I am not too worried about whatever contract is or is not in place since anything is negotiable. However this is just a broader question of substituting a team that makes more sense given our recruiting base now that talk of a team like Alabama is swirling again. Yes, UM/ND will get national attention, but why not swap that for FSU/Miami (that Miami) considering our extensive recruiting push into Florida? I would be fine with 4 or 6 out of 10 years to play ND as I feel that game can be bit limiting in regards to allowing other scheduling options. Not sure what the rest of the board thinks, but I would much rather have Bama in Dallas instead of ND on the road in 2012 (assuming there would be an actual choice).
Why would we not want to drop ND from the schedule more often?
the contract is up in 2012 or something. we are only going to play sparingly after that.
the conference realignment is making things challenging to do scheduling.
Under the current formulation of the contract, we are schedule to play ND until 2017. We then take a 2 year break and resume playing them in 2020. There was also a 20 year extension to the current contract announced in 2007, but Brandon recently (lae Spring, I think) confimed that the extension was never signed.
nuliffies the first two right? The contract was never signed so we really aren't scheduled to play ND until 2017. That may have been the plan but it seems as though that plan may change.
It does not seam as if that plan will change. Brandon said late this Spring that he and his counterpart at ND will be sitting down to work out the details of the extension, but that we will be playing ND for the foreseeable future. Also, we are schedule with them through 2020, with the exception of the 2 year break.
I think the nine game Big 10 schedule might hurt Notre Dame pretty badly. Michigan, Purdue, MSU, PSU, Indiana, and Illinois all play ND with varying degrees of regularity. Problem is, ND needs home and home series and the Big 10 teams need home games for revenue and tomato cans for bowl eligibility. Something is going to give, and its going to be ND's strength of schedule.
I don't think the nine-game conference season will end up happening. There are too many downsides.
When is the last time Notre Dame played Illionis, Penn State, or Indiana? I understand Mich, State, and Purdue but that statement doesn't really make sense. With all due respect.
PSU has played ND on occasion. They haven't as much since they joined the Big Ten, but they recently did a home-and-home.
Illinois: not since 1968
Indiana: not since 1991, and that was the only time since 1958
Penn State: every year from 1980-1992. Then PSU joined the Big Ten for football in 1993, and dropped ND from the schedule. They've played only twice since, in a home-and-home in 2006-2007.
(as always, data from Stassen)
They had their chance at the B10 and turned it down. All they get now is scraps.
I'd love to see the entire B10/11/12 stop scheduling ND... For years they've played B10 teams yet kept their "independence." Since they didn't join the B10 (and it looks like they won't), I'd love for the conference, as a whole, to tell ND to go pound sand...
I with you on this one. Even though I consider ND to be UM's second rival (behind OSU, obivously, and ahead of MSU, if you even want to call that a rivalry), I'm pretty sick of their nonsense. I say leave them to swing in the breeze, playing schedules made up of MAC and MWC teams until they suck it up and join a conference.
Ditto--ND is, without a question, M's second biggest rival. I grew up in Chicago, and ND gets a lot of love around there--so much so, that I would often find myself wondering whether I hate ND more than tOSU. I love the rivalry (I've been to 5 M/ND games, and M has won 4 of them), the history, and everything about UM vs. ND. That said, it makes me sick how ND flaunts their "independence" and "heritage," when all of it is enabled by playing 5-6 games a year against teams from the B10 and Pac10. Like I said previously, if they didn't want to make the jump and play with the big boys year in and year out, they can go back to playing the service academies, BC, BYU, and Northwest Directional State Tech University for all I care...eff them.
Can we, as a fan base, admit that MSU is a rival? A third rival, definitely. But still a rival.
The "We won't even admit there's a rivalry" thing is childish (and going out of your way to say there isn't one is more obsessive than acknowledging that there is).
I definitely consider it rivalry, personally. My thoughts on MSU are this: it sucks to lose to them more than a regular loss, but it isn't any better to beat them than a regular win. The past couple of seasons (and Dantonio) have kind of changed that last part for me. But I can certainly see how some people don't care any more about them than they do any other random team.
You spelled "To hell with" wrong.
"To hell with Notre Dame", I heard, Screw Notre Dame
When is ND's NBC contract up?
They have a contract through the 2015 season
Isn't ND pretty much f*cked at that point? Without Kelly returning to glory is there anyway NBC-ND reupps?
Its still Notre Dame, and no matter the football they play on the field people will watch. Notre Dame would still be of value to NBC
Do the ND games do good numbers. For whatever reason I assume that at this point they do more or less the same ratings as any decent college football game and NBC could bid on whatever conference and show there games prob for less money than they pay ND. Does ND still get a ratings bump?
