Our class is still better.
Why We Should Not Be Worried About Ohio's Recruiting Class
I say these stars dont mean nothing unless they get the right person to develope them
Just ask Florida State
Just don't ask Lou Holtz, unless you want to get slobbered on.
And don't forget Notre Dame.
as proven many times, most recently by Mathlete, recruiting great does in fact usually = great teams. Exceptions prove the rule.
Or Michigan State..
Is running back really a position of great need? Fitz still has a year or two, plus Rawls who the coaches were high on and Hayes who was a highly regarded recruit in his own right.
Why is everybody sleeping on Rawls? That kid runs angry and with some serious power. I wanted Dunn as much as anybody else but he's not a program maker or breaker. I think Rawls can be every bit the player that Dunn could have been if he hadn't decided to play in a spread offense.
i dont disagree with you, but what did we have on Toussaint before he became Fitzkreig?
I think RB is one of those positions where we shouldnt get too excited about a prospect and we shouldnt get too nervous when it appears there is no succesor.
Im optimistic that out o line will be able to open up hole for whomever is the RB
Isn't that all we have on Dunn too?
I don't think people are necessarily sleeping on Rawls; no one really knows if he will be good or not. We burned his redshirt for a dozen garbage time carries in which he looked good, but so did Cox in his garbage time carries. We really don't know about how good he might be. He wasn't highly rated and I feel that RBs are a little easier to scout, since the transition to the next level of play tends to be easier for RBs. Getting a highly rated Dunn who would fit an I-form running game more would have been awesome, especially considering Toussaint could be a flight risk if he plays as well as he did the second half of the season. Doesn't he have a young child? If he were to get a sniff of the NFL he might take it. If he were to leave then it is Hayes, Rawls, Drake Johnson, Houma, or a freshman RB who needs to be the guy. Right now none of them are ready to go.
Missing out on Dunn hurt us, but I'm pretty high on Drake Johnson. He won't see playing time early, but with our current rb depth chart we'll be alright. Houma is also a guy most people seem to be forgetting about. I don't know if it's been decided that he's going to be a fullback in the system, but when they're both upperclassmen I think they'll form a very solid backfield. That being said, please God, let us land Ty Isaac for 2013.
Yeah I don't really feel we had a "hole" per se with running back. Sure, it would have been nice to get Dunn, but I'm actually pretty happy we didn't. I like the set-up we have now with Fitz as our go-to man, Smith as a solid 3rd down back, and Rawls/Hayes waiting in the wings to take over their respective positions.
We already have a pretty big stable when it comes to running backs, probably around 5-6 on scholarship, and Drake Johnson coming in next year as well. Besides, this just leaves more scholarships for position players that we'll need, like another desperately needed wideout or corner.
I agree to some extent. with matchings this close - I think it is going to come down to two things.
1) Developing talent - an underdeveloped 5 star is no better than a great coach working wonders with 3 stars
2) Coaching on the field - Can Hoke outcoach Meyer?
Maybe 3 things - team cohesion also. And we will be 2nd to none in team cohesion.
Am I missing anything?
You bring up a good point of team cohesion. I think this is extremely underrated, especially in terms of defense. An example would be how at the beginning of the season, Jake Ryan would come crashing down on the line, would get sucked inside, and would get beat to the corner on the outside run. Logic probably told him "I have a wide open path so I'm going to make this play." However, there was a stark contrast in the Sugar Bowl, as I saw Jake stick to his assignment, stayed back, and kept the ball carrier from bouncing outside. Does he always get the glory of the tackle? No. But when he sticks to his assignment, along with the other 10 guys on D, the whole unit benefits.
While I may be a bit young to recall the true talent OSU had in the 90's, many of my older cohorts at work (in Columbus) talk about how on paper, OSU should have beaten Mich plenty of times in the Cooper era. But they took note how the players never played as a team, only as individuals, and Michigan capitalized on that.
Jake Ryan was a 3-star.
They're good in the aggregate, not in the individual player, and a sample size of like 3 players at any position is not sufficient to be like "we're screwed, or we're in awesome shape."
the spread doesn't work in the Big Ten. Urban Meyer will have 3 disappointing seasons before getting fired, then OSU will try to get a defensive-minded coach that understands the Big Ten. Probably Mark Dantonio.
Not a chance. Meyer will have great success. Hoke will have great success. And the UM/OSU rivalry will be one of the greatest again in College football.
