There's no need to insert a running quarterback if the existing quarterback(s) can learn to run the read option. Forcier kept the ball way too many times last year when the defensive end was staying home, and the coaches didn't even bother running the option with Denard, presumably because the game was moving too fast for him.
Why Devin Gardner Will Not Redshirt
compelling in the fact that we saw what happens to true-frosh QBs. I have no doubt DG will be dynamic is his time but Tate and Shoelace will have to struggle mightily for us to see DG this season. That being said, I do expect him to for #16 to a hybrid position in 2011.
that HE was moving to fast for the game?
I'm not sure you actually watched any games last season.
Are you gonna go on a whim and Raback this statement?
Not sure if I'm confident enough to Raback it, no. Just an opinion.
Kudos to you if you are correct, but I just don't see this being beneficial. Under your theory DG will be wasted on plays when the opposition pretty much knows all of the plays in which he is capable of performing w/o death. Which IMO isnt that much vastly different then D-Rob last year. Thus it would be a waste of a full year of eligibility.
Again, guys. Read what I wrote before you criticize it. I said Tate would start and Gardner would play like Robinson did last year.
Man, at least accompany your posts with a tl;dr
I'm not even sure Devin Gardner would be better than Denard2.0.
I do agree, it's likely the RS doesn't happen.
you are already assuming that an incoming freshman with 15 practices is going to be a better option than someone who has an entire year under his belt...No way I may be wrong but I just dont see it.
How are you so sure that Gardner will be better than Tate who already has a season under his belt?
Did you read it or just skim? I said Tate would be the starter and Gardner would come in much like Robinson did last season.
I dont see the point in burning his redshirt for spot duty. Redshirting him gets him time to learn and workout but it also gets him another year of separation from Tate and D-Rob. There is no point in having him come in like D-Rob did last year, when we still have D-Rob to do that.
But assuming true freshman Gardner is better than true sophomore Robinson, which isn't too far fetched, would mean that we could end up with more wins next season with Gardner playing 30% of the snaps.
Does Gardner check down to Odoms against Iowa? It could make the difference between a seven win season and a nine win season, and with his job on the line I think that's a chance RichRod takes.
It is pretty far fetched, IMO, that a true freshman would play better than a true sophomore who saw extensive time as a true freshman. This would be bad as it signals that D-Rob is not progressing and would speak more about D-Rob than Gardner in my opinion.
Did you watch Robinson last year? He was brought in as a running quarterback, and that's all he really is. His lack of passing skills cost us games last season.
And I'm not so sure. It's my opinion, which is kind of the point of the boards in the off-season.
caused us to lose gameS (plural) then you are out of your F*CKING mind.
Iowa. That's all I have to say. If he checks down there's a fantastic chance that we win that game.
I said gameSSSSSSSS PLURALLLLLLLLLLL
READING COMPREHENSION MUCH!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!!??!
Also what in the FLYING EXPLICATIVE makes you think that a TRUE FRESHMAN DG will check down in that instance over a Sophomore DR?
I want what you're smoking.
This site is fucking hilarious. This guy gets positive feedback? The guy that uses punctuation like a fourth grader with tourettes?
And I get negbanged to hell for calmly sharing an opinion.
I love reading the content here, but this is a huge part of the reason I like to stay out of the discussions.
Once again, you're failing to understand.
He's getting pos-ed because he's pointing out one of your reading failures.
Gardner is raw and his mechanics are below average; he's maybe a better passer than D-Rob at this stage but below Forcier. Teams at this point won't respect Gardner as a passer and will stack the box, just like they did against D-Rob. Gardner is better off redshirting so he can go through S&C program, work on mechanics, and learn the playbook. Forcier and D-Rob combo should be fine for us this year; Gardner should only be an option if there are injuries.
God help us, because it will likely mean that both Tate and Denard have been injured.
Haha.. you call me a fool and say 6 wins saves his job? So many people will be calling for his head if we don't have a winning record next season.
Speaking of failure at reading comprehension...
"So if you don't think 8 wins this year saves RR, you're a fool. Hell, 7 or 6 wins probably does it."
Please show me the part where he doesn't say six wins will probably save RR's job.
Speaking of failing at reading comprehension..
Don't worry. You'll figure out how to read sometime. It doesn't come naturally for everyone.
Yes, Magnus. I can't read. You got me good on that one.
Negbang away, goons. I haven't been out of line or negative in more than one or two posts since I joined up on MGoBlog, but good lord you disagree with my opinion so go through and hit the down arrow on everything I say.
I smell a meltdown!
I mean, by my count, there are at least three posts that you've failed to comprehend. You're probably not getting negged for your opinion. You're getting negged for your poor reading skills/logic.
I think that he's an idiot and I'm a goon!
One post I got negged on was nothing but an agreement with you, Magnus. Another was me complimenting another poster and saying I agreed with his points.
Even you, the overlord of this board, have got to admit people on here are idiots sometimes.
People looked at your faulty logic and poor reading skills and they started negbanging everything you said, whether it makes sense or not.
That's the way it goes.
If you don't want to be negged, take a break from posting.
don't matter. The boosters matter in a minor manner. Dave Brandon, Mary Sue Coleman, and the people on the INSIDE matter. I have a feeling the insiders knew that they were making a long-term investment when making their decision to completely change the program. As long as he's getting us to a bowl next year, I think he stays, because the insiders in the program understand that this was a radical change, and that continuity is necessary and discontinuity will only set us back another few years.
