Despite its weak offensive output, MSU has only one loss this year, mainly due to its aggressive, physical defense.
That, and a very, very crappy schedule.
Despite its weak offensive output, MSU has only one loss this year, mainly due to its aggressive, physical defense.
That, and a very, very crappy schedule.
Man up and play the damn game!
My thoughts exactly...let's not be the fanbase that makes excuses before the game is even played. It's going to be a tough game, so we just need to hang 40+ on them and not worry about the refs.
Sparty always tries to injure Michigan's QB. If they succeed in injuring Devin Gardner, it could be a day of sucktitude. If they don't, I think Michigan wins this game by 10.
I'm not at all a complain about officiating guy (except in the 2005 Alamo Bowl and all college hockey games), but I think the OP makes a fair point. The way that the pass coverage is officiated will be a huge factor in who wins this game. If I'm Hoke & co., I'm getting on the refs early (maybe even now) and often.
in that Staee's DB's are physical, but I think most of the time it is just particularly shocking to see corners like that in this conference that blanket receivers the way that they do. There were a couple of legit PI calls against ND but at least two of them were marginal at best and one was a flat out bad call. I think they have been flagged appropriately when there has been early or too much contact. but for the most part they are just really, really good.
A pre-emptive "that was pass-interference" thread more than a week before the game. Weak. We are gonna kick Sparty's ass in one week and it will have nothing to do with when or if a flag was thrown.
Why do some people call them 'Staee'?
I just do it because they do.
are a man's man. I can see your testicles dragging across the floor from here, and I feel afraid, very afraid.
Honestly, when you have to make vague assertions about manhood on the internet. . . you may be suffering from some compensatory problems.
I hate that old yarn. Fine, be a feminist. But if you really want to call him a stupid rube who's pissed about having a small dick, don't dance around it, just do it.
I don't know if I've seen this quality of dialogue on here in a long long time, but I do enjoy it. That's not sarcasm, either.
is the real test BILG. Do you, or have you ever, owned and driver a Hummer?
too, still not to the Hummer degree though.
DG needs to be very careful when running the ball. MSU will be after him. Getting him out of the game will pretty much doom Michigan. Forcing a freshman QB to beat MSU with his arm (Michigan will not be able to run the ball) will be a very difficult task. MSU will score at least 14 points against our porous defense and that probably will be enough with Morris in there.
Because I don't think this post would be much different if it was about basketball instead of football. Clutch, grab & goon it up.
I use it all the time while asking for sex. Surprisingly, it does not often work, but that does not stop me.
I think this might be the first time I've seen aynone blaming the refs for a loss before the opening kickoff.
Check the eleven warriors message board before an OSU hoops game that Ted Valentine is officiating.
That's really specific. I'm impressed.
What Don said.
Even if the game is called fairly, you can bet people will still be unhappy with every call MSU gets, legitimate or not.
As fans, it is important for Michigan's success that we focus on the bye week before getting too ahead of ourselves...
We're not the ones playing though.
Rico: I'm sure Hansel's heard of a bye week, he's a male model.
Space Coyore: Uh, earth to Rico, I was making a joke.
Rico: Uh, Earth to coyote, duh, okay I knew that!
Coyote: Uh earth to Rico, I'm not so sure you did cuz you were all 'well I'm sure he's heard of a bye week' like you *didn't* know it was a joke!
There are times that I wish StatSheet kept call statistics on football referees in the NCAA like they do for basketball, but I am still not sure what it would tell you.
Not that it really means much, but TeamRankings does keep stats on penalties per game - Michigan State rings in with 7.5 penalties on average this year, up from 5.8 in 2012. What would be interesting to track is the mix of those penalties.
I would rather not rely on the attentiveness of the referees, but it would be interesting to go back through MSU's last several seasons and get an idea of which calls are more prevalent in their games.
Sadly no they won't. I'm guessing you missed the announcement yesterday from the B1G officially sanctioning an unfairly called game against Michigan. Delaney was quoted as saying "in my family you try and HELP your little brother and the B1G is my "family" so I've instructed the refs to do what they can do to ensure an MSU win on Saturday.
Sucks I know but what can you do?
they can whine and cheat all they want.
If we win then "Yes" and if we lose then "No" to your question.
This game has "loss" written all over it. So much so, that I believe the coaching staff will open up the playbook and we will score a ton of points. Accordingly, we will win easily. Does that make sense?
