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Worst three years ever!

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May 27th, 2011 at 8:45 AM
#1
blueheron
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Joined: 03/26/2009
MGoPoints: 2303
Worst three years ever!

Worst three years ever!

Is that headline sufficiently catchy?

Yesterday I decided to view the past three years -- and more -- through the NFL draft. CBS Sportsline has data back to 1967, so we can look at Elliot through Carr. (None of RichRod's guys have reached the draft stage.) I found that the number of picks for the most recent three-year stretch ('09 to '11, covering the '08 to '10 seasons), seven, is the lowest since the one ending in 1986, when there were six. Only one other interval (interestingly, the one concluding in 1985) is worse (five picks). The one ending in 1970 also had seven.

Considering only high (rounds one to three) draftees, the last three years look even worse. There were two high picks (Graham in 1st round, Mouton in 2nd round). This has never happened in the "modern" (Bo and beyond) era. The other low points, by that measure, were three straight (ones ending in the years '89, '90, and '91) series around the Bo-to-Mo transition and a couple in the '70s.

Here are the details: https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AkEbjH02DNzxdG9LN2V...

Next to the first draftee for each year you'll see four columns: * Total number of picks for that year. * Total number of picks for that year and the two prior years. * Total number of "high" picks for that year. * Total number of "high" picks for that year and the two prior years.

Old-timers (and everyone else), be sure to look at the high-pick numbers for the three-year intervals ending from '72 to '74. By the measure of the NFL draft (which, as I'll note later, had fewer spots back then), those were some insanely talented teams. Recruiting was arguably never better. It's worth noting that Bump Elliot should get a good chunk of the credit, since his last class would have finished in '73. Let's hope that Brady can do something similar. He's off to a good start.

Feel free to blame Rodriguez (lousy player development and retention) / Carr (cupboard management) / both for the last three years, depending on your preference. I'll step aside for the moment. :)

Note: Since the draft is currently seven rounds, I ignored all picks past that round in old drafts. I did not account for expansion (Bucs and Seahawks in the mid-'70s, Panthers and Jags sometime after that), so the numbers from (say) the early '70s, which are already impressive, should be considered in that light. (Being drafted in the first round with fewer teams is a rarer achievement.)

"..."

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May 27th, 2011 at 8:49 AM | Is it catchy? I almost threw (Score:1 Overrated)
willywill9
willywill9's picture
Joined: 09/22/2008
MGoPoints: 11256

Is it catchy? I almost threw my laptop out the window... then decided to click.  Nice one.  I was going to say "Four years... chief!"

Touchdown Michigan!

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May 27th, 2011 at 8:50 AM | Why? (Score:5 Normal)
michgoblue
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Joined: 11/16/2009
MGoPoints: 11210

Are you just bored on a slow news day? Why start. Thread that basically says "I know that this is a topic that will inflame debate - a debate that has gone on unabated for a long time and which does nothing more than increase the slowly shrinking divide between factions of a divided fanbase - but I want to discuss.



Not trying to be an ass - and I am guilty of participating in these discussions when they come up - but can't we move past the blame and look forward to our upcoming return to glory?

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May 27th, 2011 at 9:06 AM | big picture (Score:5 Normal)
Jasper
Jasper's picture
Joined: 12/30/2010
MGoPoints: 995

I'd agree that the headline is somewhat inappropriate, but read the whole post. There's some interesting historical information there.

"500 channels and nothing but cats."

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May 27th, 2011 at 9:27 AM | I don't agree (Score:5 Normal)
Mitch Cumstein
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Joined: 10/02/2009
MGoPoints: 9641

At first, based on the headline and the first paragraph I was getting ready to be pissed about a post making rash conclusions and blaming Carr.  After reading the entire post I found it to be interesting and informative.  The other aspect, obviously holds in the last three years, I wonder maybe looking at a variety of b10 teams how strong the correlation is between on field performance and players drafted.  Obviously there is a correlation, but you look at teams like S. Carolina who get players in the league but are never really special on the field.  Just thought that would be an interesting topic that is somewhat tangent to the current post.

"A flute with no holes is not a flute. A donut with no hole is a danish"

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May 28th, 2011 at 1:24 AM | I'm with you... (Score:-1 Flamebait)
Tater
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Joined: 08/13/2008
MGoPoints: 10382

I'm getting tired of pusbags who keep finding "new" ways to say the same old shit, over and over.  Maybe we should give it a number system, like ordering in an Asian restaurant.  The menu could look something like this:

#1.  It's all RR's fault.

#2.  RR was never a Michigan Man.

#3.  RR's players are too small.

#4.  WE'RE GONNA PLAY MICHIGAN FOOTBALL AGAIN!!!!!

#5.  Sure am glad we finally got a real coach now.

Etc, ad nauseum.

Anyway, maybe the trolls and casual "football fans" who continue to foster unrest among the fanbase can just "order by number" now instead of spending so much time saying the same things over and over.

