Wow. Thanks for this. I'm sure none of us knew that Rich Rodriguez lost a lot of games.
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Why Rich Rodriguez was Fired.
If it was that obvious, asshole, it wouldn't have needed 10,000 board topics from people pissed that it happened.
People on the internet are dumb.
Are you posting from outer space?
which is why im not surprised by your response.
Pardon me if I'm not offended by you calling me an "asshole" and suggesting that I'm dumb.
pardon me if i'm not offended by your arrogance and snide response.
ah ha, the super best friends aka high point posters sticking together. Right on cue.
Then why are u surprised when the favor
s returned?
nothin aaamichfan????
a lot of us are tired of this elitist bullshit around here. just because you have 1000000 points doesn't mean you know anything it just means you live on this site 24/7 and respond to everything you can. the way ideas are silenced on this blog is amazing for the high standards and intellectual dialogue it seems to want to hold itself to. its more like a high school clique than a place for discussion. whatever the cool kids say goes.
Note to self: do not snarkly respond to Happy Jack.
But seriously, +1 for you.
Let me explain: this was all true before the bowl game, but Brandon didn't fire him then. People are pissed that the situation sucks because of Brandon's decision.
Today's non-stop filght to Bolivia is now boardign at Gate 1. Please have your boarding passes reday for inspection.
Exactly. The greatest snake oiling he ever pulled off was on this community. I literally expected us to change the name to MGoRichRod at some point with the absolute hard-on Brian still has toward this guy.
Put me down as another Michigan fan who agrees that no man, no coach, and no player is greater than the University, even Mr. Yost or Mr. Schembechler.
I'm really struggling with all the folks around here who seem to have forgotten this concept.
SECOND (well, third)
I'm with both of you. Nobody around here can give me a good reason why we should have kept RR, and all I'm seeing about some of the candidates are inaccuracies, like "Les Miles is too old" and "Hoke's SDSU game against TCU wasn't that close," even though it was. There's a lot of opinion around here right now, but not much fact about the coaching search. And even more than opinion, there's a lot more of "OMG RR haters suck!" which I think is what the OP was getting at--no conspiracy theory, RR's outta here because he couldn't win games. People said that would be the deciding factor before the season and--surprise!--it was. RR knew that coming into the season, did what he could, and it wasn't enough (as the constant unpreparedness and lack of adjustment in games showed). Until the coaching search is over, get used to threads like this.
fuckin hell man exactly. buy this man a drink.
Trust no one.
And yes, Brandon should have fired him a month ago- I agree whole heartedly with that. This all was obvious before the bowl game was played although the bowl game made it an absolute certainty and made the decision much easier for everyone to accept. I, like many of us, wanted to see how they played in the bowl game as some semblance of a step forward. After getting embarrassed, it was clear this was the only choice.
We have 19 returning starters pending transfers/early entrants which is 11 more then RR inherited. Not to mention a good portion of them will be back in 2012 also. The man was brought here to do a complete overhaul which takes time. This team should win 9 games next year. Will it?
Face it M football is becoming irrelevant as we can't even get former players to come back and take the coaching job. The university has been extremely cheap when it comes to spending on the program minus the Big House renovations. The big $$$ donors aren't willing to accept an outsider because they want to go back to run right, run left, run up the middle then punt.
DB is out of his league as an AD. I just hope he doesn't turn M athletics into a product like what he was selling at Dominoes which was crap.
The man was brought here to do a complete overhaul which takes time.
A complete overhaul of the offensive scheme was expected, and if that was the problem with the team on the field, I think people would understand a little more. But the offensive transition is pretty much complete at this point; the offense is the only phase of the team at which the team looks remotely competent. A complete overhaul of the defense and special teams was neither expected nor required, nor was it really attempted in my opinion-- but RichRod (whom I like, by the way) presided over the worst defensive and special teams units in the history of the school. That is why he lost so many games so spectacularly, and that is why he was fired.
Double post. sorry
Well shit.
Btw, this post is completely unnecessary
and from what I hear they are building rome with it.
For stating the facts.
Oh and +1000 on the h8terz
...numbers don't lie. But we would have had Frost and Hart (and possibly more) if he were still on board. That's called an "intangible."
If, after a nine-month performance review, you don't think he's the right coach, would it really make sense to keep him employed just to save a couple of recruits?
The situation with RR had become toxic. Fans had mostly given up. Some players (and their parents) were reportedly giving up on him. The media smelled blood and went after him constantly. This would not have gotten better over the course of the offseason. Yes, it sucks right now not having a coach, but that will pass.
Like a kidney stone.
and when DB comes through with a horrible grasping for straws hire, what then?
why fight it if the media smells blood and goes after you constantly? Hell, just throw in the towell at that point.
Scott Draper deserves significant blame too. And he still has a job even though, according to the Rivals board, he was reportedly responsible for the stretchgate leaks, the leak to Fox that RR was fired and was part of the cabal that asked Harbaugh for an apology for the remarks made about Michigan's academics that Harbaugh's camp says turned him off to Michigan.