I highly doubt it. Of course I thought Northwestern would win the division. So what the hell do I know.
I smell a troll
Who? Me? I think not.
This thread hurts my brain.
Or at the very least to register his unhappiness with the refs during the game if something that should have been called, wasn't. Probably won't happen...Hoke will stand there stoically like a statue.
Can't we have a website where you can't post twice within a few seconds?
Probably not but I'm not as worried as I thought I would be. 28 points. 1 turnover. If we score 28 points and have 1 turnover or less I believe we win the game. Our defense is made to play against MSU. I think it will be the toughest defense they've seen this year ( yeah Iowa, whatever) because of the rivalry. I think they fall flat and I think we are able to pass and open up a run game eventually. Call me crazy, I think we win.
I believe 17-21 will win us the game if we only have 1 turnover.
Yeah that's a big key.
If we only have one turnover, I believe we win.
However, I think many are underestimating the points MSU will put up. This is their season. No way they stay with the mean and score 14 or 17 points. I bet Michigan puts up 35, but MSU is right there in the high 20's.
Michigan is 33rd in the nation in fewest penalties (36 year to date, 5.14 per game). They're in good company, with Alabama tied at 33rd in penalties.
Michigan State is ranked 89th in the nation in fewest penalties (47 year to date, 6.71 per game). Their neighbor at 89th is Notre Dame, the team they lost to.
Is it hard to predict what happens when UM comes to EL? No.
The last two MSU home games read like the refs got paid off after the USF season high:
WMU, 6 penalties 75 yards
USF 9 penalties, 94 yards
YSU 2 penalities 19 yards
@ND 8 penalties, 86 yards
@Iowa 8 penalties, 70 yadrs
Purdon't, 2 penalties, 14 yards
In short, I would expect a lot of helmet twisting, uncalled pass interference and adult onset blindness for the refs.
Still, MSU is not the worst. Get a load of Nebraska at 97th in the nation in fewest penalties with 43 year to date after just 6 games.
If we count on or need penalties. It's at Sparty we need to beat the team and the refs just like they would have to at our house.
Blaming the refs before the game even starts is pretty cool.
Yes you should know, your fanbase does it whenever you play a hoops game that Ted Valentine is officiating.
We at least wait until after!
About as cool as trolling on the internet.
I've been here longer than you have.
Play the game.
This is a fair post. Narduzzi's (Dantonio's under Tressel really) strategy has always been to play ultra aggressive with his DB's, and expect that not every penalty will be called. If you think about it, a ref is not going to throw a flag every single play. Therefore, if you interfere on every single passing play (like they did against ND), the ref is only going to call some percentage of those interferences penalties. This then allows you to stack the box without worrying about getting beat deep. Great strategy if you ask me.
In that ND game, at least 3 of the PI calls against MSU were in fact, terrible calls.
I disagree. I also saw a lot of interfering that was not called that game. From what I gleaned, MSU"s DB's are very skilled at interfering in manenrs that are difficult for the officials to see. They seem to know where the officials are on the field, etc. They also use their bodies to push a lot when the ball is in the air and try to act like they were just looking for the ball (incidental contact), when they clearly knew where the ND receiver was.
You realize you are describing what many would call (in a vacuum) excellent, crafty defensive back play, right? Or, alternately, "NFL cornerback play?". Hell, I WANT our DB's to do exactly what you describe- that's the defensive equivalent of offensive ninja fakes and body control. It's part of the game, and a mental/technique one at that.
I tend to agree with you on those calls. I thought they were pretty well defended. I've seen the Sparty DBs play too physical and get away with quite a bit but that game was one where I thought they were doing a damn good job.
As much as I hate whining about the refs... I agree with this. Refs, being human, will bend to social pressure -- they know they aren't expected to call every foul that occurs. Holding in the trenches is a good example of this, as some say it occurs nearly every down.
The question is, if a coach is banking on an unseen limit to the amount of PI the refs will be willing to call based on their subjective expectation of normalcy, is that a legit strategy? I am thinking yes. If the Spartin's can be skilled enough to get away with consistently bending the rules, then we ought to be able to counteract the effect with equivalent skill. Tit for tat.
Probably not. Something about 60 minutes of unnecessary roughness.
in addition to that 67th ranked strength of schedule of course.
In agreement with the masses. There are so many no calls a game. We really only see or hear about the most blatant and seemingly important ones. I chalk it up to a wash at the end of the game. If you needed that 1 more play to win and there is a no call, I'm sorry not quite enough was done as a whole and it wasn't deserved.
