Because rewarding hard work, no matter who you are, is an important principle to have instilled in your football team. It's worth way more than Gardner's redshirt.
frank beamer #1
Because rewarding hard work, no matter who you are, is an important principle to have instilled in your football team. It's worth way more than Gardner's redshirt.
+1000 if I could Ike. I was going to post at the bottom this exact same thing.
Rich Rod is clearly a coach who believes in extremely hard work and frowns upon entitlement. It seems like he is trying to run more of a meritocracy than most coaches in college football do. If he told DG that if he busts his ass he will have a chance to start or be the number two quarter back (which he said he did), then RR is a man of his word. You can't tell everyone on your team that if you work hard enough, prepare, and are ready to see the field that you will have an opportunity to play, and then make exceptions for elite recruits or players it would be more convenient to redshirt.
With TP his freshmen year, I'm afraid a promise was made to gain Devin coming here. It happens all the time now at larger schools. I know Meyer was telling him he would play from the get go in the swamp.
It is a fine line between playing and not playing. Rich Rod wants everyone ready to play. If the kid has earned the right to play, then so be it. It just seems that everyone assumes the Shoelace will be around for the next 2 years after this one. (I certainly hope so!) But you never can be prepared enough. Let him play, he has earned it, it creates competition, and he gets meaningful game experience....
DG is Terrelle Pryor 2.0. He has the best arm of all 3 of our QB's and is ahead of where TP was as a Frosh (IME). He seems slower than Tate because he takes big strides like Pryor --- His problem today was thinking he could outrun people laterally like he could in High School instead of running North-South like Tate was and DRob has thus far this year.
Perhaps you should wait until your first full week as a member before straightening us all out.
PS Then >< than
about the Pryor comparison, either. I agree that the Pryor/Young comparisons are largely due to similar body types and stride length, and from what I've seen Gardner seems to be noticeably slower (or at least less explosive) than both. Now, that's not to say he won't be a great QB. I think he has the ability to become a much more polished passer than either Pryor or Young.
Did you see Gardner's deep ball that was dropped? It was a thing of beauty, and an exceptional throw for anybody - especially a freshman. He looks a little tentative on his feet, but I was very impressed by his TD run at the end of the game. Hurdling that last defender was pretty sweet.
It's just you.
I think the Same things were being said about Tate after 4 games last year. A lot can happen over 3 years. Players improve, regress, get injured, go pro, struggle with academics. I hope he does, but you never know.
ok. for fuck's sake: both Denard and Tate got injured today... would you rather have Jack Kennedy on the field or Devin Gardner? Fortunately, neither injury appears to be serious, but anything could happen at any time. Right now, miraculously, it seems that all three guys are totally committed to michigan and acting as one big happy family. enjoy the fuck out of that, because it's an unreal luxury for a team to have that depth.
as things unfold, it seems pretty clear that Rich knows what he has in Tate, and to give him little bits of playing time doesn't really do much, whereas getting Devin any kind of game experience is invaluable to his progression. Devin, whenever the future turns out to be, IS that. He's definitely got the talent to play. It was great to see him stand tall in the pocket and deliver those strikes. He'll be good. But if, for example, Denard's injury were more serious, you can bet your ass that Tate would be the new starter. Devin would take on, I bet, a role similar to Denard last year, but with more of a pass threat.
everyone needs to chill the fuck out, and thank our lucky stars that we've got this kind of quality depth at QB. it's absurd. definitely the best situation in the country.
at this point, i couldn't care less about redshirts and future eligibility. This offense has the potential to be unreal. Denard is unreal... i can't even say how much glee it brings me to have a guy like that playing for us, and not against us. But it's also pretty great to see your #3 guy come in and complete all 12 of his passes. he and Roundtree have a connection.
this was the exact bounce-back game i was hoping for. The D will cost us a few games in the B10, and I'm sure there'll be at least one off-day for Denard and the offense, but 8-4 seems more than likely.
both Denard and Tate got injured today... would you rather have Jack Kennedy on the field or Devin Gardner?
When you're up by 30 points, Jack Kennedy can do just fine.
was everything I hoped it would be.
I think I used up my allotment of up-votes for the day.
I agree in the spread offense you need at least 3 QBs. Both DROB and Tate were slightly injured during the game. I'd rather have Gardner ready to take over. He needs some more game experience but his arm looks really good. He doesn't have the speed of DROB but may be able to scramble and learn to throw on the run.
RR will probably get another big spread QB recruit in '11, so I think we will be fine having Gardner start in his senior season. But who knows how Gardner will develop. May be he will challenge DROB next season? Or he may be he will be lucky to hold off his underling during his senior season? Only time will tell. In RR system there is no guarantees being the starter based on your seniority or what you did the previous season. May the best QB start and right now that is DROB!
