What's the problem here? It's just some good old fashioned in-state rivalry trash talking. It's funny because it's true.
Maybe because that's exactly how they feel.
MSU really does act like a punk little brother, even when they win. They just do.
This is 100% true. They may be all grow'd up but they still act like an immature child.
I would prefer if he hadn't said it.
However, how come there was never any blowback for Caulcrick and Ringer that talked trash on the "Little Brother" topic the Friday before the game in the State News, that precipitated Hart's trash talk?
But you can't grow out of being the little brother.
You do it by not acting like the little brother any more. In my family, my youngest uncle fell out of the little brother role probably twenty years ago. In part this was because his older brother had his own struggles, but it was largely because my younger uncle was his own man and stopped defining himself in relation to his brother.
For the Michigan State fanbase, they could stop treating Michigan like it was the only game on their schedule. They could stop thinking that a one-win season would be considered a success if Michigan was the one win. They could stop getting more joy out of Michigan's struggles than they do out of their own successes.
I don't actually see the Michigan State fanbase doing this, though.
I've lurked here for awhile, and it seems like you (not you in particular, but "you" in general) spend a lot of time talking about how MSU doesn't matter to you and debating just how much they're still Little Brother. If things were as you say they are, wouldn't it be an unspoken truth? I mean, it's not like you have threads about how inferior Eastern Michigan is compared to UM.
What makes you think that Michigan State "[treats] Michigan like it was the only game on their schedule", and that "a one-win season would be considered a success if Michigan was the one win"? We just won the Rose Bowl, and people are talking about the potential of making the first college football playoff. It seems to me that being arrogant about MSU's perceived inferiority is such an integral part of your identity as a UM fan, you're finding it difficult to adjust your expectations now that we're a legitimate threat. I'm not trying to be provocative, but it does seem remarkably strange that in this particular offseason, you're still convinced that our goal is just to beat UM, that nothing else matters. We went to the Rose Bowl, and didn't have any Michigan-themed signs; you went to the Sugar Bowl, and prominently displayed a sign taunting Michigan State. I'll let you draw your own conclusions from that regarding the mindset of the respective fanbases, but I'm not sure your characterization of our fanbase is entirely accurate.
So you're not Little Brother, but you've lurked HERE for a while. Got it.
PS the Sugar Bowl sign was in response to the whining of Kirk Cousins and numerous members of your fan base.
I also hang out on Black Heart Gold Pants, Off Tackle Empire, Hammer and Rails, Bucky's 5th Quarter, the Daily Gopher, etc.
Does that make Michigan State Little Brother to Iowa, Purdue, Wisconsin, Minnesota, and the Big Ten as a whole? We have plenty of Wolverines who comment on TOC quite regularly; does that mean that you're Little Brother?
I can't speak to that, because this is the only football blog on which I spend any time. In any case, that line was mostly in jest. I just thought it looked a little funny coming onto a Michigan blog to explain why you're not Little Brother.
I do occasionally read the comments on ESPN or Freep stories, and here's what I see a lot of: sometimes over half the comments are from State fans, either whining about the fact that there's a Michigan article at all, like the media's just supposed to forget one of the largest fan bases in the country because Sparty won their first Rose Bowl in a quarter century, or reflexively dismissing it as "typical hype", as if a string of losses to MSU means the Michigan program has just been permanently, fundamentally broken and can simply never rise again. Comment as a Michigan fan something as inocuous as, "Yeah, I like our defense, think they could be pretty good this year," and you're liable to be set upon by four or five patrolling MSU fans waiting to pile on with, "LOL whatever you say, Walvie ZOMGsldfk!!!!!11!!!1!!!1111!!!," like Michigan fans aren't even allowed to display optimism anymore. Sure, there will always be fans acting like that anywhere, but on any Michigan story you'll find an inordinate number of MSU lunatics doing it.
I attend Michigan State and have lived in Columbus, and it's just not the same. OSU fans are obnoxious because they can and will turn any conversation into how great Buckeye football is. MSU fans are obnoxious because they can and will turn any conversation into a Michigan-obsessed bitch-fest.
You attend Michigan State, openly cheer for Michigan and call Michigan State Little Brother, and complain that they talk about Michigan negatively around you? Is that surprising?