Good grief, those bitching know what this thread is going to entail so if you've nothing to add but griping about the subject, like, go take a walk?!
It's a fair question, one I've been pondering lately as well. I could see the referees calling a decent game in the beginning, ignoring the crowd and trying to set a fairness(?) tone. I can also see things being close in the second half and a eventually seein a call or two biting us in the ass, something like a drive killer where a WR gets mugged but no call or a terrible spot occuring on a 3rd/4th and short.
I really think Borges calls an aggressive game and we are able to pass the ball deep; then set up some decent runs. I think it is a 7-10 point game most of the way and we close it out late and win. MSU has a great defense, I feel pretty good about our chances.
Fair question. MSU has made a strategy out of toeing the line between aggressive play and fouling. They seem to rely on a certain level of leeway from the referees. Usually it works out for them. Against ND, it burned them. It's a risk that any physical secondary assumes.
In fact they hold a lot on both sides of the ball. That's how they play ball, and it is effective. Michigan can still win even if MSU pushes the boundaries of a rule that is notoriously difficult to call straight.
The fact that this thread exists is a pretty sad commentary of our fan base. Refs are relevant in most games. Lets wait until after the game to judge their performance and the effect it had on the game. It may be an issue but let's not complain about it prematurely.
The referees are pretty far down on my list of concerns for the game. Number 1 - Borges play calling. Number 2 - Turnovers.
If Borges calls a decent game and we win the turnover battle, I think it's a 7-10 point victory.
Refereeing is somewhere down on the list after stopping their run game and making Cook move his feet.
Refereeing is also below varying the snap count timing and being prepared for the double A-gap blitz.
No game is called by the letter of the law. There will always be hand fighting and things of that nature. As long as it is called the same both ways, that's really all you can hope for. If the refs are allowing aggressive defensive play, it is up to our defenders to adjust.
There is a reason sports have rules. You are supposed to follow them. This "adjust to the refs" crap is nonsense. Our running game is a huge weakness for us, whereas our passing game is quite capable of being uber-lethal as evidenced by last Saturday. Nobody should be allowed to tilt the game to their advantage by fudging the rules. And yet I am absolutely certain that that is MSU's primary gameplan at this point.
It is particularly important for the refs to enforce rules that are intended to protect the players. Many of the things MSU did (particularly Gholston and that DB) were intended to injure our players, particularly Denard. Those kinds of penalties have to be called and, when it is something that endangers a player, the culprit thrown out of the game.
I think the referees will absolutely be favoring the Sparties. Quite often, the referees tend to favor the home team in rivalry games.
I watched the ND-MSU game and every single PI call was warrented under the interpretation of the rules for as long as I can remember. In fact, it seemed like the refs started getting reluctant to keep calling it (simply because they were calling it so much) even though the MSU dbs kept on blatantly holding/interfering the ND receivers.
I was apalled that Dantonio actually had the nerve to go and bitch about it. Which calls didn't they like? Is their argument basically that no one could possibly commit that many pass interference penalties in a game? Even if some of them had been questionable calls, they committed enough actual PI penalties that there's no way they should get the benefit of the doubt for any 50/50 situation.
To be honest it's probably very difficult for any ref to keep up with the amount of penalties MSU commits during any given game. If they're missing calls, it's probably because they're overwhelmed!
there is a school of thought, shared by brighter people than these--including much of the Detroit professional press--that MSU fouls so regulary that the refs can only call a small fraction of their actual INfractions, that this gives them a certain edge that is otherwise unobtainable on the field of play.
I tend to share that view.
But these manly men are going to prove just how very manly they are by dissing your very legitimate query. Because a manly man does not complain, he just. . . something something.
This place didn't used to be so lame.
EDIT: Is that Arthur Miller and MM, btw? Cool photo. I think that Miller wrote for the Daily too, right? I know he won a Hopwood.
Making excuses ahead of time isn't lame?
He's asking a question, sweet boy
Yes, and so is implying impropriety in officiating without any quantitative proof. The refs will make some good calls and some bad calls and none of us are probably going to be objective about what we consider which is which.
Acting like Michigan has never benefited from bad officiating in the past is being pretty disingenuous.
and yes, Arthur M did write for the Daily too. [Historical note: on New Years Day 1937 he went to Flint for the Daily to cover the original UAW sit-down strike against GM.]
