Who Replaces the Team the Big10 Poaches
I'm bored with all these threads on who we should admit as a member and how the divisions would line up. Let's think into deeper, more pointless speculation instead.
If we poach a BigEast team, who does the BigEast replace that team with? Say we do get Pitt, Syracuse, or Rutgers. That leaves the BigEast with 7 football teams, and they'll almost definitely want to bring it back to an even 8. They'd have two or three general options in poach a MAC/CUSA/WAC/SunBelt team, convince one of their basketball teams that play FCS to be promoted to FBS (live Villanova), or try to strong arm Notre Dame, a BigEast non-football school, into joining in football.
I think they go with the first option with one of UCF, Marshall, or Louisiana Tech (in descending order of desire). UCF doesn't have long term success, but this year might be a sign that good things are on the way. They'd also provide USF a intrastate rival. Marshall would be similar but with West Virginia, it would just less solid recruiting than a school in Florida. Louisiana Tech is a wild card as they could also help expand the BigEast footprint, and I'd see them leaving the WAC pretty quick. Their isolated from the rest of the league as it is by a couple thousand miles.
If we take an ACC team, I think they have to poach someone from Conference USA. I'm not sure they have the prestige to cherry pick from the BigEast anymore. I think the natural choice is East Carolina, but I think they would also take a strong look at Memphis. Memphis would offer better basketball prospects with meh football.
If we were to poach a Big12 school, they've got choices in the Mountain West, particularly TCU, Utah, and BYU, and they've got Houston in CUSA. TCU probably makes the most sense, but I'm not sure they are the best overall package. Utah and BYU offer better across the board athletics. Any of them would be a great pick-up if willing to move. Houston makes a bit of geographical sense, but I don't think their sports programs are big time enough just yet.
If we upgrade a MAC team, things get tough. There aren't any teams in the Midwest really available. The closest one might be fledgling Western Kentucky. The next closest would be Middle Tennessee or Arkansas State. Another option (pun unintended) would be Navy, or even Army. They're not that geographically close, but neither is Middle Tennessee State or Arkansas State.
I don't see us stealing a PAC10, MWC, CUSA, WAC, or SunBelt member, but if you think you could see it happening, I'd be interested to hear what you would do for one of those.
December 15th, 2009 at 3:01 PM ^
ACC? Are you serious?
My guess is Pitt - basing on athletic and academic integrity.
December 15th, 2009 at 3:03 PM ^
Included only because Maryland technically fulfills the AAU and proximity requirements. Like I said, these who could the 12th team be and how do we divide them threads have kind of burnt me out on arguing those.
December 15th, 2009 at 3:04 PM ^
I think we're poaching from the Big East so they're going to be desperate to get someone in ASAP to prevent losing a BCS bowl bid. You mentioned UCF so I'll throw FAU's hat in the ring too. Their numbers are similar to UCF's since 2007:
UCF is 22/16 with 1 C-USA championship and 1 bowl loss (2007). FAU is 20/18 with 1 Sun Belt co-championship (2007) and 2 bowl wins (2007, 2008).
Credit LandonC, he had a good rebuttal to the additional Big East team in FL question:
I just wonder if USF would seriously resist the addition of a fifth BCS school in Florida. USF is still trying to find it's footing, especially in Basketball. I'm not sure they'd appreciate elevating another school in the state of florida when they already have to compete with the Big 3 and every other Division 1 power who try to poach the best talent out of the state. From the Big East's perspective, would they really want two football programs, out of eight that are less than 20 years old (I'd say three, but I don't know how long UConn was 1-AA)? Not only does the Big East need to maintain their 8 teams to remain BCS eligible, they can't risk being seen as a bunch of schools that were non-entities, football wise, until the past 5 years plus Syracuse and WVU.
December 15th, 2009 at 3:17 PM ^
FAU has a new football stadium that is to be unveiled in 2011 or 2012 at the latest as well. I think they'd definitely throw their hat in the ring.