Look, every fanbase has its bad eggs. But trying to judge the mindset of a fanbase based on comments on the Freep is an exercise in futility. My friends who cheer for Michigan in real life are very pleasant people, in general; online, it's impossible to log in without some fluff piece followed by UM fans crowing about returning to glory, Peppers' imminent Heisman, and putting Little Brother in his place. It goes both ways. If you speak logically and reasonably, chances are good you will find like-minded people on both sides of the fence who genuinely want to talk football. If you talk about how Little Brother only cares about Michigan, how Nuss is going to hang a hundred on Sparty, and how Peppers is going to win all the Heismans, you'll attract similar extremists wearing green and white.
I actually think MSU fans talk about Peppers more than Michigan fans do, and we talk about him a lot. Their obsession with him is worse than Michgan fan's obsession with him. So little brother.
That's simply not true. You guys talk about Peppers...rather often. It might be some form of attentional bias on your part, honestly. If you talk about Michigan all the time, you'll likely see corresponding conversations when presented with a large sample size from other fanbases. It also probably explains why I tend to notice the frequency of MSU threads on here, when there are likely less than I perceive.
Head over to RCMB and get back to me. They actually had a thread titled something to the effect of "Michigan's depth chart." Someone made a depth chart with offense pitted against defense and it had Peppers at every position. Someone literally took the time to make fun of Michigan's fans' obsession with Peppers by creating a depth chart with him at every position. And I'm not talking about a regular listing of his name, it is a depth chart with little circles and x's in position on the field where they would play and it has Peppers name at every position. Every thread on that site has at least one mention of Peppers playing every position. There is a thread about Nebraska being a tough game that has mention of Peppers.
I wasn't joking - I think MSU fans bring up Peppers more than Michigan fans. They bring him up when the topic isn't even Michigan.
You're making a couple assumptions here:
1. I'm not what you'd call "college-aged", I am pursuing my Master's. I have my own social circle, so I don't really converse, especially about sports, with classmates at MSU. I don't live in East Lansing, I'm there a few hours a week to do what I'm there to do, and I go home. No one there has any idea who I root for or whether I even care about college sports.
2. I actually don't care for the whole "Little Brother" thing. I just think it's amazing how angry it still seems to make MSU fans. I certainly wouldn't consider the team "Little Brother" right now anyway, for obvious reasons. But the fan base? I definitely won't object to other Michigan fans using that term to refer to them, because it's how 95% of you, and your coach, act. Mark Dantonio hadn't coached a down of football against Michigan as the head coach of MSU, the program he took over was on an 0-for-5 stretch against Michigan and had its own history of embarrassing losses to teams no one's heard of, yet he couldn't resist a cheap shot after Appalachian State. HIS players then introduce the term "Little Brother". Then, after his team loses at home to Michigan that year, he chooses to both A, have an indignant, butt-hurt hissy fit over Michigan players mocking the cheap shot HE took at them to begin with, and then B, get down in the muck with a 21 year-old student athlete who was taking his players up on the "Little Brother" talk. If that isn't Sparty behavior to the hilt, I don't know what is. I reiterate that I don't really care for the "Little Brother" slam, but if the shoe fits...
Also, Michigan can't help what the media write about them. Outlets are going to do what sells issues or attracts clicks. I would prefer they fly under the radar right now myself, but I don't really have any control over ESPN or SI, unfortunately.
You just said "I don't care", then went on a paragraph long rant about why you care.
I don't care FOR the term, i.e. I don't use it in conversation. That's not the same as "I don't care ABOUT it" or don't have an opinion. I'll put it in the simplest phrasing possible, which I admit I should have done sooner: do I wish Michigan players and fans would stop using "Little Brother"? Yes. Do I, at the same time, feel that most MSU coaches, players, and fans possess a burning inferiority complex and fixation with Michigan? Absolutely.
about inferiority. When you are o.k. with yourself, no matter what anyone else thinks, you don't have to go hunting for something to place on your mantel. It's people like you that keep lil bro from growing up to be recognized in equal adult standing.
Unfortunately, it takes more than a few years to be recognized as an equal, and even moreso to be regarded as an "elite" program. It takes decades, and in our case over a century.
We've had periods where MSU dominated before, most particularly when they first joined the conference. Since that time, under Duffy, etc., they've shown signs of hitting full stride but they somehow can't maintain it. I'll go on record if you're still winning against us as the same clip in say 2022 I'll recognize you as being legit.
Enjoy your current success. Let your team speak for you and the fans won't have to. If you really were an "elite" program I know a coach in Alabama who would still be in EL. Further needn't be said.