Oh right, never mind. Scott Draper isn't a traitorous idiot who shouldn't lose his job. We don't need Rivals to confirm that he is and he should. Go back and see Brian's evaluation on this site about his role in the CARA fiasco. He is a chief participant.
Rivals? That's not a dog food?
I gotta hear more about this. Because the "leak" that I have always presumed set off the Stretchgate story, was the leak of the July 27, 2009 CARA memo. Which sort of came close to costing Draper his job. So yeah, if there's more to that story, I'd like to know. But not enough to pay Rivals.
And let me get this part straight -- asking Harbaugh for an apology for a remark, which even Harbaugh's BFF Mikey Rosenberg says is a comment that Harbaugh regrets, was some sort of crime against His Harbaughness and places one in a "cabal"?
And a leak to Fox? I think cabdrivers, bartenders and barbers are leaking to Fox.
That's the whole point. It's about the entire program. There's repeated arguments for the recruits etc etc etc that we're losing. In 3 years RR is statistically the worst coach ever at Michigan.
It's like if in 2004 or 2005 (can't remember what year) we were going through a coaching change and our 5 star running back Kevin Grady de-committed because of it. Everyone would be freaking out that we lost the greatest running back ever because of the coaching change.
The point is we don't know what the recruits are going to turn out to be and to keep a coach because if it is stupid. The right coach needs to be hired regardless of the recruits right now.
This post was primarily to put away arguments like this. I was also personally surprised that he was at the top of the 2 worst categories. I knew it was bad but it really hadn't hit me that it was that bad.
But Michigan fans right now are more interested in crucifying each other....so be it.
I'm sure everyone knows that RR did not win enough games. The only reason why people are upset at the whole situation is how it is playing out. We could have fired RR and possibly held on to potential recruits if DB's plan worked out better.
The board was better on lockdown mode.
for posts like this.
But, he was treated so poorly. The Michigan fan base actually lost all these games. He never had a chance to be successful.
I disagree. There may have been some, but most wanted to. However, his poor handling of existing players with talent and his rules violation are what they are and complicated his stay. Yes the wins and losses mattered, but they were a byproduct of losing what talent was here in the transition that could have helped give him some time to make his changes. He took a scorched earth path and it came back to bite him.
This is not in line with the facts.
You can accomadate the all-world talents of Steven Threet, you have to do it?
Because we should care what a hypocritical and corrupt body such as the NCAA thinks?
A lot of people compare RR hiring to Gene Chizik. Here is the difference: Auburn fans didn't want Chizik because they thought he was a bad coach. A lot of Michigan fans just didn't like RR for whatever reason.
The fact is, RR did not get a fair shake. Maybe it wouldn't have mattered, but it would have been interesting to see what would have been had the fanbase and media rallied around him instead of spending every waking moment making the job more difficult than it already was.
Rodriguez is old news....Glad he is gone...
The Harlem Globetrotters over the Washington Generals.
Breaking news...
Based on your reactions here everyone should have been in lock step with the decision to fire him unequivocally.
I was also a bit surprised to see that he ranks DEAD LAST. His failure was epic beyond ways that I think many of us have even comprehended.
Not in this way. Not in January and not without 'the guy' ready and waiting to come in and save the program. This is the worst of all possible scenarios.
There is no selling that the University of Michigan football program is in better shape with Brady Hoke at it's helm than RR.
the point is it doesn't matter that we don't have "THE GUY" ready. the point is that RR is not "THE GUY" and we know that.
I liked the post about how OSU hired Tressel on January 18th or something like that. How's that working out for them? .800 winning percentage or something like that? 7 wins straight against arch rival.
The point is get the right guy even if it takes a little longer. In the big scheme of things a couple of recruits or a week or 2 worth of time doesn't matter.
I agree except that someone who doesn't have their head up their a** has taken a long time starting a long time ago so that this recruiting class doesn't go to sh*t. Recruiting is so important and is the chief reason we have sucked over the last three years. We can't afford another fd up class.
I believe Brandon when he said that he felt it would be unfair to send the players to the bowl game without their coach. I also believe that Brandon, like my friend the football traditionalist, wasn't crazy about the pre-bowl coaching carousel. Unfortunately both my friend and Brandon failed to realize that "behind the scenes" college football is actually more of a blood sport than the on-the-field stuff. So doing so has hurt the program, though I believe that we'll get Les MIles (or maybe one of the bigger named rumors, but definitely MIles if not) and that the recruiting class will be at least okay.
Do you know who had only 2 more wins and the 90th ranked defense in the nation after year 3? Jim Harbaugh at Stanford. I think we have set the precedent that what you were left with is only an excuse, so does that mean Jim Harbaugh should have been on the hot seat in year 3 after losing to a piss poor Wake Forrest?
Harbaugh's teams showed signs of improvement. Rodriguez's didn't. If you want a difference there's a good one for you.
So 3 to 5 to 7 wins + some actual depth coming back next year doesn't count as progress? Apparently your defintion and mine don't mesh.
Harbaugh had some signature wins in seasons 1 and 3 (USC and Cal, and Oregon/USC, respectively) in his first three seasons.
