with each other. That said, an individual's preference may break what is otherwise a tie due to weather, family, or fame.
In Graham's case - I see no reason to draw him to Ann Arbor. He has a better situation there right now and there's no reason for him to take on a higher level of difficulty in AA and leave sunny AZ. The only reason I can think of is $. And with how much we are going to be paying Brandon and Hoke to not work here, I don't know that MIchigan will elect the outpay route. Michigan's not the only school with a lot of football revenue right now.
October 15th, 2014 at 2:35 PM ^
I would hope so. He has turned around ASU, which is not an easy task in the loaded Pac-12. When he took over, ASU was awful (hadnt gone to a bowl game in three years) and one of the most penalized teams in the country.,..Now, ASU is competing for Pac-12 championships against schools with more money, prestige, recruiting and fan support. I watch ASU every week and TG is more than good enough to bust skulls in the BIG
October 15th, 2014 at 2:36 PM ^
Todd Graham will not be considered and that's all I have to say about that.
October 15th, 2014 at 2:36 PM ^
I was in Pittsburgh the year Todd Graham (now known in the Steel City as "Fraud Graham") coached the Panthers and fled. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to reject the guy without delving into stereotypes of accent and religion.
It wasn't just that he pulled a one-and-done in Pittsburgh, he lied to everyone, including administrators, players and recruits, along the way, and wrapped it up by leaving the AD standing on his doorstep when rumors made their way into the news and questions required answers. Then he texted the team a quicck goodbye on his way to Arizona.
Once at ASU, he gave what was essentially the same speech he gave when he got to Pittsburgh, a great to do about the school being a dream job, integrity, yadda yadda.
Maybe not as well known in Michigan, but go to a Pitt fansite and ask them their opinions about Graham. I guarantee you, faith and folksy mannerisms will not be in the top ten list of negative things you hear.
October 15th, 2014 at 2:45 PM ^
Probably not the most graceful exit on the planet but you cant blame a guy for leaving Pitt for Arizona. Lets be real, whens the last time you heard of a coach leaving a program for greener pastsures and the old fan base throwing him a going away party. They are always going to be salty, both players, fans and alumni. Ask SDSU about that
October 15th, 2014 at 2:53 PM ^
I wouldn't contest that, but as a counter argument, it is believed (at least by the locals) that Paul Chryst received inquiries about the Wisconsin job after his first year and had the opportunity to take it. With that in mind, Pitt fans were resigned, and couldn't really fault him (being a Madison local/lifer). The story has it he stayed because he understood Pitt would completely unravel if he lleft, and he felt an obligation to build up the program before he moved on and upwards.
Not groundbreaking stuff, again, just context. I do think most coaches feel an obligation to stay in a program for longer than a year. I don't even think Graham was much of a cultural fit, so perhaps it was for the best. I would draw a distinction between Hoke taking a job he was clear from the onset that he always wanted and would take and Graham, though, largely for the other, oh, we'll call them flourishes.
October 15th, 2014 at 3:17 PM ^
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October 15th, 2014 at 4:46 PM ^
when he left Knoxville for Los Angeles????
October 15th, 2014 at 2:55 PM ^
He apparently did the same thing to Tulsa. One time I can overlook, but twice?
October 15th, 2014 at 2:58 PM ^
I believe he was at Tulsa longer, but he was certainly one-and-done at Rice and Pitt. His departure from Pitt was used against him in recruiting with some success at ASU, at least initially, although I assume his extending tenure and winning ways will have silenced most of that. Of course, the more he moves around, the more some of that negativity will resurface.
October 15th, 2014 at 3:18 PM ^
A lot of good coaches "job hop" so I dont think it matters one iota. Saban once left Toledo after 1 year. Butch Kelly moved every 3 years thru CMU, Cincy. Brian Kelly did the same. Urbz moved after 2 years from BG and Utah. Etc
The nature of his departures from Rice and Pitt are the issue. Not that he moved. He was at Tulsa for 7 of 8 years, first 3 as a DC then he left to be the HC at Rice. The HC job opened within a year at Tulsa so he went back there for 4 years. Then he did all he could do at Tulsa as a HC with a record identical to Sumlin at Houston (same division of same conference) and moved on to Pittt.