I typically try to stay out of the MSU talk because I grew up around South Bend and so I had to deal with Domers all the time. The UM-MSU rivalry never really meant anything to me until college and even though we went 4-0 while I was there I grew to hate the rivalry itself because the student section was imposible to tolerate. I agree that the average MSU fan seems to be...less well informed about things, either intentionally or unintentionally. But I also only deal with the Michigan fans on this site and I'm sure we have idiots just as bad.
It doesn't seem like he is trolling at all. He seems like one of the most reasonable Spartan fans I have heard. It would be nice to have a good conversation at times. I once had some Spartan fans try to convince me that Spartans were Romans, though, so to be fair I have low expectations.
That was all very well-reasoned and thoughtfully worded Avant, especially considering your South Bend roots, but truthfully:
I have NEVER even logged onto RCMB or any other Spartan or Buckeye site. I don't care what they're saying about us, and any info I need about our prospects vs them on the field/court will be provided on this site in depth, with as much realism and humility as is possible among people with Michigan educations and a passion for Michigan athletics.
So when either Spartans or Buckeyes log on here to tell us they've been "lurking" to catch us in our hypocrisy, or to give us reality checks on our recent histories vs them (in case we'd forgotten, as if we could) there isn't really any other response possible than "little brother" or "troglodyte".
I'll ignore them, and promise they'll never hear from me again - if they'll only GO AWAY!
See, but that's the problem. When you look for information "with as much realism and humility as possible", but only get your information from extremely biased sources and only discuss that information with extremely partisan parties (who all agree with you), it leads to a perpetual cycle of groupthink and increasing levels of departure from reality. When you shun other perspectives by simply dismissing them as inane ramblings of a "little brother" or a "troglodyte" and ban them because they're trolling (that is, not agreeing with you), you're dismissing valuable information that could actually help you form a more nuanced and objective perception of reality. You don't get all your world news from one news source, right? Why would you do it for football?
I mean, it's fine you don't care about what we say about you. You shouldn't. I don't care much either - I've avoided posting in a large number of "Lil Bro" bashing topics on here for a long time, so it's not like I'm personally offended by it. I didn't come here to troll or to offend you in turn. But when someone mentioned how we only care about Michigan, and a 1-11 season would be great if we beat Michigan...well, considering where we're at right now, it honestly sounds a bit silly. I know not everyone here thinks like that, and I'm always impressed by some of the rational discussion that goes on here regarding the conference, but I can only assume he's trying to soften the blow of the past season by taking comfort in the idea that "they may have success, but they still only think about Michigan!"
Unfortunately, it's simply not true. To me, it sounds a bit like the Spartans who, under JLS, would celebrate when UM stumbled against OSU, as though it was some sort of moral victory. Sure, we hate Michigan, but as evidenced by the general vitriol directed at me on here, the feeling is mutual. We also hate Ohio State and Wisconsin and Notre Dame - there's plenty to go around. Ultimately, that's a good thing, and I'm not fooling myself into thinking I'll be able to change your perspective in a couple paragraphs. I'm just saying, right now, we're focused on far more than beating Michigan. That game is important to us, and always will be important, but I guarantee you more Spartans are thinking about Oregon, about a Big Ten Championship, and about getting to the playoffs than about beating Michigan alone.
Little brother is a mindset and it is strong with the MSU fanbase. They go out of their way to be hypocritical when it comes to Michigan. Remember when all MSU fans were saying Mitch McGary wouldn't be good if he came back for his Junior year because he only had 5 good games in the tournament? And then they can't stop being offended when Connor Cook isn't mentioned as one of the best QBs in the B10 because the best football he played was the last 2 games of the season, completely ignoring the fact that he couldn't get the offense past midfield until the 4th quarter against Pur-fucking-due? Or remember when they dismiss recruiting rankings becuase "Michigan has always recruited better, so they don't mean anything," all the while forgetting that "always recruiting better" had gotten Michigan to rattle off 6 straight wins against MSU? Or remember when MSU fans keep spouting off about Brady Hoke doing nothing while at UM, conveniently forgetting that he has a better record at UM than Dantonio had at MSU after 3 years, and that Dantonio actually got worse as his first 3 years passed (and don't say anything about having a worse team to start out with, because as every Spartan fan will tell you, Dantonio likes lower rated guys and he coaches them up, so either Dantonio couldn't coach up those specific recruits or he needed to get some of his own guys in to start winning). My personal favorite is MSU fans constantly, and I mean constantly, talking about September heisman winners at UM when they had the first August heisman in history when Bell ran well agains Boise State.