Tradition probably plays a big factor in this as well. It's not nearly as big a tradition as OSU, and I can't say I'd hate to see us not play them EVERY year, but there's a lot of history in that game that I don't think we should just throw away and there are probably a lot of fans that would be really angry if we dropped them from our schedule on a consistent basis.
Mich-ND is a great rivalry - probably our second strongest (sorry, Sparty, 2 wins does not make you a rival). I love watching the two winningest programs in college fb square off. It is also a great recruiting game.
If ND turns their program around (and assuming that we continue to do so, as well), then this is a top notch game. If not, then it is an early season tune up with a hell of a lot more excitement than playing EMU or Bowling Green.
That does not mean that we cannot play other good out of conference games. We are playing Alabama in 2012. Why not schedule a home and home with FSU or Miami (that Miami) in 2013/14? How about looking to the west coast for a series with USC or Oregon? These would all be exciting options. But, they can be done in addition to ND, not instead of ND.
I personally hate how crappy the out of conference schedules have become (not just for us, but across all of college FB). I understand opening against a warm-up team, but after that get on with the season and play real teams.
While our rivalry with MSU is definitely not quite as important as our rivalry with OSU, many consider it to be more important than ND.
I think that the divide is between in-state and out-of-state Michigan fans. In-state fans tend to view MSU as our second most important rivalry. Makes sense, since you have to live amongst Sparty fans and hear their crap. Out-of-state fans rarely encounter MSU fans, so this is not an issue and we view ND as a larger rival. Obviously, as an out-of-state fan, I still consider MSU to be our third biggest rival.
Perhaps I am over-generalizing, but this is what I have found.
In state fans tend to give more weight to the Sparty rivalry. Understandable, since we all know how annoying they are and you guys hear it from them constantly. At the same time, I find that out of students and fans don't care as much about this rivalry, and often rate ND above it. Especially in Chicago it definitely matters more.
In Ohio it's OSU > ND > MSU.
Not many Michigan fans will go for dropping ND, that live in a 30 mile radius of ND stadium. Only 2 games i gotta see, ND and OSU.
I like the series with notre dame....I also like the fact that every yr this game is on abc or nbc....
You have to play games nationally televised when you can. Yes michigan is on the bigten network and nationally anyone with it can see michigan. But you also need more then espn/ as well...
ABC does regional coverage and rarely national unless it is a night game. Nbc for nd is just national...so a game with nd is national.....how many recruits got to see a great game against nd that could flip back and forth and see that game if they weren't seeing something else.....
Plus I still say the vast majority of fans that want to drop nd from the schedule havent' been to the game at the bighouse. These programs bring so much to the table, it is an awesome game!
That schools who would drop Notre Dame on their traditional schedules would hurt them almost as much as a loss would at those respected schools We dont know what the NCAA landscape is going to look like in ten years but ND cant be following in the correct direction.
I'll give you that we can't predict what the NCAA landscape will be in 10 years, I'd suggest that any potential loss of presige/SOS in M/MSU/PU/IU not playing ND will be more than made up for in the B10's addition of Nebraska.
play ND every other year:
2010: @ ND
2013: @ ND
2016: @ ND
play them 2 of every 3 years:
2011: @ ND
2014: @ ND
2017: @ ND
Looking at your second scenario, you do know that the 2010 ND game already occured - in ND Stadium.
Just being nit-picky, but I like your second scenario - 2 out of 3 would be cool - would keep the rivalry going, and the year off ever three years would make us that much more psyched to play them.
yeah, got it backwards
Why would we play FSU or Miami instead of trying to play Florida? It seems to me that if the main consideration is for recruiting in Florida purposes then a win over Florida would be much more valuable than a win over the other two. No?
(I'm still smarting over the last time Michigan played FSU and Deion Sanders returned an INT for a touchdown on like the first play of the game).
Florida pretty much doesn't play out of conference games outside of the state of Florida. I would love to beat them again (and listed them in my own post), but they are a pipe dream.
We did play them when Deion was there (in 1986), and won.
I think you're thinking of Terrell Buckley.
Er...sorry. Too slow. Got stuck watching WolverineHistorian videos...again.
you had to bring that one up, didn't you.
Florida does not play random schools OOC. They've got an SEC slate and FSU each year. They are going to pad the record with weak schools outside of the those nine games.
They've also played Miami a few times recently, although they don't really qualify as a random OOC school being an in-state rival.
Order of preference:
1. ND + occasional home and home or neutral site game
2. ND OR very occasional replacement neutral site or home and home against a historical power (Florida, Georgia, USC, etc)
3. ND only
I'd rather just play ND all the time if they would ever return to glory, but that's still up in the air at this point.
I realize that strength of schedule can hurt title chances, but a one-loss Michigan team that played ND + good OOC opponent + conference title game + eight conference games should leapfrog any other one loss team, even the SEC. The SEC route of getting a one loss team into the title game with schedule strength seems to have worked well for them.