December 15th, 2009 at 3:09 PM ^
let's take FSU while they're down. Then watch the acc poach west virginia from the big east. The big east takes toledo from the mac, and then toledo goes undefeated making ohio state the third best team in that godforsaken state.
We can dream, right?
December 15th, 2009 at 3:10 PM ^
Don't think they could pull ND.
If ND were going to join a conference, then I think the Big Ten would be their best fit. More rivalries, better revenue, etc.
December 15th, 2009 at 3:23 PM ^
I think when promoting a non BCS team, the current state of their football and basketball teams aren't really that important. Just look at Cincinnati. Before they jumped to the Big East, they were never anything to write home about in football and their basketball was good. Louisville, meanwhile looked like they would step right in and be the power in the Big East. Look where those teams are now.
I'd imagine if the Big East/ACC has to reach down and get a non-BCS team, the considerations are going to be more than ECU's football team just won CUSA, or Memphis basketball is normally pretty good. They're going to consider location, tv markets, recruiting hot zones, etc. I'm not sure any of the c-usa/mac schools left really have all that much to offer. It'll be interesting to see what happens.
December 15th, 2009 at 3:30 PM ^
The Big East could take Temple back, or possibly UCF or Memphis. Most of the other non BCS schools east of the Mississippi are either in small markets (East Carolina, most of the MAC), or have only limited appeal even in their own area (like Northern Illinois).
The MAC would probably only be hit by a second tier of poaching - say if Conference USA looking for a new member. My guess is that they'd either stand pat or add a football only member if their football membership dropped below 12.
December 15th, 2009 at 3:38 PM ^
Is everybody forgetting that a couple months ago Memphis announced plans to join one of the BCS conferences?
December 15th, 2009 at 3:53 PM ^
Big East or ACC could talk Navy into joining if ND doesn't want to. Actually, the Big east should take Army and Navy anyway.
Big 12 takes TCU
MAC has 13 teams, so it wouldn't need to add another
December 15th, 2009 at 4:25 PM ^
Both the heads of those service academies have made it clear they want to stay independent to preserve their scheduling freedom (and maximize their chances of picking up 6 wins so they can get their auto bowl games). Army was recently in C-USA and that was a disaster for them. AF is in a different boat because of geography and since they're in a reasonable conference for their resources, they don't have that desire.
I think we're basically looking at either a Big East replacement (another Florida team?) or a Big 12 replacement (battle royale between TCU/Boise St/Utah to get in that payday).
December 15th, 2009 at 3:54 PM ^
TCU in the Big12 would be cool but I don't know where they go if Patterson were to leave sometime but then again if they joined the Big12 that would be a much better job.
I would like the Pac10 to get in on this as well if the Big10 is going to do it. They have some options out there as well. It would be cool to see Boise in the Pac 10.
December 15th, 2009 at 4:27 PM ^
If the Big 10 and Pac 10 in traditional conference solidarity both added schools to get to title games, that would be really cool, but I think Pac-10 is same as us with regards to academics being as much a part of the conference affiliation as athletic success. Wazzou excluded.
December 15th, 2009 at 8:14 PM ^
"Wazzou excluded"?
Seriously? Washington is a very good school. Better than half the Big 10.
I really don't know where this notion comes from that the B10 is academically elite, a sort of Ivy League of the mid west.
When I think of elite academic schools, I definitely do not think of:
OSU
MSU
PSU
Illinois
Indiana
Minnesota
Iowa
That's more than half the conference right there.
As for: U of M, Purdue, N'Western, Wiscy. Yes, good schools. But that's 4 out of 11. That does not make the B10 a strong academic conference.
December 15th, 2009 at 8:25 PM ^
Wazzou=Washington State
December 15th, 2009 at 8:26 PM ^
I agree.
The Pac10 is very similar to the B10 in that they have some very highly regarded academic institutions (Stanford, UCLA, Cal, USC), but the rest don't stick out as that prestigious. They are all decent to above average schools, much like the B10 (except for ASU, which is pretty much a joke.)