Like others have said, winning solves a lot of off the field things. He didnt handle his departure from Rice and Pitt well. That doesnt reflect on how he'd do his job at UM. The issue would be does he plan to leave in 4-5 years for the NFL or a job like Bama. If he did it would tell me he has done great things at UM; we have not had a coach considered by another program or the NFL since Bo in the early 80s. He would be running out of stops left to go to after UM, there are not too many jobs from there considered an upgrade.
I respect the fact some people have issues with how he left jobs but his "negatives" are very different then even a guy like Miles who allegadly had some shady things going down at OK State - his issues are not of a cheating nature in football, just being a very career driven person and being more about him than most coaches; the same criticism many levied at Brian Kelly when his name was bandied about during previous searches ("It would be all about Brian Kelly, not Michigan.")
October 15th, 2014 at 3:33 PM ^
I don't disagree in any particular. I think, though, that the difference between Graham and the other coaches you listed is slightly more than an issue of bad etiquette in the manner of his departure. That is to say, nobody blames a coach for moving up the ladder as a buisness decision (or at least, not too loud or for too long). I think the difference is, it's expected a coach on the rise leaves the program in better condition than when he inherited it.
Most of the coaches you listed remained for multiple years, or in Brian Kelly's case, which is illuminating, for three, which is ample time to make your bones and to improve the school's situation for the next guy. The difference between one year and three can be dramatic, but I'm not trying to make that case, per se. Obviously Rice was better off, in a sense, than when he first came there.
Pitt, on the other hand, actually suffered from his year-long tenure. And that, I think, is more the issue. I think I made the comparison to Chryst, somewhere in all this, who had the opportunity to leave and did not. At a minimu, whether it was the focus of his decision or not, he had to be aware that if HE left after a year, he would be the fourth Panthers coach to depart (willingly or not) in a three year span, and a program already on the brink would probably have collapsed in a fairly definitive manner. I think the fact that he remained reflects well on him, and he has done a great deal to restore the Panthers roster and on-the-field product to, if not exactly the heights of football, then at least out of the gutter.
October 15th, 2014 at 5:52 PM ^
I meant Rice.
October 15th, 2014 at 2:37 PM ^
Also worth noting, he is a defensive coach. His OC, who is fantastic, is Mike Norvell. A young gun but as talented and as creative as its gets....Honestly, this debate is likely in jest, I doubt he leaves ASU for Michigan
October 15th, 2014 at 2:42 PM ^
He's a Texas native, who seems most at home coaching and recruiting in that region, so you may be right. On the other hand, never underestimate a freebooting mentality. He might come to Michigan if the price is right, and to climb the ladder of school prestige. In that regard, though, he would be a flight risk as soon as a better, or perhaps even equitable, job opened down south.
October 15th, 2014 at 2:42 PM ^
October 15th, 2014 at 2:43 PM ^
I would hope that everyone learned the culture lesson a few years ago really, but it seems like Graham is in a good spot at ASU given that he signed an extension, so I don't know that he would even consider it right now. To be fair, he did good things at Tulsa and is doing good things at ASU right now (he even got Rice to a bowl game in his one year there), but I don't know if Michigan would quite go down the road of under-the-radar names this time around. Graham just doesn't fall in the pool of names that I think would be Plan A in Ann Arbor.
October 15th, 2014 at 3:17 PM ^
The fact that Todd Graham or really any coached signed an extension means nothing, other than maybe that school is afraid of losing him.
October 15th, 2014 at 2:45 PM ^
John Beilein is an extremely religious man. I read an interview somewhere where he said that he goes to church almost every day during his lunch break at various places around Ann Arbor. However, he does not speak very openly about it so people don't make a big deal (also he's John Beilein and awesome in so many ways that people aren't looking for things to dislike about him). I don't think someone's faith should be an issue, but UM students/fans do like to get up in arms about things.