I think we are fooling ourselves if we keep saying the spread doesn't work in the Big Ten. OSU will be dangerous in two years (once they matter again) - but so will we.
Did you just hear some sort of whooshing sound going by your head?
He's indoors with the windows closed.
woops. I didn't read it carefully. In my defense, I have heard more than one UM fan make this argument and I think they are delusion.
I think a lot depends on how "spread" is defined. What we'll see out of Meyer at OSU is probably some variant of the spread ... but nothing like RR tried to implement here. But if having players of sufficient size for the Big 10, coupled with an emphasis on speed and a quarterback who's mobile enough to make plays can be called "the spread" then it'll work in the Big 10.
Just imagine if Hoke/Mattison had had full-sized players this year. 14-0 national champs for sure.
The spread can absolutely work in the B1G. You just need a very strong balance between devotion to offense and defense. Urban Meyer may be an offensive guy, but he balanced it out with our current defensive demigod Greg Mattison for 3 years, who's defense absolutely humiliated Troy Smith and the "potent" Buckeye offense in the '07 Title Game. Meanwhile, Leak and Tebow made the Ohio D look like idiots all night.
And no, Ted Ginn Jr. getting injured can't be used as an excuse for why they lost that game.
I have to believe Meyer will be just fine. He's proven that he can beat Big Ten teams, excluding Michigan, and to be honest, I want him to do well except when he's playing us. I still hate Ohio, but as we've seen, it doesn't do the rivalry or the conference any good to have one of its flagship programs down in the dumps. We need Ohio to be good, and vice versa. Besides, it makes for matchups that are that much more epic and meaningful when gametime comes.
I long for the days of top 5 or 10 matchups, with the winner playing for a Rose Bowl or a National Title.
But winning one national championship is kind of a big deal...
Bo had zero, Lloyd had one, and they are rightfully considered legendary coaches.
After seeing how much our defense improved in one year, because of a coaching change. I am excited as to what our coaching staff will do with these new recruits.
why we shouldn't be worried: Greg Mattison.
that is all.
We had a very successful season and they're coming off a losing one.
Now I know it's Urban and Ohio State and all that jazz, but it's a recruiting fact that results factor into recruiting the next season. This also excites me given Hoke put together such a dynamite class after 3 years of the worst football Michigan has ever seen. What's he capable of coming off a BCS bowl victory?
Well, we're averaging 5.0 stars for 2013 so far. I guess I could settle for keeping that going.
I wasn't worried until you said that...
Just remember, while it totally sucks that OSU has such a great class after what they did, we have an equally great class (especially considering who we still lead for). At the end of the recruiting process, we will have the two best recruiting classes in the B1G by a mile.
The B1G is well on its way back to the Big 2, Little 10. While that isn't as good as Michigan dominating, it's a hell of a lot better than where we've been for the last decade or so. I would love to demolish OSU every year, but another 10 year war will be great for both programs. Keep it in perspective, this is still a fantastic recruiting year.
Ohio and Michigan are in the top 5 this year. The next highest B10 team ... Purdue at 30. Nebraska, Wisconsin, MSU - all under Purdue (for now, I know). Still that says the chasm is widening again in terms of talent. But again, it all depends on how that talent develops.
Imagine what the hell Danny Hope could do if he had a 10 win season. Not that this is likely any time soon (though he can tell recruits he beat Ohio this past year...).
My only concern is in the trenches. Games are won & lost on the lines and I've seen too many stingy defensive lines from OSU stop our running game despite top offensive lineman on our side of the ball. All things being equal a strong D-line seems to win the battle against an equally strong O-line. I'm still very happy where we are, we had a great class, but the combo of Spence, Washington, Pittman, and Schutt are gonna be a handful.
It goes both ways.
If their talented DL will be able to stifle our 5-star laden OL, then our DL (with 3 DL coaches, mind you) will be able to do at least as well against their comparably talented OL.
Although I guess scheme enters into this equation, as well. If our strategy turns into "have great OL, run right at the defense" it might work worse than Meyer's spread under these circumstances.
Stop worrying about 17 years old kids, when 50% won't pan out 3 years from now anyway.
Plus this is Michigan fergodsakes
I prefer the character of our kids
Amen. That has become more important to me over the years, witnessing scandals and misconduct. I want as little as possible of that at Michigan.