People tend to treat personnel rankings with kid gloves win you just win, baby. RichRod didn't against the big guys.
He also had a signature loss to 3-9 Notre Dame in season 1 and a signature loss to 5-7 Wake Forest in season 3 (which means yes, if Stanford would have won, Notre dame would have gone 2-10), but we don't talk about that because only signature wins count unless you are RichRod.
We can argue impact of wins/losses all we want. But from a PR perspective, an away-game win against the #2 team in the country is going to turn heads at a middling Pac-10 program (yes, I called Stanford 'middling') much more than a loss to ND.
The numbers don't lie, though. RR's 1-11 record against ranked teams vs. JH's 6-6 record is another sign of meh.
Did you watch the same games I did? Because he got to 7 wins in just about the worst way possible and the team seemed to play worse as the season went on. The numbers speak in his favor, sure, but the way the games went doesn't even a little bit.
Harbaugh inherited a team with 1 win.
Rodriguez inherited a team with 9.
Yes there was attrition but there was more than 3 wins worth of talent on the team in 2008.
-1 because it's true.
How much more? 5 wins? Great. Let's collect our bozo buttons.
I don't think you understood my point. In year 3, we fired RichRod. That means we thought he was completely responsible for everything with the team, even if his recruits were only true sophomores. That means the "look at the team he inherited" excuse doesn't cut it for our fanbase. Why then, in the Jim Harbaugh argument, can we say that a 1-11 team he inherited has anything to do with the football team in year 3? It shouldn't according to our own evaluation of RichRod. That means, in year 3, Jim Harbaugh went 8-5 in the fucking Pac-10, had the 90th ranked defense and lost to a 5-7 Wake Forest team where RichRod went 7-6 in the B10, didn't lose to a team with a losing record and also had 3 losses to teams that went a combined 33-3 before their bowl games. I mention as well that 5 out of the 6 losses were to ranked opponents, You tell me if we are evaluating the two coaches in the same light.
"That means we thought he was completely responsible for everything with the team, even if his recruits were only true sophomores."
Not true. What it really means is that DB did not see a long-term solution in keeping RR. It's as simple as that. No one knows how the long meeting on Monday went, what was discussed, etc. But you've got to give DB credit for due diligence in evaluating RR -- maybe not so much with embarking on the CC, but we won't be able to evaluate that for another few years.
Maybe RR didn't take ownership of the things he needed to (for example, when in tough games the wheels would fall off the bus -- see Illinois ca. 2009 and others; that's a product of motivation, and is the coach's responsibility). Maybe RR didn't present a convincing plan of correction. Whatever, we don't know. But it's absurd to assume that DB is simply bending to the will of Sharp, Valenti, Rosenberg, and the fools who follow them.
...the word "losses" = "routs"....those weren't losses....those were unacceptable routs we lived through. oh wait...no I forgot there was the 13-10 loss...................to Toledo.......oh wait....that's right now I remember......it was all Scott Schafer's fault......he fully accepted all the blame for all the woes of the program or as he put it.... "Bottom line is, I take full responsibility for the demise of the Michigan program... I accept all responsibility.”......with his grin ever so tucked away knowing full well his sarcasism was intended for us to read between the lines and see RR for who he really was.
...1-11 the year before JH took over.......Michigan was 9-4 coming off a bowl victory over Florida and had 7 starters returning on defense.....next please
Which of those coaches were only given 3 seasons to win with such limited talent and depth? Common sense and football knowledge dictates that you let a corch play with his players (and at least let some of them become juniors) before you make final judgment.
i have no doubt that with a real roster with actual upperclassmen players he would win the big ten and big bowl games but god forbid he be given the chance to fully rebuild the stalest program in the nation.
The amount of delusion amongst the RR defenders is really impressive.
The cupboard was bare -- to M standards, yes. Not to Toledo's or Purdue's or Northwestern's standards -- we still got our butt's kicked. No one expected us to go out and beat the pants off UW or OSU with a bunch of sophomores, but we never had a realistic chance in any game against a moderately good opponent (or better, obviously). We also lost to a lot of crap teams.
Do you honestly think most coaches would have lost to Toledo, at home, with the same roster? Delusion.
lol you're exactly right.
So let me get this straight, Rich Rod had the worst record in UM history and has 6 B1G 10 wins in 3 years, and you are a bit surprised with these numbers?
no i'm surprised with the defense of him despite these numbers.
Great, you posted in letters what DB just said 2 days ago in his press conference.
I applaud you for your diligent effort to show how bad RR was. We've all been here dude.
If we'd at least kept it close against Wisco, OSU and MSU (NTMSU) I doubt he would've been fired.
I was at the game last week and I knew by the end of the third quarter that he couldn't come back.
They lost by 38.....what was the tipping point? I think if they lost by three or seven, that he could have kept his job. A 10-17 point loss might have been a grey area. Anything above that, he definitely had to go, especially with a month to prepare for the game.
There were a lot of little things along the way that cost RR. What if Michigan had punched it in from the one against Illinois last year and then somehow held on to momentum and won the game? What if they hadn't botched the fake punt against MSU? What if he hadn't been outcoached by Danny Hope (yes, Danny Hope) against Purdue? One more win in 2009 would have put him into a bowl game and improved his resume considerably.