Example:

#3 DERP! #4, Brah.

 

 

 

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May 27th, 2011 at 8:50 AM | um......those were carr's (Score:-1 Flamebait)
lukepanici
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Joined: 12/13/2010
MGoPoints: 232

um......those were carr's players. none of rich's guys have even graduated yet

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May 27th, 2011 at 8:59 AM | Look again. (Score:5 Normal)
1974
1974's picture
Joined: 04/17/2011
MGoPoints: 81

You might have missed this part:

"None of RichRod's guys have reached the draft stage."

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May 27th, 2011 at 9:16 AM | Stay classy, my friend. (Score:5 Normal)
Aequitas
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Joined: 09/22/2008
MGoPoints: 709

Stay classy, my friend.

"Do not disturb my circles."
 

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May 27th, 2011 at 9:40 AM | Obvious troll? (Score:-1 Flamebait)
coastal blue
Joined: 11/13/2010
MGoPoints: 1791

Come on now.

He spent all that time going back looking through the drafts and putting together that spread sheet and now he's a troll because you think it shines poorly on Lloyd Carr?

I think the new rating system has entered your thinking too much.

It's become: Downgrade everything that I don't agree with.

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May 27th, 2011 at 9:40 AM | edit (Score:3 Normal)
1974
1974's picture
Joined: 04/17/2011
MGoPoints: 81

Edit (to another post, which I can't modify): I see you're sensitive, too, based on your most recent post.

"OP posted this as a dig at Michigan's newest hall of fame coach."

WAAAAAAAH! Would you like a tissue? Seriously, read the whole thing. Look at the many awesome classes recruited by Carr. How on earth is that post a slam of Lloyd.

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May 27th, 2011 at 9:42 AM | Maybe it was a dig at Carr or (Score:3 Normal)
GoBlueInNYC
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Joined: 03/23/2010
MGoPoints: 5835

Maybe it was a dig at Carr or maybe he was pointing out an important piece of information. Given the terrible performance of the team under Rodriguez, it probably bears mentioning that the recruits themselves weren't brought here by Rodriguez. I don't think the OP is saying Carr was bad, just reminding readers that none of Rodriguez's recruits have been around long enough to have graduated/entered the draft (that is a FACT).

Or maybe everyone on the board needs to stop being so damned hyper-sensitive when it comes to any mention of their pet-favorite past coaches.

I am this close to going all Dark Blue in here.

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May 27th, 2011 at 9:49 AM | If people think I get mad when RR is insulted (Score:3 Normal)
coastal blue
Joined: 11/13/2010
MGoPoints: 1791

Just wait until they trash my true pet-favorite past coach, Gustave Ferbert.

DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT BRINGING UP HIS LACK OF A NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP. 

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May 27th, 2011 at 9:45 AM | OP good post (Score:2 Normal)
Mitch Cumstein
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Joined: 10/02/2009
MGoPoints: 9641

While I don't agree with a lot the OP has said in the past regarding Carr's last years, I think this is a good post.  It is informative and allows the reader to make their own conclusions.  Not even close to "trolling".  The posts about Carr that I hate are the completely unsubstantiated ones involving "Carr actively undermined RR", or "Carr gave up his last few years", or "RR's failures were Carr's fault b/c he didn't come out and publicly support him", also anything using the term "Carr-tel".  This OP isn't like this at all.

"A flute with no holes is not a flute. A donut with no hole is a danish"

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May 27th, 2011 at 9:37 AM | order (Score:1 Normal)
1974
1974's picture
Joined: 04/17/2011
MGoPoints: 81

Nice non sequitur.

Maybe you, Desmonlon Edwoodson, should ask Graham about Rodriguez. Here's a clue:

http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2010/09/brandon_graham_believes_ric...

But, don't reflexively respond to things that anger you. Please.

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May 27th, 2011 at 9:43 AM | God, I hope his knee gets (Score:2 Normal)
redhousewolverine
Joined: 08/17/2010
MGoPoints: 820

God, I hope his knee gets back to top-condition; he is the best guy ever and one of my favorites. Hopefully it is only peaches and gravy for him from now on.

"The unexamined life is not worth living." Socrates.

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May 27th, 2011 at 10:01 AM | I believe BG did say (Score:2 Normal)
His Dudeness
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Joined: 11/24/2008
MGoPoints: 13558

I believe BG did say something along those lines about Barwis.

He (BG) and Barwis still talk all the time and if you believe that the buck stops at RR for all the "bad" coaches then you have to also assume the buck stops at him for all of the "good" coaches as well.

Also to still put your faith in RR coming back at a time when everyone was speculating otherwise speaks volumes about how BG must have felt about RR, IMO. Tea leaves, brother.

or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.

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May 27th, 2011 at 10:15 AM | It didn't seem to stop (Score:0 Normal)
His Dudeness
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Joined: 11/24/2008
MGoPoints: 13558

It didn't seem to stop Braylon, Desmond, Toomer, etc. etc. etc.

or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.