I've said in other post about the subject, Florida started dropping off almost immediately, when Dan Mullen and Charlie Strong left. Now Florida benefitted from winning 2 MNCs in three years and that helped Urb pull in strong classes in his last couple of years. But the success on the field didn't match up to the talent in the locker room and Muschamp has realized this almost immediately. I think alot of the kids that have committed so quickly to tsiO, did it because they think MNCs are guaranteed. They might be a little surprised when Urb is suddenly experiencing chest pains 3 years from now.
By NSD, we will be ranked higher, I am pretty sure.
Second, we should never worry about their players...I am only concerned about our players.
Urban Meyer is not going to punish his kids for wrongdoings. He might "punish them". There is a difference.
1: everybody believes their own thoughts to be logical.
2: those are very solid points.
Urban Meyer was notorious for relying on recruiting ratings to do his scouting for him. At Florida that lead him to go hard after many recruits that were highly rated, but did not quite fit his system. He has only been the Buckeyes head coach for 2 months now, there is only so much film he could of watched in that time, especially with how much he has been on the road. He maybe recruiting great athlethes right now, but until he proves that they are the right athlethes for him and his system (Dunn comes to mind here), I am not going to lose any sleep over it.
Especially when Brady, Mattison, and Borges are targeting the type of the players they want, and most importantly these players are all high character young men. With the type of work ethic they have, I just feel like they have a better chance to outperform (as compared to underpeform or meet) their ranking. I am looking forward to this next generdation of Michigan Men getting on campus and making an impact.
I remember Urban Meyer gunned for him pretty hard when Moody was trying to transfer out of USC. Moody just never lived up to his hype, but I think Urban has always wanted to experiment with a prototypical big back. Urban Meyer is truly an offensive pioneer; he's always looking to tweak his spread offense to become more efficient.
This post is terrible
Le'Veon Bell was a two star.... Depth is great, but stars are overrated
We shouldn't worry about tOsu recruits:
"WERE MICHIGAN FOR GODS SAKE"
that thinks Urban is lucky or that Hoke is a better coach, I say just look at what Urban did at Utah and Florida. The dude can flat out coach, and combining the (current) #1 class in the B1G with that makes me really nervous (especially, because in our last 2 games, our D was terrible against OSU and our O was terrible against VT).
this will be a fun ten years or more.
Recruiting will always be in Ohio's favor since there's much more talent in the state along with them not having any in-state competition. The Big 10 is a much better conference with both schools running on full power, and The Game will be even that much better now that both schools are heralding top talent.
They do have in-state competition. It is us.
Why be worried about this current OSU class more than the past OSU classes? Their recruits are always top notch. If they didn't have great talent they wouldn't be Ohio and if they sucked that wouldn't be good for Michigan either. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'd rather they bring in a lot of talent. It makes the game that much better.
What is the problem here? Would everyone prefer that we played Harvard every game? Why should we be afraid of an elite Ohio State team? As a football fan this is fantastic. We see so many crappy teams every year. Getting to see a heavy weight title fight every year in person sounds amazing. Do we not like great football games? This makes no sense, seeing as everyone loves being nostalgic about the ten year war. Guess how that happened? This is how.
I can't wait to see what this board comes up with leading up to the game with Alabama.
I'm with you just to be clear. I posted this as a response to all the people I've seen this week being so pissed about Ohio's recruiting success. I wasn't worried before and I'm not now.
I'm not worried because I expect OSU to have a great class every year.
Why do people act like they are just coming to this realization? Did you not expect kids to continue to want to go to Ohio?
What were your expectations with Ohio State? Stealing Penn State's recruits isn't exactly surprising when they didn't have a coach and have all that other stuff going on?
We're likely to end up with a top-5 class if we get 3 of these 5 guys we're aiming for. Chill.
They can throw out all those great players, all those great backs, but there's going to be only ONE team in the conference that will play together as a team. (Think someone said something like that round these parts, no?)
We're ready. Come and get us.
Reason number one not to worry about Ohio's recruiting class:
also when urban came in a lot fo the recruits were already taken, so they were just taking the best recruits available, not neccessarily the ones that fit their system the best. all of michigans recruits mesh, fit into the system well, and are all pretty good friends, yet our recruiting classes are both the same in terms of ranking. so i think our class is better.
Sounds like you are already worried, because people who aren't worried don't think this way. Keep in mind this is Urbans first class as well, it is only going to go up.