I enjoy difficult ooc schedules. They used to be better when I started watching as a kid in the 80's. Mid 90's they went downhill.
For example 1988
Game 1 - lost to ND 19-17. ND finished #1 as undefeated NC.
Game 2 - lost to Miami 31-30. Miami finished #2 with only loss in regular season to #1 ND, also by a 31-30 score.
Game 3 was a victory over "cupcake" Wake Forest before the 8 game conference schedule, blemished only by a 17-17 tie with Iowa.
Despite the 0-2 start, Rose Bowl champion Michigan finished 9-2-1, and #4 in the final polls.
Old man remembering the good old days moment is now over.
That was also when the conference was weaker. You'll notice that our OOC schedules softened shortly after PSU joined the conference. Bo himself argued for softer schedules at that point.
I wouldn't necessarily say UM's non-conference schedule got that much weaker in the mid to late 90's. They played Colorado in 96 and 97 when Colorado was still a real good program. They played Syracuse in 98 and 99. Virginia one year. Boston College a couple of years. UCLA one year. Now, most of these teams weren't in the top 10 but they were solid programs.
I'd like to see Michigan play them less often and pursue a schedule similar to OSU. One marquee name + two tomato cans sounds about right, provided they can schedule the home part of the home and home in the years the Big 10 schedules five away games.
- It is somewhat of a traditional rivalry.
- They quite possibly will indeed eventually return to glory. In the same way we didn't drop OSU when Cooper was coach and the Buckeyes couldn't buy a win, and OSU isn't dropping us now, I don't think that you drop ND just for a more "competitive" game with a Florida team.
- They are the closest (geographically) big school with a major program not in the Big 10. This means the fan bases overlap a lot (as they do with OSU & MSU.) Part of the reason that PSU and Iowa aren't quite as big of rivals is because their fan base (and student base) don't overlap as much.
- ND is much closer culturally and academically to UM than Alabama, or FSU, or UF. I think they have a great campus and great traditions.
- If we were going to play someone out of conference, I think Stanford and Texas would be a better fit. And Tennessee wouldn't be out of reach in terms of distance.
I still don't get why we don't put Boise State on the schedule, since they're willing ot play anyone, anywhere. Also think that Cincinnati would consider going that route.
The most I can say with ND is that I could see taking them off once every five years, so four years on, one year off, four years on, one year off. But I like having them on our schedule.
Cooper gets a bad rap because his record against UM was so bad. He only had one losing season at OSU - his first year 1988. The next 4 years he pretty much went about 8-4 every year. From 1993 through 1998 he went 62-12-1, won the Rose and Sugar Bowls, won 3 Big Ten titles and finished in second the other 3 years.
Don't want to start another thread but I just saw the football team board the buses don't know for what I'm pumped again
I would assume they're going to the team hotel (where they spend the Friday night before a home game).
Thats probably true because they all had a duffle bag. I tried snapping a photo but trafic was moving and i didnt get a good shot
i love beating up on ND, but in all honesty, I think we should stay away from playing them every year unless they pull their heads out of their ass and FINALLY join the big ten and end up in our division. otherwise, a couple-3 times a decade sounds good.
The regulars on the ND blogging sites are adamant against joining the Big 10. They cite the financial and recruting advantages of being a "national" program versus a regional one. There is no reason we should accommodate them. I'm certain we can find other quality programs that would schedule home and home series with us. If these were major southern schools, it would aid our recruiting.
Keep them on the schedule as long as possible. It's too much fun beating the Domers every year.
...there is really no more benefit to playing ND. All of the benefit goes to ND at this point. Michigan now plays in a tough enough conference that, considering the Big Ten Championship game, the computer will be very friendly to them if they win the conference. Playiing ND is a chance to lose a high-profile game in an area that they already recruit.
As much as I don't like the Alabama game because they are already playing ND that year, there is more benefit to playing in Florida or Texas than there is in playing ND. I think the Big Ten teams should all tell ND to take a hike. If they don't want to be in the Big Ten, then they don't need to play four Big Ten teams a year.
Keep ND on the schedule. We are supposed to be the best, so why not actually play tough teams if that is the case:
With 8-game conference schedule:
8 Big Ten, 4 home games
1 ND , Home or Away
1 Big other Name, Away or Home (so away when ND is home, etc)
2 Other home games
So, 7 home games per year. Schedule a cupcake in the bye week and you have your 8th home game if you REALLY need it.
I like playing ND. It's one of the three most important games on the schedule. I don't mind the occasional hiatus in the series, but I'd like to play them most of the time (like eight years out of 10). The only change I really want to see is to have it flipped so that we're not playing both ND and OSU on the road in the same year. Our ticketholders should get to see one of the two each year.