World Cup Day 13 Open Thread
Welcome to Day 13 of the World Cup. We have the conclusion of Group C and Group D today. The highlight of today’s schedule is Uruguay and Italy, fighting for second place in Group D.
Group D:
12pm EDT
Costa Rica – England (ESPN2)
Italy – Uruguay (ESPN)
Costa Rica is improbably through to the knockout stages. England, of course, is not. Uruguay needs a win to move on whereas Italy needs only a draw due to Goal Differential.
Group C:
4pm EDT
Greece – Cote d’Ivoire (aka Ivory Coast) (ESPN2)
Japan – Columbia (ESPN)
If Cote d’Ivoire wins, they’re through to the final 16 for the first time in their history. If they draw and Japan beat Columbia by more than two goals, Japan would go through. Columbia will likely rest some of their normal starter’s as they are through into the Knockout Stage.
They should just stop the clock like virtually every other team sport.
The clock on your screen, and the one visible in the stadium, are just there as a courtesy. Official time is kept on the referee's wrist.
That may be the official explanation, but I'm sure referees let more time be wasted than they should. All the routine stoppages alone (throw-ins, corner/free kicks, fouls, substitutions, the delay after a goal is scored) - probably add up to a few minutes, and yet you see many games with only one minute of stoppage time in the first half and only 2-3 in the second.
...aren't supposed to stop the clock. The clock is stopped for goals and substitutions, for injury treatments, and whenever the referee decides to stop the clock because something is taking longer than it should.
It's not really all that unusual, is it? Rugby is like that, as is handball. You could just as plausibly argue that the clock should stop between plays in an American football game because there's nothing going on. (Which I am of course not suggesting.)
Hmm I see your point. I view everything primarily from a hockey perspective, so I've always thought the clock should only run when the ball/puck is in play.
The point is that there could be an accurate, to-the-second accounting for time in a soccer match, and there isn't. FIFA doesn't want it, and a whole lot of traditionalist fans don't want it. So it doesn't get done.
But it's obvious that the timekeeping in soccer is done, at best, approximately.
The clock is stopped for goals? I have my doubts about how consistently that's applied - especially in the first half of games. One goal can lead to 45-60 seconds being wasted before play starts again, and yet first-half stoppage time is almost never more than two minutes, barring a serious injury.
If fouls aren't automatically treated as stoppages, they certainly should be, or else you could kill a lot of time by just fouling people (or diving to draw them). I know referees take the really blatant stuff into account, but it should be automatic every foul - that would eliminate the incentive to waste time altogether.
I have no objection to the running clock itself; I just think the matter of stoppage time could be handled a little better.
The clock is not stopped for goals, only for an unduly long celebration.
I like the running clock because it means no commercial breaks. But it should definitely be more precisely handled. There should be a separate timekeeper to do it and display the extra time on the scoreboards, so it's not a mystery when the final whistle will come.
The referee's discretion on when to blow the final whistle is integral to the sport. A soccer fan would find it the grossest of injustices if the whistle blew just as someone was letting loose with a goal-bound shot.
There are two diametrically-opposed approaches to administering a sporting contest. At one extreme would be a sport like baseball, with an extensive collection of rules intended to apply to every conceivable situation, and umpires expected to apply those rules precisely in each case. Every North American sport I can think of is handled this way, if not so obsessively as baseball.
Soccer is at the other extreme. The rule book is thin and fairly vague and the intention is that the referee will use his judgment to ensure a fair contest. That's one of the reasons there's still just one referee--multiple points of view would just make it harder to hand out disciplinary actions for cumulative offenses.
Everything in soccer, except for the ball crossing the line and maybe, arguably, offsides, is a judgment call, by intention. It's part of the culture of the sport. Demanding more precision is demanding that the sport change its culture to become like what you're used to. I doubt it's interested--it's doing pretty well as it is.
It occurs to me that there's an example of a sport doing exactly this: Olympic boxing. Boxing decisions are traditionally in the hands of the judges. Olympic boxing decided to convert a judgment sport into one with precise rules of scoring--you get a point every time you land a blow to an approved region of the opponent's body with every punch counting exactly one point no matter how effective it was.
I don't know a single boxing fan that doesn't think that made a travesty of the sport.
A soccer fan would find it the grossest of injustices if the whistle blew just as someone was letting loose with a goal-bound shot.Like on Karim Benzema's final goal (waived off) against Switzerland? They're not consistent about that as it is. Today's Italy-Uruguay game didn't end at a "natural" point either - the ball was in the air after being headed by a player and suddenly the whistle blew. The whole "that's the way it's been done" doesn't do much for me. Goals used to be a judgment call and now there is technology to make it more precise. It's OK to tinker with the rules a bit here and there.
Today, the ball had been cleared and the immediate attack was over. It seemed pretty natural to me.
France/Switzerland was 5:2. I've never seen that happen if the game was still tied (although that might have been the worst-officiated game of the entire tournament, so I don't want to guess what that particular referee mght have done).
The point I'm tryint to make though is that you aren't just tinkering with the rules, you're trying to change the basic philosophy of how the sport is adminstered, making it legalistic when it very deliberately is not. The ball crossing the line is a precisely-defined case, but there are very few of those in the laws of soccer.