Don't think what way? About future matchups? Sports are about matchups. Looking at how our personnel stacks up against theirs does not demonstrate fear or worry. I was trying to pose an argument for why we shouldn't be worried to the people saying it's unfair how Ohio gets no punishment and gets the best coach in the country and a top recruiting class. Most of the other posters in the thread have given good arguments for this as well. How does explaining your lack of worry demonstrate that you are in fact worried?
Because the best offense is a good defense.
Ohio always recruits well. This is hardly a new development in the CFB universe. I'm more interested in seeing how they adjust to a new offensive system with the TE/H-back hybrid players and lots of optionball. Plus the D was shaky last year.
Im not worried because...This Is Michigan
Doesn't take much research if you frequent this Michigan blog. Every Big10 recruiting class is posted on the front page...
Why I'm not worried? It's one recruiting class and I don't care a rip about what other people are doing, only the players we get. For instance, we have the #1 OL, #1 LB recruiting classes coming in. Next year we have arguably the nations best QB signed and most think he's better than any QB in the '12 class.
2nd, I have NO confidence Urb will be around to see this class graduate. The guy is a head case.
They should be worrying about us.
Also remember M's recruiting ranking will almost certainly move upward, assuming at least a couple more 4-stars (and one 5, perhaps) sign by NSD.
Wow you really are just an asshole huh? Do you feel cool insulting people on the internet? For all you know I could be a 12 year old whose interest in Michigan is now dwindling because of the fanbase being a huge dick to him on the best Michigan board around. It's a comparison meant to elicit conversation, and judging from the fact that your post is now on the second page of responses, it did just that. Will all of the guys be on the field at the same time? No. Will many of them be on at the same time as upperclassmen? Absolutely. What exactly is a good post to you? There's no point to this blog if not to discuss these types of things, especially in the offseason, and posts like mine are not what tarnish the board, but posts like yours.
It's fine that you think it doesn't make sense. But you put up 4 posts in here that all did nothing but to make people feel stupid. You haven't brought any insight. I asked in the OP, do you think this is a valid argument? Some people said no, but they provided a reason for it. And you didn't answer my question about what you think IS a good thread. I don't have thin skin at all, my feelings are not hurt, but your posts have brought nothing to the conversation other than hostility.
It's ignorant to say that the spread doesn't work in the Big Ten when Northwestern runs it well.
Because Ohio St is going to get good players no matter what?
I don't know why people worry about other teams' recruiting. That is far out of Michigan's contorl. If we beat OSU for a prospect straight up, they're probably going to get another good one in that one's spot. Same if they beat us for a recruit. When was the last time OSU didn't have good players?
The last time Joe Bauserman was on the field?
people are too concerned with player's high school rankings, I think that attaining talent is important, but I beleive that it is more important how you develop that talent.
...the rivalry and the B1G are at their best when both recruit and compete at a high level. I traveled up for "The Game" and eventhough I was elated we won, it sucked that buckeye fans weren't truly crushed and expected to lose and were surprised by their ability to compete. I want them to be good so it's even sweeter when we win
is that we are headed back to the good old days in terms of running backs. You remember, the time when you spent all season worrying about the position because of the loss of some huge stud, and then by about the third game of the season you were talking to your Michigan buddies about how "that [Boles/Wheatly/Perry/Hart] kid looks like he's the real deal."
And he was.
I'm pretty sure Wheatley, Boles, and Perry were all blue-chippers. So I'm not sure where you're going with that.
You can not say too much about the importance of character . . . getting up eveyrday and going to class. Staying out of trouble and the sort of kid you could be proud of!
As of right now with their current commits, osu is 3 players over their limit. It'll be interesting who meyer "dismisses" before fall practice. They also have a FOIA case that they are very concerned about that shows ted sarniak is a booster and they covered up the emails they are so desperately trying to hide now back in the 2007 "investigation." osu is hardly out of the woods with the NCAA and I'm calling it now. They get a 3rd COI meeting before next season ends.
I would not worry about anybody's class except our own. Let's stay focused on Michigan, and on who we get and who we add to see how we do in closing out this year.
I could care less how OSU does in recruiting this year - they always do well, and so does Michigan. And for all the hoopla surrounding stars and rankings, what is the honest difference between a class ranked 6th with 3 5* and 6 4* and a class ranked 10th with 2 5* and 7 4*? Not much.
People, Ohio State has always recruited well.
And yet we have an all-time winning record against them.