It was a close call for RR, but in the end there really wasn't any other choice.....I just wish that this coaching search had been better planned.
RichRod was fired because of people like you...kthx
RichRod was fired because of people like you...kthx
.....because DB succumbed to the outside pressure, without having a solid plan in place.
Hence no Harbaugh, the repeat of a Bill Martin like coaching search......unless he pulls something out of his ass, going to have a hard time regaining my respect for him.
Outside pressure...known as the fanbase? Yeah, that'll usually do it. When the fanbase is upset, angry, and realizes a coach isn't going to win, they'll ask for him to be fired.
And you're having a hard time respecting a guy that has had four days to hire a new head coach? Four days?
I've actually come around to the conclusion that RR's handling of the 2010 offense played a large part into why he was fired.
the conclusion that the utter lack of defense in 2010 (combined with poor special teams) played the largest part in his demise.
That is clearly a large (and obvious) part of it, but I think what he did with the offense this year was a major consideration. We had to endure an utter mess in 2008 because the players had to "learn the offense" that he brought from WVU. Players transferred, the players that were left were largely clueless in the system. There was no deviation because the players had to learn it and it would take time. There was no adaptation in the scheme based upon the talent that was present. That changed with Denard in 2010. The offensive playcalling this year was unlike anything I've seen from RR's offenses at the FBS level (and I followed him closely before his time at Michigan, particularly at WVU), so it was obvious that he had the ability to adapt based upon the talent present (or at least consider adapting), which begs the question why it didn't happen sooner.
Redundant. Thanks for sharing your exclusive insight into Rich Rod's coaching tenure.
Now that he is gone it seems that we are going to rock next season (sarcasm). I mean just look at today...1)We have no coach 2) We were 0-3 on recruits 3) and Dee Hart said a reason he chose Bama was because of the coaching change. O yeah...great idea to let RR go because next season looks promising...I hope our coach will do a good job....wait...who is our coach????
this argument seems to be strong amongst the community which is exactly why i posted this thread.
for those more interested in just crucifying each other so be it- neg bomb me to fucking oblivion it doesn't make a damn bit of difference to me nor make me love Michigan any less.
I've gone back and forth in my thinking about this over the last few weeks and thats why i posted this. When thinking about it more simplistically it became more obvious to me that the right decision was reached. Go Blue.
It's Bolivia btw.
you lack it
...was never intending to come here, and I felt that way from midway through this season. Though the running back position is actually pretty well stocked once we get away from Rich Rod's obsession with using Vincent Smith nearly every play (Fitz, Stephen Hopkins, and Mike Shaw should be considered, not sure if Cox has improved as he never played in the games, Justice Hayes coming in, etc.).
RR did not win as much as he lost
Big Picture. Slash how does Belien still have a job? RR goes forward Belien goes backwards. What has Dave Brandon done that makes anyone think this decision or any coaching decision he has made is an educated one. Wow, some of you are so blind.
Wow, some of you are so blind.
You mean, like going to the tourny in his second year? The first tourny appearance for Michigan in over a decade? Or was it his ability to actually win games in the Big Ten and recruit that you aren't noticing?
The fuck has gotten in the drinking water around here?
...he's built a young rising team that is beating any team that isn't among the best of the best and shows signs of beating them. And this is with the worst basketball facilities in the Big 10.
Umm, yeah. Thanks for this fresh information.Never really looked at it this way. /s
awww cute
Umm, yeah. Thanks for this fresh information.Never really looked at it this way. /s
RR did not win as much as he lost
For me, that's a big deal. If he went 7-6 a second time, I would have said, yes, he's gone. But dont you think he had a legit chance at winning 9 games next year? There's a difference between winning 7 then 5 then 3 games and the reverse. Denard is going to be even better next season, and the defense will be one year older. I still think he should have gotten a fourth year because of the trajectory. Every year this team did get better. (I know the defense got worse, but you can't argue against the fact that 2010 michigan >>> 2009 michigan >>> 2008 michigan.)
Also, MSU, OSU and WISC were all top 10 teams this season, that's rare and surely next year would have been an easier conference schedule.
Anyways, water under the bridge.
RR did not win as much as he lost
RR cost the university $12.5 million in his 3 year tenure. I would say that he got fired because, with only 15 wins he was getting $833,333.33 per win. 2 years ago when FL won the NC game Meyer only got $357,142 per win. Same thing with Bama last year. Seems like a pretty costly deal we had with him.
I'm so confident in his coaching abilities I bet my buddy $50 that RR would take a team(he doesn't even have a job) to a BCS game before UM. I truly believe it too. The numbers may not lie but they don't always tell the entire story. JH had damn near the same record after 3 seasons at Stanford as RR had at Michigan. Now one is treated like a god and one is treated like a bumbling hill-billy.
I'm so confident in his coaching abilities I bet my buddy $50 that RR would take a team(he doesn't even have a job) to a BCS game before UM. I truly believe it too. The numbers may not lie but they don't always tell the entire story. JH had damn near the same record after 3 seasons at Stanford as RR had at Michigan. Now one is treated like a god and one is treated like a bumbling hill-billy.