"including much of the Detroit professional press"
Are you talking about the same profressional press that reported on UM concerving practice violations that lead to probation?
And, BTW, your defense might want to consider being a little more aggressive. It wouldn't hurt.
Even if we wanted to entertain this I don't exactly get what you want from the board. If you want to dig up statistics on the officiating crew's outings featuring Michigan State and then other teams as control cases, then go for it. Other than that, analysis will be ready pending the final whistle of the game. Did you just want to make this point and you decided to frame it as a question to make it a board topic?
It's in EL - remember Spartan Bob? No way they call it fair.
Basketball. Last year.
Before the MSU game in EL? Yeah, we lost to Sparty by a zillion points on the road because the refs had it in for us.
As long as we keep our composure, and have 1 or no turnovers, it won't matter. Don't get me wrong it's gonna be a tough ass game but staee has no O.
quit worrying about the officiating and play the game. States reputation and history for penalties probably hurts them in the long run.
quit worrying about the officiating and play the game.
It would be fun but I don't think many of us are equipped to do so nor would coaches and the players accept our sorry asses. Really though, we're fans, we're supposed to worry about this sh*t; I'm quite sure the players aren't worrying about this notion so you're correct in that regard.
States reputation and history for penalties probably hurts them in the long run.
And here, does it really, though? They've been doing it for how long and they've been a fairly successful team the past 5+ years so how has it negatively affected them? Anyway, when they foul so much that officials can't throw flags EVERY time, it's benefiting them right there and then, and that's what matters.
...and I question whether it is, simple solution is for UM to express that concern to the B1G.
I think it could be a factor, but I can't imagine it being the key factor.
But ask away...
would you ever think UM is going to get the benefit of the doubt when it comes to officiating in East Lansing?
I agree that is just defense.
I think the key determinant in Michigan's upcoming game at Michigan State will be whether the refs fairly call MSU penalties, especially for pass interference/defensive holding and roughing the passer.
This is the "key determinant"? And here I thought it would be Al Borges coming up with an effective gameplan for what I am sure is going to be an extremely aggressive MSU defensive attack.
If we ever decide to create a Hall of "Shame" for bad/stupid threads, I'd like to nominate this one.
There's always a couple calls in every game where each teams' fans get all upset about something. Nothing is ever "fair" to us fanatics.
Couldn't resist jumping down the rabbit hole to see if this was an honest question.
Alas, feeding the troll once again.
we wish we had MSU's defensive backfield--and, if so, we'd be concerned that the refs were going to call nickel-and-dime pass interferences on us. Geezus, adjust and play the game the way it is being called.
I wish if a thread got enough downvotes it would just disappear.
this has been going on all year. The receivers are constantly being tackled before the ball gets there. I saw a picture of a receiver being tackled just before the ball got there just showing pics of the game. The only reason it was shown was because it was a picture of Gallon scoring yet another TD in the Indiana game if my memory serves me right. If they catch the ball PI is generally not called if they drop it because of the defender getting there too soon it gets called most of the time but cetainly not all the time. Go Blue
I understand that this team is simply not talented enough to beat the Spartans straight up, but the sky is not falling.
You can rest assured I have sent Jim Delaney a strongly worded letter, along with a, shall we say, "financial incentive", to ensure that the vast majority of calls favor our great university.
So, I encourage you to tune into ABC next Saturday to watch our Wolverines gain yet another victory over Michigan State.
Can you give Brian an incentive to get the Defensive UFR up sooner so we can read about football while you are at it?
Thanks Mr. Ross, your efforts are appreciated.
That said, the "aggressive" State coaches will no doubt be more than willing to take a 15-yard unsportsmanlike conduct call in order to injure Devin Gardner, just as Rush did in the 2011 game, hitting Robinson and then slamming him to the ground, all while the play was long dead (or earlier, of course, when Gholston nearly snapped Robinson's neck and paralyzed him, or earlier....). Sure, Rush managed to get called for it, but in return Michigan's best player was no longer on the field.
Also, could you see about funneling some money to this blog to help protect us against Sparty trollers? Some of them are pretty crafty.
just because Steve has endowed his alma mater beyond the means of any sparty troll is no reason to go casting aspertions about his character. Quit being such a kid. Honestly I get this sort of behavior from my little brother, which I kind of expect but you sir are not my little brother.
... ahh... what has Mike Hart done but exposed the raw underside of a deep rooted CFB truth.