OK, I can meet you halfway here - I can see giving the referee discretion to let play go on in the final action of a game if there's a scoring opportunity. (That's philosophically similar to how in American football, the final play can be made after the clock hits zero, if it started before then.)
But the referee shouldn't have to double as timekeeper. Aside from final-second stuff, I'd take that role out of his hands and have a separate timekeeper keep track, and make it visible on the scoreboard so everyone knows how much time is being added. That would strongly discourage time-wasting tactics and let the referee focus on the rest of his job.
What a year he's having. Overall, a terrible match...Italy sat back for 70+ minutes expecting a draw. Uruguay kill another Giant at the World Cup. Both teams so easy to hate.
Hell yes Uruguay
ESPN talking about Suarez's biting history. What the fuck is wrong with this prick?
...he always gets his teeth into it.
It's out of control.
There is NO reason, especially during the World Cup (it would be harder for all other games) for FIFA not to review each game and hand out postmatch yellow cards like they're candy.
Eventually guys will stop flopping as much when they realize that they may miss a game or they may enter the next game already with a yellow.
I know there is somewhat of a fine line...and exaggerating can be part of every sport. But when you flat out fake it and you're caught, you get a yellow. If you get away with it, whatever, just like the law, if you get caught you pay the fine, if you don't then good for you.
They also need to review and pass out warnings as well just so guys know that there are eyes on them.
There was an interesting piece on the cannibal, Suarez, on espn.com recently:
Evidently, he bashed a referee's nose when he was a teen and it was pretty well covered up by powerful people who control soccer in Uruguay.
Good thing the Uruguayan trainer got Suarez fit in time for him to end his tournament with stupidity.
Japan:
Kawashima, Uchida, Honda, Nagatomo, Okazaki, Kagawa, Okubo, Aoyama, Konno, Hasebe (C), Yoshida
Columbia:
Ospina (c), Arias, Armero, Cuadrado, Guarin, Mejia, Balanta, Ramos, Quintero, Martinez, Valdes
Greece:
Karnezis, Maniatis, Manolas, Samaras, Kone, Karagounis (c), Salpingidis, Torosidis, Lazaros, Sokratis, Cholevas
CIV
Barry, Boka, K Toure, Kalou, Tiote, Gervinho, Drogba (c), Aurier, Y Toure, Serey, Bamba
Drogba starts as do both Toure's (even after their brother passed away a few days ago). Bony on the bench.
I just looked at the box score for ENG VS Costa Rica.
First Half: (No Events)
Did nothing really happen or is it a glitch?
Not sad to see Italy out of the World Cup but I am sad that we probably just saw Pirlo last World Cup match. An absolute legend and one of my favorite players ever.
I'm considering making a large bet on this based on the info I know. I need some group sourcing to validate my thoughts.
Ghana +177
Over 3.5 goals +155
It would appear Portugal is in pack it in mode between their record and their injuries. If they are not they need to score a boat load of goals to have any chance. Ghana has looked like the best team in the group thru the 1st 2 games. They know they need to press to get their goal differential up. Neither team seems very conservative in general.
Shouldn't Ghana be favored and is there any reason to believe this won't be one of the most wide open, highest scoring, games in the WC this year?
Massey projects only a 9.5% probability of more than 3 goals.
That's just based on prior results, of course, and it's higher because both teams go in needing to win and needing to make up goal difference. You need it to be a lot higher though.
He also projects only a 23% probability of a Ghana victory.
that I really like Columbia's color scheme
in fact, i like a few others too, like Equador and Brazil ain't bad
many blue's in S. Amer.
So um.....Go Blue!!!!!
All this action makes me want to go pickup FIFA '14 from Meijer. Can someone please advise me if it is worth picking up. Any reviews from you users?
Wow, that was some impressive passing the whole lenth of the field by the Ivory Coast. It's amazing the control these guys have on the ball while running full speed and the ball flying in from 50 yards away.
If the U.S. happens to get knocked out, I will be rooting hard for Colombia. Just because it would be interesting to see how Modern Family could work that into the script for Gloria.
I didn't expect much from this match (even with the circumstances) but it's been pretty lively. CIV really pressing but Greece is (predictably) closing down well.
Greece win and Japan tie or lose and they're through.
Japan needs a win by at least 2 goals probably and Ivory Coast to tie or lose.
Ivory Coast advances with a win, or a tie and Japan not winning by at least 2.
Can be more complicated if tiebreakers come in to play but shouldn't
Edit: Dammit wlubd you just made me waste like a minute and a half, dog.
Greece through with win unless Japan beats Colombia. Ivory Coast through with win, or with draw unless Japan beats Colombia.
was red carded in the last World Cup for a deliberate hand ball
no not really, he's the one that bites, what a douche
But it saved the game for Uruguay and Gyan missed the ensuing penalty. Uruguay ended up beating Ghana on penalties to advance.
Greatest desperation play I've ever seen in soccer.
I thought Cesare Prandelli put this team together very poorly. Rossi, Berardi and Destro were all left off the roster and the team couldn't score.
Apparently Prandelli feels the same way, because he just quit.
Take the lead...they've looked really good in the first half. Terrible turnover by CIV