Jeebus
Cool story bro.
And is one year too soon to fire an AD?
OMG LETS FIRE DAVE BRANDON IT'S ALL HIS FAULT. OMG OMG OMG.
That still doesn't make it the right reason. The question should be about the future, not the past.
i think that's the first time i've seen that point. obvious to me. i was all for another year, but the job was getting way too toxic.
I agree with OP. RR was fired because he didn't win enough.
but that's a sunk cost. and with one of the youngest teams in the country, it should be obvious to any buffoon that the team was improving overall (not as much as i or most would like tho) and would be better in 2011.
This is why Rich was fired ultimately. He hired Greg Robinson, he stayed loyal to the defensive staff, he was INSISTENT on playing the 3-3-5 and it cost him his job.
If the defense was even MIDDLE OF THE ROAD this year, his job would have been preserved and a complete vote of confidence would have been given. We also would have won a few games we lost (Iowa, PSU) and been far closer in the others.
The defense killed his coaching career - he will hire a philosophically in tune defensive coordinator next time and leave him alone to recruit the players he wants. If he doesn't he will run into the same problems he ran into here - the problems that Casteel basically helped cover up.
also add in the bad kickers and fumbling kick returners.
read the front page and consider the budget RR likley had to work with in finding a DC.
that level of salary does not attract A-level coaching candidates, sorry, just true
Those are excellent points, of course. Happy Jack.
To be fair, I don't comdemn David Brandon for possibly canning him because of the possible threat to the university's brand equity - a threat that has apparently materialized, given the results from the All-American Game.
Lets just start this off at RR getting here people like you just hated him from the get go and made his time here complete hell, why do you think no coaches have stepped up wanting this job? because of people like you they seen how certain michigan fans treated him and want no part of it, guys like you gave all michigan fans bad names.
Lets look at the problems on defense these are the players that have been drafted since Carr left that he recruited.
2010 NFL
Rd. 1 - Brandon Graham, DE, Philadelphia Eagles (13)
Rd. 5 - Zoltan Mesko, P, New England Patriots (150)
Rd. 7 - Stevie Brown, S, Oakland Raiders (251)
2009 NFL
Rd. 4 - Terrance Taylor, DT, Indianapolis Colts (136)
Rd. 6 - Morgan Trent, CB, Cincinnati Bengals (179)
And we can add mike martine will be drafted and obi will be drafted this year if hes lucky. Do you see the problem with this list? its a joke Carr is the one to blame for michigans struggles. And if you notice there is not one offensive player on this list.
Lets look at Carrs career at michigan we won one NC and lost all BCS games Hart and Henne are two of the greatest players we have ever had at their postions and neither of them ever beat OSU.
So my conclusion is every michigan fan that acts like you should go play in traffic somewhere or go be a state fan and p.s we just lost two great players on defense and the army AA player of the year cause RR was fired thats awesome.
would draft ezeh, nobody else would.
Obi's not a WR
English motherfucker?
Carr deserves a lot of blame. Take a look at the class lists for 2004, 2005 and 2006 (i.e. the upper-classmen for RR's tenure) and you will notice a major lack of numbers at crucial positions and a major lack of talent overall, no matter what the class was ranked at the time. This is on Carr and that can't be denied just b/c (whoopty-do) we had 5 players from the Carr era drafted over the last few years.
WTF
This is a very good point and would defend general underperformance to M's usual standards. But, I must ask, how many players did Toledo send to the draft in that same span? Northwestern? Purdue? All of these teams kicked our butts. The RR era was not just bad, it was inexplicably and unjustifiably bad.
...you're forgetting that RR's first season, he had the following on defense:
1.) Terrence Taylor
2.) Brandon Graham
3.) Tim Jamison
4.) Donovan Warren
5.) Stevie Brown
6.) Brandon Harrison
7.) Charles Stewart
8.) Morgan Trent
9.) Will Johnson
10.) John Thompson
11.) Jonas Mouton
12.) Austin Panter
....I don't know about many of you but there's some pretty darn good football players on that defense right there....I'm quite sure that most of them played key roles on the 06 defense. I don't think the "Blame Carr" campaign holds water.
I noticed none of the other shit talkers here had anything to say so I thought I would. This is why RR is being held responsible. There was talent on these teams and he couldn't win with it. You're all diluting the facts if you can't see this. Thanks for this post making it painfully obvious especially as it refers to the defense.
Does is occur to anyone that DB is now getting a chance to walk in RR's shoes for awhile ???
that miserable winning percentage was, in the main, RichRod's fault, or that it couldn't over time be raised (concept!) then I wouldn't have argued he had another year coming.
These are facts, too:
He won 3, 5, then 7 games. His offense was #2-5 in the country. He had the first QB to run and throw for 1500 yards. Next year he had everyone coming back. WE HAD NO ONE IN PLACE TO TAKE HIS SPOT, IN JANUARY.
Next year RichRod would have had no excuses, and--if he failed--he should be let go.