My opinion probably won't be seen by most people, it's at the bottom of the page, but I think, and I hate to compare our twoo schools, with the progression of Denard to Devin, we have the same situation as Florida does.
Tim Tebow: Running QB, accurate arm, many obsolete backs to support him.
John Brantley: Taller build, pocket passer type, strong arm. same obsolete backs to help him out.
Now, here's saying we don't look like Florida when the 'Nard dawg is gone.
here's hoping it's homage to the funkified horriblosity this is Blaha and his greasy-ass combover.
...that maybe, just maybe we can recruit another Devin Gardner/Denard Robinson? Why are we thinking Rich Rod cant recruit another QB that can run his system? We currently have three.
Do you want to let the coach run his program and win games or not? I wish Gardner had redshirted too, but at some point I feel you have to trust the coach to do the right thing to win games, which, believe me, is the only thing we all care about anyway. USC is one program I can point to where some players only start one year of their career, but they gain valuable experience playing in spots while they're young...Mark Sanchez comes to mind.
Over the last couple years the opinions of some people on here are ridiculous!!!! Stop wasting our time!!!!
In two years or maybe even next year, I won't be surprised to see Gardner and Denard in the backfield together with Gardner running the read-option. That is one hell of a duo to defend.
I actually have a new idea that hasn't been suggested yet. I think that RR knows that there are many HS QB's around the country watching Denard run crazy, knowing that they could do the same thing at Michigan - only better. At WVU, RR got great QB's but the overall exposure and team talent was less than at UM. Now, RR believes he will have the nation's #1 running QB often. By the time Gardner is a true senior, there will be a freshman or sophomore QB who is potentially better. Why save Gardner for that extra year when there will already be a better replacement pushing to play. QB is not where we need redshirts.
The best running QB's in the nation will be paying a whole heckuva lot more attention to UM as Denard's stats keep piling up. We will be rich with talented QB's for the foreseeable future.
Defending the original post: we have new info after seeing Tate (who looked better than Gardner to me), so it is legit to bring it up again. I was interested in seeing people's thoughts about this after the game. I'm glad the topic was posted.
Denard was a litte banged up as was Tate and we havn't played in the Big Ten yet. Devin is going to be needed and it's better to get experience in non-conf games than in the 4th quarter of a tie game against Sparty.
1. DG enrolled early do you think he will stay 5 1/2 years especially if he becomes as good as we believe he can become.
2. Denard and Tate both nicked up.
3. RR offers the opportunity to come in and compete for playing time.
4. Per Tate's dad, "we knew there would be some form of discipline."
5. Game experience just in case it is needed.
From all accounts, Devin has come in and worked his a__ off and has earned his playing time. It was obvious that when Tate came in the pace of the offense picked up, but that's what an extra year and 12 college starts will do for you. Think about the huge difference in Denard's play this year from last year and imagine what could be if Devin makes the same jump. To have three QB's this good on the roster is a blessing after the last two years is a blessing enjoy it.
When he "burned" Tebow's redshirt the year Florida won the National Championship....
Why not stay in the present and see that it is beneficial to get a talented player in the game...
And lets not forget that the point is that Michigan needs to win now... not plan for 2012. Winning now makes it easier to recruit.... then perhaps we can find another qb with talent so that some can complain about burning redshirts...
So RR lives up to his words to his recruits, encourages and rewards hard work from the players, and reloads talent.
Works for me.
That Denard is so good he's keeping our talented star QB recruit on the bench.
Now, back to complaining about the defense!
(If the Net had been as big in '98 - why did we burn Drew Henson's redshirt when we had Tom Brady?!?)
The Brady/Henson situation was completely different.
Yes, it was different - we had more QB depth then than we do now. Tom Brady was the starter, Scott Dreisbach was a backup with a ton of experience, and Jason Kapsner was a redshirt sophomore (and former blue-chip recruit). It was not necessary for Henson to play. But we promised him that he wouldn't redshirt, so he didn't.
People need to stop obsessing about the year 2014 and look at the here and now. We run an offense in which the QB is going to get nicked up on occasion. (I don't think the odds of serious injury are much elevated, but the chances of minor injury probably are.) Having only two guys is playing with fire. If Sheridan were still around, he could have been that third guy to offer injury insurance. But he's not, so Gardner plays.
Henson played because he practiced and played well enough to earn playing time. Devin practiced better than Tate and worked harder, and earned his second spot. I would think a football coach would know how corrosive to a team it is when the players who earn playing time are passed up by those who haven't earned it. Players can see that. And every indication from the coaches was that Devin was playing a lot closer to Denard than Tate. Did one game against BG seem to show different? Sure, but coaching by fortune telling is not good for team morale.
