World Cup Day 12 Open Thread

Submitted by skurnie on

We have come to the final match of the Group Stage for Groups A and B. Matches this week are 12pm EDT and 4pm EDT and are played simultaneously. 

 

Group B

Netherlands - Chile 12pm EDT (ESPN)

Spain - Australia 12pm EDT (ESPN2)

Spain and Australia are both eliminated. Chile and The Netherlands are tied at 6 points but the Dutch hold a one goal advantage on differential. 

 

Group A

Mexico - Croatia 4pm EDT (ESPN)

Brazil - Cameroon 4pm EDT (ESPN2)

Cameroon has been eliminated. Brazil is atop the group on Goal Differential (+2) but tied with Mexico at 4 points.

Mexico is through with a win or draw. If Croatia win, they will pass Mexico and will be into the knockout stage.

LSAClassOf2000

June 23rd, 2014 at 9:48 AM ^

To me, the timing of that tying goal is the real bummer in a way, but I am over the initial reaction that I had certainly. There are still plenty of scenarios in which we would have a decent shot of advancing anyway, so I don't see this so much as a harbinger of doom but more about how we really need to play a really good 90 minutes against Germany on Thursday. We shall see, eh?

M-Dog

June 23rd, 2014 at 12:24 PM ^

I thought I'd wake up depressed, but instead I'm energized.

Finish aside, that was a scintillating game.  We went toe-to-toe with the last two teams we played, both of whom were predicted to beat us by totally outclassing us.  That didn't happen.

We still have a fighter's chance to go through.  I'm not a park-the-bus guy, but hey, park the bus and take your chances with a tie or 1 goal loss.  It will be boring as hell, but the last two matches provided enough Group Stage excitement for me.

Just advance, baby.

 

Mr. Yost

June 23rd, 2014 at 10:04 AM ^

Only a Germany dramatic or dominating Germany win will make me feel better. Obviously that's not needed. But I'm just saying to get me back to "even" emotionally.

That said, it's not like we're out or in a bad position. So while I'm hurting because I'm a fan and I wanted to see us go through in two games and rest. And also because I literally watched guys give EVERYTHING in that game and come up 15 seconds short of a victory. I also realize that nothing is lost.

I think as we get closer to Thursday, we're more and more looking like a draw unless someone scores off a routine set piece.

I think by the 60th minute, if it's tied...there will be a friendly handshake that basically says "unless you get a breakaway or a corner...we agree to a draw if you agree to a draw."

Even if we're up 1-0 and win 1-0, it's not like Germany isn't going to go through. In order for them not to go through Ghana is going to have to make up 5 goals. That's not happening.

My last thought is this...I'm prepared for A LOT of flopping and rolling around milking the clock from both teams. May not happen (because we certainly could've done it more to preserve the win yesterday and we didn't), but I'm preparing for it. At the end of the day, not one guy on the field cares if it's a 0-0, ugly, snoozefest...they just want to continue playing after Thursday.

 

Everyone Murders

June 23rd, 2014 at 10:09 AM ^

Yesterday's game was really exhausting to watch.  I felt a bit hollow at first, but then realized that after the first goal I'd have been very happy with a tie.  Many of the things that scared me from the Ghana game did not come into play - we had good possession, nice chances, and I think generally outplayed Portugal.

Plus, we did not seem to suffer any meaningful injuries.  Dempsey limping off the pitch had me worried, but he seemed to be walking fine on the sideline and likely had been a bit cramped up in the heat.  We came out with a much-needed point, and very much control our own destiny.

With that, and with the U.S. still at (kind of - Germany has us on GD, of course) the top of the GOD after two games, I'm feeling pretty good. 

Mr. Yost

June 23rd, 2014 at 10:14 AM ^

I'm going to look at it like this...

The US and Ghana should've tied 1-1.

Germany rightfully beat the breaks off of Portugal 4-0

Germany and Ghana rightfully tied 2-2

The US should've beat Portugal 2-1

It should be:

Germany: 1-1-0 / 4 points / 6 GF / 2 GA / +4 GD

United States: 1-1-0 / 4 points / 3 GF / 2 GA / +1 GD

Ghana: 0-2-0 / 2 points / 3 GF / 3 GA / 0 GD

Portugal: 0-0-2 / 0 points / 1 GF / 6 GA / -5 GD

If I look at it like this...we're actually in a better position than what realistically we probably should be in.

I know, "keep tellin yourself that, bro." But in truth. It's not that far-fetched. Hell, if Alum96 reads this, he'll tell you that we should've lost 1-2 to Ghana (which I disagree with - but that too is not far-fetched).