October 15th, 2014 at 3:46 PM ^
and i've never noticed any aspect of beilein's religion in any game broadcasts. i think that is kind of the point the op is making--there are many different kinds of religious people, and ann arbor isn't full of the proselytizing types (except for the dudes who stand on the buckets with the microphones on the diag).
October 15th, 2014 at 4:15 PM ^
John Beilein is God.
October 15th, 2014 at 2:45 PM ^
Speaking for godless, liberal, wine-sipping former Ann Aborites: yes.
This has been said before, but bears repeating: Bo was not a Renaissance man. But he revived a wayward program.
October 15th, 2014 at 2:48 PM ^
I'll add this too, but just for context: he did face some of the same problems Rich Rod did trying to take the Panthers from a pro team to a spread team, including the tempo-fatigue we became familiar with. The pro-style linemen he inherited would wear down under the fast tempo, and their play would unravel in the latter stages of the game. Much the same with the defense, if the the offense couldn't remain on the field.
Naturally, that's a self-correcting problem over time: the players become more accustomed to the tempo as time goes by, especially as new recruits selected for the system come up. It didn't make for a pretty sight over the course of one season, though, especially given how it ended.
October 15th, 2014 at 2:50 PM ^
I can think of one man with a "thick" southern accent who did very well here. His accent was so thick that he couldn't even pronounce Michigan correctly.
As for the religion stuff, It wouldn't be the first time somebody in athletics gave the glory to God after a win. The play is called a "Hail Mary" after all.
October 15th, 2014 at 2:50 PM ^
But it has next to nothing to do with accent/religion.
October 15th, 2014 at 2:55 PM ^
Would this be his first address to the team?
TODD GRAHAM: Sons of Michigan! I am Todd Graham.
YOUNG RECRUIT: Todd Graham is seven feet tall!
TODD GRAHAM: Yes, I've heard. Recruits 5-stars by the hundreds. And if HE were here, he'd consume the Spartans and Buckeyes with fireballs from his eyes, and bolts of lightning from his arse.
TODD GRAHAM: I *am* Todd Graham! And I see a whole team of Wolverines, here in defiance of the media and the odds. You've come to play as future champions... and champions you are. What will you do for that championship? Will you fight?
VETERAN: Fight? Against Narduzzi's defense?
TODD GRAHAM: Aye, fight and you may suffer broken bones. Mail it in, and you'll not so much as be bruised... at least a while. And dying in your beds, many years from now, would you be willin' to trade ALL the days, from this day to that, for one chance, just one chance, to come back here and tell the Spartans and Buckeyes that they may break our bones, but they'll never take... OUR CHAMPIONSHIP!
TODD GRAHAM: A' Sgioba! A' Sgioba! A' Sgioba!
["The Team!"]
October 15th, 2014 at 3:00 PM ^
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October 15th, 2014 at 3:02 PM ^
How easily will the fanbase accept back Jim Harbaugh? Scroll down for the answer
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So easy
October 15th, 2014 at 3:02 PM ^
I've done some thinking on the subject the past few weeks and I do think Graham would bring some of the same issues as RR culturally. But so would a guy like Gary Patterson. I did a diary this week on various CCs on a number of measures and RR and TG are almost identical in their strengths and weaknesses (RR was graded post WVA)
|
|
Todd Graham | |||
| Total | 40 | |||
| Proven NCAA Big 5 HC Success | 4 | |||
| Proven NCAA Mid Tier HC success | 5 | |||
| Proven non NCAA HC success | 0 | |||
| Proven Coordinator success | 3 | |||
| Midwest Footprint/HS Coach Ties | 2 | |||
| Recruiting | 3 | |||
| Ability to Develop Players | 5 | |||
| Chances of Accepting Job | 2 | |||
| Chances of Sticking Long Term | 3 | |||
| Demeanor | 5 | |||
| "Cultural" Fit | 2 | |||
| Age | 5 | |||
| Receny Bias / "Hot Candidate" | 4 | |||
| Layer of Dirt or Past Bad Vibes | -3 |
| Rich Rod | |
| Total | 41 |
| Proven NCAA Big 5 HC Success | 0 |
| Proven NCAA Mid Tier HC success | 5 |
| Proven non NCAA HC success | 0 |
| Proven Coordinator success | 4 |
| Midwest Footprint/HS Coach Ties | 2 |
| Recruiting | 3 |
| Ability to Develop Players | 5 |
| Chances of Accepting Job | 3 |
| Chances of Sticking Long Term | 4 |
| Demeanor | 4 |
| "Cultural" Fit | 2 |
| Age | 5 |
| Receny Bias / "Hot Candidate" | 4 |
| Layer of Dirt or Past Bad Vibes | 0 |
October 15th, 2014 at 3:14 PM ^
From Pittsburgh is way too accessible for fans to grab.