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May 27th, 2011 at 12:00 PM | Agree 100% (Score:0 Normal)
coastal blue
Joined: 11/13/2010
MGoPoints: 1791

I admit sometimes I'm as guity as anyone else of posting irrelevant comments, but it's frustrating when people are actually making solid relevant comments and then see them negged as "flamebait" or "trolling" for no reason other than disagreement. 

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May 27th, 2011 at 12:02 PM | Welcome to the brave new (Score:-1 Normal)
His Dudeness
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Joined: 11/24/2008
MGoPoints: 13558

Welcome to the brave new Mgoworld.

or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.

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May 29th, 2011 at 4:24 AM | I just set my threshold to (Score:1)
BlueDragon
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Joined: 11/14/2010
MGoPoints: 16726

I just set my threshold to -1.  I don't even bother getting the caving to work right.

Abort, Retry, Fail?

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May 27th, 2011 at 8:51 AM | A little more analysis and (Score:5 Normal)
bdsisme
bdsisme's picture
Joined: 09/19/2010
MGoPoints: 5480

A little more analysis and some graphs and this could've been a diary.  Great work, though. Thanks!

"It would be a travesty, it would be ridiculous to all of a sudden come back and get the feeling back, get the health back, feel good again and then all of a sudden go throw some other colors on my shirt and go coach."

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May 27th, 2011 at 4:34 PM | This is what I came on to (Score:0 Overrated)
justingoblue
justingoblue's picture
Joined: 11/16/2010
MGoPoints: 10880

This is what I came on to say. Even a chart would make this a pretty high quality post, IMO.

Probably have to break it down by decade instead of coach though, judging by our (MGoWorld's) comments to the piece.

Go Blue!

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May 27th, 2011 at 9:31 AM | personally i blame the (Score:5 Normal)
redhousewolverine
Joined: 08/17/2010
MGoPoints: 820

personally i blame the penguin:

 

 

"The unexamined life is not worth living." Socrates.

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May 27th, 2011 at 9:50 AM | So the cupboard was bare when (Score:-1 Trolling)
His Dudeness
His Dudeness's picture
Joined: 11/24/2008
MGoPoints: 13558

So the cupboard was bare when RR arrived meme is proven accurate.

Well played, nameless internet poster. Well played.

or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.

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May 27th, 2011 at 3:34 PM | proof? (Score:4 Normal)
Mitch Cumstein
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Joined: 10/02/2009
MGoPoints: 9641

I'm not saying that "meme" isn't accurate, but I'm not sure this proves it.  RR could have taken over with several potential NFL draft picks that didn't develop properly to capitalize on their potential.  Not saying this is accurate either, but I don't think this post really "proves" anything.  Like he said in the OP, readers can make their own conclusions based on the facts.

"A flute with no holes is not a flute. A donut with no hole is a danish"

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May 27th, 2011 at 9:51 AM | So you're trying to tell me (Score:5 Normal)
orobs
Joined: 10/03/2010
MGoPoints: 1729

So you're trying to tell me that the that the worst 3 year span of michigan football in the modern era ALSO generated the least NFL draft picks?  No offense dude, but I could have told you that without the research...

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May 27th, 2011 at 10:28 AM | another way to think about this... (Score:3 Normal)
turd ferguson
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Joined: 12/09/2009
MGoPoints: 2924

Okay, since it seems necessary to say this kind of thing these days, I liked both Carr and Rodriguez.  (Ugh.)

It's far from perfect, but you might begin to tease apart the incoming talent vs. player development question by comparing players' rankings from the recruiting services before they arrived with their NFL draft positioning.  There are some issues there (e.g., coaches aren't necessarily trying to turn all of their players into NFL stars), but recruiting rankings probably offer a decent proxy for incoming talent while the difference between those rankings and draft outcomes probably offers a decent proxy for player development.

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May 27th, 2011 at 10:17 AM | All I have to say (Score:2 Normal)
Shondon
Shondon's picture
Joined: 02/14/2011
MGoPoints: 25

Nothing is more important than the program, no one person is bigger than the team, UofM is a family I can't believe Carr undermined the team, I can say as a UofM fan for almost 40 years I bleed blue and imho RR good coach loved the O hated the D not a good fit for UofM, and I don't think he really understood what M is about. We are a family of tough love fans ask D Morris were passionate and like a wolverine we will bite the hand that feeds.

I don't always drink but when I do... I get drunk, Stay thirsty my friends.

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May 27th, 2011 at 1:54 PM | Not surprising at all.  (Score:2)
Bobby Boucher
Bobby Boucher's picture
Joined: 05/02/2009
MGoPoints: 668

Not surprising at all.  However, I think next years draft will see things start to return to normal.

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May 27th, 2011 at 5:31 PM | Ask not what Michigan did (Score:5 Normal)
raiderblue
Joined: 01/23/2011
MGoPoints: 575

Ask not what Michigan did  for RR, but what RR did for Michigan.

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