So again, nothing changes. Just win. Fuck the rest. And if you can't win...fight like hell for that tie baby!

alum96

June 23rd, 2014 at 10:36 AM ^

Well I said yesterday we probably should have 4 pts but just in a different manner - 3 pts vs Portugal and 1 vs Ghana.  1-0 in soccer can be a blowout - so 1-1 vs Ghana could rightfully respect a game where the U.S. had 2 chances and buried 1, and Ghana dominated for 80 minutes.  Which was essentially what happened except we went 2/2.  Plenty of teams dominate the run of play, corners, everything and still are in a very tight game or tie.

Separately I was thinking about the OT rule and I was thinking of how hard this sport is endurance wise and it had me thinking that hockey and soccer are the only 2 sports you don't have overweight players anywhere.  Kind of tied into the athlete discussion last night as well.

It speaks to the pace of play and grueling nature of both sports.  Which is why this stupid PK is a bad solution but other than taking men off the field like hockey does, seems like the only solution.  Baseball is the complete opposite - lots of "rotund" players in a very slow pace game ...and football by nature has some very big men, some sloppy (like Nick Fairley was last year).  Basketball mostly are guys in sleek bodies except for some centers .... so I think hockey and soccer are the 2 sports you just can't get way with being portly anywhere, so I wonder if those are truly the world's best athletes (although I'd argue 90% of NBA players and 60% of NFL players are right up there)

Mr. Yost

June 23rd, 2014 at 11:03 AM ^

Sub whenever you want, but the game does not stop...you just have to run on/run off like lacrosse/field hockey/ice hockey/etc.

Same yellow card/red card rules apply.

It would be hectic for Sports Info to keep track of everyone, but again, they can do it in a bunch of other sports...and it's not like it's a line change, it'd just be 1 person on and 1 person off 99% of the time. 

 

sadeto

June 23rd, 2014 at 11:05 AM ^

One word: Ronaldo. Brazil's Ronaldo, that is. Ronaldo was always teased for his belly. 

I see your point but there are many exceptions. You cannot be grossly obese and play hockey or soccer, as you can play the line in football or pitch in baseball, but you can be moderately overweight and play a role in both. You'll be hurting in the 95th minute in Manaus and have your shifts cut in the 3rd period, but you can play a role. 

If you define athleticism in terms of endurance, as you seem to be doing, there are much, much more "athletic" sports: long distance running, cycling, even swimming. You can't even be slightly overweight and compete in any of those. 

skurnie

June 23rd, 2014 at 10:18 AM ^

Still feels like I got punched in the gut last night. 

On the other hand, the US played much better than against Ghana. We were able to keep possession and create chances. Let's hope for the draw on Thursday and we can say goodbye to the Group of Death. 

alum96

June 23rd, 2014 at 10:50 AM ^

It is all about matchups it truly is.

Ghana presses you furiously.  Chile has been playing a similar way.   If you are not technically great those type of VCU type press cause all sort of issues.  They can combine it with a good level of individual skill to boot.  (Other countries press you but once they get it, they are not super technically proficient)  And Ghana play together. Hence Ghana was a disaster matchup - worse than I imagined actually as this version of Ghana is better than 2010 and 2006.  They dictate play way more than they did in the last 2 iterations - and it wasn't due to the U.S. just being off, as we can see with what they did to Grrmany.   Of course I thought those last 2 games with Ghana we played a lot more even with them ...and lost.  This time we were badly outplayed...and won.  That's sports for you.

Meanwhile Portugal is a very skilled team but doesn't play high pressure so they give a less skilled team time.  Portugal is itself a counter attack team (that's how they are forced to play say Germany or Brazil or Dutch)... so they gave the U.S. time and the U.S. with time is competent.  You just have to avoid a few moments of brilliance with Portugal and we caught breaks with their injuries, red card, etc.  They are not very deep in terms of elite elite.

Germany is basically the U.S. with way more skill so another matchup issue but completely different than Ghana.  It is not so much pressing but just their ability to out-technical us all over the place.  They will have the same will and determination and blueprint as us, etc - it's like playing a BCS version of ourselves while we were a MAC school.

So 3 games, 3 totally different matchups.  The order also matters at times - we played Portugal at a perfect time (injuries, key red card).  We play Germany at an inopportune time because they have depth galore and our guys are going to be dragging in that 2nd half.

  If we had been draw in groups with teams like Iran, South Korea, Nigeria, Russia, Cameroon, Japan, etc - a lot of matchups would have went our way.... this was definitely the worst African matchup for us (or anyone) and I'd say right now 2nd or 3rd worse European team to face (France, Dutch).  I even think the U.S. would match up "relatively" well with Argentina right now  - they are playing like Portugal (ok... not great) but with a healthier superstar.  I'd take them right now over Germany as a 1 seed in your group.

Mr. Yost

June 23rd, 2014 at 10:26 AM ^

I want to see the US play their best game.

We got bits and pieces through qualification and the first two rounds...almost never the same thing either.

I want to see us put it together and play 100 minutes of the best soccer we can possibly play. Just to see where we're at.