October 15th, 2014 at 3:14 PM ^
I can't imagine any reasonable person having a problem with a religious coach. I am suspicious of someone who thinks their deity intervenes on behalf of their football team, as if somehow their team prayed harder, better, or cosmically deserved it more.
October 15th, 2014 at 3:39 PM ^
I agree that a reasonable person should not have a problem with a religious coach, or a coach who is not a believer. It should be immaterial.
However, if the coach is proselytizing, many might have an issue with that. It is one thing to believe, and another to use your position to impose those religious beliefs on your players. Especially at a state-supported public school. The easiest way to appreciate this is to imagine that you are a Jew, Muslim or Buddhist on the team, and the coach is acting as an evangelical.
I don't know enough about Todd Graham to know whether he uses his position to try to convert players, but if so I could see plenty of people having a legitimate issue with that. If not, his religion is his own business, part of who he is, and should be a non-issue.
October 15th, 2014 at 3:40 PM ^
a religious person and a person who emphasizes religion in their job that has nothing to do with religion. it would definitely rub me and i'm sure many other ann arbor fans/students a certain way to hear the head football coach proselytize.
October 15th, 2014 at 3:26 PM ^
Reason #1. I follow college football in an amateur kind of way and I had to googlehim because I had no idea who you were talking about (thanks for assuming you were using a household name in your OP)
Reason #2: He is not a Harbaugh
October 15th, 2014 at 3:29 PM ^
October 15th, 2014 at 3:31 PM ^
Why are people negging the crap out of the OP? He asks a valid question, and the comments indicating that the OP is on to something/it's a consideration in response aren't getting negged to oblivion. Perhaps I'm missing something(?). As of this writing, it's -13 to +2 in voting. Doesn't make a lot of sense, to say the least. The OP poses an interesting and valid question and one which is ripe for discussion in light of what happened with RR at a minimum.
October 15th, 2014 at 3:34 PM ^
is all about supporting different religions to an extent--as long as you keep it personal and to yourself, then it's definitely welcomed. beilein's model of faith seems to come to mind. but i do think that a very outward expression and vocal emphasis on religion will rub many the wrong way. ann arbor is religiously "tolerant" in the literal sense of the word.
October 15th, 2014 at 3:42 PM ^
he is an asshat. I couldn't care less what a guy sounds or looks like. I'd take Rocky Dennis in a heart beat if he could field a team that would kick ass and take names.
The players at Pitt hated the guy and were thrilled when he left.
October 15th, 2014 at 3:44 PM ^
Lets wait until the season ends to try and asses coaching. I'm 98-percent certain that, barring off field issues, Brady Hoke will finish the season. His team's performance will decide his future.
October 15th, 2014 at 3:53 PM ^
October 15th, 2014 at 4:06 PM ^
who is he talking to? us fans can do whatever the hell we want, why wouldn't we baselessly speculate about who the next coach will be? it's fun and let's us think on a brighter day in the future.
October 15th, 2014 at 3:45 PM ^
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October 15th, 2014 at 3:47 PM ^
October 15th, 2014 at 3:49 PM ^
Mike Stoops than Graham, and I want nothing to do with Mike Stoops.
October 15th, 2014 at 3:53 PM ^
October 15th, 2014 at 3:54 PM ^
October 15th, 2014 at 4:01 PM ^
Bottom line is that I'd welcome him with open arms.