THE CHANCES WERE STRONG FOR A WINNING SEASON, CONTENDING IN THE B10.
Brandon made the situation worse.
Thanks for your input.
his offense was #2-5 in YARDAGE. how did they play against the UW, OSU, MSU, and MSU? Glad you're happy with putting up 700 yards on Bowling Green. That really demonstrates progress. What proof do you have that the defense would get significantly better than wishful thinking? A bunch of low rated recruits coming back?
You're all drinking the kool- aid man. Look at it for what it is.
I support ANY coach that comes to Michigan. The first Michigan teams I saw were Moellers so I don't give a shit about all that. I want Michigan to succeed and Rodriguez wasn't the guy. The responses to this thread only prove why I posted it.
Look at it as SIMPLE as you can. He didn't do a good job.
adduce facts. To say I'm drinking kool-aid (tired cliche) doesn't get us too far, does it?
My point is that there are issues beyond his W-L record, including how his firing affects the program, what you're left with, immediate and future possibilities. You're saying that all that matters is W-L and you want a medal for smart thinking? Not.
Anybody that tells me, in effect, to stop thinking and accept some dumb fact they've tossed out as the end of the conversation gets no respect from me. Have another Budweiser.
I'm saying your point is weak, biased, and stupid. Drink some more kool-aid with your maize colored glasses on.
This is how you make your points and you act surprised the fanbase is divided? MGoPoints may not matter (fine, then I don't feel bad helping to neg you to Bolivian) but one of the biggest signs of insanity is thinking the problem is with the rest of us instead of yourself.
I responded with a reasoned answer. He told me to "go drink another budweiser."
where's your critique of that?
oh and did you miss all the responses from my post the last 2 pages?
i never said the problem is with anybody else. i stated my opinion.
You are right on Happy Jack,even though the majority won't like seeing the truth and neg you to death but like you said "Oh well". We beat 7 shi--- teams and had a ton of yardage against some of the cupcakes on the schedule.Then when we play a quality opponent the offense suddenly bogs down.I can't believe (after 3 seasons of this shi -) people are still defending RR.Don' feel sorry for him, he just took home 10 million dollars for a lousy 15 wins(vs. garbage).And when we lose its the same response, either "We are young and inexperienced" or "we just didn't execute".Defense was the worst ever and special teams, that looked more like special olympics. Bottom line is winning and when you lose your last 3 games by 88 points, you are along way from winning.Against good teams anyway.
amen brother.
...i'm tired of hearing the 6th best offense. We couldn't do anything against quality competition. The players didn't fight for him. DB even stated that his talks with current players helped him immensely in the decision. That's saying something right there. The feeling is RR was a great guy....far from a great coach. Let's just hope we get someone who can take what we have offensively and sprinkle in some toughness.
i agree wholeheartedly. and yet there's still no response to this from the MgoBlog elite. Seems they're happier trashing people than responding to fair arguments.
double post
double neg
I like it.
Well OP, it looks like you lost a couple hundred points pretty quickly!
good thing they don't matter!
elven warriers and rcmb it seems.
FuManBlue, keep your spirits up, I think you'll be free sooner than you might have thought!
Remember the good old days? Back when there were only 4 monster threads per day and we didn't get crazy posts? *sigh*
what's really redundant is how everyone replies with the same response and they all think they're witty and funny.
OMG i'm broke in MGoWorld
you can all go back to doing this now:
Everyone responds with the same comments because your argument was so patently myopic that it could be easily refuted.
For someone who claims to not give much of a crap about how he/she is perceived on this site, you sure do goad people on.
i never said i don't care how i'm perceived. i don't on this website because it's just that.
do i care about MGoPoints? What's the prize for having the most of those? oh yeah that's why i don't care.
if you would have stopped and thought for a second why an argument like mine would make sense in context with many peoples opinions around here then it probably wouldn't have seemed so "patently myopic." If it's something you've already accepted fine move on. Many people haven't and I myself have had conflicting thoughts of the situation until recently.
and BTW- my post wasn't meant as a dead serious appraisal. It was somewhat tongue in cheek coupled with my opinion. Hence the "painstaking research" for a cut and paste from wikipedia. My opinion is that he was fired because of his putrid record historically placing him last among all coaches that have ever coached here- not because of all the other distractions people are choosing to focus on.
I think that the single biggest problem with the team was actually the kicking game, not the defense. Sure the defense was terrible, but given its youth, that's (relatively) understandable. The kickers, however, were off-the-charts bad and there was no good reason for it. Rich Rod said himself that they were making the kicks in practice, just not in games. What do you do as a coach? Ultimately, you're never going to have a stable of kickers equivalent to the stable of RBs, WRs or DBs. You have one or two guys and expect them to perform. RR eventually started trying out guys from the student body, for chrissakes!
Anyway, throughout the first half of the season, our offense was able to cover the holes that our defense certainly had. But once it became apparent that our offense had to be perfect - that is, they needed touchdowns on every drive, because FGs were not an option - defenses were able to adjust. And all of those 4th and longs that any other team could have taken 3 points on turned into either 0 points for us or 0 for us and 7 for our opponents.
