There's something the coaches ate waiting on, whether it be seeing him camp or just letting other offers play out first. I don't necessarily think it means there's not serious interest, more a question of how the coaches want the class to play out.
Why not Tyler O'Connor?
We're probably waiting for Dantonio to make O'Connor the cornerstone of his recruiting strategy first.
agreed... this idea for waiting topic is nowhere near discussed enough, and to me, far more interesting.
I like O'Connor, but saying you would much rather have him than Kiel is kind of crazy. Kiel is the top QB on Scout and Rivals.
The scouting services like 24/7, Scout and Rivals are merely guidelines - particularly before a prospect's senior season. They all tend to get on board with the same hyped players and only find the others after coaches dig around to find them. That is not to deny the obvious fact that most 5* guys are top players (and welcome additions to the Maize & Blue), but if you look at Kiel's tape and then at O'Connor's you will find it hard to understand why one has 5* and the other 3*. Bottom line = don't just go by star ratings.
So you trust yourself over not only the paid scouting services (which, this is their job. They're not perfect, but they have experience), but also over coaches from such schools as:
Alabama, Colorado, Georgia, Iowa, Michigan, Missouri, Notre Dame, Oklahoma, Purdue, TCU, Tennessee, USC, and Wisconsin, all of whom have offered Kiel but not O'Connor?
Methinks they're a little more experienced in evaluating high school prospects than you are. I don't mean that as an insult, either, just... they make several million dollars a year, in part because they're really good at this.
The people you mentioned above are biased. They all pay WAY too much attention to things like "talent" and "potential."
I appreciate your contribution to this fan-tastic Blog so no offense taken, but my main point was that the poster I was replying to apparently takes the star ratings as gospel. After watching numerous recruiting classes matriculate you gain more perspective on how accurate a star rating is five months before the beginning of a recruit's senior year. It's just an educated guess - far more educated than mine - but a guess nonetheless and not beyond questioning in a forum like this. Keep up the great work!
3* QB out of Audubon High School couldn't break the starting line-up behind NFL drifter, Tyler Palko, at Pitt. There are many, many examples of overlooked talent. It's entirely possible that Tyler O'Connor could fall into that category.
We don't question the idea that talent sometimes goes unnoticed. Tom Brady went in the 6th round, Pat White was a negative-7-star, etc.
What we do question, however, is whether we can reasonably rely on an untrained eye to properly evaluate talent based on seven minutes of Youtube highlights, when so many professionals miss-evaluated him based on (presumably) more film, the chance to see him throw live, and that same seven minute highlight reel.
He could be right... but if I were a betting man, I would put my money on the pros. I don't think skepticism is out of line.
was not to suggest that any player should be offered purely on highlight reels. As a matter of fact, there are a number of current players and future recruits that based on their highlight reels, if I were the coach, I wouldn't have offered a scholarship. What I'm suggesting is that the scouts are as wrong as they are right. I mean about a week ago, the entire board was talking about how Rivals missed some guys that should have been higher ranked or in the list, but weren't.
But I disagree on the idea that "scouts are wrong as they are right." The pros are actually really, really good at their jobs:
Perfect? No. But if I were a betting man, I would put money on a five-star any day of the week.
on my part to say "as wrong as they are right". Over the last 15 - 20 years the prognosticators have fine tuned their skill, but when I played HS and later D1 ball, I saw flame out after flame out of what would be considered 4* & 5* talent. That was the early 90's and they have admittedly gotten better at assessing talent so on that point, I retract my embellishment. However,I do still trust my own eyes over most scouting sites.
I would be fine with O'Connor. I like soome of the things he does and could see him being developed down the road. But I actually like Austin Appleby more. Watch his film and he makes throws to every part of the field. He hits sideline routs at 15-20 yards from the pocket. Drops the ball into the seams and does a good job with crossing routes.
Some fans think that Gunner Kiel is getting ready to announce. I would be curious to see what would happen with Shane Morris if Kiel were to verbal. I don't expect it, but would Morris stay commited?
I would think so.. Tom said that Hoke told Morris that they still want a QB in this class and that it would be a "Drew Henson scenario" so I think Morris is expecting to have to compete for the starting job
I'm not sure if someone as high profile as Kiel commits though
There is little chance of Kiel going Blue (which is fine with me) and more reason to go hard after a viable QB like O'Connor. If we miss out on him then someone like Appleby would be acceptable.
I wouldn't say that there is a little chance of Kiel going Blue. Rivals is hinting that Kiel may have more interest than people believe -- also, he is keeping his recruitment virtually silent right now so it's purely speculation about where he is leaning.
Is it just me or is this one of the best years for QB names in recent memory?
I agree with this. I actually like Appleby much more than Mauk, and more than O'Connor. I think he was underrated by recruiting services due to the injury he is rehabbing from (and rehabbing ridiculously hard) and his recruitment is going to blow up this year. I know they're making him wait and camp (and he seems willing to do so) but I think he'd be a great recruit to snare in the event that Kiel doesn't want to go Blue.