This is why MSU will always be little brother. They are completely irrational when it comes to anything Michigan related because they have so much hate. They can't stop feeling slighted, even when they come off a Rose Bowl victory. They have numerous threads on every MSU website about Desmond Howard ranking Michigan highly. Little brother isn't about your athletic program, it's about the mindset of everyone that goes there. You are the Rodney Dangerfield's of college sports and you will never get rid of that.
Again, you're projecting what was probably heard once or twice to apply to the collective opinion of the Michigan State fanbase, but fine. I didn't come here to troll, but if it's impossible to speak reasonably without resorting to name-calling...well, I'll try to avoid it anyway. In response to your platitudes about MSU always being little brother, I'll just have to remain content in our success while you work yourself into a tizzy about it.
Once or twice? OK MSU fan on a Michigan website. Maybe you should stroll over to some of your own MSU boards more often. You will see it is quite a bit more than once or twice.
And LOL about the name calling. This whole fucking thread is about a Michigan player calling MSU little brother. I'm sorry you are offended being called little brother, but what did you expect when you came into this thread? An MSU slurpfest about how no one should ever say such awful things about MSU because they are so good at football?
I can see you are completely content with your success though. You are so content, you have to post on a Michigan board to tell everyone how content you are. You are much more high and mighty though because you didn't resort to name calling. Way to pat yourself on the back.
He fought, won, lost, and bled for Michigan (under TONS of scrutiny) in ways you didn't and will
And after having his neck twisted during a game he can say what he wants...
if denard's only calling them little brother after almost having his head unscrewed, sparty should chalk that as a victory. I could run off a thousand expletives that haven't even been created yet to call a team whose player tried to yank my head off and then check-hooked my best offensive lineman...
what exactly did Denard ever do against michigan state to call them little brother? I think that is the problem...
i didn't think of it that way, considering his production against them. whatever the case may be, fugg 'em. that's still sparty...
He went to Michigan.
Why can't we just always beat them?
Because Mike Valenti paid him to do it.
I mean seriously, just imagine all the mouth-breathers that will be calling in to 97.1 on Monday. It's gonna be a pretty big boost for revenue
They'll always be little brother because we were born first.
what exactly should we call ohio state?
what do buckeyes and their fans call michigan? whatever they say, we should return the favor. that's why it's called a volley of insults, right?
Here in Columbus when referring to Michigan, some popular insults are: "scUM," "That School Up North," "Bitchigan."
However, the favorite insults are always:
"Ann Arbor is a whore!"
Essentially, all their "creative insults" were seemingly formulated by a group of middle schoolers. That being said, I don't see any point in "returning the favor" because their insults are just dumb.
Why can't Michigan fans like you just keep quiet? Why do Denard's comments bother you so much? Seriously, what is the problem? You think that since MSU has enjoyed a recent run of success that all comments should be reverent? That we should all treat MSU as an equal? Seriously, why do you care?
It was a topic for discussion, you know, like how a message board is supposed to work. You cared enough to click and respond
You're a great man and wonderful representation of The University of Michigan.
but it was Mark Dantonio who used the term first. Hart's comment was made in response to Dantonio's.
Exactly, Michigan didn't create the term in relation to MSU. We just ran with it.
At the Monday press conference before his first UM game, he asked:
"How long are we going to be the little brother?"
Hart just picked up on it.
After State blew a 10 point 4th quarter lead at home.
It's not the current team, so it shouldn't be that big of a deal as far as locker room motivation.
Plus the title will fit again soon!
Because they are our little brother. And like your little brother, they will be put back in their place!
Beyond that, it's sports, it's talk. It won't change a thing.
Chill out bro. Not that serious.
Idk why some M fans have convinced themselves that not trash talking your rival somehow decreases their desire to destroy you. It doesn't. You won't see 'Bama fans telling players to not spew venom at Auburn because they lost last year. If they lost 10 years in a row, you STILL wouldn't see it. This is a sports rivalry and there are no rules that say you can't call your rival a piece of shit because they have the upper hand. Your rival is always a piece of shit. No matter what. That's the rule.
"say it with your chest!"
YOUR RIVAL IS ALWAYS A PIECE OF SHIT!!