How do you fix that problem? You work on the defense, sure, but you get a new kicker. And we did. He is(/was) and I honestly think that with a half-decent kicker, we win one or two more games next year. Just completely changes the nature of how we play and allows the defense to mature.
I don't mean to ignore the defense here, but people tend to think about the defense, which is a big, hard-to-solve problem, when I think the kicking game might have been as bad and is smaller and easier to fix. In my opinion, it would have made a big difference next year.
You want to know RR was fired? Because he didn't win enough AND because, from the first day he stepped into Ann Arbor, people have been taking shots at him in a way that is just embarrassing. Before he coached a single game, people were already calling for his head because he (a) was trying to install a new-fangled spread offense that people didn't like, (b) wasn't Les Miles/Bo, and (c) wasn't a "Michigan Man", that stupid talking point people use when they can't generate legitimate arguments for or against someone.
I feel bad for RR because he tried to push UM into the 21st century and people in the media (and some in the AD's department) were terrified what that might mean. So now we'll probably return to that safe cocoon of 9-3, 10-2 with losses to OSU and any other team that isn't afraid to roll the dice. But hey, we'll probably start beating Wiscy and MSU again, so yippee!
The fanbase suffered through 3 years of crap because the potential payoff was a team like Oregon - a team playing for the MNC and one of the more dynamic and innovative programs in the country. Instead, we are going to suffer through a couple more years of "meh" so that we can return to MAYBE being as good as OSU in 5-6 years. Ugh!
...told us UM fans to "get a life".......fantastic words coming from our leader at best. And if 10-2 and your "safe cocoon" is for the taking....i'm all in for michigan....because you can't go undefeated every year but hopefully our new coach can put 11 guys on the field for defense....oh wait that's right....he's not in charge of the D....he's just the HC.
Agree, bronxblue. I believe that Brandon does not like the spread (it's a gimmick to an old football man, such as himself), and we go back to 3 yards and a cloud of dust, contending for the B1G and losing the bowl games. In a conference locked in a time capsule. And when one of the upper echelon teams in the B1G goes spread, we won't even compete for the B1G title.
...in a time capsul, that Time Capsul has gone a very respectable 8-8 in bowl games the last 2 years (and 3-3 in BCS games the last 2 years) so its not like its terrible. And no upper echelon teams in general are going to the spread (as a matter of fact, more top teams in general are tossing the spread, Auburn will probably have to ultimately get rid of the spread when Newton eventually leaves as he's that rare "once in a lifetime" talent that can overcome the flaws in that scheme).
Only if Rich's d could have given up twenty points per game...Michigan would be playing this Monday.
If only they would have scored more points than every team they would have won the National Championship. Unfortunately they didn't, so they didn't.
Just think what could have been for Michigan if we had kept the pro-style offense, and retained Mallett, Manningham, and Arrington. We probably would have been on the outskirts of a national contender this year. If you argue against that, you can't deny we would be a lot better off than we have been.
I was one of the individuals lobbying for a more potent offense, like a west-coast, or hybrid spread. I have been disappointing, as has everyone with the team's performance, but I still think RR should have been more adaptable with the player he had. Scraping the team and throwing away two seasons to set up your team is ridiculous and if he thought that the UofM community would tollorate it, well... he knows the answer to that now.
On another point, Dave Brandon is correct saying we need to rally around our new coach, and be a cohesive entity. The negging on opinions outside of your own, only shows your lack of bipartisanship and closed-mindedness. This is an outlet for all of those associated with and connected to the univerisity to exchange their thoughts and opinions. If you disagree with this then you may as well call yourself a facist. This is a new chapter in Michigan football and as history has shown we can only progress as a program if we are all in agreement of the direction we are going. This is the time for us to begin this, and it starts with the intruduction of our new HC
Hail!
Almost every piece of reporting had Manningham and Mallet as gone no matter who was replacing Carr. This is fantasy land.
I didn't know you could see into the future! Sorry too much sarcasm . Anyway, they might not have if things had been different. But that's in the past and there is no way to tell now.
Two things:
1) Mallet and Arrington were gone before RR was hired. By all accounts, they wanted nothing to do with UM after that season.
2) I will rally around the new UM coach because I am an idiot alum who bleeds the Maize and Blue, but where was the cohesion and open-mindedness around RR? If memory serves me right, people we sniping at him as soon as he accepted the job. Nobody will make everyone happy - personally, I would have been a little pissed with the Harbaugh signing because I don't see him as a massive improvement, just a guy who will inherit a better situation than RR did.
There are a couple of people here who neg opinions outside of what Brian says because they are reactionary, but most people here have an open mind. What does drive me crazy is that people use the "I have a differing opinion" argument to cover up something that is factually wrong/clearly inflammatory. I'll respect your opinion (and this is not directed negatively at Jambon) if you back it up with some logic; if you just write crap to be different, there are better places for you than here.