I agree completely, and hope you're right.
People don't seem to be reading the original post. I'm hoping he doesn't lose his job after a six win season next year. I won't be one of the people calling for his job. I'm just saying if I were him, I'd be putting myself in the best position to win as many games as possible. His mentality is "the best players will play, regardless of age or experience."
If DG is better than DR, he will play. Behind Forcier, and only about 30% of the snaps, but he'll play.
I don't think I agree.
Forcier is much more polished as a QB than DG could possibly be and even if DG has more throwing upside than DR, I don't see him surpassing anyone who has a year of experience on him. He's just too raw and everyone has said his motion is plain terrible.
Just don't see it.
And you say yourself He won't be starting on opening day, and he may not start at all this season,so where is the value of having him burn a year when he can get in all the practice time that everyone else gets and actually perhaps be a polished QB by the time he reaches years 2 or 3?
What makes you think that Denard Robinson's career as a QB is over? He came in, as a true freshman, and made some mistakes. He was using maybe 40% of the playbook, and was put in cold each and every time he played.
You seem to think that DG will be better skilled at passing than Denard after spring practice, but you have no idea how Denard has progressed since the few times we saw him last season, or with some spring practice himself.
I don't really understand why Denard has been written off by so many different people. Most of the time Rich Rod talks about QBs, he refers to both Tate and Denard. While this may be coachspeak, it's something that you can't straight up ignore.
Denard was HORRIBLE at passing the ball. Seriously. Horrible.
He's not an option at quarterback, except for random craziness like last year. And if he plays at quarterback at all this year, it's because a) Forcier got hurt and/or b) the coaches want to redshirt Gardner.
I completely agree that he was an awful passer. But you aren't going to take into account that he came in cold, in the middle of games, with a small percentage of the playbook at his disposal, with less practice than most true freshmen that start (as he wasn't the first-team guy)?
To me he was hard to evaluate. He can throw a football pretty well in the most literal sense. On the other hand he looked totally lost when it came to decision-making. Maybe a light bulb will go off.
"Lost" is a very good description of what he was.
I agree 100%. He's got the arm strength, and accuracy wasn't horrendous. I think when it comes to decision making, it'll be more time looking at film, and in practice. He was a true freshman...these things will come with time. Of course, he's not afforded MUCH time, but to write him off after a year, it just rubs me the wrong way.
Okay...he was "Horrible" where only the first letter is capitalized rather than the entire word.
is in immediate danger of losing his job that playing a pure freshman QB—whose passing skills are far more raw than Forcier's were at the same stage of their development—is going to save it.
Rich Rod will coach his game irrespective of the temperature of his seat.
A variable: The coaches will have to want to use a change-up QB. They might not.
Another: Gardner would have to be better than Robinson even though Robinson has a big jump on him in terms of experience.
Final assessment: Gardner plays if a.) the coaches want to use a change-up QB and b.) Gardner is better than Robinson and c.) he's enough better that burning his redshirt is merited, i.e., the difference between what he brings and what Robinson brings is a greater contribution to the team than an extra year of eligility would be...I understand your point about Rodriguez being willing to sacrifice the future for the sake of 2010, and we can agree to disagree, but I don't think Rodriguez is feeling the heat nearly as much as the media would make it out. Michigan is going to be patient and he knows it, IMO.
Wonderful, well thought out reply. I agree on all points.
I understand what you are saying. It would be nice to see DG in next year, even in spot duty. I think the ceiling is high for DG. HOWEVA, at this point I don't know if it is worth it to burn his redshirt just for 10 plays a game. DG's passing didn't look that great in the state title game or the UA game. It is possible that DG improves a lot during the spring. It would seem like it would need to be a HUGE improvement to justify having DG see the field. We all have to trust the coaches on this. I would like to see DG redshirt. But if RR decides he is ready then we should support the decision.
After watching last season, who can say that playing a freshman QB is the way to get 9 or 10 wins? Rich Rod can keep his job with a bowl game, and the offense will improve with experience and time. Devin Gardner is not the answer, and one cannot simply assume that his throwing mechanics will get better over 9 months.
I get that he is a great physical talent, but that won't win you any games above what Rich Rod can get with two sophomores with playing experience. Denard and Tate will both get better in the offseason, and I would rather take a knowledgeable, experienced and slightly-less athletic QB over an athletic, raw, and confused one. With Tate having a better grasp of the offense, there won't be the need for a Denard-like player to come in and "mix things up."
Rich Rod won't have anything to gain by burning Devin's redshirt, even if he wants to win now. Playing Gardner will only hurt the team.
I just don't see how this would improve a hypothetical 6-6 or 5-7 season. Tate and Robinson are both more experienced than Gardner. I believe that its a stretch to assume that Gardner's passing skills will be better than Robinson's in the fall.
I also believe a FAIL season will have more to do with the D than the O.
Okay, let's be realistic... When is the last time one quarterback took every snap?
Another quarterback IS going to play. That's all but guaranteed. It's just a matter of whether it's Denard, Gardner, or Jones.
Shoot...I eat old men for breakfast.
Wait a minute...
Im here for the negbang
The OP has a decent point or two, and I personally don't think Gardner is going to redshirt. He can bring something to this team that isn't there. He's more of a power, shaky runner than Denard's pure dilithium speed. In an ideal world, he redshirts, but if you've watched any Michigan sports in the past ever, you know we don't live in an ideal world.
I'm going to shut this down to prevent an unnecessary negbanging.