Think of basketball. Michigan vs. Kentucky or even Michigan vs. Florida/Syracuse/Louisville in 2013...if you watched those games and knew the team, we seriously played the VERY best we could possible play in each of those games (now the refs screwed us in a couple of them, but we still played our best game).

I loved seeing those games because I love execution, maximum effort and maximizing your talent, if you give me those three things...I'm giving a standing O. That to me is perfection.

The U.S. hasn't had that, they gave 110% effort both games, but we've shown in areas that we can play better.

I want to see it all come together for one game and let's just let the chips fall where they may.

It's not going to be this next match because we're gassed and the circumstances say "a tie is okay."

But hopefully we make it to the knockout round and we can show the world what a "perfect" match for the U.S. truly looks like. And that doesn't mean we win 5-0. We lost two of those 4 perfect games that I mentioned, but we played as well as we could've.

Would love to see that in this World Cup.

Mr. Yost

June 23rd, 2014 at 11:31 AM ^

He's respected by the German soccer federation, but the current head coach was his assistant and doesn't like him.

Who knows if that's true, I mean, it must be...because I read it on the internet. But we'll see.

I still don't like playing for the tie because you have set pieces. It's one thing not to go full speed when the ball is in play, but set pieces are a lot harder if it's an easy ball to score on.

Also, we SUCK when we're playing "not to lose" we've been horrible at possession when we're not attacking.

Ghana took it to us for 60 minutes before finally tieing the game. We played beautifully vs. Portugal and tied it 1-1 and for 10 minutes we completely lost control of the game until we brought on Yedlin who can't help by play 200mph.

We're not a pressing team like Chile or Ghana, but we're definitely better when we're on the attack looking to score. If anything, just because it forces the other team to back off a little bit.

Also, playing for a tie puts the pressure on the defense...which is our worst unit.

If I'm Klinsman...I start a naturally conservation lineup and formation, but I want the play to be attacking and aggressive. Similar to the Portugal game. Everyone was saying we were playing for the tie in the pregame just by going off the lineup, but we were aggressive from that lineup knowing we had the help and the athletes on the back end to recover whenever Jones or Johnson or Beasley moved forward.

skurnie

June 23rd, 2014 at 10:33 AM ^

Netherlands:

Cillessen, Vlaar. De Vrij, Blind, De Jong, Janmaat, Sneijder, Robben (c), Kuyt, Lens, Wijnaldum

Chile:

Bravo (c), Mena, Isla, Silva, Sanchez, Vargas, Gutierrez, Medel, Jara, Aranguiz, Diaz

RVP is suspended on Yellow Cards...Kuyt starts at Left Wing Back. 

skurnie

June 23rd, 2014 at 11:23 AM ^

I don't think Chile are even capable to not play the pressing style. Plus, the Dutch press so high up the field with their wing backs, there will be some goals scored today. I think it'll be a good match. I thought maybe we'd see a Huntelaar start in place of RVP but guess not

skurnie

June 23rd, 2014 at 10:39 AM ^

Australia:

Ryan, Davidson, Spiranovic, Leckie, Taggart, Oar, Bozanic, Jedinak (c), McKay, McGowan, Wilkinson

Spain:

Reina, Albiol, Juanfran, Iniesta, Villa, Torres, Alonso, Ramos (c), Koke, Alba, Cazorla

Michigan Arrogance

June 23rd, 2014 at 10:40 AM ^

two teams are already eliminated and they are playing today?

 

does anyone else think there might me a better alternative to this group/pool play structure- like double elim or W/L bracket like in college baseball/softball?

something like this:

opening rounds = same as now, but NCAA baseball regional style,

followed by a double elim- style in the round of 16?

skurnie

June 23rd, 2014 at 2:00 PM ^

van Gaal making all the right decisions...starting Kuyt, who looked good, Fer and Depay come on as substitutes and both score, starting Janmaat and leaving van der Wiel off the roster...Dutch face the second place finisher in Group A.

skurnie

June 23rd, 2014 at 2:51 PM ^

Croatia:

Pletikosa, Vrsaljko, Pranjic, Perisic, Corluka, Lovren, Rakitic, Modric, Srna, Mandzukic, Olic

Mexico:

Ochoa, Rodriguez, Marquez (c), Herrera, Layun, Dos Santos, Moreno, Guardado, Peralta, Aguilar, Vazquez

skurnie

June 23rd, 2014 at 2:53 PM ^

Brazil:

Julio Cesar, Dani Alves, Thiago Silva (c), David Luiz, Marcelo, Hulk, Paulinho, Fred, Neymar, Oscar, Luiz Gustavo

Cameroon:

Itandje, Nkoulou (c), Nguemo, Moukandjo, Aboubakar, Bedimo, Choupo Moting, Mbia, Enoh, Matip, Nyom

Alex Song suspended three games and fined by FIFA.