Here's a quick story about a college basketball coach. In the early 80s, he took over a once great program - a founding member of the ACC with 4 final four appearances and 10 conference championships under its belt - that had fallen on hard times. This is what the team did in his first three seaons as coach:
1980-81: 17-13 overall, 6-8 in conference (T-5th)
1981-82: 10-17 overall, 4-10 in conference (T-6th)
1982-83: 11-17 overall, 3-11 in conference (7th)
In those three years, his team went 1-6 against their hated rival, often losing by 10-20 points. By the end of season three, the alumni were FLIPPING OUT and many wanted him gone asap. Instead cooler heads prevailed and he kept his job.
It was a good decision - I am describing Mike Krzyzewski, one of the most successful coaches in the history of organized sports. If he had been fired after 3 seasons, the story would have gone much differently - for both the coach and the school.
I will support who ever David Brandon brings in, but you will never convince me that he made a good decision firing Rich Rodriguez, after 3 seasons, with 18-20 starters set to return. I believe it was enormous mistake influenced by a petulant, impatient and spoiled fanbase.
wonderful response. I couldn't agree more.
would you like a response containing the 90% of coaches that this doesn't apply for?
Bo and Canham would have said 2 more years then assess. That is the logical obvious choice with a 5 year recruiting cycle etc. The impatient short-sighted whiner alumni and big donors are an embarassment to what UM used to stand for. Excellence embodies common sense, logic, and fairness. This very premature axing of RR flies in the face of "Leaders and Best" and in the process it moves us toward losers and worst. After 55 years around the program as former scholarship athlete and alum it is deeply disappointing and frustrating. We were headed for much better things. Now we move to become the corporate UM and quickly building our "brand" and marketing our image etc, etc. What a cruel joke.
...despite the "Oh NOs, we iz becoming Notre Dame" comments it should be noted that Notre Dame became what they are primarily because they repeatedly gave 5 year runs to terrible coaches (the in over his head Bob Davie, and the incompetent as a Head Coach Charlie Weiss). The only guy Notre Dame gave 3 and out to was Ty Willingham, and if you want to make the argument that he would have changed things after his tenure in Washington? Well, you can do that, but I wouldn't.
Its stupid to fire the guy this late without having a replacement ready to go. its killing the image we have as a university and an organization. Hire Chip Kelly
So you're saying if he'd won 3 straight national championships instead maybe he wouldn't have gotten fired?
Rich Rod was fired?
as the kids like to say.
No, Jack. If we let him coach more seasons he would have beaten all the crappy teams on our schedule and lost to the good ones. Eventually, he would build up a better winning percentage than DFL among M coaches.
People are attached to the idea of what RR could do. It didn't happen. Let it go.
Happy Jack isn't saying anything outlandish (unless provoked, perhaps), but he's getting treated like an MLive goon. Doesn't make sense.
That said, Jack is missing the antecedent cause. I know the real reason Rich Rodriguez was fired:
Nice guys finish last
Why do I like Rich and am sad to see him go? Because when he was the coach of the University of Michigan I hitched my wagon to him just like everyone else should have but didn't. Now I will sadly unhitch my wagon and wait for the next horse.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5996783
"Rich Rod didn't have a chance because no one agreed with the hire from the top to the bottom of the school and all over town," Hart said. "I'm going to be 100 percent behind whoever the coach at Michigan is and I hope everybody that loves Michigan is the same way, too, even if they don't like who Dave Brandon hires."
I think Mike Hart says it best.
As for me, I am very much against the portion of our fanbase, alumni, former players and administration that would sabotage the program just to get their man in. Rich went through more mud for our University, with very little verbal acknowledgement or support, than any head coach should. I will not ask for forgiveness for liking that man and think that if he were given a fair chance the University and its fanbase would look substantially better than it does right now.
http://www.sportsinferno.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53823
I want to coach," Hart said. "And hopefully I'll be the head coach at Michigan one day. That's my goal."Head coach?" No joke," Hart said, smiling. "That's ultimately what I want to do. I love Michigan.That's a big part of me."
Maybe he should be on our staff, and rebuild the tree of Michigan men, coaching the Michigan team
Edit: trial, do not neg, thank you
you all act like he had nothing to do with his own perception.
ignorance
You act like he had everything to do with his own perception. Ignorance.
I am not unwilling to recognize that Rich made mistakes. Any person does and he made his fair share. However, every single mistake he made was multiplied 10-20 fold by enemies he didn't make. He's a hire that should have never happened unless Martin was absolutely willing to clean the entire house. Martin wasn't and the house was more than just divided from day one (before RR had even arrived on campus or the whole buyout fiasco).
It is absolute buffoonery to not recognize the dynamic that Hart was referring to. If you can't understand what Hart is talking about and how it applies to the problems RR faced, I wouldn't be throwing the ignorant word around so easily.
The reason RichRod was fired? Three fold.
1. He failed to win games. (This is number one by a lot)
2. He failed to win games in a way that looked bad to the average Michigan fan. Not having any sort of defense in year three makes the team a laughingstock--and given the high profile makes the University looks bad. Something I hated.
3. Personal issues. For every one thing I liked--spring game importance, the walk--there were four bad things he did. The walls, running players off, his badly sliding APR ratings, his personal shady business dealings.