Morris has already indicated he'd stay committed if Kiel were to commit. I mean, the kid has to know all of the hype around himself already -- if Auburn can sign 5* quarterbacks in consecutive years, it's clear that they're willing to compete with one another. I don't think anyone has even indicated that Morris is unwilling to compete (well, except for Sparty, 'cause you know that's why he committed to us instead of them).
Maybe we are in a good position with Keil?
We certainly could be. I know people are muttering that we're not, but he doesn't really talk to the media. We didn't even hear any comments from Tom after his visit. At this point I'd say we have as good a shot as anyone else (though I'd like it if we could get him on campus again... I think he's been to Oklahoma twice).
Don't claim to have an answer. Only know that if the coaches felt he was worth an offer this early then they would haveextended one.
I like his film. Not as good as Kiel but I would take him over Mauk. I'm not the coaching staff though and I defer to their judgment when it comes to offering players. They have access to more information then we do and typically have far better insight.
Point taken, but if we never question the coaches' recruiting decisions that somewhat limits the scope of the board.
we gotta have at least 150 offers out there, if he doesn't have one, there's probably a reason. go back to sleep.
if we never question the coaches' recruiting decisions that somewhat limits the scope of the board.
I personally find that it limits the stupidity of the board. This is part of the reason why I feel Magnus has an important place here. He's coached for a while and has evaluated more recruits for the next level than I can count. His feedback is appreciated.
Personally, I admit that I know dick about football compared to the coaches both at Michigan and on this board, and I feel justified saying this is the case for most users here (relative scope). We also have much, much more restricted access to these players, both in person and with film.
Acting like we're better at identifying what our coaches want in a recruit more than the coaches themselves is rather absurd.
I agree. We should not limit the stupidity of the board!
Id much rather have a 3 or 4 star DT or OL at this point..
entirely sure why this is off topic. We havent offered Tyler because, at the moment, we have between 7 and 10 spots left. We still need to pick up 2 defensive tackles, a realistic strong DE (Godin is a good get for this spot, not entirely sure where he projects though) and at least 4 more OL (at the very least 3.. with hopefully 2 Ts). With all these offers, we cannot afford to extend offers to kids this early in the process when there are
A. positions of greater need to recruit
B. positions that have players with interest with higher overall ceiling and abiility
(jarrod wilson, wright, wormley)
Im a big believer in covering holes then waiting to get the best you can for the remainder. If Tyler is genuinely interested and wants to go to UM then he will camp and get an offer..
Be excited. Our recruiting class is shaping up to both upgrade talent and fill holes.
You're presuming we don't take a QB though. The coaches have always said they plan on grabbing a QB every class, and flat out told Morris that when he committed. We'd all like some high-profile lineman but we'll be looking for a QB as well. The staff is supposedly planning on a class of 22 (even though only 18 are open right now). That still leaves 11 spots open for 2-3 DL, 3-4 OL and the rest. There's room for a QB in there.
If you look at our depth chart, we are royally screwed if we dont get at least 4 OL and we absolutley need a DT.
In two seasons (whcih would allow us to redshirt any lineman from this class who commit) we will have 8 offensive lineman. 8. And that is assuming no injuries and that everyone pans out. I wont lie, the offensive line situation scares the hell out of me.
The DT spot is essentially the same.. we have 3 guys left. We need ot take 2 possibly 3 DTs or we are going to be ridiculously thin.
I get that they probably will take a QB, but before we extend offers (which if a recruit says yes to we have to take them) I'd like to address the needs.
ALso, I think 22 is a bit high of a #.. maybe 20.
I don't disagree with you, I'm just relaying what the coaches have said. They're planning as if there will be 22. They plan on taking a QB.
You don't see a QB as being a need. A lot of people agree with you. That's ultimately irrelevant because the staff does see 1 QB as a need. Taking 1 won't affect the OL/DL numbers you've mentioned, which yeah we're a little thin everywhere but DE.
Pet peeve: calling YouTube and Rivals highlight tapes "film" like we're some kind of professional scouts. "Yeah, I watched his film." The fuck you did. You watched the sanitized version that they put out so you'd get excited over him as a prospect. Every quarterback looks good on highlight tapes. That's why they're highlights.
This is what I thought when reading this post. What most of us watch are highlights, we don't have access to full game footage. We see there best 5 plays from each game and see what they can do when things go right. We don't see the other 85 percent of their plays where they throw into triple coverage or over throw the long ball 9 out of ten times. We have no choices but to trust the coaches and recruiting sites.
But, we haven't see "film" of Kiel or Mauk either. All he said, is based on what he saw, he liked Tyler better.
If he had just said that he liked Tyler O'Connor based on the highlights he had seen, that would be different. What he said was that he "cannot understand why we haven't offered Tyler O'Connor ."
Liking a guy based on incomplete information is an opinion. Being befuddled that your opinion doesn't match the combined opinions of dozens of top BCS-level coaches (including Michigan's staff) and every paid recruiting service under the sun... well, I don't know what that is.
now that i looked at his highlights, i agree. he seems to know when to zip it or put touch on, i like his delivery more than mauks, his looks like hennes where it could get batted down at the line alot
When you're trying to say someone's delivery is less than desirable, you might not want to compare said delivery to a four-year starting quarterback who owns just about every Michigan record and went in the early second round of the draft.