December 15th, 2009 at 8:51 PM ^
I did my PhD at ASU, so feel like I gotta say something about this unchecked aggression. Despite the reputation and jokes--Flanders upon seeing Homer carried by a flood: "Heaven must be easier to get into than Arizona State!"--at the undergrad level, ASU is no worse (based on admissions standards or quality of education, from my experience) than MSU or OSU in the Big Ten, or WSU or OSU in the Pac 10. In other words, it doesn't take much more than a pulse and a paycheck to get accepted to any of these schools. So yes, compared to UM they're all a joke. At the grad level (and certain undergrad programs), ASU is as strong and competitive as all but the elite schools in the country.
I know you didn't mean anything by it...just had to stand up for my secondary alma mater.
December 15th, 2009 at 5:11 PM ^
If we poach an ACC team, then the ACC poaches a Big East team, most likely Syracuse since they already wanted them once.
If we poach a Big East team, then they take Memphis from C-USA, and then Troy is upgraded from the Sunbelt.
If we take a Big XII team, then they take either Utah or BYU, and then the MWC looks at Boise, Nevada, Fresno, and Hawaii.
If we take a MAC team, then nothing changes because they already have 13 teams.
December 15th, 2009 at 5:34 PM ^
East Carolina has been semi-decent for awhile now and could probably compete immediately with the lower tier Big East teams. UCF is also a good option. I doubt Notre Dame goes in for football.
The Big East might also look for another good basketball school so they can keep their highly profitable conference tournament at 16 teams. On that note, I could see them trying to get Temple back.
December 15th, 2009 at 6:30 PM ^
This is how I see things:
Big Ten poaches a Big East school to start the domino effect. Now, South Carolina is a former SEC school that is not achieving well in the SEC. Look at football - they've had two of the most successful coaches in recent history fail to gain any traction at the school, and is basketball much better? Clemson, on the other hand is an SEC school in waiting. Switching conferences doesn't affect their schedule at all.
Vanderbilt is the class of the SEC, except on the competitive field. Despite having quality coaches as Stallings and Johnson running the flagship sports, they still struggle. Louisville is a geographic match more with the SEC than the Big East, and would make the rivalry with Kentucky that much more important. Thing about SEC basketball with the both of them too.
Boston College really doesn't belong in the ACC. I get it opens up a new market to them, but from a travel perspective, especially for non-revenue sports, it's crazy. Always has been.
So, we take a Big East team (Pitt). The ACC makes the bold move and brings back South Carolina and adds Vanderbilt. This makes sense for South Carolina to step down slightly, and Vanderbilt to be in a conference with such private schools like Duke and Wake Forest.
The SEC then replaces those two with Clemson and Louisville. Natural fits, strong athletics, seems to make sense. The Big East needs to now replace two schools, not just one. With the ACC having added two and lost one, there is an extra school, and Boston College could go back or .... The ACC might lose the New England/Boston market but the Big East regains it for football and solidifies it for basketball. Then the goal is to grab UCF. While the Miami market might be nice, I think UCF makes sense for a natural rivalry with USF, and strengthens your hold in Florida.
I haven't focused too much on academic institution strength as I don't believe that is a huge consideration in the SEC, though maybe a bit more in the ACC.
Now, for the wild twist that no one sees coming. Instead of the SEC going after Louisville to replace a potential Vanderbilt or South Carolina defection, they go after the former SWC school that should have been in the Big 12 - TCU. That could be a huge shot at the Big 12, and it would not be the first time that the SEC has tempted a former SWC school to join them (though Arkansas made perfect sense). That move would them make the logical Boise State to the Mountain West Conference.
I figure if we open up the discussion, lets see what we can come up with.
December 15th, 2009 at 8:17 PM ^
ATLANTIC COAST Conference.
Do you konw how far Vandy is from the Atlantic Coast?
About as far as Michigan.