And every indication from the coaches was that Devin was playing a lot closer to Denard than Tate
I don't think this is necessarily true. What evidence do you have that's the case, other than Devin getting snaps when Denard has been dinged up? The coaches seemed to be pretty non-committal about how they had the quarterbacks ranked, and practice observers stated that Tate was running the offense better than Devin.
Although I can understand the rationale for burning the redshirt, I gotta agree with Magnus (and I believe Brian seems to be in this camp as well).
If I'm looking to drink alone, and I have 3 excellent (and expensive) bottles of wine that I've been saving, I won't open all three at the same time. I'll start with one. If that gets me to where I want to be (a good buzz) I may follow it up by having a beer or two, saving the others for another time.
If I finish the first and decide I'm not that drunk, or a friend stops by, I may open the second. After that I'm pretty drunk and it may be difficult to fully appreciate the third bottle. If it's a really special occassion or I'm trying to get laid or another friend stops by, sure, I'll open the third. But otherwise (I'm drunk, or the game is in garbage time) I'll go with Kennedy/Natty Light and save the third for when I need it. I would hate to be trying to impress a girl the next week and only have Natty Light because I wasn't spreading the wealth for the future.
You don't need to come up with tortured analogies. It isn't complicated: you need three available QBs in this offense. Last year, the third guy was Sheridan. This year it's Devin.
Remind me again - when did we NEED Sheridan last year?
I'm not sure why this debate is even happening, to be honest. If Denard and Tate continue to progress the way that they have, it's perfectly reasonable that Devin very well might not be needed next year or the year after and there are, no matter which way you cut it, two years that Devin would not be able to redshirt and thereby lose a year of eligibility waiting on the bench. In other words, just because the redshirt was burned for this year it does not mean that Devin could not be redshirted next year (i.e. Denard/Tate's junior year) or the year after (i.e. Denard/Tate's senior year), so that when both Denard and Tate graduate, Devin still has two years of eligibility left, which is exactly the scenario that would have existed had Devin redshirted this year.
I realize that it is atypical for a player to redshirt in a year other than their freshman year, but given the way that the current QB situation looks to stack up for the next two years, it could happen. It seems like everyone is stuck on the mistaken belief that if he was not redshirted as a freshman, that he could not be redshirted at all. My prediction is that Devin will redshirt next year if he doesn't end up as a medical redshirt this year.
You answer your own question...
I'm not sure why this debate is even happening, to be honest.
I realize that it is atypical for a player to redshirt in a year other than their freshman year
Obviously, it's not typical. My point was more to why the debate is being had the way that it is (i.e. OMG!1!!!1 Devin's redshirt in gone foreverz and he lost a year of eligibility). He was going to lose at least one year of eligibility to Denard or Tate, so it really doesn't matter at all whether that year of eligibility was lost this year, next year or the year after. Frankly, I think using it this year was a brilliant idea because it (1) served as a motiviational tool for Devin to take his preparation this season very seriously, (2) got Devin some experience of what it's like at this level right away and (3) served as a motivational tool for Tate. I'm farily certain that a number of people who has commented on this topic, here and elsewhere, lost sight of the fact that a redshirt is not confined to use during freshman year.
Right, but it rarely happens. Why should any Michigan fan expect that Devin will redshirt in 2011 or 2012? Besides that, Virginia Tech tried to redshirt Tyrod Taylor as a sophomore. Then the Glennon kid got hurt or couldn't do the job, and Taylor ended up playing last year anyway.
If Denard and Forcier can stay healthy this year, it's going to be pointless to have Gardner ready to play. So Gardner's redshirt should have been preserved until/if those guys got injured.
Next year they can do the same thing, but you can't count on the other quarterbacks staying healthy in any given year.
3rd string? If we have Tate and Denard for 2 more years after this, then it becomes easy to redshirt Devin in a later year. Because he won't have to go in. If Tate isn't around, that game experience help, because Devin WILL go in. Someone other than Denard has had to take snaps each game. Rich is dealing with a back-up QB who seems disinterested, has threatened transfer, and who has went from full time starter to seemingly back-up forever. You may count on having Tate for 2 more years. He can't.
I'm sure Rich Rod has weighed the pros and cons of both redshirting as well as playing him in as many snaps as he can this. Have faith in Rodriguez. He has a plan. GO BLUE!!!
Has anyone thought about the fact there will be more QB recruits in the coming years. And, if recruiting goes as well as RR hopes than there will be a lot of QB battles in the coming years. Hopefully, this argument is mute. Competition is necessary when building a program. Look at the humbling lessons this has taught Tate. He learned a lot from sitting back and watching, thus is a better player. Isn't that the purpose of a coach, do whatever it takes to get the most out of his players? Devin has 3 more years for a redshirt. Besides, its better to have 3 QBs than 2.
This redshirt issue might be the most overrated issue/talking point. of the season so far
It exists only for people who like to complain to do so