Compare it to Terrelle Pryor. Then we can chat.
i always enjoying getting responses from people that feel like policing the blog. i am just making an observation, henne did get quite a few passes batted down, no where in that sentence did i say henne was awful there is a reason i own an orange authentic miami dolphins henne jersey.
Disagreeing with the content of a post isn't "policing the board." If that was my intention, I would have gone with "the shift key is your friend," "nowhere is one word," or "holy lack of punctuation, Batman."
I was merely pointing out that "damnit, he has a Chad Henne delivery" is not going to win a lot of support for your position around here. Most Michigan fans would take Chad Henne Part Deux without so much as a second thought. Worrying too much about a few batted balls makes you look like that guy who whined when Barry Sanders led the league in negative yardage every year.
Damn, you are just superior to me. I apologize for not using the proper etiquette for blogging from my phone. Thank you for overanalyzing my statement. In all honesty, who cares, Shane Morris is coming here regardless I am more than happy with that.
wow rivals has stats up for mauk and it says he threw for 69 tds and 5670 yards his jr year, they must use video game numbers
Plus he ran for almost 1000 yds. Crazy!
their offense is a little weird.. they always go for the onside kick, don't have a running back, and watch him scramble.. he takes the snap out of the gun, then runs back another 3 to 5 yards. He has a great arm. But a lot of those stats are padded.
They went five-wide and passed the ball every play.
Im thrilled beyond belief that after the last 3 seasons we have 5 star Qbs even considering us. But THIS IS MICHIGAN!!!
good enough. If Tyler wants a spot ... it's on him to make it known and establish communication.
It does seem odd not to offer him in some respect (since not all offers are commitable) but there's more going on here than a fan can know.
Given the recent info wrt Hoke's recruiting techniques (which aren't any different than most other D-1 schools AFAIK) Tyler knows where he stands (if he cares to know.) Hoke isn't going to leave any D-1 talent in the dark that contacts the staff. There is no insult in asking a QB to camp or visit to get an offer.
Kelly was not offered which I thought strange seeing as he visited, but he was asked to camp. Post camp (is June 19-23 the date?) we should have a better idea.
In the spirit of this "why not" theme...Does anyone know why Michigan has not offered Georgia DT Jordan Watkins? I remember being really excited when Tom interviewed him in February, and he seemed genuinely interested in Michigan. I just haven't heard anything about him in a few months, and was wondering if anyone had any insight on his situation? He's a 6'5, 260 lb 4 star DT, and seems like he'd fit in well.
athlete to visit without an offer. I don't think the staff would need him to camp to get an offer given the depth of his offer sheet already. This might say more about where we are at with other DL...I hope.
I went to Lima Senior, so I am not a fan of Lima Central Catholic. That is probably why I haven't felt the urge to attend any of the Tyler's games to see what he is about. Every since he has been on Michigan's radar, I have wanted to find out as much as I could about him. I have no problem with kids from small programs getting a shot, if you got talent you deserve it. I just don't know if the kid Michigan ready, that is to say, D-1 ready! The point was made earlier about every kid having highlights and that is what they send to various coaches in hopes of being looked at. If Hoke saw enough to want to bite, he would have had him already IMO. That was not the point of the original post, it was "why not". Well, let's ask why him over Kelly? I am just rambling a little...because if we are just looking at a few clips of kids and wishing, then I want Kelly. That is, of course, Kiel is not coming and Pike doesn't wake up and say "I want to be a Wolverine!"
I live in Elida ohio, It is a suburb of Lima.. which Tyler playes for Lima Central Catholic. I think the reason behind it all is that LCC is such a small school. Division 4. I know the kids family, they are all very respectable people. I know academically he would be a great fit. Just don't know if coming from such a small school to such a large school how he would do.
Maty Mauk is on a Division 4 team too though. I almost wonder if Mauk is better suited for a spread offense in college. Tyler O'conner looks like he would have less of a learning curve in Borges' offense. IMO
LCC is division 5, and yes kenton is div. 4
That outside of Kiel and Mauk, we still have offers out to a couple of other uncommitted prospects. According to the 2012 Offer Board, we have offers out to Bennie Coney (who's placed us in his top five), Jake Rodrigues and Devin Fuller.
I have nothing concrete to back this up other then I try and follow recruiting as much as possible, but I wouldn't get hopes up for any of those three.
It's more likely we get a backup plan like O'Connor or Appleby assuming we miss on Kiel and Mauk.
Has anyone seen video of Rodrigues? I have not. Just curious what his game looks like.
But the kid has a serious strike against him: if he ends up as the starter after DG leaves, would anyone feel comfortable refering to "the Rodrigues Era" of Michigan football?
i think a big knock on him would be that he plays division 5 in ohio...my brother played against him in the playoffs and he is a very good player, but the speed at every position isn't there in division 5 like it is in divisions 1 and 2